The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > General Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:45 PM
Alpha Twit Alpha Twit is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Am I obligated to [i]cooperate[/i] with police serving a search warrant?

Note that I said "cooperate"with a warrant as opposed to stepping aside and letting them do jobs. For example, do I need to provide the combination to my wall safe or the password to my computer? Not giving the police the combination to my safe will only slow them down and potentially protect my property by not requiring them to call in a specialist to force the safe open, possibly destroying it in the process. Some forms of computer encryption can't realistically be cracked but that won't stop the police tech investigators from trying.

Is the act of refusing to disclose my computer password or my safe combination after being presented with a legal search warrant a criminal act in and of itself?
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:25 PM
dolphinboy dolphinboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bigfork, Montana
Posts: 2,243
Need answer fast?

IANAL, but as I understand it they have the right to search your car/house and restrain you so you don't interfere with their search. I don't believe you have any obligation to cooperate or help them with their search, however that may mean that they destroy your property to get to what they want to look at. By giving them the combo to the safe you speed up the process and save yourself from having to buy a new safe when they do whatever it takes to open it.
__________________
De gustibus non est disputandum

A good friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move a body.

Last edited by dolphinboy; 07-21-2012 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-22-2012, 12:13 AM
OldGuy OldGuy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Very east of Foggybog, WI
Posts: 2,083
Perhaps. Though I assume this will be appealed to the Supreme Court eventually. Not necessarily this case.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/fed...w-enforcement/

Last edited by OldGuy; 07-22-2012 at 12:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-22-2012, 12:19 AM
bobot bobot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 785
Pardon my speculative and possibly non-factual reply, but I imagine that if the police come into your house with a search warrant...you have the right to remain silent.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:26 AM
drachillix drachillix is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: 192.168.0.1
Posts: 8,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Twit View Post
Note that I said "cooperate"with a warrant as opposed to stepping aside and letting them do jobs. For example, do I need to provide the combination to my wall safe or the password to my computer? Not giving the police the combination to my safe will only slow them down and potentially protect my property by not requiring them to call in a specialist to force the safe open, possibly destroying it in the process. Some forms of computer encryption can't realistically be cracked but that won't stop the police tech investigators from trying.

Is the act of refusing to disclose my computer password or my safe combination after being presented with a legal search warrant a criminal act in and of itself?
Depends on the scope of the warrant too.

If they are looking for a rifle supposedly used in a shooting rampage, it is not reasonable to look for it in your hard drive. Granted cops are not stupid and will always try and request a warrant as broadly worded as possible to maximize possible hits.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-22-2012, 02:53 AM
jpl1019 jpl1019 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
IANAL but, the standard advice is usually:

1) Do not physically try to stop them (assuming they have the right address, etc)
2) Do not talk to them or answer any questions without a...
3) LAWYER. CALL ONE.

As bobot said, you have the right against self-incrimination. In a search warrant, they will be removing property to examine later for a potential criminal case against you. So it's not like they'll be sitting down at your computer and looking through your files there.

As for the wall safe, they'll call a locksmith in if they have to. I doubt most police agencies will break open a safe and take it with them. Opening the safe for them when they ask you to could get in the grey area of giving consent to search. If your lawyer wants to later contest that the police went beyond the scope of the warrant, it may be hard to find whatever was in the safe inadmissible if you opened the safe for them. The police will safe you did it voluntarily and they didn't ask, or that they found it open. Even though you may 'win' that argument eventually, it's not worth the hassle of picking that fight in court.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-22-2012, 06:21 AM
s0meguy s0meguy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
You have a right not to self-incriminate yourself, which means you don't have to give encryption keys and safe combinations. I think.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:58 AM
lawbuff lawbuff is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Twit View Post
Is the act of refusing to disclose my computer password or my safe combination after being presented with a legal search warrant a criminal act in and of itself?
No. If you are ordered to later, as the one link suggests, failure to may constitute Contempt of Court (?), but "on scene" you have no such duty.

IF they intend to frisk you for weapons, you need to "co-operate", yes, as being in your home is not a constitutional reason to forbid it. The only thing is, just because a person is on the "compact premises" when a Search Warrant is served, it is not an automatic right to search everyone, the police still must comply with Terry v. Ohio as far as suspicion to be armed is concerned.

Another thing, the SC has ruled, and I don't have the case in my head, if excess damage occurs during a search, it has violated your rights.

They just can not come in and destroy the premises and claim qualified immunity.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:28 AM
Kenm Kenm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by drachillix View Post
Granted cops are not stupid
Some are colossal dimwits, like the Calgary cops who confiscated a 7-Eleven's entire rack of Condo magazines during a protect-the-children righteousness push by the provincial government.

Semi-literate bozos licensed to kill.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:02 AM
jtur88 jtur88 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
It is not a valid Miranda if they say (or imply) "You have a right to remain silent, but we will damage your personal property if you exercise that right." You can then disclose information that you have a Miranda right to not disclose (e.g., tell them the password), and later win your case by demonstrating that the disclosure was under duress. If that disclosure leads to evidence, that evidence would then be inadmissible.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-22-2012 at 11:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-22-2012, 05:29 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: the Keystone State
Posts: 10,251
Don't forget that the police can also get warrents to collect things like fingerprints & DNA samples, or require subjects to undergo very intimate searchs and/or medical exams, by force if needed.
__________________
No Gods, No Masters
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:50 PM
grude grude is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
Don't forget that the police can also get warrents to collect things like fingerprints & DNA samples, or require subjects to undergo very intimate searchs and/or medical exams, by force if needed.
What exactly are you saying here?

It sounds like co-operate fully and waive your right not to consent to a search because cops can rape you by proxy with a doctor.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:35 PM
md2000 md2000 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGuy View Post
Perhaps. Though I assume this will be appealed to the Supreme Court eventually. Not necessarily this case.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/fed...w-enforcement/
This case was dropped when the husband provided her passwords. Still no definitive solution.

This guy was ordered by an appeals court to produce a decrypted version of his drive by an appeals court, but only because the border agents had already seen it once.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Boucher

Providing information in hope that it will be thrown out later is a bit of a leap of faith. Never do anything to incriminate yourself that you can't undo where the law is concerned.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.