Straight Dope Message Board

[Ancient Erudite]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

It's because he never sought to hide his past, and admitted and recognized how terrible it was, and apologized for it, committing himself to opposing racism as a Senator.

However, the existence of a dead, reformed racist Democrat does not excuse the continued support of Republicans for many living unreformed and unapologetic racists, including the current occupant of the WH, who spent years spreading a racist, evidence free conspiracy theory, who has praised white supremacists, and who has said many racist things himself.

So you are saying any racists who follow Bryd's ( former KKK Man ) lead whether its a genuine change of heart or not can do the same?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to that line of thought. I see a double standard. If Byrd was a Republican, he would have been forced out. 101

[Jonathan Chance]

That is, of course, ridiculous. Byrd functioned in other times and attempting some sort of gotcha bit derides both sides of the discussion. It shows a lack of effort and seriousness.

Now, onto something real. I heard about this on the radio yesterday and at first:

1. Huh. There's some sort of problem with his yearbook. Survivable.

2. Uh oh. It's in a picture he's in. Blackface. Dang. Maybe some sort of idiot frat thing he was near. Not good, but OK.

3. He says he's IN the picture. OK, that's a...weird...disclaimer. But how bad could it be.

4. See pic. Well, he's either the guy in blackface or he's in the klan outfit. Damn. That's it for him, then. At least that accounts for the weird 'in the picture' thing. 102

[HMS Irruncible]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

Since I'm not a member of either major political party, I'm not obligated to take a partisan stance. I don't care what was in Brett Kavanaugh's high school yearbook. I don't care what was in Ralph Northam's med school yearbook. Why should I care?

Not caring about past racist or sexist behavior is implicitly a partisan stance because it is the same stance as the Republican party. Perhaps you're not a card-carrying member, but if you support what they support and attack what they attack, then that's really a distinction without a difference. Nobody buys it. 103

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite

So you are saying any racists who follow Bryd's ( former KKK Man ) lead whether its a genuine change of heart or not can do the same?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to that line of thought. I see a double standard. If Byrd was a Republican, he would have been forced out.

The Republicans haven't forced out their current unapologetic racists. It's a joke to suggest that they'd force out a reformed racist who apologized.

You're not living in reality. Trump's world is not reality. 104

[Fiddle Peghead]

Nm. 105

[Jonathan Chance]

As a matter of fact, I'm going to call the Byrd stuff out as a hijack.

It's worthy of its own thread, mind you. But in this one it's a distraction.

No more of it, please. 106

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by hajario

What was fascinating was all of the comments from Republicans at first who were eagerly waiting for “spin” from tbe Democrats. Instead, without exception, they all called for him to resign.

Hell, some of them didn't even bother to wait.

Erick Erickson called out the left as a bunch of hypocrites for their silence about Northam at 5:34pm EST yesterday, when the story was still breaking, and nobody had really had time to comment in the minutes since it had been verified that this wasn't a Photoshop job by a right-wing 'news' site.

A little over-eager there, Erick?

Then he had to take a whole 'nother line on everything once essentially the entire Democratic world said Northam had to go. Why anyone takes this dipshit seriously is beyond me. 107

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

The "Coonman" nickname was in his VMI undergrad yearbook; the blackface/KKK pic was in his med school yearbook.

'Coon' was of course another derogatory term for an African-American person, like 'n****r.'

So maybe this wasn't the first time he dressed up in blackface? It would seem to be quite a coincidence if he got such a nickname some other way, and the yearbooks would suggest that he was rather proud of both the costume and the nickname. 108

[RTFirefly]

A couple of things from Twitter, because they said it better than me. (And why rephrase someone's 280-character tweet?)

1)

Republicans: "See?! This is clearly racist. Ralph Northam should resign."

Democrats: "I mean, yeah, we totally agree. He should resign."

Republicans: "You're such hypo--oh... uh, well, okay."

Democrats: "So, what about Trump?"

Republicans: .............................

Or what about Rep. Steve King, or Rep. Steve 'I'm David Duke without the baggage' Scalise.

2)

Republicans actively support leaders who sexually assault, are racist, xenophobic. No one really expects them to care, and they don't. Democrats force out popular and effective leaders who sexually assault, are racist, xenophobic. Everyone expects them to care, and they do.

109

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by Riemann

So maybe this wasn't the first time he dressed up in blackface? It would seem to be quite a coincidence if he got such a nickname some other way, and the yearbooks would suggest that he was rather proud of both the costume and the nickname.

That would be my WAG, certainly.

Less than a half-hour until his presser. I've got to run errands, so I guess I'll hear about it when I get back. 110

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

A couple of things from Twitter...

They Republicans are slow off the mark. I'm surprised nobody has come up with the unfalsifiable:
"If the Lt-Gov was a Republican, you wouldn't force him to resign, so you are hypothetical hypocrites". 111

[RitterSport]

Originally Posted by Riemann

They Republicans are slow off the mark. I'm surprised nobody has come up with the unfalsifiable:
"If the Lt-Gov was a Republican, you wouldn't force him to resign, so you are hypothetical hypocrites".

See post 93 of this very thread, from the guy who says that a Republican racist would have been drummed out of office. Hilarious!

I'm not from Virginia and I'm a little tired of the Democrats having to keep a pristine house while racists, harassers, and philanderers in the Republican party continue on in their merry way, but ultimately I like that the Dems have a much cleaner house. So, I vote resign. 112

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by RitterSport

See post 93 of this very thread...

Ah, right, I must have failed to read that post carefully for some reason I can't imagine. 113

[Thudlow Boink]

A question (not trying to make any point, just wondering):

What if he had done the same thing, but there wasn't a photo of it? What if one of his classmates had come forward and said "I remember that time he dressed up in blackface, and went to a party with that other guy dressed in a KKK outfit," and plenty of other people corroborated it? Same facts, but perhaps different emotional reaction without the visual. Would there be the same level of outrage? 114

[Dacien]

Originally Posted by galen ubal

*laughing at myself*

After all that work, I had the bright idea to go to CNN's actual YouTube site, and there it is, at about 40 seconds in.
Mea culpa, octopus, you were right.

Northam should still resign.

These days, you're 100% justified in being skeptical in everything. 115

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink

What if he had done the same thing, but there wasn't a photo of it?

I suppose then he might have claimed that he and a buddy stupidly improvised a costume one time while drunk, and he totally regretted it the next morning.

The peripheral circumstances in the actual case are much more serious indictments of his judgment and principles - and it's not just the visual impact per se. It's the fact that a lot of careful (sober) thought and design clearly went into these costumes; and in deliberately placing the photo in the public record in his yearbook he wasn't even neutral about it, he was proud of it - after presumably having some considerable time to consider the matter. As a 25-year-old. 116

[Dacien]

NYT Political Correspondent is reporting that Northam is now claiming to Dem leadership that it is not, in fact, him in the racist photo.

Which is quite odd, because he already apologized for it. 117

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by Dacien

These days, you're 100% justified in being skeptical in everything.

Cite? 118

[Dacien]

Originally Posted by Riemann

Cite?

I see what you did there. 119

[Thudlow Boink]

Originally Posted by Riemann

I suppose then he might have claimed that he and a buddy stupidly improvised a costume one time while drunk, and he totally regretted it the next morning.

The peripheral circumstances in the actual case are much more serious indictments of his judgment and principles - and it's not just the visual impact per se. It's the fact that a lot of careful (sober) thought and design clearly went into these costumes; and in deliberately placing the photo in the public record in his yearbook he wasn't even neutral about it, he was proud of it - after presumably having some considerable time to consider the matter. As a 25-year-old.

These are good points. Although, do we know that it was he who chose to include the photo in the yearbook? 120

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by jayjay

My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh..."

He should probably resign, and I say this as a hyperpartisan Democrat.

I say he doesn't resign. No use shooting yourself in the foot with your opponents gun. I'm not feeling charitable these days.

It might be politically wise to resign, but I think trolling the GOP's two facedness will make me feel better than punishing this person right about now. 121

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink

These are good points. Although, do we know that it was he who chose to include the photo in the yearbook?

I mean, if you want to propose the most generous narrative one could possibly imagine, let's really go for it...

He got the nickname "coonman" years before from a knife fight with a family of raccoons. Years later, because of the hilarious double meaning of the nickname, naughty college buddies prepared an extremely elaborate joke costume with blackface, got him completely drunk and convinced him to wear it, posed next to KKK guy, then took a photo. You can't tell that he's so drunk that he doesn't know what he's doing because, you know, blackface - and the invisible broom propping him up. And the college yearbook has a tradition that your buddies can contribute the most embarrassing photo of you they can find and you have no veto. 122

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Chronos

I will admit to being somewhat curious as to why this is only surfacing now, and not back during the campaign. It's not like yearbooks are deeply-buried secrets, and there are actual professionals in political campaigns paid to do opposition research.

But regardless of the reason, it's irrelevant. It has somehow turned up now, and it is disqualifying.

I don’t think it occurred to most people that there would be a student produced Medical School yearbook. Are those common? I’m sure that they looked at his High School ones. But someone knew about it and dropped it right after his first big controversy. 123

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

I say he doesn't resign. No use shooting yourself in the foot with your opponents gun. I'm not feeling charitable these days.

It might be politically wise to resign, but I think trolling the GOP's two facedness will make me feel better than punishing this person right about now.

You don't show that you respect and value your coalition partners by ignoring their concerns so you can schadenfreude more. The Democratic party is a coalition party that's made up, in large part (not majority, but very large part), by African-Americans, and this is a slap in the face to them, generally. It's not a good look at all to be saying "We should ignore this because it was something that happened decades ago." 124

[Magiver]

Originally Posted by Procrustus

As I said, I'd keep an open mind. Are there really people who were that clueless as young adults who have now seen the light? I'm trying to imagine what he could say to convince me he realizes how awful that was and how he's changed.

He could say "some of my best Lt Governors are African American".

It's hard to chalk this up to youthful indiscretion. This was the reasoning skills of an adult in medical school in 1984. This is how he wanted to be remembered. Unless it was from a stage play on the evils of racism I can't imagine how he can explain this.

He didn't just shoot himself in the foot politically he cast a shadow over his medical career. 125

[BobLibDem]

We all know how this will end. He will resign, no later than Feb 3. If he was a Republican, this would be quickly forgotten. But Democrats are, and should be, held to a higher standard- as Al Franken can attest. 126

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by Magiver

He could say "some of my best Lt Governors are African American".

ISWYDT, but I'll still note that Fairfax isn't his Lt Gov: in Virginia, each of the three statewide officials (Gov, Lt Gov, AG) run separately and are voted on separately. A VA gubernatorial candidate doesn't pick a Lt Gov candidate as his/her running mate.


ETA: now they're saying the presser will be at 2:30pm. 127

[hajario]

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

We all know how this will end. He will resign, no later than Feb 3. If he was a Republican, this would be quickly forgotten. But Democrats are, and should be, held to a higher standard- as Al Franken can attest.

He made an announcement a couple of hours ago and said that he has no intention of resigning. He also said that it wasn’t actually him in the picture which is irrelevant in my opinion. It’s arguably worse.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-blackface-kkk 128

[Fretful Porpentine]

Originally Posted by hajario

He made an announcement a couple of hours ago and said that he has no intention of resigning. He also said that it wasn’t actually him in the picture which is irrelevant in my opinion. It’s arguably worse.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...-blackface-kkk

Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him? I was originally in the "having worn an outrageously offensive costume at a party 35 years ago isn't necessarily so damning that he should resign" camp, but the way he's handling this has been so bizarre and weasely that it seems to say a lot about his character today. 129

[Dacien]

Northam considering facial-recognition software to exonerate him, according to NYT source. This is all very bizarre. 130

[iiandyiiii]

I suspect he's scrambling and desperate and maybe a bit in denial, and that he'll accept the need to resign in the next day or two. 131

[Riemann]

As a matter of interest, valid reasons for recall in the Virginia statute:

...Neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties when that neglect of duty, misuse of office, or incompetence in the performance of duties has a material adverse effect upon the conduct of the office...

And the petition must exceed 10% of votes cast when he was elected.

https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governi...ll_in_Virginia
https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_...all_provisions

If he flatly refuses to resign, I can't see how he could be recalled based on that statute. 132

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

I'm perfectly willing to hear him out--it's not like a nuclear bomb is gonna explode if he doesn't resign by Monday--but unless his explanation is both remarkable and convincing, he needs to go.

(Remarkable + convincing could be something like, "I had a black girlfriend in college, which led to a bunch of racist fuckers calling me "Coonman" and putting that in the yearbook without my permission. One of those same racist fuckers went to medical school with me and put this picture on my yearbook page to continue his harassment of me. I did my best to ignore him, thinking that you don't feed the trolls, but now I regret that. The name of this guy is Bob Smith, and here are the school records that prove my account, and here's another member of the yearbook staff who remembers his odious pranks and will testify under oath about them."

I don't expect a remarkable + convincing account.) 133

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness

I'm perfectly willing to hear him out--it's not like a nuclear bomb is gonna explode if he doesn't resign by Monday--but unless his explanation is both remarkable and convincing, he needs to go.

(Remarkable + convincing could be something like, "I had a black girlfriend in college, which led to a bunch of racist fuckers calling me "Coonman" and putting that in the yearbook without my permission. One of those same racist fuckers went to medical school with me and put this picture on my yearbook page to continue his harassment of me. I did my best to ignore him, thinking that you don't feed the trolls, but now I regret that. The name of this guy is Bob Smith, and here are the school records that prove my account, and here's another member of the yearbook staff who remembers his odious pranks and will testify under oath about them."

I don't expect a remarkable + convincing account.)

If it were something like that, then I think it would have stuck in his psyche even after all these years, and that would have been his first response. 134

[Dacien]

There's always room for some levity, and Charles C. W. Cooke provides it:

"Given how his week is going, there has to be some chance that Northam was the guy who attacked Smollett." 135

[k9bfriender]

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink

This was 35 years ago when he was young and in school. I'm not sure it tells us much about the man he is today (but the way he responds to it will)—and that's what I think should determine whether or not he should resign.

Not that young, and certainly old enough to know better. I would not hold it against him if I found out he was my doctor, or my neighbor, or my client. But, we do need to hold the people who not only set policy, but also act as role models to a higher standard. There are plenty of people in this world who want power, we can afford to be a bit picky as to who we give those reins to.

Originally Posted by Dacien

This whole thing is just ghoulish the more I think about it. With future elected officials having grown up saturated in social media, we're in for a heck of ride.

Not that much. That we have more information to make informed decisions about who we choose to represent us is not a bad thing. The only ones who would think it is a bad thing are those with something to hide.

Originally Posted by Dacien

If you were to judge me even by who was just ten years ago, you'd be looking at a completely different person. I'm embarrassed, regretful, and ashamed of some of the mistakes I've made just ten years ago! If I was fighting for what I believed in today with a new outlook, in a more mature and well-adjusted place, and somebody brought up some awful thing I did in my twenties, I'd feel deeply wronged. That's not who I am today, that's not what I stand for, and I distance myself from those mistakes completely, and have moved forward from them.

This is called being human. And our elected officials are no different.

Yes, that would be a good description of the lack of accountability that is rather rampant int he Republican party these days. "Well yeah, what I did was awful, but you should feel ashamed of yourself for bringing it up."

If you know you did awful things in your 20's, apologize for them now and start your repentance for your sins. Getting upset that someone brings up something that you did, and only offering a grudging non-apology if that for "anyone who may have been offended", is too little too late.

Since you know these awful things you did, should you ever run for office, I would suggest getting out in front, and laying them out before you get too far in your campaign. Your voters may reward your honesty, and find your repentance to be sincere, or they may find your actions too egregious to accept. Either way, they are making an informed decision as to whether or not you are what they want to lead them.

If you hide it, and they only find out after, then they will be less forgiving.

Originally Posted by octopus

If politicians have to recollect every affair, every off color joke or comment, every poor choice in robes and pointy hats we might be in for a long series of confessionals. Imagine if everyone’s internet search history was public knowledge.

I can remember every single time in my life that I have dressed up in blackface or klan robes, can you?

Originally Posted by ITR champion

Recall that a few weeks ago, the Academy Awards chose Kevin Hart to host the Oscars this year. And shortly thereafter, he was dropped from the job due to some bad jokes on Twitter about homosexuality. And since then, they haven't been able to find anyone to take his place.

If a certain job means having every stupid or offensive thing a person has ever posted online or made public anywhere else will be dragged out in public at great length, and then used to wreck one's career, the number of people willing to do that job may suddenly drop. To zero, in some cases.

Depends on the perks of the job. If getting a MW job at McDonalds required that sort of background check, then no one would want to flip burgers.

If the Democrats decide that every poorly chosen, decades-old joke by one of their politicians should be a career ender, they might likewise find that the number of people wanting to run for office as Democrats will decrease.

There is no shortage of people who desire power. Winnowing that field down to those who have not dressed up in blackface with a KKK member shouldn't prevent us from finding qualified candidates.

Originally Posted by boytyperanma

It probably was, when I saw the headline "Calls for resignation as VA governor apologizes for racist year book photo" I assumed he was a Republican. Republicans usually have all the 'best' racists.

We'll see if CNN makes an on air correction or if they go the FOX News route and mention it on a web page somewhere or in some cases never make a correction at all.

Yeah, when I first saw the healding, I thought, "Gee, 'nother racist Republican... wait, I thought they elected a democrat as governor. Yeah, well, fuck. He's gotta go."

I don't care if it was over 30 years ago. That means he's had over 30 years to apologize. Instead he 'forgot' about it or actively buried it. He's only chosen to apologize after he was caught. He needs to go.

He had to have known that that existed, and hoping that something like that just doesn't come out shows poor judgement as well.

Originally Posted by nearwildheaven

I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.

As an adult, they are probably given pretty free authority over the content, but still... someone should have thought that was a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite

If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.

What do you think would be different? Democrats would be calling for a republican to step down as well.

The photo is a hideous disgrace. He should step down immediately.

Hey, fascinating, we agree on something.

Originally Posted by Riemann

I mean, if you want to propose the most generous narrative one could possibly imagine, let's really go for it...

He got the nickname "coonman" years before from a knife fight with a family of raccoons. Years later, because of the hilarious double meaning of the nickname, naughty college buddies prepared an extremely elaborate joke costume with blackface, got him completely drunk and convinced him to wear it, posed next to KKK guy, then took a photo. You can't tell that he's so drunk that he doesn't know what he's doing because, you know, blackface - and the invisible broom propping him up. And the college yearbook has a tradition that your buddies can contribute the most embarrassing photo of you they can find and you have no veto.

I was thinking more or less along the same lines for the extenuating circumstances that would make this less horrific.

And even still, you should come out ahead of it. When you first think about going into politics, you say, "So, I have an embarrassing* story of when I was in medical school..."



*embarrassing may not be the right word, but it would be up to a politician to come up with the right words. 136

[Thudlow Boink]

Originally Posted by k9bfriender

There is no shortage of people who desire power.

That's not the relevant number. Sometimes it seems that there is indeed a shortage of people who desire power and can be trusted with it. 137

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by Dacien

There's always room for some levity, and Charles C. W. Cooke provides it:

"Given how his week is going, there has to be some chance that Northam was the guy who attacked Smollett."

Or if Northam's the guy on the left, maybe the same people attacked him on the way home from a party, and he can corroborate Smollett's story. 138

[Try2B Comprehensive]

Not responding to anyone in particular here, but I am not too afraid that politicians' pasts are going to be sifted through going forward. Some people will have pics from the theater club, or maybe golf or volleyball, or here they are at a party with a beer (and they're only 20!!1!1), maybe doing something a little silly like W Bush's cheerleader pic. That might have been a little embarrassing.

But then there is Governor Klan. Or coonman, one of those. Every time he says something, this pic is going to come up again. There's dorky stuff like W's cheerleader stuff, and then there is fondling an unconscious woman in military garb, and then there is dressing up like the fucking Klan- or one of their stereotypes. OMG. That scene at the end of Pink Flamingos in which Devine appears to eat fresh dog poop? Gives me the willies just to remember it, but at least that was in context with the rest of the movie.

Chess club past? Debate club maybe? Young Republicans? Churchy breeders association? Business leaders of tomorrow, or Boy Scouts, or maybe Habitat for Humanity? Track team? Guitar nerd? 90s slacker stoner? Goth girl? Angry poet? Used to be fat? Really awkward tan suit? The time before you had cosmetic surgery?

No, the fucking Klan. 139

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by Dacien

Northam considering facial-recognition software to exonerate him, according to NYT source. This is all very bizarre.

Not sure that'll help him prove that he's not the guy wearing the Klan hood. 140

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

Not sure that'll help him prove that he's not the guy wearing the Klan hood.

Not even "enhance"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhF_56SxrGk 141

[Littleman]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

The "Coonman" nickname was in his VMI undergrad yearbook; the blackface/KKK pic was in his med school yearbook.

'Coon' was of course another derogatory term for an African-American person, like 'n****r.'

In fact the character that the person in the photo is dressed as was known as " the dandified coon". In real blackface genre.


Why do people want to know which is him?
Which would be better or worse? 142

[RitterSport]

Originally Posted by Magiver

He could say "some of my best Lt Governors are African American".

It's hard to chalk this up to youthful indiscretion. This was the reasoning skills of an adult in medical school in 1984. This is how he wanted to be remembered. Unless it was from a stage play on the evils of racism I can't imagine how he can explain this.

He didn't just shoot himself in the foot politically he cast a shadow over his medical career.

...and that's why I think Trump and Steve King, at least, should resign.

--Not Magiver 143

[RitterSport]

Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite

One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator. Perhaps because the governor at times in West Virginia was a Republican and could pick his replacement?

If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.

The photo is a hideous disgrace. He should step down immediately.

...and that's why I think Donald Trump and Steve King, at least, should resign.

--Not Ancient Erudite 144

[k9bfriender]

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink

That's not the relevant number. Sometimes it seems that there is indeed a shortage of people who desire power and can be trusted with it.

Right, and it is up to the public to determine if they can be trusted. The public should make an informed decision. Having this out there informs the public. 145

[you with the face]

Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine

Say what, now? If it wasn't him, what earthly explanation can he offer for saying yesterday that it WAS him?

Maybe his fixer is telling him to play this like Trump would. 146

[Velocity]

The 1985 Northam and 2019 Northam are two different versions of the same person (presumably.) It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions; it's the 2019 version.


What someone has done in the past shouldn't matter so much as who they are today. 147

[hajario]

Originally Posted by Velocity

The 1985 Northam and 2019 Northam are two different versions of the same person (presumably.) It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions; it's the 2019 version.


What someone has done in the past shouldn't matter so much as who they are today.

1985 Medical School Student in his mid-20s Northam. 148

[Jonathan Chance]

That is right at the fucking edge, Rittersport.

EVERYONE LISTEN UP.

This thread is on best behavior status. Any shot at another poster - any at all - will lead to sanction. And I'm not talking mod notes, here.

I hope that's clear. 149

[kenobi 65]

Originally Posted by Velocity

It's not the 1985 high schooler Northam that is going to be making legislative, gubernatorial and political decisions

As has been noted already several times in this thread, in 1985, Northam was not a high schooler. He was 24 or 25 years old, and he was a college graduate, and in medical school. 150