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  #151  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:39 AM
terentii terentii is offline
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"Halsey" I picked up on immediately; the other two, I guess I wasn't paying attention. Though my first reaction to "Grayson" would probably be to associate it with "Dick."
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  #152  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:40 AM
standingwave standingwave is offline
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Originally Posted by kiz View Post
We saw the first episode on Amazon last night. Parody is an apt description. I've never been a big Star Trek fan, but the parody of it is right there in front of you.

The comedic moments aren't the LOL kind. The parody itself is part of the comedy, as is the sly asides/commentary characters make. It wasn't offensive at all. I was surprised McFarland turned it down that much.

I wouldn't mind seeing another couple of episodes but I think a show like this tends to either acquire a cult following like Galaxy Quest or quietly dies.
I'm not really seeing a parody. I think a parody would be a send up of any of the many Star Trek tropes out there: The captain wants to make it with every alien babe. The red shirt is always dying. The transporter malfunctions. The holodeck malfunctions. They warp to plaid. OK, I;ll grant that the helmsman likes to drink and so did Scotty.

What I saw was a wise-cracking yet moderately competent crew. OK, a couple of them are straight men. But the basic story was essentially SF, if a little bit Doctor Who at the end with the tree growing out of nothing. But I'll forgive that because they never explained exactly how that field was supposed to work anyway.

It's a delicate line blending comedy and drama. I enjoyed it. I want to see it succeed. It didn't knock my socks off but I'm damned if I'm paying CBS a monthly fee for the privilege of watching their show so this is all I got.

Someone upthread mentioned MASH and I was thinking that as well but I think I got something even more appropriate. Here's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that this could become an SF version of Psych* a police drama that was usually amusing and semi-serious at the same time. That's the tone I think they need to shoot for.

* (As long as The Orville never ever has a musical episode. They do that and I'm gone.)
  #153  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:41 AM
terentii terentii is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Yeah, if anything, I think they might try to make it funnier and ditch any semblance of playing it straight.
Other shows have managed to pull off a comedy--jeopardy format pretty well; McHale's Navy and Get Smart, f'rinstance.
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  #154  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by standingwave View Post
* (As long as The Orville never ever has a musical episode. They do that and I'm gone.)
Yeek. Hadn't thought of that. Given how often Stewie and Brian break into song, its seems very likely.
  #155  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:02 AM
terentii terentii is offline
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I'm surprised no one (except me) has noted the use of "That's very magnanimous of you!" yet.

SPOILER:
It's what Kirk says to Garth of Izar when he gives him Marta as his own personal pleasure slave in "Whom Gods Destroy," the only other time I can recall hearing the word "magnanimous" in my life (except for my own use of it over the years).
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  #156  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:08 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Originally Posted by standingwave View Post
I'm not really seeing a parody. I think a parody would be a send up of any of the many Star Trek tropes out there: The captain wants to make it with every alien babe. The red shirt is always dying. The transporter malfunctions. The holodeck malfunctions. They warp to plaid. OK, I;ll grant that the helmsman likes to drink and so did Scotty.

What I saw was a wise-cracking yet moderately competent crew. OK, a couple of them are straight men. But the basic story was essentially SF, if a little bit Doctor Who at the end with the tree growing out of nothing. But I'll forgive that because they never explained exactly how that field was supposed to work anyway.
It's more of a soft parody than an outright mockery, I suppose. The humor derives more from hanging lampshades on the space opera genre than in openly making fun of them.

The technobabble explanation for the tree was both classic ST and a perfect send-up of the genre. The scientist at the base explains that the redwood seeds have been modified with tardigrade DNA, which - if you watched the MacFarlane-produced reboot of Cosmos - you will remember are microscopic "water bears" that can survive in any climate, including the vacuum of space, for potentially billions of years. It's just the kind of miracle fix that Kirk/Picard and company would have come up with to save the Enterprise from some unbeatable enemy.
  #157  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:49 AM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
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"Halsey" I picked up on immediately; the other two, I guess I wasn't paying attention. Though my first reaction to "Grayson" would probably be to associate it with "Dick."
According to fanon, Amanda is a descendent of Richard Grayson, the dynamic mayor of Gotham just before the War.
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  #158  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:57 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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I read one review that called The Orville "unethical and immoral".
Here it is. When I first saw the headline (and before the episode aired) I figured that it would be because the show had McFarlane's signature willingness to make tasteless/off-color jokes. But nope, the show is morally and ethically bankrupt--because it is a parody of Star Trek. The writer is apparently a moron.

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  #159  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:01 AM
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I keep thinking that this is more The Office (Or maybe Office Space) in space than Star Trek, as ST had more military discipline. They didn't have helm, weapons, or tactical doing inane chatter like they did here. At least, not in front of Picard! I don't think the military would let them get away with some of it.

I also didn't have a problem with the tree solution because, as others pointed out, not having the required resources for it to grow is Trek to m, which is based on something plausible and taken to the implausible.

I liked that he had the intelligent joke (Arbor Day) and she had the crude one.

I like that it's optimistic as others have said. Yes, we do need more of that. And while I do think the Krill weren't bad @$$, I did find them interesting and want to know more about them. I wanted to hear that everyone was using stun on their weapons, so it's almost a "no harm no foul" kind of diplomacy that allows for guns but it's not fatal. That's me, though, nothing we saw on screen supports that.

I will keep watching.
  #160  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:07 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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It's not like Star Trek didn't have impossible growth. Look at Genesis. Extremely sped up growth on a barren planet with no actual resources for life. Heck, now that I think about it, maybe it was a reference to that.
ST:TNG also had an episode that involved pockets of accelerated or slowed time. And yeah, it is really, really, really stupid science (but actually IMHO acceptable in parody form than in what is supposed to be more serious SF.)
  #161  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:32 AM
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So, if anyone has seen both, how does it compare to Hyperdrive, my go-to Trek parody series.
  #162  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:57 AM
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It's either that or the pioneers of popcorn. Who knows what they'll be naming ships after in the 25th century.
U.S.S. Jiffypop.
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  #163  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:28 AM
terentii terentii is offline
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I keep thinking that this is more The Office (Or maybe Office Space) in space than Star Trek, as ST had more military discipline. They didn't have helm, weapons, or tactical doing inane chatter like they did here. At least, not in front of Picard! I don't think the military would let them get away with some of it.
I do, however, remember Geordie telling some off-color jokes to Data when he was still manning the helm. Data, of course, analyzed them to death.
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  #164  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:31 AM
terentii terentii is offline
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ST:TNG also had an episode that involved pockets of accelerated or slowed time. And yeah, it is really, really, really stupid science (but actually IMHO acceptable in parody form than in what is supposed to be more serious SF.)
Not really. The flow of time is not uniform across the Universe. It can be slowed by fields of high gravitational or other energies. Everything is relative.
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  #165  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:37 AM
terentii terentii is offline
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U.S.S. Jiffypop.
I like it!
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  #166  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:38 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Not really.
Yes, really.
  #167  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:43 AM
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Yes, really.
So you adhere to the Newtonian concept of absolute time?
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  #168  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:47 AM
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I also didn't have a problem with the tree solution because, as others pointed out, not having the required resources for it to grow is Trek to m, which is based on something plausible and taken to the implausible.
Someone upthread mentioned that the scientists had spliced water bear DNA into the redwoods.
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  #169  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:55 AM
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I like it!
It has a pleated aluminum dome over the saucer section.
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  #170  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:20 AM
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Someone upthread mentioned that the scientists had spliced water bear DNA into the redwoods.
Whch would make one wonder how 'eating' the seeds could be a good idea.
  #171  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:28 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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So you adhere to the Newtonian concept of absolute time?
1.) Yes, time is slowed down by movement and gravity, but there is nothing that we know of that speeds up time relative to the external universe.

2.) Even if it were possible to speed up time within an small field, sticking your hand (as in ST:TNG) or head (as in The Orville) into that accelerated time field would not make your hand or head age until it was elderly because your blood is being pumped from your heart still outside the field, so that all blood supply would effectively be cut off to that part of your body in the accelerated time field and the cells in that body part would die within minutes from the POV of time passage within the field and virtually instantly from the POV outside.

As to whether or not the body part (or a banana) will rot takes a little more speculation and depends on the nature of the field. One thing for sure is that it would be very dark inside the field--if time is passing 100 times (to pick one number) more quickly, then there will be 100 times less light available inside the field (the number of photons entering the field per second from the outside is fixed, but there are 100 times more seconds on the inside than outside.) That in itself is enough to end the possibility of growing crops inside such a field (unless you surround it with extremely intense floodlights.) Also air would be diffusing 100 times more slowly into the field than diffusing out of the field (and traveling 100 times more quickly on the inside from the POV of the outside--would that make the interior of the field turn into a partial vacuum? I'm not sure.) The inside of the field would loose heat very rapidly from the outside POV, and the human body part or banana would most likely freeze solid before they had a chance to begin rotting.

Yes, it is really, really, really stupid science.

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  #172  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:33 AM
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It has a pleated aluminum dome over the saucer section.
Transparent aluminum, no doubt!
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  #173  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:40 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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...Yes, it is really, really, really stupid science.
You sound like you could use a salad.
  #174  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:42 AM
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Transparent aluminum, no doubt!
Now we are back to the "porthole for a ceiling" thing.
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  #175  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:45 AM
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Somehow I doubt they'll have Neil deGrasse Tyson or Michio Kaku consulting on the science. It's not the point, anyway...or perhaps it is the point, but in reverse.
  #176  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:46 AM
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Whch would make one wonder how 'eating' the seeds could be a good idea.
My Mother warned me about water melon seeds.
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  #177  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:50 AM
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1.) Yes, time is slowed down by movement and gravity, but there is nothing that we know of that speeds up time relative to the external universe.

2.) Even if it were possible to speed up time within an small field, sticking your hand (as in ST:TNG) or head (as in The Orville) into that accelerated time field would not make your hand or head age until it was elderly because your blood is being pumped from your heart still outside the field, so that all blood supply would effectively be cut off to that part of your body in the accelerated time field and the cells in that body part would die within minutes from the POV of time passage within the field and virtually instantly from the POV outside.

As to whether or not the body part (or a banana) will rot takes a little more speculation and depends on the nature of the field. One thing for sure is that it would be very dark inside the field--if time is passing 100 times (to pick one number) more quickly, then there will be 100 times less light available inside the field (the number of photons entering the field per second from the outside is fixed, but there are 100 times more seconds on the inside than outside.) That in itself is enough to end the possibility of growing crops inside such a field (unless you surround it with extremely intense floodlights.) Also air would be diffusing 100 times more slowly into the field than diffusing out of the field (and traveling 100 times more quickly on the inside from the POV of the outside--would that make the interior of the field turn into a partial vacuum? I'm not sure.) The inside of the field would loose heat very rapidly from the outside POV, and the human body part or banana would most likely freeze solid before they had a chance to begin rotting.

Yes, it is really, really, really stupid science.
Interesting post. But since the flow of time is not uniform across the Universe, I'd say it's more a matter of making things inside a pocket age less slowly than in the surrounding environment, which to my mind is not quite the same as "speeding up" time. There are no absolutes in the external Universe, so there are undoubtedly regions where time does flow faster than it does for you and me here on Earth. What they did on Orville was to create these conditions artificially.

As to how this might affect conditions inside the bubble, I haven't really given it much thought. However, time travel does require the traveler's arrow of time to continue in the same direction (and at the same rate) inside the field as outside it, regardless of whether he's going into the past or the future. Otherwise, he would age abnormally or be rejuvenated, depending on his destination.
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  #178  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:52 AM
terentii terentii is offline
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My Mother warned me about water melon seeds.
Spit or swallow!
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  #179  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:55 AM
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Somehow I doubt they'll have Neil deGrasse Tyson or Michio Kaku consulting on the science. It's not the point, anyway...or perhaps it is the point, but in reverse.
Which is why it's called science fiction.
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  #180  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:58 AM
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You sound like you could use a salad.
I predict this will become the new "Settle down, Beavis!"
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  #181  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:09 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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There are no absolutes in the external Universe, so there are undoubtedly regions where time does flow faster than it does for you and me here on Earth.
Time dilation only becomes significant at very high speeds or very high gravity. We on Earth are very close to as light and slow as we can possibly be--there is far, far more room to be faster and heavier than the conditions that we experience than there is to be slower and lighter. So while there are things in the universe that experience time moving more quickly than we do, it is by amounts so tiny that it would take a very precise atomic clock to measure them--think a difference of one second every so many million years.
  #182  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:10 AM
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I was wondering about the redwood tree aging one hundred years. I thought it took them a lot longer than that to grow as big as that tree was. (On the other hand, there was no explanation of how the tree got enough nutrients, water and sunlight to grow, so perhaps I shouldn't think about it too much.)
  #183  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:46 AM
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I was wondering about the redwood tree aging one hundred years. I thought it took them a lot longer than that to grow as big as that tree was. (On the other hand, there was no explanation of how the tree got enough nutrients, water and sunlight to grow, so perhaps I shouldn't think about it too much.)
It has been mentioned upthread that they did explain that. In the scene where they got the redwood seeds, the scientist states they have combined the redwood with tardigrade DNA so that it could survive in space with no nutrients. Yes, impossible science, but it was explained.
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  #184  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:56 AM
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All in all, I enjoyed it immensely. When I see low-level sci-fi like this, I don't care if the science is possible, all I care for is if the show is internally consistent. This show was. Yeah, looking back you can see Chekhov's redwood seeds, and Chekhov's super strong, but really sweet, head of security. But it was internally consistent. Like others have said, they will have to tweak the humor/serious ratio, and get the pacing down. But I do see the potential.

There was one scene that bothered me. While "hugging the donkey" both of the helmsmen look back at the second officer and talk to him, while on the screen the ship is still rotating around the larger ship. If it was such a difficult maneuver, you would think that one of them would actually have to be driving. I don't know if it was an attempt at humor, or just poor post-production work, or poor direction, but it really stuck out for a show that had that good cinematography.
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  #185  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:03 AM
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The show seems to be doing well with viewers but terribly with critics. Some have "meh" reactions while others hate it. What's going on??
Critics are stuffy assholes with sticks up their assess who are too impressed by their own opinions.

They hate about 75% of things I love. Yet viewers of, whatever, seem to love about 75% of things I also love. So I never pay attention to the "critics".

That being said.

I liked the show more than I thought I would. I thought Seth would do his Family Guy over the top humor but he toned it down and kept it appropriate for the show.

I thought it was well done and can only get better from here. So I'm hoping it does. It's already one of my must watch shows this season.
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  #186  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:12 AM
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This may have already been asked and answered, but any idea when Fox will make it available "On Demand"? I tried to pull it up last night on my U-verse On Demand and it was not listed yet. Usually stuff will show up under On Demand a day or two after it airs, but that is probably up to each network.
  #187  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:35 AM
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We on Earth are very close to as light and slow as we can possibly be--there is far, far more room to be faster and heavier than the conditions that we experience than there is to be slower and lighter.
Good point.
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  #188  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:04 PM
Kamino Neko Kamino Neko is offline
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This may have already been asked and answered, but any idea when Fox will make it available "On Demand"? I tried to pull it up last night on my U-verse On Demand and it was not listed yet. Usually stuff will show up under On Demand a day or two after it airs, but that is probably up to each network.
It's being reaired Tuesday (apparently, they forsaw the game running long and prepared for the fact some or all of it would be preempted), so it'll probably go up after that.
  #189  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:13 PM
Drunky Smurf Drunky Smurf is offline
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This may have already been asked and answered, but any idea when Fox will make it available "On Demand"? I tried to pull it up last night on my U-verse On Demand and it was not listed yet. Usually stuff will show up under On Demand a day or two after it airs, but that is probably up to each network.
I watched it On Demand on Cox last night. I also noticed they reran it my local time at 9PM on Fox last night.
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  #190  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:21 PM
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I was wondering about the redwood tree aging one hundred years. I thought it took them a lot longer than that to grow as big as that tree was. (On the other hand, there was no explanation of how the tree got enough nutrients, water and sunlight to grow, so perhaps I shouldn't think about it too much.)
"Coast redwoods may put on six, eight or even more feet of height in a single season whereas the giant sequoia is more likely to grow about two feet in height per year throughout its first fifty to one hundred years."
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  #191  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:51 PM
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OK, but which type of redwood tree did they portray in the show?
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:55 PM
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Haven't read the thread, but I caught the re-broadcast of the pilot last night. It entertained me enough that I set the DVR to record it for however long it lasts.
I think it tries a little to hard to "not be Star Trek" while blatantly stealing everything possible from Star Trek. The general arrangement of the bridge/helm set, quantum (not warp!) drive, shields that aren't called shields,
a "Worf" type character, a robot character, a Kirk wannabe who is totally gonna hook up with Executive Officer of SHIELD, Mockingbird.

Also not sure about an hour time slot for a show like this. Seems like an awfully long time to fill every week with somewhat comic sci-fi. A half hour might work better.
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Last edited by Oakminster; 09-13-2017 at 12:55 PM.
  #193  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:04 PM
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OK, but which type of redwood tree did they portray in the show?
The Sequoia and Sequoiadendron are the ones that grow exceptionally large, so 1' - 2' a year, 200 feet. I don't know how large the Bad Guys ship is; apparently considerably less than 200' in height.


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  #194  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:23 PM
PlumBob PlumBob is offline
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I liked the 2 out of three engines being out of commission, good thing they had an extra.

Looking forward to seeing the Orville's sister ship...
  #195  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:29 PM
Shoeless Shoeless is offline
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I watched it On Demand on Cox last night. I also noticed they reran it my local time at 9PM on Fox last night.
Thanks, I'll look for it again in the next day or two. I didn't think anything was on the major networks last night except the hurricane relief thing.
  #196  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:42 PM
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1.) Yes, time is slowed down by movement and gravity, but there is nothing that we know of that speeds up time relative to the external universe.

2.) Even if it were possible to speed up time within an small field, sticking your hand (as in ST:TNG) or head (as in The Orville) into that accelerated time field would not make your hand or head age until it was elderly because your blood is being pumped from your heart still outside the field, so that all blood supply would effectively be cut off to that part of your body in the accelerated time field and the cells in that body part would die within minutes from the POV of time passage within the field and virtually instantly from the POV outside.

As to whether or not the body part (or a banana) will rot takes a little more speculation and depends on the nature of the field. One thing for sure is that it would be very dark inside the field--if time is passing 100 times (to pick one number) more quickly, then there will be 100 times less light available inside the field (the number of photons entering the field per second from the outside is fixed, but there are 100 times more seconds on the inside than outside.) That in itself is enough to end the possibility of growing crops inside such a field (unless you surround it with extremely intense floodlights.) Also air would be diffusing 100 times more slowly into the field than diffusing out of the field (and traveling 100 times more quickly on the inside from the POV of the outside--would that make the interior of the field turn into a partial vacuum? I'm not sure.) The inside of the field would loose heat very rapidly from the outside POV, and the human body part or banana would most likely freeze solid before they had a chance to begin rotting.

Yes, it is really, really, really stupid science.
I know that Larry Niven did a time bubble death scene that was very similar to this one in one of the "Long ARM of Gil Hamilton" stories. Generally he's not know for writing really, really stupid science, although he does occasionally admit to being wrong (about whether Ringworlds are stable and, somewhat more embarrassingly, about what direction you'd want to teleport if you want to extend your birthday as much as possible). But I don't think Niven's time bubble was quite as accelerated -- maybe it was a 30:1 ratio?
  #197  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:57 PM
erysichthon erysichthon is offline
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I think it tries a little to hard to "not be Star Trek" while blatantly stealing everything possible from Star Trek. The general arrangement of the bridge/helm set, quantum (not warp!) drive, shields that aren't called shields,
a "Worf" type character, a robot character, a Kirk wannabe who is totally gonna hook up with Executive Officer of SHIELD, Mockingbird.
One of the reviews described it as "Star Trek with the serial numbers filed off," which I thought was apt.

Although I found the pilot mildly entertaining, I'm baffled that this show exists at all. I have the sense that McFarlane really, really, really wanted to be in Star Trek, so he made his own copy of it. It's essentially fan fiction and cosplaying on a big-budget scale. Why not do something original instead?

I'm not a big fan of McFarlane's humor or his acting style. Most of the gags seemed pretty lame to me. I liked everyone in the cast except him.

I'll probably watch a couple more episodes and see where it goes, but I'm not feeling optimistic.
  #198  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:04 PM
Kamino Neko Kamino Neko is offline
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I have the sense that McFarlane really, really, really wanted to be in Star Trek
He's actually already been on Star Trek. He had a minor role on Enterprise, Ensign Rivers, who appeared in the episodes The Forgotten and Affliction.
  #199  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:11 PM
erysichthon erysichthon is offline
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He's actually already been on Star Trek. He had a minor role on Enterprise, Ensign Rivers, who appeared in the episodes The Forgotten and Affliction.
Evidently being an ensign wasn't enough for him.
  #200  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:21 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is online now
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He had a minor role on Enterprise, Ensign Rivers,
"Captain, can we talk?"
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