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  #51  
Old 02-17-2019, 08:44 PM
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It's not cynicism to not think some nobody is going to come out of nowhere and be President, for fucksake.

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  #52  
Old 02-17-2019, 10:09 PM
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Every little helps...
Helps what? It certainly doesn’t help him get to be president.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:49 AM
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Raise his profile? Isn't that hard.
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  #54  
Old 02-18-2019, 06:49 AM
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Again, I'm not critiquing his policies. I'm just saying that he's not the one to implement them. If his ideas are good, then a real presidential candidate will adopt them.
Like it or not, the definition of 'real' has changed. Nobody doubts that Alexandria Ocasio Cortez or Bernie Sanders are 'real'. Donald Trump is 'real'.

He seems like a bright guy with a lot of important experience. The last thing we ought to be doing is ridiculing his candidacy or treating it like a joke.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:12 AM
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Helps what? It certainly doesn’t help him get to be president.
Helps get his ideas into the mainstream of the discussion, which is more important than whether he wins or loses at this point. His chances of winning are pretty slim, but if we can take the idea of universal income and universal healthcare more seriously, then it's a win, regardless of what happens to his candidacy.

He might not have a chance to win, but in the day and age of internet-driven media, he has an opportunity to become more of a household name. He may or may not end up getting the attention of Steven Colbert, but I think getting on the Joe Rogan podcast was actually a pretty good indication of his social media savvy.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:51 AM
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Is it always cynicism in this place?
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Like Kamala?
You were saying?
  #57  
Old 02-18-2019, 09:20 AM
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Alexandria Occasio-Cortez is a real Congressperson. She's not a real presidential candidate (though she's more likely to become one at some point in the future than Yang is).
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:10 AM
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Alexandria Occasio-Cortez is a real Congressperson. She's not a real presidential candidate (though she's more likely to become one at some point in the future than Yang is).
She may be a real congressperson but that's not a requirement to hold presidential office. You can argue that it's important to cut one's teeth in congress in order to gain better insight into how a president can be more effective, but that's never been a requirement for presidential office.

To reiterate, I don't think Yang is going to win, but he can have an important voice and impact and I don't see the value in denigrating his campaign. From what I can tell he's running a serious campaign based on a very progressive platform. Why mock it?
  #59  
Old 02-18-2019, 10:25 AM
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While armchair cynics are deriding his chances, Andrew Yang is putting in the miles and the meetings in Iowa, executing on his social media strategy and doing the other things required to mount a credible presidential campaign. There is a gulf of difference between “I don't take him seriously” and “He’s not a serious candidate”. Listen to the man and see if he doesn’t sound serious before you write him off. You may be pleasantly surprised at his rational, data-driven approach.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:28 AM
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While armchair cynics are deriding his chances, Andrew Yang is putting in the miles and the meetings in Iowa, executing on his social media strategy and doing the other things required to mount a credible presidential campaign. There is a gulf of difference between “I don't take him seriously” and “He’s not a serious candidate”. Listen to the man and see if he doesn’t sound serious before you write him off. You may be pleasantly surprised at his rational, data-driven approach.
It doesn't matter if he aces the interview; he just doesn't have the resume for the job.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:41 AM
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It doesn't matter if he aces the interview; he just doesn't have the resume for the job.
In your opinion. Others may draw a different conclusion based on the same information.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:59 AM
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In your opinion. Others may draw a different conclusion based on the same information.
Exactly. Trump has proven that you don't need any experience to be an awesome President.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:03 AM
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In your opinion. Others may draw a different conclusion based on the same information.
Yes, and my opinion is that the Presidency is not about policies but politics.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:15 AM
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And again, if he were a serious candidate, he'd be running for some other position before the Presidency.

He might be a serious spokesman, or a serious political theorist, or any number of other roles. Which still doesn't make him a serious candidate.
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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Exactly. Trump has proven that you don't need any experience to be an awesome President.
I think opinions may vary on that point as well, but you’re quite right there is a precedent for electing someone from outside the political establishment.

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Yes, and my opinion is that the Presidency is not about policies but politics.
Up till now, yes. Who’s to say that is how it must be going forward? The world is getting ready to change in profound ways. Surely we can imagine a future different from the politics-as-usual of the past. It may not be easy to get there, but there is definitely a path.


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And again, if he were a serious candidate, he'd be running for some other position before the Presidency.

He might be a serious spokesman, or a serious political theorist, or any number of other roles. Which still doesn't make him a serious candidate.
He meets the constitutional requirements to run. Nowhere does it stipulate you need to work your way up inside the system. In fact, he’s trying to upgrade the old system in a lot of ways that are long overdue. We shall see soon enough if he can muster enough support to carry the conversation into the primaries. I for one am hopeful he does.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:02 PM
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Exactly. Trump has proven that you don't need any experience to be an awesome President.
Yeah, because Andrew Yang, a guy who has a BA in economics and who earned a Juris Doctor in Law (You know, being knowledgeable of the law usually being fundamental in running for office) Is comparable to Trump

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You were saying?
Kamala Harris is an establishment candidate. Same with Corey Booker. Yang is immediately shot down despite being well qualified and having actual policy proposals.


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And again, if he were a serious candidate, he'd be running for some other position before the Presidency.

He might be a serious spokesman, or a serious political theorist, or any number of other roles. Which still doesn't make him a serious candidate.
There's no prerequisite for that, and there shouldn't be either.
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  #67  
Old 02-18-2019, 05:24 PM
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He is not shot down despite being well qualified. He is shot down for the precise reason that he is not qualified. And yes, I know that Trump isn't qualified, either. That doesn't help your argument.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:28 PM
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I agree he's not really trying to win.

As I said above I would take him over someone like Biden who has spent vast majority of his adult life sucking on the government tit with nothing to show for it.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:33 PM
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He is not shot down despite being well qualified. He is shot down for the precise reason that he is not qualified. And yes, I know that Trump isn't qualified, either. That doesn't help your argument.
That's a ridiculous premise.Your premise is that we shouldn't elect people despite being well qualified because they have no experience of running government institutions, sounds like gatekeeping to me, even if it's with the best of intentions.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:40 PM
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Voters decide who is qualified and who is not for any office. It doesn't make sense to say a guy is not qualified when the voters will determine that.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:48 PM
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No, my premise, to state it again, is that he is not well qualified. You can't have "despite being well qualified" without being well qualified.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:52 PM
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some guys start at level like city council, then state house, then US house , then US senate.

But some people start at a high level and skip those lower level jobs. Is there any level that's it's OK to start at in politics?

We had John Edwards here in NC who was a US senator without any other political job before that. And on the other end of the spectrum Jesse Helms went straight to US Senator too.
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:16 PM
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Voters decide who is qualified and who is not for any office. It doesn't make sense to say a guy is not qualified when the voters will determine that.

And this thread is literally full of voters who have determined that he is not qualified.
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:32 PM
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but people are not just saying he's not qualified they are saying he should not run which I think is bad because they don't think others should be able to judge his qualifications.

I know many people are consumed with hatred for Trump so that clouds things but people can come from outside politics and do well in political job at a high level such as Senator or governor without a lower level political job. (and of course they can do badly too at those levels)
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:37 PM
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And this thread is literally full of voters who have determined that he is not qualified.
Ah that settles it then, he cannot possibly run
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  #76  
Old 02-18-2019, 07:03 PM
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And this thread is literally full of voters who have determined that he is not qualified.
Speak for yourself, Gabbie. While I have not thrown entirely in with Yang's camp, I'm willing to listen to the man and hear him speak before blithely pronouncing a death sentence on his qualifications.

It's fair to say "Opinions are divided in this thread." "Full...."? No.
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  #77  
Old 02-18-2019, 08:00 PM
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Exactly. Trump has proven that you don't need any experience to be an awesome President.
Let's not pretend for a moment that Andrew Yang and Donald Trump are remotely the same.

Dwight Eisenhower never held public office outside being a military commander and was arguably an effective president.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:02 PM
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but people are not just saying he's not qualified they are saying he should not run which I think is bad because they don't think others should be able to judge his qualifications.

I know many people are consumed with hatred for Trump so that clouds things but people can come from outside politics and do well in political job at a high level such as Senator or governor without a lower level political job. (and of course they can do badly too at those levels)
Moreover, the so-called front-runners, except for Biden, are not particularly impressive. So someone's a senator for 5-8 years - so fucking what? How is that any more remarkable than being a serial entrepreneur?
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:04 PM
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No, my premise, to state it again, is that he is not well qualified. You can't have "despite being well qualified" without being well qualified.
Is Kamala Harris well qualified?

Is Gillibrand well qualified?

Klobuchar?

Warren?

At least Booker was mayor of Newark, I guess.

There's something to be said for developing and managing a campaign and coalitions, but what if Yang has a much better grasp of the issues facing us going forward than the mainstream candidates?

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Old 02-18-2019, 08:16 PM
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Yes, all of those people are better qualified than Yang.

Put it this way: What is it, in your view, that a President does? What experience does Yang have in doing those things?
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:34 PM
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Yes, all of those people are better qualified than Yang.

Put it this way: What is it, in your view, that a President does? What experience does Yang have in doing those things?
Put it this way: what can they do that Andrew Yang cannot? Has any of these aforementioned names ever been an executive at any level? Kamala Harris has been an attorney general but so what? Corey Booker has been a mayor of a major city at least, which is why he kinda, sorta is why I'm supporting him over the others. But in no way would I want to discourage a guy like Yang from running, particularly when he has at least shown an interest in solving national problems. He was recognized by the Obama administration as an entrepreneurial ambassador, for his efforts in using his start-up skills to develop businesses and jobs across the economy.

Yang is not some corrupt animal like Trump or some self-absorbed schmuck like Howard Schultz who, for chrissake, runs as an independent knowing full-well he can't win but can only disrupt the progressive forces coming from the left. Yang combines a deep, intimate understanding of the private sector with a belief that strength in the public sector can help ordinary people.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:18 AM
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Interesting thread, lots of passion on all sides. 2020 is going to be a wild ride!

One could argue that in order to be “qualified” to be president of the United States a person would need experience being chief executive and commander in chief of a global superpower, because no other political office comes close to the breadth and prominence of the presidency. Even the governors of the most populous states don’t negotiate as peers with foreign powers or command armies in the field. Oh, and they have to be an American-born citizen, too. That kinda narrows the list. I can think of exactly one “qualified” candidate: former President James Earl Carter, Jr., who has four years of eligibility remaining!

I get that a lot of the naysayers use “not qualified” to mean they doubt Andrew Yang's political savvy. That is a reasonable concern. However, as we saw with Trump, if a person with no political experience is elected, the professional politicians in his party will rally to him. Just because Trump has been maladroit in engaging with the Republican establishment doesn’t mean others couldn’t exploit their party machine effectively.

I absolutely believe Yang is in the race to win it. If you don’t think he’s qualified because he’s not a politician and you’ve read his platform and his book and have seen his interviews and don’t find him compelling, then I hope you throw your energy and passion behind the candidate of your choice. If you have come to a hasty conclusion of his qualifications based on a superficial glance at his candidacy, I would urge you to give the man a fair hearing.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:21 AM
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I'm liking how Yang explains what he's NOT for, as much as he explains what he's for. He explains that he's not for the guaranteed jobs program because it forces people to rely on a job they might hate. The guaranteed job is the job of last resort. If it's a horrible job, there's no other fallback. That's why he's supporting the Freedom Dividend instead of the guaranteed jobs program that other people are advocating.

While I'm also a Bernie Sanders fan, he gets really vague about UBI, based on these interviews that someone compiled on Medium.com. [On the Record: Bernie Sanders on Basic Income] I'd be interested to see the pros and cons of UBI vs $15/hr minimum wage and how realistic each would be and how it's predicted to help.

I also like Yang's explanation for why he is not advocating as much for free college tuition. He believes that people going to college will likely come out of college without a job. He thinks that it would be a better route to go to a trade school or apprenticeship for many people. Those types of schools have more jobs that won't become automated.

He wants to popularize his ideas in a Democratic debate. He needs 50.000 individual donations by May 15 to qualify He's gotten 7.000 in the first 5 days from the interview he just did. Hopefully, he'll be able to get the rest by the deadline. He notes in twitter that he was a national debater, so he feels confident that if he can get to the debate, he can advocate for his ideas effectively.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:07 AM
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I'm liking how Yang explains what he's NOT for, as much as he explains what he's for. He explains that he's not for the guaranteed jobs program because it forces people to rely on a job they might hate. The guaranteed job is the job of last resort. If it's a horrible job, there's no other fallback. That's why he's supporting the Freedom Dividend instead of the guaranteed jobs program that other people are advocating.

While I'm also a Bernie Sanders fan, he gets really vague about UBI, based on these interviews that someone compiled on Medium.com. [On the Record: Bernie Sanders on Basic Income] I'd be interested to see the pros and cons of UBI vs $15/hr minimum wage and how realistic each would be and how it's predicted to help.

I also like Yang's explanation for why he is not advocating as much for free college tuition. He believes that people going to college will likely come out of college without a job. He thinks that it would be a better route to go to a trade school or apprenticeship for many people. Those types of schools have more jobs that won't become automated.

He wants to popularize his ideas in a Democratic debate. He needs 50.000 individual donations by May 15 to qualify He's gotten 7.000 in the first 5 days from the interview he just did. Hopefully, he'll be able to get the rest by the deadline. He notes in twitter that he was a national debater, so he feels confident that if he can get to the debate, he can advocate for his ideas effectively.
I think what you've written above is why I am interested in seeing Yang go far, even knowing his chances are slim to none. I want someone in the democratic party who has some business 'street cred' so to speak, and who has a good sense for what will and will not work. What I see in the Democratic party now is hard liberalism on one side and status quo, paternalistic Republican Lite on the other. Democrats often talk of centrism - I think the real 'ism' ought to be innovation-ism. We need to rethink many of our assumptions about how our economy, society, and political system are going to function in a new age, particularly one that will be radically transformed by not only new technology but a new (worse) environment.

I think Yang makes a strong case against free college. Like him, I've seen no evidence that it would lead to better employment outcomes, and higher education itself is bloated with administration. It would take care of the problem of student debt, but that debt would be simply paid for by the taxpaying public. It seems like free college is a rather poor investment. On the other hand, perhaps partially subsidizing trade school programs or certain kinds of college programs might be a better way to go.

I also agree with Yang on the minimum wage. I'd rather simply pay people a dividend or whatever you want to call it instead of forcing businesses to pay a cost for the sake of human welfare. Businesses probably should pay corporate taxes that go to a national welfare scheme, which would include healthcare costs and a pension program. I'm for a basic wage floor so that workers aren't outright exploited, but using that wage floor to make the market pay a livable wage is probably just going to make it harder for small businesses to compete and it could even raise inflation in the longer term.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:23 AM
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Bernie Sanders is in for 2020 Was this his announcement?


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I think the real 'ism' ought to be innovation-ism. We need to rethink many of our assumptions about how our economy, society, and political system are going to function in a new age, particularly one that will be radically transformed by not only new technology but a new (worse) environment.
I just ran across this last night. I thought you might be interested. It's a website called Evonomics: The Next Evolution of Economics. There are articles from Andrew Yang as well as articles on how traditional economics is not working as intended in many respects.

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I also agree with Yang on the minimum wage. I'd rather simply pay people a dividend or whatever you want to call it instead of forcing businesses to pay a cost for the sake of human welfare. Businesses probably should pay corporate taxes that go to a national welfare scheme, which would include healthcare costs and a pension program. I'm for a basic wage floor so that workers aren't outright exploited, but using that wage floor to make the market pay a livable wage is probably just going to make it harder for small businesses to compete and it could even raise inflation in the longer term.
Some information from another thread on the $15/hr minimum wage.

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Yeah, there's a enormous quantity of literature showing that minimum wage increases haven't increased unemployment by any measurable amount. You'd have to do some pretty selective reading to miss it.

Here's Brad DeLong's summary, of which the most relevant bit is: "The majority of economists believe that raising the minimum wage from its current level would significantly boost the incomes of the working poor and have little adverse effect on employment. A large minority of economists believe that raising the minimum wage would actually increase employment...There's no debate on whether minimum wages at their current level are discouraging employment. They don't."
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Here's a paper studying the impact of increasing the minimum wage by more than 50% (from 8.25 to 13). Conclusion: "After the minimum wage hikes, incomes were boosted most for more than 330,000 total workers in low-paying occupations and industries...Overall, the higher minimum wage has been associated with an increase in worker incomes but little to no impact on employment or the number of private business establishments. "
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:31 AM
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He wants to popularize his ideas in a Democratic debate. He needs 50.000 individual donations by May 15 to qualify He's gotten 7.000 in the first 5 days from the interview he just did. Hopefully, he'll be able to get the rest by the deadline. He notes in twitter that he was a national debater, so he feels confident that if he can get to the debate, he can advocate for his ideas effectively.
Nitpick, to qualify for the Democratic primary debates in June and July he needs to:

Receive at least 1% in 3 polls either nationally or in early states (Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina) between January 1 and mid-May;

or

Receive 65,000 individual donations, including at least 200 from 20 different states.

He’s got 16,000 donations to date and 130,000 followers on social media.

All the above is from an email sent to his donors, FYI.

If he can get to the debate stage, debating skills not withstanding, his ideas will quickly galvanize people either for or against. I sincerely hope he gets a shot to make his case.
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:04 PM
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A Glance at US Politics from Asian American: Andrew Yang Presidential Candidate.

This is pretty good.
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  #88  
Old 02-19-2019, 05:37 PM
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Nitpick, to qualify for the Democratic primary debates in June and July he needs to:

Receive at least 1% in 3 polls either nationally or in early states (Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina) between January 1 and mid-May;

or

Receive 65,000 individual donations, including at least 200 from 20 different states.

He’s got 16,000 donations to date and 130,000 followers on social media.

All the above is from an email sent to his donors, FYI.

If he can get to the debate stage, debating skills not withstanding, his ideas will quickly galvanize people either for or against. I sincerely hope he gets a shot to make his case.

Closing in on 20K donors now...
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:28 PM
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Qualifications don't matter, nor do policy positions. The only thing that matters is elect-ability, as we saw from 2016. To many, Trump was un-electable, and to others, he was perfect for them. Remember, the winner in any election is who appeals to the most voters (who actually vote), not how qualified they are, as we saw from the large numbers of voters who, sadly, voted Trump.

Can Yang appeal to the majority of voters in this country? Will he be able to connect with the average American voter? Will the average American voter understand what he is talking about?
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:21 AM
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Agreed. Especially interesting is his distillation of the math needed. To win the presidency he needs to win Iowa. To win Iowa he only needs to convince 30-40,000 people to vote for him (because only about 150,000 vote in the primary). California holds its primary early this cycle and has a significant Asian population, which should give him a boost. To beat Trump he needs to carry the same states as Hillary and peel off 5-10% of Trump voters in swing states. His message of $1,000 per month for life will attract voters. This sounds doable.
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:44 PM
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Helps get his ideas into the mainstream of the discussion, which is more important than whether he wins or loses at this point. His chances of winning are pretty slim, but if we can take the idea of universal income and universal healthcare more seriously, then it's a win, regardless of what happens to his candidacy.

He might not have a chance to win, but in the day and age of internet-driven media, he has an opportunity to become more of a household name. He may or may not end up getting the attention of Steven Colbert, but I think getting on the Joe Rogan podcast was actually a pretty good indication of his social media savvy.
I agree. UBI is an idea that deserves closer consideration. Universal healthcare is now the default Democratic position, which I feel is almost entirely due to Bernie Sanders putting the issue in the forefront during his losing 2016 campaign.

I agree that he is unqualified by virtue of not having relevant experience, and if he actually wants to be President he should run for some lower office and work his way up. But if he only wants to get his ideas out, a Presidential campaign is a fine vehicle for that.
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:40 PM
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:23 AM
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Great TED talk. Rutger Bregman is the same fellow who just had a dust up with Tucker Carlson, that carbuncle on the face of US media. It’s worth a watch but not relevant here so I won’t link it. What is relevant is that Andrew Yang is now over 22K donors. Damn the “qualifications”, full speed ahead!
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:41 PM
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On Fox News,Yang states the Democratics have approached him for the debates in June and July
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Old 02-22-2019, 03:32 AM
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Excellent news! It’s also very heartening that the DNC will treat all candidates equally by holding the debates over two nights and filling each card via random draw. A fair chance is all anyone can ask for, and now he’s got it.

We need to embrace the economic revolution that’s coming and bend it to our will. Otherwise we will be ground beneath its wheels.
  #96  
Old 02-22-2019, 02:27 PM
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1.

For all those who think Andrew Yang needs lower-office political "experience" first -- the guy's smarter than you think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tuJ...ature=youtu.be

"Andrew Yang Speaks at Georgetown"

The question starts at ~27:46, but the part I'd like y'all to note is at ~28:44 when he observes that running for President is easier than running for local office.

But annnnyyway, enough idle sophistry -- we all know that when people want to do something, they just do it; coming up with excuses for why something can't or shouldn't be done or not done is really just a long way of saying that you disagree about something else.

2.

And for those who question Yang's "electability," I'd like to note this: I didn't think he was electable at first due to him being 1) Chinese and his 2) U.B.I. proposal which was gonna be just more red-bait.

But I became a true believer just five days ago (and have been researching this guy and U.B.I. since then [that's how I found out about this forum and this thread]) when I noticed that in the YouTube comments even Trump supporters and, especially, white supremacists were saying they were supporting him for President -- all because of U.B.I.!!

So if you disagree with U.B.I., just say so and we can have a real discussion. Thanks.
  #97  
Old 02-22-2019, 02:29 PM
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Since Trump has already done it, why do we care about Yang's experience or the lack of it? He's already more "qualified" than Trump was before Trump became POTUS.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:33 PM
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Excellent news! It’s also very heartening that the DNC will treat all candidates equally by holding the debates over two nights and filling each card via random draw. A fair chance is all anyone can ask for, and now he’s got it.

We need to embrace the economic revolution that’s coming and bend it to our will. Otherwise we will be ground beneath its wheels.
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  #99  
Old 02-22-2019, 02:34 PM
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Since Trump has already done it, why do we care about Yang's experience or the lack of it? He's already more "qualified" than Trump was before Trump became POTUS.
I know -- but people in this thread (as well as during his very short Fox News interview with Cavuto) keep bringing it up.
  #100  
Old 02-22-2019, 03:16 PM
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