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  #401  
Old 09-09-2019, 12:27 AM
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That's not a good reason, but there are many others.
Why is it not a good reason? Biden is always committing gaffes. (So is Trump, but that is because Trump is Trump, and was roughly the same man 20 years ago.)
  #402  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:46 AM
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If we're arguing the correlation between age and mental capacity is so strong that we shouldnt elect a president over the age of 65, then we must also stop allowing a person over the age of 65 from voting.
It's not only a matter of mental capacity when given time to think things over; which some people don't have much of at any age, and many though not all people retain through old age. It's also a matter of endurance/stamina and of quickness of reaction.

The Presidency, if done at all properly, is very much a full time job, requiring not only responses well thought out over a period of time, but large numbers of such within any given week on a very wide variety of subjects, and also the ability to respond quickly and properly at any moment to a previously unexpected problem, no matter what was occupying the mind just before that moment or even if one was just woken from deep sleep.

There are lots of people over 65, or over 75 or 85 for that matter, who are entirely capable of considering, over a period of months, who they want to vote for in a particular election, or even in a particular couple dozen of elections; and of filling out their ballots when they're reasonably rested and not unreasonably rushed. Not all of them are capable of juggling a dozen major decisions at the same time, and doing so day after day after day for four years, sometimes while exhausted or half asleep. Not everybody's capable of this at 35, either; but the ability in many people diminishes with age. Very few people have the same total energy available to draw on at 80 as they did when they were 40; or the same recovery time from unusual demands on it.

The extent to which this ability diminishes varies widely from person to person; I don't support a flat out cutoff age for that reason. But it's entirely reasonable to consider the evidence that a particular candidate is dropping off in ability; and it's entirely possible for someone to still be easily capable of voting properly, but no longer capable of being POTUS properly -- just as it's entirely possible for somebody to still be able to mow a quarter acre of lawn, but no longer be up to running marathons.
  #403  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by thorny locust View Post

... The Presidency, if done at all properly, is very much a full time job, requiring not only responses well thought out over a period of time, but large numbers of such within any given week on a very wide variety of subjects, and also the ability to respond quickly and properly at any moment to a previously unexpected problem, no matter what was occupying the mind just before that moment or even if one was just woken from deep sleep. ...
I'm not so sure that this is true.

The best executives are not making huge numbers of decisions quickly and personally handling every unexpected problem. Their talent is in developing excellent teams working under them and managing them well. Included in that is developing the big picture goals and in defining the broad set of tactics to be used by that team that delivers those outcomes. In the case of a president the other key skill is in being able to the effective communicator to the public on a variety of subjects.

An executive who micromanages and is having to constantly make decisions is bad at the job.

Age per se does not impact those skills. I don't think Bernie possesses any of them but not because of his age.
  #404  
Old 09-09-2019, 01:05 PM
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Why is it not a good reason? Biden is always committing gaffes. (So is Trump, but that is because Trump is Trump, and was roughly the same man 20 years ago.)
Same with Biden, Joe has been known (and even loved0 for his Gaffes for decades.

Age is just a bigoted reason.

Argue about their qualifications and their positions, leave the bigotry out of it.
  #405  
Old 09-09-2019, 04:09 PM
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An old 1997 book by Bernie Sanders is causing a lot of outrage on twitter due to the use of the n-word. A revised edition in 2015 which included an audiobook kept it in (and if you listen to it the narrator says the word boldly). Sanders supporters and spokeswoman are arguing that the intent was not discriminatory but trying to apply historical context however it's raised a debate nonetheless. Many people are not happy that he used that word and many people are not happy that he seemingly was putting white southerners racist attitudes down to economic anxiety rather than bigotry ('they were given' implies they were told by some superior to think that way).

Quote:
“For a hundred years, the white workers of the South were the most exploited white workers in America. They were paid the lowest wages, they endured the worst working conditions, their housing was abysmal, their kids went to the most backward schools, and very few could send their children to college. But what did they have? They were given ‘niggers’ to hate and look down on, ‘niggers’ who couldn’t vote, drink at their water fountains, use the same bathrooms, or sit up front in the buses or movie theaters.”
  #406  
Old 09-09-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Boycott View Post
An old 1997 book by Bernie Sanders is causing a lot of outrage on twitter due to the use of the n-word. A revised edition in 2015 which included an audiobook kept it in (and if you listen to it the narrator says the word boldly). Sanders supporters and spokeswoman are arguing that the intent was not discriminatory but trying to apply historical context however it's raised a debate nonetheless. Many people are not happy that he used that word and many people are not happy that he seemingly was putting white southerners racist attitudes down to economic anxiety rather than bigotry ('they were given' implies they were told by some superior to think that way).

In that context, perfectly acceptable.
  #407  
Old 09-09-2019, 06:35 PM
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In that context, perfectly acceptable.
White people using the word "nigger" for shock effect isn't so "perfectly acceptable" for you to state it with such confidence.
  #408  
Old 09-09-2019, 07:31 PM
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White people using the word "nigger" for shock effect isn't so "perfectly acceptable" for you to state it with such confidence.
I guess your copy of Huckleberry Finn is pretty marked up then isnt it?
  #409  
Old 09-09-2019, 07:50 PM
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I guess your copy of Huckleberry Finn is pretty marked up then isnt it?
Uh, huh. Why don't you try it at work tomorrow? In fact, don't even make up your own sentence or take credit for it. Walk up to someone you are friendly with and ask him how they feel about that Sanders quote. No saying "n-word", quote it completely. Shouldn't be a problem, as it is perfectly acceptable. If you get negative feedback, remind them that Twain used that word a hundred and thirty years ago with no complaints. I will appreciate you reporting back your results.

Last edited by CarnalK; 09-09-2019 at 07:54 PM.
  #410  
Old 09-09-2019, 08:53 PM
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Applying 2019 standards to something written in 1997 is a bit silly.

I am unconvinced that "outrage on Twitter" means anything, let alone any real measure of "many people."
  #411  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Boycott View Post
Many people are not happy that he used that word and many people are not happy that he seemingly was putting white southerners racist attitudes down to economic anxiety rather than bigotry ('they were given' implies they were told by some superior to think that way).
It's not his idea originally.
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Originally Posted by WEB DuBois
It must be remembered that the white group of laborers, while they received a low wage, were compensated in part by a sort of public and psychological wage. They were given public deference and titles of courtesy because they were white. They were admitted freely with all classes of white people to public functions, public parks, and the best schools. The police were drawn from their ranks, and the courts, dependent on their votes, treated them with such leniency as to encourage lawlessness. Their vote selected public officials, and while this had small effect upon the economic situation, it had great effect upon their personal treatment and the deference shown them. White schoolhouses were the best in the community, and conspicuously placed, and they cost anywhere from twice to ten times as much per capita as the colored schools. The newspapers specialized on news that flattered the poor whites and almost utterly ignored the Negro except in crime and ridicule.
As for the word usage, I would've chosen differently. But in the spectrum of when a white person can use that word, using it to discuss the viciously racist perspective of most poor white Southerners during the Jim Crow era has got to be as close as you can ever get to the acceptable end of the spectrum.
  #412  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:21 PM
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Applying 2019 standards to something written in 1997 is a bit silly.

I am unconvinced that "outrage on Twitter" means anything, let alone any real measure of "many people."
Come on, 1997 is out of bounds? In '97, would you have felt it perfectly appropriate making that comment? Just for a relativity reminder, Chris Rock did his controversial "Niggas vs. Black People" bit in '96. Don't think it was fair game for the Congressman from Vermont.
  #413  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:47 PM
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In that context?

The norm that a white person cannot use the word as a historical object, in quotes, in reference to the words as they were used as tools of oppression in past times, and that writers instead have to state in such a way that it makes it seem like those who were oppressing were saying "n-word" is a very recent thing. I'd say even two years back no academic quoting what a racist had said or illustrating how they thought would have considered substituting the actual word with "n-word." And I am not so sure many would now.

C'mon.

I'm no Sanders fan but that use in in that context in 1997 is a problem for a very very small bubble.

Last edited by DSeid; 09-09-2019 at 09:49 PM.
  #414  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:32 PM
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I don't think it's a super big deal. Just thought it was a kind of gross turn of phrase. I think my 28 yr old self in '97 would have agreed.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:15 PM
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My 38 year old self would have thought that what was written fairly well made the point that poor southern whites economically abused themselves, were mollified by being placed superior in the social order to a dehumanized other. That gross word was an important part of that process.

But hell my 38 year old self was reading Huck Finn aloud with my then 12 year old and having discussions about it without censoring the words used.

Sanders has not in recent years demonstrated much understanding of how racial factors are independent but synergistic elements of disadvantage with economic factors in this country. That ancient blurb is even about that time as it impacted whites. There is no shortage of problems that he has. Use of that word in that way then is not one of them. IMHO.
  #416  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:24 PM
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...
As for the word usage, I would've chosen differently. But in the spectrum of when a white person can use that word, using it to discuss the viciously racist perspective of most poor white Southerners during the Jim Crow era has got to be as close as you can ever get to the acceptable end of the spectrum.
Yep.
  #417  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:36 PM
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Same with Biden, Joe has been known (and even loved0 for his Gaffes for decades.

Age is just a bigoted reason.
No, it isn't. Advanced age diminishes mental acuity. E.g., Trump exhibits signs of Alzheimer's -- his aides have observed Alzheimer's symptomatic "sundowning." And there is no reason why a Dem would be immune.
  #418  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:51 PM
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Don't forget that Bob Dylan used the n-word (See? I'm even afraid to write it out here for clarity) in one of his songs. Gasp!! Boycott his music! Force him to melt down his Nobel Prize and give the proceeds to the NAACP. (No, not that NAACP. The Numskulls Association for Absurd Correctness Political.)

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In that context, perfectly acceptable.
More than just acceptable. Calling attention to the pejorative was essential to provide clarity and emphasis in that quote. Whitewashing the word would whitewash the ugly racism that deployed the word.

There's a Wikiquote page with this George Wallace quote:
I was out-niggered by John Patterson. And I'll tell you here and now, I will never be out-niggered again.

Are the Wiki editors also to blame, for not replacing the word, e.g. with the (nonsensical-in-context) 'out-blacked'? Or 'out-African-Americaned?'

Yet Sanders' use of the term is essentially the same as Wiki's: Wiki is quoting Wallace, Sanders quotes a generic racist.
  #419  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:58 PM
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I guess your copy of Huckleberry Finn is pretty marked up then isnt it?
Twain did not use the n-word for "shock value," he used it because his characters -- white and black -- would have.

Last edited by kirkrapine; 09-10-2019 at 12:00 AM.
  #420  
Old 09-10-2019, 04:47 AM
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... ('they were given' implies they were told by some superior to think that way).
Do you think they weren't?
  #421  
Old 09-10-2019, 05:37 AM
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More than just acceptable. Calling attention to the pejorative was essential to provide clarity and emphasis in that quote. Whitewashing the word would whitewash the ugly racism that deployed the word.
This is the key point here. It's not just a matter of shock value. This is a direct understanding of the thought processes of southerners at the time. "I may not have it good, but at least the negroes had it worse". It's not tactless to say it like that.
  #422  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:28 AM
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.
Sanders has not in recent years demonstrated much understanding of how racial factors are independent but synergistic elements of disadvantage with economic factors in this country. That ancient blurb is even about that time as it impacted whites. There is no shortage of problems that he has. Use of that word in that way then is not one of them. IMHO.
Frankly, that makes it worse. Someone from the whitest state, with poor understanding of racial issues, shouldn't be using the word as a prop for his class struggle arguments. It's super fucking cringey.
  #423  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:39 AM
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It may be slightly off-topic here, but socialist supporters of Bernie Sanders may be happy the hear that the Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst is not fond of post-rational American capitalism.

Yes, the publisher is RT ... but their news is better than most of the U.S.A. media with its focus on nonsense and gibberish.
  #424  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:44 AM
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I'm not so sure that this is true.

The best executives are not making huge numbers of decisions quickly and personally handling every unexpected problem. Their talent is in developing excellent teams working under them and managing them well. Included in that is developing the big picture goals and in defining the broad set of tactics to be used by that team that delivers those outcomes. In the case of a president the other key skill is in being able to the effective communicator to the public on a variety of subjects.

An executive who micromanages and is having to constantly make decisions is bad at the job..
Of course presidents delegate -- both information-gathering, and minor decisions.

But the job at this point is so large that there are a lot of decisions related to it that aren't minor. While any remotely sensible president of course has teams of advisors to do the research and explore and explain the various options, the POTUS is supposed to be the one who decides among those options, and isn't supposed to delegate the actual decisions on major matters. The classic line "the buck stops here" is classic for a reason.

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Twain did not use the n-word for "shock value," he used it because his characters -- white and black -- would have.
He used it also to make a point: that those of his characters who were using it were ignorant and prejudiced.

And he makes very specifically the point being discussed in this thread: he puts the word in the mouth of Huck's father, who is a child abuser, a drunk, broke, out of work and unwilling to work, and is portrayed in general as a useless and actively harmful character; but who explicitly prides himself on being far better than anyone who's black.

Whether it was politic for Biden to use the word's another question. The point being made is reasonable and accurate, and the use of the word hammers home the point; but it may also hammer other impacts Biden presumably didn't intend.
  #425  
Old 09-10-2019, 10:01 AM
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But the job at this point is so large that there are a lot of decisions related to it that aren't minor. While any remotely sensible president of course has teams of advisors to do the research and explore and explain the various options, the POTUS is supposed to be the one who decides among those options, and isn't supposed to delegate the actual decisions on major matters. The classic line "the buck stops here" is classic for a reason.
Yes, the idea that the President can just "phone it in" from the golf course is absurd. (Of course when the President behaves like a petulant six-year old, we should be grateful for any time wasted at golf.)

A book I highly recommend for a look at Presidential work is The Price of Loyalty. Pres. Ford, not an expert at economics by any stretch, asked his two top economics advisers into the Oval Office and invited them to debate each other! Occasionally Ford would ask a question.

The book's author contrasts this with G.W. Bush, whose eyes would glaze over if Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil let his briefing go over ten minutes. (Of course, Bush was almost a literate intellectual compared with the present incumbent.)
  #426  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:50 PM
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No, it isn't. Advanced age diminishes mental acuity. E.g., Trump exhibits signs of Alzheimer's -- his aides have observed Alzheimer's symptomatic "sundowning." And there is no reason why a Dem would be immune.
Sure it does- on a person by person basis. Some people are sharp until well until their 90's. Bernie by no means is my fave, but he looks and sounds quite sharp.

OTOH, I have met many 20 yo where their "mental acuity" is very doubtful.

Note that no Republican is attacking trump on that basis, only the dems attack each other, giving trump a clear shot at winning.
  #427  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:51 PM
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Whether it was politic for Biden to use the word's another question. The point being made is reasonable and accurate, and the use of the word hammers home the point; but it may also hammer other impacts Biden presumably didn't intend.
Not Biden- Sanders.
  #428  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:53 PM
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It may be slightly off-topic here, but socialist supporters of Bernie Sanders may be happy the hear that the Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst is not fond of post-rational American capitalism.

Yes, the publisher is RT ... but their news is better than most of the U.S.A. media with its focus on nonsense and gibberish.
A Russian propaganda outlet with a segment on "the coming collapse of the American Economic System" is being compared to what, exactly, and coming out favorably? Is this cage match of reliability pitting RT against TMZ?
  #429  
Old 09-10-2019, 02:05 PM
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A Russian propaganda outlet with a segment on "the coming collapse of the American Economic System" is being compared to what, exactly, and coming out favorably? Is this cage match of reliability pitting RT against TMZ?
Forget the scary caption. The content is interesting; and I thought Bernie supporters might want to watch it.

Yes RT is full of propaganda, but so are Fox and MSNBC. CNN is full of nothing. Right now the stock market is near its all-time high, yet every time there's a down-tick day the main-stream media goes into overdrive prattling as though a crash were in progress. Et cetera.

So ... No apology for the link.
  #430  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:50 PM
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Frankly, that makes it worse. Someone from the whitest state, with poor understanding of racial issues, shouldn't be using the word as a prop for his class struggle arguments. It's super fucking cringey.
We can disagree there. But while it is an analysis of how white "haves" mollified white "have-nots" by putting an other as lesser entities, and is not about the the Black perspective of that experience at all, it must be noted how timely that is. It is of course the same exact play that Trumpism does to win the support of non-college educated whites today, with a variety of others filling that blank.

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Of course presidents delegate -- both information-gathering, and minor decisions.

But the job at this point is so large that there are a lot of decisions related to it that aren't minor. While any remotely sensible president of course has teams of advisors to do the research and explore and explain the various options, the POTUS is supposed to be the one who decides among those options, and isn't supposed to delegate the actual decisions on major matters. The classic line "the buck stops here" is classic for a reason ...
I can agree there. But how many of them are previously unexpected problems that need to be decided upon on a moment's notice? Which was the specific skill you posited declines with age.

Again Sanders may not have either skill ... but I don't think he did at any age.
  #431  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:59 PM
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Forget the scary caption. The content is interesting; and I thought Bernie supporters might want to watch it.

Yes RT is full of propaganda, but so are Fox and MSNBC. CNN is full of nothing. Right now the stock market is near its all-time high, yet every time there's a down-tick day the main-stream media goes into overdrive prattling as though a crash were in progress. Et cetera.

So ... No apology for the link.
Marxist economist goes on RT! Drop everything and watch, Jill Stein voters!
  #432  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:17 PM
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NM

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  #433  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:16 PM
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Don't forget that Bob Dylan used the n-word (See? I'm even afraid to write it out here for clarity) in one of his songs. Gasp!! Boycott his music! Force him to melt down his Nobel Prize and give the proceeds to the NAACP. (No, not that NAACP. The Numskulls Association for Absurd Correctness Political.)



More than just acceptable. Calling attention to the pejorative was essential to provide clarity and emphasis in that quote. Whitewashing the word would whitewash the ugly racism that deployed the word.

There's a Wikiquote page with this George Wallace quote:
I was out-niggered by John Patterson. And I'll tell you here and now, I will never be out-niggered again.

Are the Wiki editors also to blame, for not replacing the word, e.g. with the (nonsensical-in-context) 'out-blacked'? Or 'out-African-Americaned?'

Yet Sanders' use of the term is essentially the same as Wiki's: Wiki is quoting Wallace, Sanders quotes a generic racist.
I once heard that quoted with "out-segged" substituted for "out-niggered." Don't know which is authentic, but I tend toward the latter.
  #434  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:26 PM
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It may be slightly off-topic here, but socialist supporters of Bernie Sanders may be happy the hear that the Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst is not fond of post-rational American capitalism.

Yes, the publisher is RT ... but their news is better than most of the U.S.A. media with its focus on nonsense and gibberish.
What does that have to do with Sanders? There are plenty of lefty academics, we knew that.
  #435  
Old 09-11-2019, 07:45 AM
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Indeed.


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Uh, huh. Why don't you try it at work tomorrow? In fact, don't even make up your own sentence or take credit for it. Walk up to someone you are friendly with and ask him how they feel about that Sanders quote. No saying "n-word", quote it completely. Shouldn't be a problem, as it is perfectly acceptable. If you get negative feedback, remind them that Twain used that word a hundred and thirty years ago with no complaints. I will appreciate you reporting back your results.

Ha, exactly.

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Applying 2019 standards to something written in 1997 is a bit silly.

I am unconvinced that "outrage on Twitter" means anything, let alone any real measure of "many people."

I agree with your last sentence, but 1997? Really? I became a teenager in the 1980s and would not have dreamed of saying or writing that word then. His analysis isn’t wrong, but he should have reworded it, perhaps using the phrase “crude, dehumanizing racial epithets” or something like that.


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Frankly, that makes it worse. Someone from the whitest state, with poor understanding of racial issues, shouldn't be using the word as a prop for his class struggle arguments. It's super fucking cringey.

This. Similarly cringey whenever he tries to address racial issues in front of black audiences. It’s not that he’s a virulent racist, he just has spent his whole life around white people and it shows.
  #436  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:41 AM
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But Spike Lee loves him, so it's OK.
  #437  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:57 AM
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Not Biden- Sanders.
Whoops, sorry! Thanks for correction.

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I can agree there. But how many of them are previously unexpected problems that need to be decided upon on a moment's notice? Which was the specific skill you posited declines with age.
For one, while previously unexpected problems that need to be decided on a moment's notice are rare and a particular presidency may not even have any, if and when they do come up they're massively important.

For another, that's not the only skill I said declines with age. I also said:

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It's also a matter of endurance/stamina [. . . ]

The Presidency, if done at all properly, is very much a full time job, requiring not only responses well thought out over a period of time, but large numbers of such within any given week on a very wide variety of subjects [ . . . ]

Not all of them are capable of juggling a dozen major decisions at the same time, and doing so day after day after day for four years, [ . . . ] the ability in many people diminishes with age. Very few people have the same total energy available to draw on at 80 as they did when they were 40; or the same recovery time from unusual demands on it.
  #438  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:01 AM
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An old 1997 book by Bernie Sanders is causing a lot of outrage on twitter due to the use of the n-word. A revised edition in 2015 which included an audiobook kept it in (and if you listen to it the narrator says the word boldly). Sanders supporters and spokeswoman are arguing that the intent was not discriminatory but trying to apply historical context however it's raised a debate nonetheless. Many people are not happy that he used that word and many people are not happy that he seemingly was putting white southerners racist attitudes down to economic anxiety rather than bigotry ('they were given' implies they were told by some superior to think that way).
The fact that Sanders puts the N-word in quotation marks in that passage, I think, is what's important. There is a big difference between N-word and "N-Word." People being upset about this makes as little sense as being upset at the movie 42 (about Jackie Robinson) for featuring countless N-words.
  #439  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:23 PM
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Here's a good article from 2016 debunking the criticism that Sanders has been an "ineffective" or "gadfly" legislator.

Juicy bits:

Dubbed the ‘amendment king,’ Mr. Sanders passed more amendments than any other member of Congress during his 16 years in the House of Representatives—despite Republicans holding a majority between 1994 and 2006. He kicked off his political career with an amendment to start a National Program of Cancer registries, which is now maintained by all 50 states. In 2001, he successfully passed an amendment to the general appropriations bill which banned the importation of goods made with child labor, and passed an amendment to increase funding by $100 million for community health centers.

Amid years of partisan politics where each party has obstructed the other from passing meaningful legislation, Mr. Sanders worked across the aisle with his conservative counterparts—with Ron Paul to audit the Federal Reserve for the first time in 2010 and with John McCain in 2014 to co-write the bill to reform the Veterans Affairs Administration.
  #440  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:59 PM
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You can’t be bothered to use quote tags?
  #441  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:06 PM
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Here's NBC News on the Sanders campaign's recent staff changes and expansion: https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...hase/23813888/
  #442  
Old 09-16-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Here's NBC News on the Sanders campaign's recent staff changes and expansion: https://www.aol.com/article/news/201...hase/23813888/
Let's hope that this time around, the Bernie Bros will resolve to Vote Blue No Matter Who. We need no more Naders.
  #443  
Old 09-17-2019, 06:26 AM
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The Working Families Party which endorsed Sanders in 2016 have now given their endorsement for 2020 to Warren.

His supporters are mad!

https://twitter.com/WorkingFamilies/...14425565204480
  #444  
Old 09-17-2019, 06:44 AM
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The Working Families Party which endorsed Sanders in 2016 have now given their endorsement for 2020 to Warren.

His supporters are mad!

https://twitter.com/WorkingFamilies/...14425565204480
Oh look - the usual feet-stomping, breath-holding crew of toddlers are out in force, complaining that "It's not fair!" and "The vote was rigged!".

Again.
  #445  
Old 09-17-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Oh look - the usual feet-stomping, breath-holding crew of toddlers are out in force, complaining that "It's not fair!" and "The vote was rigged!".

Again.
I see what you mean:

"They can do whatever they want but don't co-opt labor terminology for your org name ("working families") + cite org building, and then pick the capitalist-to-her-bones over the one who consistently supports labor, huge working class support, has been organizing for yrs, it's bs"

and

"50% was leadership vote, so if they backed a candidate, that's the candidate who will win. 50% was paid members & unpaid supporters (they made it very difficult to get unpaid supporter ballot, you had to be really engaged & also follow directions in a late-in-the-game email)" This is how the votes were tallied.

They need to wipe the drool off their faces and cool it with the hissy fits.
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  #446  
Old 09-17-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily Litella View Post
"50% was leadership vote, so if they backed a candidate, that's the candidate who will win. 50% was paid members & unpaid supporters (they made it very difficult to get unpaid supporter ballot, you had to be really engaged & also follow directions in a late-in-the-game email)" This is how the votes were tallied..
I loved the response to that one. "Follow directions? What a farce! Rigged!"
  #447  
Old 09-17-2019, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boycott View Post
Many people are not happy that he used that word and many people are not happy that he seemingly was putting white southerners racist attitudes down to economic anxiety rather than bigotry ('they were given' implies they were told by some superior to think that way).
The question is whether any of those people who are not happy were ever going to vote for Sanders even if he didn't use that word. Somehow I doubt it.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 09-17-2019 at 07:16 PM.
  #448  
Old 09-17-2019, 07:44 PM
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The question is whether any of those people who are not happy were ever going to vote for Sanders even if he didn't use that word. Somehow I doubt it.
And you trust your gut on this, why exactly? Not saying that you're wrong but I really don't know what makes you so sure. Is it because his supporters are mostly 30 something white guys who aren't offended by the word?

Last edited by CarnalK; 09-17-2019 at 07:47 PM.
  #449  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:59 AM
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I see what you mean:

"They can do whatever they want but don't co-opt labor terminology for your org name ("working families") + cite org building, and then pick the capitalist-to-her-bones over the one who consistently supports labor, huge working class support, has been organizing for yrs, it's bs"

and

"50% was leadership vote, so if they backed a candidate, that's the candidate who will win. 50% was paid members & unpaid supporters (they made it very difficult to get unpaid supporter ballot, you had to be really engaged & also follow directions in a late-in-the-game email)" This is how the votes were tallied.

They need to wipe the drool off their faces and cool it with the hissy fits.
Is this a different approach to how WFP agreed to endorse Sanders last time?

Also, the "capitalist-to-her-bones" Warren is pretty much the only one even bothering to challenge Wall Street and the big banks these days.
  #450  
Old 09-18-2019, 12:21 PM
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Is it not clear to Bernie supporters by this point that he has zero chance of getting a majority of delegates? Amy Klobuchar has a better chance of becoming the nominee than he does. He might have the highest floor of any of the candidates, maybe even higher than Biden, but he has the lowest ceiling.

ETA: Nor is there any chance someone is going to tap him as a running mate. The bitterness this virtually certain snub may engender could be a problem; however, if the VP slot is filled by someone who is not a white man, it will hopefully be seen as churlish to make much of a stink about it.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 09-18-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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