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  #1  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:07 PM
nightshadea nightshadea is offline
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So based on today.......

My neighbor was watching what went on today and wondered which side was going to pull an okc type of bombing on the other (or do it themselves against fed and blame the other side ) and possibly start a second civil war

I said I hope it didn't come to that but shes doubtful about how things are going ......

Is it possible that we wont have to worry about north korea since well by killing each other from the inside in the next 2-4 years ?
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:18 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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I don't think we're anywhere near anything more than a few nuts on the fringes commiting acts of violence. Ponder for a moment what it would take for you personally to take up arms against your neighbors. Speaking for myself, we're nowhere near that sort of dystopia.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 08-12-2017 at 10:19 PM..
  #3  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:29 PM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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I'm pretty close. If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can. Not in my city.
  #4  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:33 PM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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I hate Illinois Nazis...
  #5  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:36 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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I'm pretty close. If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can. Not in my city.
"as forcefully as I can" could mean lots of things to lots of people. Are you going to post up on a rooftop and fire into their rally? Run them over with your car? Or something more like paint your own sign and counter-protest?
  #6  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:37 PM
The Plutonium Kid The Plutonium Kid is offline
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I'm pretty close. If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can. Not in my city.
So when you say Nazi, do you mean card carrying members of the National Socialist White Peoples Party or the Traditionalist Workers Party? Or do you mean just anybody who voted for Trump?
  #7  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:49 PM
Stringbean Stringbean is offline
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I'm pretty close. If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can. Not in my city.
Nazism was borne of this mentality. Except it was "Patriots" fighting "Communists" in the streets of Berlin. Force is not the answer.
  #8  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:51 PM
wolfpup wolfpup is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I don't think we're anywhere near anything more than a few nuts on the fringes commiting acts of violence. Ponder for a moment what it would take for you personally to take up arms against your neighbors. Speaking for myself, we're nowhere near that sort of dystopia.
I agree. Things were worse at many times in the past; to put things in perspective, for instance, there were the riots of the 60s. In the Watts riots (1965), 30,000 fought police, leaving 34 people dead, 1000 injured, and 4000 arrested. The 60s saw a wave of high-profile assassinations; after that of Martin Luther King in 1968, 125 cities broke out in riots. This is (so far) small potatoes compared to that.

So far. The problem is that things are moving in the wrong direction, and that should be a concern. White supremacy and nativism is on the rise, emboldened by the antics of the current president who these factions so overtly support, who is also appallingly tolerant of it for obvious political reasons. In today's speech he completely failed to call out the white supremacists and stooped so low as to try to blame "many sides" for a problem that "has been with us a long time". Pretty much "nothing to see here, what's everybody so excited about?"
  #9  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:07 PM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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Nazism was borne of this mentality. Except it was "Patriots" fighting "Communists" in the streets of Berlin. Force is not the answer.
Bullshit.
  #10  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:17 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is offline
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Bullshit.
So you're actually advocating violence?
  #11  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:29 PM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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So you're actually advocating violence?
I'm advocating defense against racist aggressors.
  #12  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:34 PM
Roderick Femm Roderick Femm is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I'm advocating defense against racist aggressors.
Even if they are just peacefully marching?

That's the problem, isn't it. They're hateful people so it's ok to shoot them or kick them in the backside or use pepper spray on them? And when they say the same thing about you, what then? All you have is war.

It's tough to be one of the good guys. Not everyone has what it takes.
  #13  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:46 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is offline
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How are you going to "confront" them? With violence? Yes, or no?

Last edited by D'Anconia; 08-12-2017 at 11:49 PM..
  #14  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:47 PM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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Originally Posted by Roderick Femm View Post
Even if they are just peacefully marching?

That's the problem, isn't it. They're hateful people so it's ok to shoot them or kick them in the backside or use pepper spray on them? And when they say the same thing about you, what then? All you have is war.

It's tough to be one of the good guys. Not everyone has what it takes.
Running down and murdering people isn't peaceful. Americans got together 72 years ago to kill the nazis threatening our country. We can do it again.
  #15  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:49 PM
Johnny Ace Johnny Ace is offline
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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
I hate Illinois Nazis...
Somehow it was funnier when Henry Gibson went over the side...
  #16  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:49 PM
chappachula chappachula is offline
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Originally Posted by nightshadea View Post
killing each other from the inside in the next 2-4 years ?
I assume you are too young to remember the sixties?
Wash, lather, and repeat.




Society was completely falling apart.
Violent riots, not just on campuses but also at the Democratic Party's national convention--questioning the very basis of our constitutional democratic procedures,
Thousands of rioters, all over the country, proudly calling the police "pigs", refusing to recognize the legitimacy of our legal system.
etc,
etc,
etc.
  #17  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:50 PM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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And I sure as fuck won't back down from a war if backing down means allowing blacks, Jews, asians, hispanics, lgbtq, and all the other minorities that make up this country be attacked.

I'd rather die here in Chicago fighting that than in Iraq so Cheney can slide a few billion to his buddies at Halliburton.
  #18  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:52 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is offline
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And I sure as fuck won't back down from a war if backing down means allowing blacks, Jews, asians, hispanics, lgbtq, and all the other minorities that make up this country be attacked.

I'd rather die here in Chicago fighting that than in Iraq so Cheney can slide a few billion to his buddies at Halliburton.
So you are willing to use violence?
  #19  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:59 PM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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So you are willing to use violence?
To defend people? Of course. You ever see handwringing stop a bullet?
  #20  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:59 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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I don't think you'll get a straight answer out if him. He's too busy playing coy and acting like an internet tough guy.
  #21  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:01 AM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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I don't think you'll get a straight answer out if him. He's too busy playing coy and acting like an internet tough guy.
It's a blessing, really, to have so many keyboard warriors. It's an emotional safety valve for feelings that, if bottled up, can erupt in unhealthy (for society and the individuals) ways.
  #22  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:09 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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I'm giving you straight up answers. I will fight and die to defend people who are being attacked. You want meet up in real life say the word and I'll give you my name and address and phone number. My name is actually mike G, who's the tough guy hiding behind a fake user name?
  #23  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:17 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
So you are willing to use violence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
To defend people? Of course. You ever see handwringing stop a bullet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I don't think you'll get a straight answer out if him. He's too busy playing coy and acting like an internet tough guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
It's a blessing, really, to have so many keyboard warriors. It's an emotional safety valve for feelings that, if bottled up, can erupt in unhealthy (for society and the individuals) ways.
I will have to agree with MikeG here, he did give a straight answer. Even the conditional he gave there is hard to miss.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-13-2017 at 12:17 AM..
  #24  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:21 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
I will have to agree with MikeG here, he did give a straight answer. Even the conditional he gave there is hard to miss.
What about "If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can."? Aren't you the least bit curious what he plans to do when he 'sees a Nazi in Chicago', particularly one that's not attacking anyone?
  #25  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:27 AM
Richard Pearse Richard Pearse is offline
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Originally Posted by nightshadea View Post
My neighbor was watching what went on today and wondered which side was going to pull an okc type of bombing on the other (or do it themselves against fed and blame the other side ) and possibly start a second civil war

I said I hope it didn't come to that but shes doubtful about how things are going ......

Is it possible that we wont have to worry about north korea since well by killing each other from the inside in the next 2-4 years ?

I give up. What "went on today"?
  #26  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:28 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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I will confront them and tell them what I think of their despicable views. I do not attack people without provocation. You are thinking of the nazis. I wonder why your idea of what people would do in a given situation and their ideas are so congruent. You want me to condemn all violence? Not going to happen. Violence is an acceptable response to violence.

I think I'm being pretty fucking clear. It's obvious you have some agenda you are trying to advance. Why not stop hiding behind your fake name and keyboard and tell us what you really think.
  #27  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:31 AM
Richard Pearse Richard Pearse is offline
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I give up. What "went on today"?
Never mind. I've pieced it together from the other threads. A bit of context would have been nice though, we aren't all from the USA.
  #28  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:31 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
What about "If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can."? Aren't you the least bit curious what he plans to do when he 'sees a Nazi in Chicago', particularly one that's not attacking anyone?
What part of "forcefully as I can" is not clear to you? Perhaps English is not your first language. Tell me what is and I'll put up a translation.

Hint "as I can" means what I am allowed to do. Unprovoked violence is not allowed so obviously that is not part of my response.
  #29  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:36 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
What about "If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can."? Aren't you the least bit curious what he plans to do when he 'sees a Nazi in Chicago', particularly one that's not attacking anyone?
Based on his latest reply, he would indeed yell at them for being stupid, but not do any harm to them, provided that they are not attacking counter protesters.

Of course, the issue here is that indeed they did attack someone so your sorry attempt at getting some gotcha here is just sorry indeed.

We all should stop talking as if on this item "both sides are doing it".

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-13-2017 at 12:37 AM..
  #30  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:37 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What part of "forcefully as I can" is not clear to you? Perhaps English is not your first language. Tell me what is and I'll put up a translation.

Hint "as I can" means what I am allowed to do. Unprovoked violence is not allowed so obviously that is not part of my response.
I asked you this directly in post #5. Why didn't you supply this answer back then?
  #31  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:42 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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I did answer you directly as both myself and others have noted. You are being deliberately obtuse. To what end I shall not speculate for this is not the proper forum in which to give you the response you deserve. So "ditka" you wanna meet in Chicago and explain what you're trying to defend here? Although I'll wager a considerable sum you are hiding behind a fake name and are not in fact related to the noted Chicago coach.
  #32  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:44 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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We all should stop talking as if on this item "both sides are doing it".
WTF are you talking about? Both sides ARE doing it. What do you think the Scalise shooting was?
  #33  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:46 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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I did answer you directly as both myself and others have noted. You are being deliberately obtuse. To what end I shall not speculate for this is not the proper forum in which to give you the response you deserve. So "ditka" you wanna meet in Chicago and explain what you're trying to defend here? Although I'll wager a considerable sum you are hiding behind a fake name and are not in fact related to the noted Chicago coach.
I don't want to go anywhere near Chicago, ever. It's practically a life goal for me.
  #34  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:47 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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Didn't think so. Typical.
  #35  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:53 AM
octopus octopus is offline
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I'm pretty close. If I see any nazis in Chicago I will for damn sure confront them as forcefully as I can. Not in my city.
I wish people would take that stance for the gang violence plaguing that city.
  #36  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:57 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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WTF are you talking about? Both sides ARE doing it. What do you think the Scalise shooting was?


All sides did condemn that shooting, that had more to do with madness, not a movement. In any case, you are indeed doing it. This case does not, as far as I know, deserve to be twisted as a BSADI example because in this case they are the groups that should had been shunned a long time ago.
  #37  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:57 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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I wish people would take that stance for the gang violence plaguing that city.
I do. I've called the cops and stayed to make reports when I see stuff. Again, because some people have severe comprehension problems, I do not and will not initiate violence. I have however stepped in and stopped a person from being assaulted at my own personal risk.

Thankfully I live in a part of Chicago that is remarkably safe and free from violent crime.
  #38  
Old 08-13-2017, 01:00 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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I wish people would take that stance for the gang violence plaguing that city.
What makes you think that that is not the case?


I see that MikeG already did show how asinine was that point from octopus.
  #39  
Old 08-13-2017, 01:09 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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And more to the point, there are groups of people in those affected communities who are standing up to violence, trying to address the systemic problems that are at the root of the economic issues which have resulted in large groups of young men being forced into gangs. Every day people are risking their lives to make a better community but you won't hear about that because if it don't bleed it don't lead.
Plus it goes against the racists self comforting narrative.
  #40  
Old 08-13-2017, 01:11 AM
MikeG MikeG is offline
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It's one am I'm on vacation and I'm done with this. ive gotten muddy and the pigs enjoyed it.
  #41  
Old 08-13-2017, 01:11 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Just so we're clear, Mike, "Not in my city" really just means you're going to tell them what you think about them when you see them in your city? Ok then, that's great. I whole-heartedly support the peaceful exchange of ideas that our First Amendment protects. Your non-violent stance is admirable. Furthermore, I hope your confrontation successfully persuades them to abandon their assholish ways. And good luck with the gangs too.
  #42  
Old 08-13-2017, 03:07 AM
octopus octopus is offline
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What makes you think that that is not the case?


I see that MikeG already did show how asinine was that point from octopus.
Gang violence is actually a real problem in Chicago though. It's fair to want to know how one deals with real issues. MikeG acted admirably.
  #43  
Old 08-13-2017, 07:30 AM
etasyde etasyde is offline
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"as forcefully as I can" could mean lots of things to lots of people. Are you going to post up on a rooftop and fire into their rally? Run them over with your car? Or something more like paint your own sign and counter-protest?
Had I been protesting when that car plowed into the crowd and armed, if I had a clear shot at the driver I'd have taken it in a heartbeat. Should some republicans put their money where their mouth is and actually succeed, I would rebel to overthrow our new king. Both are unlikely - a "clear shot" would mean more likely to kill the driver than harm any standers by, and firing at a fast moving car doesn't often provide that opportunity and the Monarchists are far more bark than bite but... things aren't pretty.

What was inconceivable just a few years ago is more and more becoming reality.
  #44  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:08 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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I agree. Things were worse at many times in the past; to put things in perspective, for instance, there were the riots of the 60s. In the Watts riots (1965), 30,000 fought police, leaving 34 people dead, 1000 injured, and 4000 arrested. The 60s saw a wave of high-profile assassinations; after that of Martin Luther King in 1968, 125 cities broke out in riots. This is (so far) small potatoes compared to that.

So far. The problem is that things are moving in the wrong direction, and that should be a concern. White supremacy and nativism is on the rise, emboldened by the antics of the current president who these factions so overtly support, who is also appallingly tolerant of it for obvious political reasons. In today's speech he completely failed to call out the white supremacists and stooped so low as to try to blame "many sides" for a problem that "has been with us a long time". Pretty much "nothing to see here, what's everybody so excited about?"
The bold is what people ought to see here. I seriously doubt that this is the last of this type of violence that we see. I remember the 1990s well and the type of right wing anti-government, anti-left rhetoric was then quite similar to now. But back then those ideas were largely confined to fringe media and ignored by the mainstream press. What's better now than then is that it's impossible to ignore and people are rightly confronting it. On the other hand, what's worse now is that they enjoy a type of mainstream social and political legitimacy now that didn't exist back then. They have a president who won in part with the support of voters who believed that their country was being taken away from them. The people who are likely to sympathize with the driver of that car number in the millions not the tens of the thousands.
  #45  
Old 08-13-2017, 11:36 AM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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Moderating

ENOUGH!

There are so many posters talking past each other, inferring statements other posters have not actually made, and projecting unspoken views onto others for the purpose of scoring points and trying to slide under the "no insults" rule that this thread is not actually a debate. On the other hand, it has not yet developed into a BBQ Pit rant.

I am closing it.

If anyone wishes to open a new thread to discuss the issue without making every "question" an attempt to go personal and play "gotcha!" you are welcome to do so. However, if it stops being a discussion and falls back into Pit Light, again, it will not remain open in Great Debates.

There have been efforts to discuss the matter, but they are being overwhelmed by the posturing.

[ /Moderating ]

Last edited by tomndebb; 08-13-2017 at 11:38 AM..
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