Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #201  
Old 02-02-2019, 09:38 PM
nearwildheaven is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
I'll tell you one thing, if it wasn't me in a picture like that you can believe I'd be screaming it from the first accusation. Also, I'd want to know back then what the fuck it was doing on my yearbook page.
No kidding. And wouldn't someone remember going as a crazy thing like that? Heck, a decade later I went as Pat from SNL (I actually looked more like Daria Morgendorffer, but she hadn't come along yet) and I remember that.
  #202  
Old 02-02-2019, 09:44 PM
Magiver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Dayton Ohio USA
Posts: 28,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
How does that allow for the killing of said infant?
He was responding to legislation proposed in his state in which an aborted baby survived. You can read about it here.

Here is what Kathy Tran said about the bill she proposed:

“How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?” Gilbert asked.

“Through the third trimester,” Tran responded. “The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.”

“Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth,” Gilbert then asked, “would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? She’s dilating.”

“My bill would allow that,” Tran said.
  #203  
Old 02-02-2019, 09:52 PM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,973
Watching the press conference. Hearing this guy talk about impersonating Michael Jackson at a talent show is cringe-inducing beyond belief. His vocal delivery and body language also remind me of George W. Bush to the max, which is not a point in his favor.
  #204  
Old 02-02-2019, 09:59 PM
hajario's Avatar
hajario is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Posts: 16,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
They're too busy shredding their own copies, having looked at their own pages from 30+ years ago, and recoiledv in horror, saying "What was I thinking?!?"
Another page from that yearbook has surfaced with someone else in a blackface costume. https://www.richmond.com/news/local/...497642b57.html
  #205  
Old 02-02-2019, 10:10 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Speaking of 'off,' I was sure wrong about him resigning today!

What a fucking nightmare for Virginia Democrats.
A bigger nightmare would be if, in the face of a growing Democratic chorus to have him resign, he decides to switch parties and become a Republican. It's not like the Republicans wouldn't at least partially support him.
  #206  
Old 02-02-2019, 10:22 PM
Northern Piper is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: The snow is back, dammit!
Posts: 30,129

Virginia gov. yearbook page has Klan and blackface pictures


Quote:
Originally Posted by hajario View Post
Another page from that yearbook has surfaced with someone else in a blackface costume. https://www.richmond.com/news/local/...497642b57.html


Now, if only I could pick stocks that well...
__________________
"I don't like to make plans for the day. If I do, that's when words like 'premeditated' start getting thrown around in the courtroom."

Last edited by Northern Piper; 02-02-2019 at 10:23 PM.
  #207  
Old 02-02-2019, 10:23 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,308
I accept that Northam is not a racist today, and as far as we know, he might never have been a racist. It doesn't really matter; the offense is still serious enough that he needs to resign for the good of the Commonwealth.

If he came out and owned up to it and said "It was an insensitive joke -- much like Prince Harry's decision to wear a Nazi costume at a Halloween party. I apologize, full stop." I could almost accept that, except for the fact that he really ought to have known better, given his age and given the fact that he grew up in a culture with very clear racial dividing lines.

Let's step back and consider this: it's a blatantly racist photograph, not in his high school yearbook picture, not even in his college fraternity yearbook picture, but his medical school yearbook. He's about to enter the professional world, and he thought somehow that this was acceptable to participate in. We're talking about knowingly, willingly participating in a picture that makes light of an organization that murdered black people by the thousands from 1866 - 1979. I doubt that it's the case that he had no say at all in what photographs he got 'tagged' in. He presumably thought it was okay, that it's just a joke, and that it's funny and doesn't matter. He's just edgy, politically incorrect, I guess.

But why didn't it seem to matter? What made him think that it was just an edgy joke that nobody would care about? The reason it didn't matter is that in 1980s Virginia, the opinions of black people didn't really matter. There probably weren't that many black med students in his program and in his formative years, Virginia was still segregated. It was just harmless humor among mostly white folk. In 2019 the opinions of black people probably matter a little more now than they did then, fortunately, but we shall see.
  #208  
Old 02-02-2019, 10:41 PM
Magiver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Dayton Ohio USA
Posts: 28,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Now, if only I could pick stocks that well...
From the same cite, the school is going to review every student yearbook:

Homan said the school’s administration is planning to hold a meeting with students and its board of visitors to discuss the issue and find a way to address it.

In a second statement Saturday night, Homan said he would “direct that an external investigation be conducted as soon as possible to review all our past yearbooks.”

the beeping sound you hear is the bus backing up.
  #209  
Old 02-02-2019, 10:54 PM
Riemann's Avatar
Riemann is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA
Posts: 7,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajario View Post
Another page from that yearbook has surfaced with someone else in a blackface costume. https://www.richmond.com/news/local/...497642b57.html
He's supposed to be Diana Ross. I think that's vastly different from coon stereotype + KKK. I don't think it's really shocking to see somebody in fancy dress like that as a famous black singer in 1985.
  #210  
Old 02-02-2019, 11:05 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
He's supposed to be Diana Ross. I think that's vastly different from coon stereotype + KKK. I don't think it's really shocking to see somebody in fancy dress like that as a famous black singer in 1985.
Yeah, it's tasteless now, not racist like the other.
  #211  
Old 02-02-2019, 11:14 PM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 36,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Editor, advisor, whatever - obviously a nutcase here.
I think the point is that the students themselves might have run the publication themselves without needing approval from anyone on faculty or staff.
  #212  
Old 02-03-2019, 06:27 AM
BigT's Avatar
BigT is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: "Hicksville", Ark.
Posts: 36,866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
A question (not trying to make any point, just wondering):

What if he had done the same thing, but there wasn't a photo of it? What if one of his classmates had come forward and said "I remember that time he dressed up in blackface, and went to a party with that other guy dressed in a KKK outfit," and plenty of other people corroborated it? Same facts, but perhaps different emotional reaction without the visual. Would there be the same level of outrage?
There is the issue of thinking it might be a political attack without the photo. But I'd expect having any Dems who were trying to come up with an excuse to support him would up the outrage factor, not decrease it.
  #213  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:00 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
He was responding to legislation proposed in his state in which an aborted baby survived. You can read about it here.

Here is what Kathy Tran said about the bill she proposed:

“How late in the third trimester could a physician perform an abortion if he indicated it would impair the mental health of the woman?” Gilbert asked.

“Through the third trimester,” Tran responded. “The third trimester goes all the way up to 40 weeks.”

“Where it’s obvious that a woman is about to give birth,” Gilbert then asked, “would that still be a point at which she could request an abortion if she was so certified? She’s dilating.”

“My bill would allow that,” Tran said.
If it would have allowed it now, then the law has allowed it all along. Per your link, the law wouldn't have changed when an abortion could take place. It now only would have required one doctor rather than three to approve the abortion, and would have set a lower bar in terms of the potential health consequences needed for the doc to give the go-ahead.

You are repeating what one might call the organized, deliberate hysterics of the pro-lifers.
  #214  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:07 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
The reason it didn't matter is that in 1980s Virginia, the opinions of black people didn't really matter.
Doug Wilder got elected Lieutenant Governor of Virginia in 1985.

I'd agree that, much to our shame, the opinions of black people, then and now, mattered and matter less in our body politic than the opinions of white people. But to say they didn't really matter in Virginia in the 1980s is demonstrably false.
  #215  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:12 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Doug Wilder got elected Lieutenant Governor of Virginia in 1985.

I'd agree that, much to our shame, the opinions of black people, then and now, mattered and matter less in our body politic than the opinions of white people. But to say they didn't really matter in Virginia in the 1980s is demonstrably false.
Again, as was the case during the Barack Obama era, don't delude yourself into believing that evidence of having elected a light-skinned political moderate is evidence that some kind of major progress has been made in terms of race relations.
  #216  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:59 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Again, as was the case during the Barack Obama era, don't delude yourself into believing that evidence of having elected a light-skinned political moderate is evidence that some kind of major progress has been made in terms of race relations.
Jeez, excluded middle much?

Could a black man have been elected President of the U.S. in 1984? Certainly not! Neither party would have nominated one. That one could be elected President in 2008 is evidence of substantial progress in people's attitudes.

Does it mean that everything's flowers and unicorns? Hell, no! But to say it means practically nothing is one big fat steaming pile of bullshit.
  #217  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:22 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,048
I'm in team "who the heck has a yearbook for graduate school? Why would anyone look for one? And who on earth LOOKS at old yearbooks?"

There were probably a couple hundred copies printed, most of which are sitting dusty on the bottom shelf of someone's bookcase in the basement.

I guess what this incident tells us is that he was popular in medical school, because if he had enemies, one of them might have gone poking through the old yearbook to see if he could find any dirt on the governor.

As for what should happen now? At first, when it looked like he was going to apologize, I was thinking that might be enough. It was a long time ago. Virginia was pretty openly racist then. A good sincere apology along the lines of

"I was wrong to do that, I was wrong to put it in my yearbook, but I have since learned how harmful that sort of behavior is and I have put it behind me. Look at my record for the last 20 years and how progressive I've been on racial issues. That's what I want to do going forward."

And I would likely have been okay with him. But this mealy-mouthed "oops! that wasn't me"? No dice. You chose to put it in your yearbook. You are responsible for it.
  #218  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:49 AM
Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,569
I wonder what the reaction would be if instead of this it turns out he had been convicted of a crime and nobody knew about it. that is unlikely given background checks but it's possible something could have been sealed. Would people want him out for a crime, say stealing a car for a short joy ride?
  #219  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:55 AM
Paul in Qatar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 13,044
He is still in the governor's mason? I would have bet heavily against that.
__________________
800-237-5055
Shrine Hospitals for Children (North America)
Never any fee
Do you know a child in need?
  #220  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:28 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Jeez, excluded middle much?

Could a black man have been elected President of the U.S. in 1984? Certainly not! Neither party would have nominated one. That one could be elected President in 2008 is evidence of substantial progress in people's attitudes.

Does it mean that everything's flowers and unicorns? Hell, no! But to say it means practically nothing is one big fat steaming pile of bullshit.
My point is that Northam apparently felt comfortable posing either as, or with, someone dressed up in Klan garb, and at minimum, consenting to said photo being used in a medical school yearbook. Ignore Doug Wilder and Barack Obama for a moment, and consider what that means. Consider what it means that the editor of the yearbook apparently had no problem with publishing the photo, and as far as we know there was never any kind of sanction for it. That's a society, however small it might be in this particular example, that is comfortable with racist memes and just being downright racist.

Yeah, sure, "it's a joke." Except that it's a joke that reinforces white supremacy because nobody -- from the people taking the photo, to the people in the photo, to the publisher of the yearbook, and to the entire community -- sees anything particularly wrong with it, or at least it's not so wrong that it resulted in any immediate backlash with consequences. I find it hard to believe that only a handful of people at the medical school were aware of the photo, and I have a hard time believing that classmates and school officials at VMI weren't aware of Northam's nickname "Coon man." People knew - they just didn't care. And they didn't care because in the 1980s, even 20 years after the Civil Rights laws were enacted, black people in Virginia still had a status that was comparatively quite low.

Last edited by asahi; 02-03-2019 at 09:29 AM.
  #221  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:57 AM
spifflog is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I accept that Northam is not a racist today, and as far as we know, he might never have been a racist. It doesn't really matter; the offense is still serious enough that he needs to resign for the good of the Commonwealth. . . .

Let's step back and consider this: it's a blatantly racist photograph, not in his high school yearbook picture, not even in his college fraternity yearbook picture, but his medical school yearbook. He's about to enter the professional world, and he thought somehow that this was acceptable to participate in. We're talking about knowingly, willingly participating in a picture that makes light of an organization that murdered black people by the thousands from 1866 - 1979. I doubt that it's the case that he had no say at all in what photographs he got 'tagged' in. He presumably thought it was okay, that it's just a joke, and that it's funny and doesn't matter. He's just edgy, politically incorrect, I guess.
We all agree that it's a disgusting, offensive photo. And I'm on the fence, but I think he probably needs to go. It goes without saying that if he condones that today he's a racist tool that needs to booted from office today. But . . .

I'm a 56 year old man. And I'm certain that I did something, said something or was tangentially evolved in something 25 to 35 years ago that by today's standards would be offense. But things change, and social mores change. And I'm very uncomfortable that we are going to bring out actions from 35, 45, 55? years ago, judge them by today's standards and take action on them.

While I live in Virginia now, I don't know much about the Governor, but I haven't heard him being racist before now. Do his actions over the last 35 years, provided they were progressive and honest, trump the photo?

In short, are we all certain that we haven't done anything over the last 35 years that would be judged differently today? What are we doing now that our grandchildren will look askance at us for in 40 years? Because you can be certain that some things that we condone now will look like hell in 40 years.
  #222  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:20 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,749
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
You are repeating what one might call the organized, deliberate hysterics of the pro-lifers.

No. This is about suburban moderates who aren’t thrilled about first trimester abortion but don’t believe it should be outlawed. I am not a suburban moderate per se, but I share their deep skepticism about second and third trimester abortion, and I believe you should only be able to get one if you get past a serious medical ethics panel, as is the case in my grandmother’s homeland of Ireland.
  #223  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:32 AM
Thudlow Boink's Avatar
Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 27,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
My point is that Northam apparently felt comfortable posing either as, or with, someone dressed up in Klan garb, and at minimum, consenting to said photo being used in a medical school yearbook.
Or not. What he's now saying is that he's not in that photo and hadn't seen it before Friday.
  #224  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:42 AM
Fenris's Avatar
Fenris is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 13,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
A bigger nightmare would be if, in the face of a growing Democratic chorus to have him resign, he decides to switch parties and become a Republican. It's not like the Republicans wouldn't at least partially support him.
That is a remarkably stupid argument. You’re attacking the Republicans for something they haven’t done yet? What if Democrats murdered all the babies and fed them to their Lizardmen masters? That would be what’s worse than the Republicans accepting a racist. So Democrats are worse Nyah-nyah.

Protip: posts work better if they’re based in reality.

Last edited by Fenris; 02-03-2019 at 10:46 AM.
  #225  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:01 AM
Riemann's Avatar
Riemann is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA
Posts: 7,783
I'm just left totally mystified by all this.

Let alone the original events, do we any even have any kind of remotely plausible or coherent account of Northam's actions over the past 48 hours? How on earth is it possible that he initially conceded that it's him in the photo if it's not?
  #226  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:19 AM
Fretful Porpentine is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Bohemia. A seacoast.
Posts: 6,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
I'm just left totally mystified by all this.

Let alone the original events, do we any even have any kind of remotely plausible or coherent account of Northam's actions over the past 48 hours? How on earth is it possible that he initially conceded that it's him in the photo if it's not?
This is what I keep trying to wrap my head around, and coming to the conclusion that the only really plausible explanation is pretty damning for Northam: the photo is of him and he knew it, he initially calculated that he could weather this particular political storm by acknowledging it and apologizing, discovered from the reactions to his statement on Friday that people still overwhelmingly wanted him to resign, and hastily backtracked with a now-very-unbelievable denial.

I can imagine a less damning version of events (Northam hears on Friday that someone has dug up a photo of him in blackface, remembers dressing up as Michael Jackson and leaps to the conclusion that this is the photo in question, issues his statement without actually seeing the photo, and is then subsequently horrified to discover that it's a different, far more offensive, picture of which he has no memory) -- but it makes no sense that Northam would not directly SAY that this is what happened, or, indeed, that he would make any sort of statement without knowing exactly what the photo showed, since images of the yearbook page had already hit the Internet at that point.
__________________
Live merrily, and trust to good verses.
-- Robert Herrick
  #227  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:24 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
No. This is about suburban moderates who aren’t thrilled about first trimester abortion but don’t believe it should be outlawed. I am not a suburban moderate per se, but I share their deep skepticism about second and third trimester abortion, and I believe you should only be able to get one if you get past a serious medical ethics panel, as is the case in my grandmother’s homeland of Ireland.
That's a fair argument to make.

But that's not where they're going. They're trying to make people think the Dems are trying to change the law to allow 'abortions' AFTER the baby is born.

They are NOT arguing over the change from 3 doctors to 1 doctor.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 02-03-2019 at 11:24 AM. Reason: CAPS.
  #228  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:26 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine View Post
This is what I keep trying to wrap my head around, and coming to the conclusion that the only really plausible explanation is pretty damning for Northam: the photo is of him and he knew it, he initially calculated that he could weather this particular political storm by acknowledging it and apologizing, discovered from the reactions to his statement on Friday that people still overwhelmingly wanted him to resign, and hastily backtracked with a now-very-unbelievable denial.

I can imagine a less damning version of events (Northam hears on Friday that someone has dug up a photo of him in blackface, remembers dressing up as Michael Jackson and leaps to the conclusion that this is the photo in question, issues his statement without actually seeing the photo, and is then subsequently horrified to discover that it's a different, far more offensive, picture of which he has no memory) -- but it makes no sense that Northam would not directly SAY that this is what happened, or, indeed, that he would make any sort of statement without knowing exactly what the photo showed, since images of the yearbook page had already hit the Internet at that point.
I want so much to see him say it’s like the MY COUSIN VINNY bit where the guy figures he’s been caught dead to rights for shoplifting and so is way too quick to confess just as soon as the cops start asking him anything, because clearly they mean this one thing and not — wait, I shot the clerk?
  #229  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:27 AM
Thudlow Boink's Avatar
Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 27,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine View Post
I can imagine a less damning version of events (Northam hears on Friday that someone has dug up a photo of him in blackface, remembers dressing up as Michael Jackson and leaps to the conclusion that this is the photo in question, issues his statement without actually seeing the photo, and is then subsequently horrified to discover that it's a different, far more offensive, picture of which he has no memory) -- but it makes no sense that Northam would not directly SAY that this is what happened, or, indeed, that he would make any sort of statement without knowing exactly what the photo showed, since images of the yearbook page had already hit the Internet at that point.
Yes. He said, "It has taken time for me to make sure that it's not me, but I am convinced, I am convinced that I am not in that picture." To me that implies either
(1) he did dress up like that sometimes, just not that particular time, or
(2) his memories of med school are fuzzy, but it wouldn't have been out of character for him to dress up that way.
  #230  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:27 AM
Riemann's Avatar
Riemann is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA
Posts: 7,783
Yup, there's a vast difference between Michael Jackson fancy dress and coon stereotype + KKK. Any kind of blackface is deprecated today, but I don't think the former is shocking or even surprising for a 1985 party. I wouldn't take a white person dressing up as Michael Jackson or Diana Ross in 1985 as indicative of individual racism (whatever it might say about the level of racism in society as a whole at that time).

So if that's all he actually did, how on earth can he look at a photo of coon + KKK and say "sure, that's probably me"? It just makes no sense whatsoever unless he was in the habit of dressing up as coon man too - as his nickname in the earlier yearbook suggests - and perhaps some buddies were too, and this particular photo turns out not to be him.

ETA: ninjaed by Thudlow

Last edited by Riemann; 02-03-2019 at 11:30 AM.
  #231  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:29 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 40,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
My point is that Northam apparently felt comfortable posing either as, or with, someone dressed up in Klan garb, and at minimum, consenting to said photo being used in a medical school yearbook. Ignore Doug Wilder and Barack Obama for a moment, and consider what that means. Consider what it means that the editor of the yearbook apparently had no problem with publishing the photo, and as far as we know there was never any kind of sanction for it. That's a society, however small it might be in this particular example, that is comfortable with racist memes and just being downright racist.
So because small societies such as this existed in 1984, there had been no significant change in whites' attitudes towards blacks in Virginia since the days of Jim Crow?

Gotcha.
  #232  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:24 PM
JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 16,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
Let alone the original events, do we any even have any kind of remotely plausible or coherent account of Northam's actions over the past 48 hours? How on earth is it possible that he initially conceded that it's him in the photo if it's not?
Right, this is one thing on which you should know exactly for what the hell you are going to be apologizing since getting it wrong means now you have to go, but for showing bad current judgment.

As others have said, his words indicate that he DID remember participating in some blackface shenanigans but he wasn't clear about for which specific incident was he being called out now.

But that means now we can't help but wonder what else may be out there that could blow up later on. That is what wounds him regarding being an effective governor from now on.

If he had proferred an unreserved apology at the start and then shut up and sat down with the people and groups he has upset, rather than do the, "oh, wait, THAT picture, THAT one's not me", I could be on the "oh, please, stupidity 30 years ago? there but for the grace of Og..." side. But not like this.




PS: Oh and yes, somewhere some opposition research team is looking like idiots

Last edited by JRDelirious; 02-03-2019 at 12:27 PM.
  #233  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:26 PM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Agreed.

I do understand that people generally don't look at their yearbooks much after they initially get them, BUT even if he didn't have one, SOMEONE would have had to let their kids, for instance, look at it, and the kids would say something like, "Is that the same man who's the governor?"
He has only been governor for a short time. These are yearbooks from 30 years ago.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
No. This is about suburban moderates who aren’t thrilled about first trimester abortion but don’t believe it should be outlawed. I am not a suburban moderate per se, but I share their deep skepticism about second and third trimester abortion, and I believe you should only be able to get one if you get past a serious medical ethics panel, as is the case in my grandmother’s homeland of Ireland.
How long does it take to convene a serious ethics panel? Say it is 3:00 AM, and a car accident victim comes in. The victim is pregnant, and within a week of her due date. Due to her injuries and stress, she is going into labor, and also, due to her injuries, the fetus is non-viable, and attempting a live delivery would be a great risk to her life.

So, the ER doc does what needs to be done to save the woman's life, should he go to jail? If doctors need to worry about non-medical professionals prosecuting them for making medical decisions, then that will cuase doctors to no longer perform what is in the best interest of the patient.

Should we convene a serious medical ethics panel to second guess all of a doctor's decisions, or just the ones that non-medical professionals think should be second guessed? There already *is* a panel of medical professionals that *will* second guess a doctor's decisions, and if it is found that they made poor decisions, they will be reprimanded and retrained to prevent a repeat of the error, if the decisions are made through fraud or negligence, they will be reprimanded much more severely, up to and including losing their license.

The claim that is being made, that this will allow late term abortions on demand, is hysteria that is created by liars, and is propagated by the ignorant.
  #234  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:04 PM
DigitalC is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 11,205
If he resigns who gets to be governor?
  #235  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:12 PM
suranyi is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
I'm in team "who the heck has a yearbook for graduate school? Why would anyone look for one? And who on earth LOOKS at old yearbooks?"

There were probably a couple hundred copies printed, most of which are sitting dusty on the bottom shelf of someone's bookcase in the basement.

I guess what this incident tells us is that he was popular in medical school, because if he had enemies, one of them might have gone poking through the old yearbook to see if he could find any dirt on the governor.

As for what should happen now? At first, when it looked like he was going to apologize, I was thinking that might be enough. It was a long time ago. Virginia was pretty openly racist then. A good sincere apology along the lines of

"I was wrong to do that, I was wrong to put it in my yearbook, but I have since learned how harmful that sort of behavior is and I have put it behind me. Look at my record for the last 20 years and how progressive I've been on racial issues. That's what I want to do going forward."

And I would likely have been okay with him. But this mealy-mouthed "oops! that wasn't me"? No dice. You chose to put it in your yearbook. You are responsible for it.
I keep wondering about this. You see, I also graduated from college in 1984, by coincidence, and I was friends was the college yearbook editors. And I know that in some cases the editors modified some students’ pages without their consent, if they didn’t like them. There was no oversight, and it was a cruel time.
__________________
Right now, it’s Girls’ Generation. Tomorrow, it’s Girls’ Generation. Forever, it’s Girls’ Generation!
  #236  
Old 02-03-2019, 03:12 PM
Riemann's Avatar
Riemann is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Santa Fe, NM, USA
Posts: 7,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
If he resigns who gets to be governor?
Lt Gov Fairfax, also Dem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.84342fda9ccc
  #237  
Old 02-03-2019, 06:22 PM
I Love Me, Vol. I's Avatar
I Love Me, Vol. I is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SF
Posts: 4,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
How does that allow for the killing of said infant?
It leaves room for discussion of euthanasia after the birth of a profoundly unhealthy baby.
  #238  
Old 02-03-2019, 07:23 PM
Magiver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Dayton Ohio USA
Posts: 28,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Love Me, Vol. I View Post
It leaves room for discussion of euthanasia after the birth of a profoundly unhealthy baby.
PBS did a show on late term abortion. In it they showed a woman who flat out didn't want to have the baby and this was in the 3rd trimester. Nothing wrong with the baby. She was given the abortion. I don't know what state it was in.
  #239  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:01 PM
Jonathan Chance is online now
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,136

The Moderator Clears His Throat


Does the abortion discussion have anything to do with Northam?

Take it to its own thread, guys.
  #240  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:07 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness's Avatar
Left Hand of Dorkness is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: at the right hand of cool
Posts: 41,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Does the abortion discussion have anything to do with Northam?
Yes
Quote:
Gov. Northam, a Democrat, was asked about the bill in a radio interview on Wednesday, and his response only added to the controversy. Appearing to discuss what would happen if a child was born after a failed attempt at abortion, he said, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
...
A spokesperson for Gov. Northam told Vox his comments were “absolutely not” a reference to infanticide, and that they “focused on the tragic and extremely rare case in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe fetal abnormalities went into labor.”
I hate hijacks, but in this case Northam's had a horrible no good very bad week, and the (deliberate?) misinterpretation of his words about abortion, in which the context of a "nonviable pregnancy or severe fetal abnormalities" was removed, is part of that week.
  #241  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:17 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Or not. What he's now saying is that he's not in that photo and hadn't seen it before Friday.
Do you really believe that?
  #242  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:19 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
That is a remarkably stupid argument. You’re attacking the Republicans for something they haven’t done yet? What if Democrats murdered all the babies and fed them to their Lizardmen masters? That would be what’s worse than the Republicans accepting a racist. So Democrats are worse Nyah-nyah.

Protip: posts work better if they’re based in reality.
Attacking Republicans for what they haven't done yet?

They accepted Steve King for years. They supported Ron Desantis for using racial dog whistles. They support a racist president with a white nationalist administration. It's not stupid; it's your denials that are stupid.
  #243  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:27 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
So because small societies such as this existed in 1984, there had been no significant change in whites' attitudes towards blacks in Virginia since the days of Jim Crow?

Gotcha.
I'm not arguing that white attitudes haven't changed; they just haven't always changed fast enough.

Again, this is a photo in a medical school yearbook, and it's also consistent with what was written in his VMI yearbook. It's not like some private Polaroid photo that was taken when he was drunk at a frat party. This is a reflection of the society in which he lived. We're talking about VMI society, medical school society, the graduates of which go on to become officers in the military, businessmen, physicians, or something else.
  #244  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:32 PM
Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by spifflog View Post
I'm a 56 year old man. And I'm certain that I did something, said something or was tangentially evolved in something 25 to 35 years ago that by today's standards would be offense. But things change, and social mores change. And I'm very uncomfortable that we are going to bring out actions from 35, 45, 55? years ago, judge them by today's standards and take action on them.
There are people in jail for crimes they committed 35, 45, 55 years ago, and people with permanent criminal records for things they did 35, 45, and 55 years ago. There are people killed by the state, either executed or 'shot while resisting' for things they did 35, 45, or 55 years ago. Also, why is there NOW so much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how you can't hold someone accountable for 40-year-old actions or things they did when they were college aged, instead of back when politicians started accusing opponents of being draft dodgers? If you really shouldn't be held accountable for decisions you made at 18, shouldn't 'draft dodging' stop being mentioned at all.

There's a pretty big gap between anything that 'would by today's standards be offensive' and 'wearing a kkk outfit and/or blackface for a yearbook photo, and doing it so often you don't even remember which incident of blackface/kkk photo this one is'. And there's a pretty big gap between saying 'yeah, I was pretty awful back in those days, but I've changed' and 'I apologiz... I mean, that's not me, it must be someone else, yeah, that's the ticket'.
  #245  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:34 PM
Paul in Qatar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 13,044
So I just woke up. He still hasn't quit. Imagine that.
__________________
800-237-5055
Shrine Hospitals for Children (North America)
Never any fee
Do you know a child in need?
  #246  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:35 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 27,135
Here it is Sunday evening and Northam still hasn't resigned. Anyone want to predict what will break the camel's back? The other guy in the photo comes forward? Demonstrations in Richmond? A sudden revelation about campaign finance irregularities?
  #247  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:37 PM
Jonathan Chance is online now
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,136
Well, he's probably watching the Super Bowl...alone.

Though if he wanted to announce his resignation now is the time to get out of Dodge.
  #248  
Old 02-03-2019, 08:41 PM
galen ubal is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Central VIC Australia
Posts: 2,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
Here it is Sunday evening and Northam still hasn't resigned. Anyone want to predict what will break the camel's back? The other guy in the photo comes forward? Demonstrations in Richmond? A sudden revelation about campaign finance irregularities?
Northam calls Sunday night staff meeting as he considers resignation.
Quote:
By Gregory S. Schneider ,
Laura Vozzella and
Jenna Portnoy
February 3 at 8:25 PM

Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) called an unscheduled senior staff meeting Sunday night just before the start of the Super Bowl, as the governor considered resigning after two days of defiance amid a controversy over racist photos in his medical school yearbook.

People familiar with the meeting said the governor had not reached a final decision about his fate. It was unclear who was there, besides that it involved senior staffers of color. But Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax, who would become governor if Northam resigned, was not there, the people said.

Calling the Sunday night meeting was a clear signal of Northam’s effort to weigh support within the administration as he evaluates his options. Though he pledged on Saturday to stand his ground, he also said he would reconsider if he felt he could no longer be effective. Just a day later, resignation is an active consideration, the people said.

The meeting was emotional, according to a Democratic official. Northam scheduled a larger meeting for Monday morning for administration staff, the official said.
__________________
Salvator apiae.
  #249  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:13 PM
Jonathan Chance is online now
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,136
I gotta figure, based on that, that he really doesn't want to resign and see his ambitions end. But I also conjecture that he knows he's done and needs to come to terms with it.
  #250  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:17 PM
hajario's Avatar
hajario is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Posts: 16,179
He can't have another term as Governor even if this totally blows over and everyone learns to love him. Any ambitions for Senate or the Presidency are gone for good over this. He won't get out of the primary. The rest of his term will be useless because no one will work with him. He's done. There is no way out.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017