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Old 05-21-2019, 01:23 AM
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Teams that are allowed to keep their city names but are farthest away from that city?


I think the most blatant example are the San Francisco 49ers moving 50 miles south of San Francisco to a city right next to San Jose, with about 2-3 times the population of San Fran, yet the Niners retain their “San Francisco” heritage.

I hate to say this as I’m no fan of franchise chess, but since San Francisco didn’t at least land a stadium at least within moonshot of the city doesn’t the franchise at least owe it to Santa Clara to name the team the California, Golden Bay or Bay Area 49ers???? Or out of deference to one of the largest cities in America the next row over, the San Jose 49ers??????

This issue came up with the New York Giants and Jets playing in a stadium in New Jersey, but Met Life Stadium and it’s earlier counterpart were 5 miles from Manhattan. Many New Jersey politicians were not happy that the two teams were taking NJ tax breaks but still naming themselves “New York”.

Finally there the Angels. Originally the Los Angeles Angels playing out of Dodger Stadium, they finally got their own abobe in Anaheim and became the California Angels, then the Anaheim Angels, and are now the Los Angeles Angels once again: despite being about 20 miles outside Los Angeles city limits, or even on LA county!

I know for a fact the city of Anaheim was not happy with the name change either, just like the state of NJ.


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Old 05-21-2019, 02:31 AM
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For 30 years, the Detroit Pistons played their home games at The Palace of Auburn Hills, 30 miles north of Detroit.

In 1973-74, the NY Giants played their home games in New Haven, CT, some 80 miles from their previous home of Yankee Stadium.
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:04 AM
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This thread belongs in The Game Room.

That said, didn't the Cleveland Cavaliers used to play in an arena that was actually closer to Akron than it was to Cleveland?
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:54 AM
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doesn’t the franchise at least owe it to Santa Clara
They would owe it had Santa Clara successfully negotiated it in the contract. That’s how Miami got the Marlins to change their name.
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I know for a fact the city of Anaheim was not happy with the name change either, just like the state of NJ.
The city of Anaheim had a contract, but they failed to write it specifically enough to stop the name change.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:01 AM
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List of MLB stadiums. Most MLB teams that are named for cities play their home games inside the city limits. Other than those mentioned already, SunTrust Park is about 10 miles from downtown Atlanta but only one or two miles outside the city limits.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:36 AM
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Are the New England Patriots just playing it safe?

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Old 05-21-2019, 06:52 AM
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Are the New England Patriots just playing it safe?
When they moved from Boston to Foxboro they wanted to change the name to the Bay State Patriots but the NFL rejected that. They settled on New England instead.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:54 AM
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According to Google, it is just over 20 miles from Dallas to Arlington, where the Cowboys play.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:08 AM
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This issue came up with the New York Giants and Jets playing in a stadium in New Jersey, but Met Life Stadium and its earlier counterpart were 5 miles from Manhattan. Many New Jersey politicians were not happy that the two teams were taking NJ tax breaks but still naming themselves New York.
Also the reverse: The NY Mayor at the time (Ed Koch, IIRC) was such a dick about it that he didn't let the 80s Giants teams have a parade when they won their Superbowls. They ended up just having what amounted to a party in Giants Stadium.

That made the 2007 parade particularly satisfying.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:23 AM
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Finally there the Angels. Originally the Los Angeles Angels playing out of Dodger Stadium, they finally got their own abobe in Anaheim and became the California Angels, then the Anaheim Angels, and are now the Los Angeles Angels once again: despite being about 20 miles outside Los Angeles city limits, or even on LA county!
Ahem, they are officially the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim although that has been rarely used in the last couple years.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:03 AM
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Ahem, they are officially the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim although that has been rarely used in the last couple years.
It is not actually super clear if that is still the team's official name. While they have never formally changed it so far as I can tell, all "of Anaheim" branding has been dropped. The team's legal name is simply "Angels Baseball LLC" and the official MLB style guides call them just "Los Angeles Angels."

Of course, the other misnamed team is, I guess, the Tampa Bay Rays, who are not in fact located in Tampa Bay, which is a body of water.

I can think of two misnamed NHL teams and one that used to be:

The Ottawa Senators used to play outside Ottawa in the city of Kanata. They still play in Kanata, but it was merged with Ottawa in 2001.

The Phoenix Coyotes are in Glendale, not Phoenix.

The Vegas Golden Knights are technically not in Las Vegas; they are in Paradise, an unincorporated part of Clark County.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:04 AM
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Granted they're eventually going to move closer to Tampa (Ybor City), but the Tampa Bay Rays play in St. Pete which is a handful of miles away from the city limits

Edit: Ha. Ninja'd by RickJay
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:09 AM
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The Dallas Cowboys play in Arlington, which is about 19 miles from downtown Dallas, and they practice in Frisco, which is about 32 miles from downtown Dallas, and more strangely, is about 35 miles from AT&T Stadium where they play.

You don't even drive through Dallas to go between them....
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:09 AM
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I'm not sure what the OP is all upset about. If a team plays in Santa Clarita, but insists on calling itself Throatwobbler Mangrove, who are we to complain?
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:13 AM
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That said, didn't the Cleveland Cavaliers used to play in an arena that was actually closer to Akron than it was to Cleveland?
It was about 20 miles from both Cleveland and Akron. But yeah, in the same county as Akron and for the people coming from Cleveland it must have seemed like going to Iowa.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:31 AM
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I assume that temporary moves aren't under consideration? Otherwise the Chicago Bears played in Champaign, IL for a season. The distance between the two stadiums is 138 miles according to Google.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:47 AM
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The Phoenix Coyotes are in Glendale, not Phoenix.
They've been the Arizona Coyotes since 2014, but you are correct from 2003-2014.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:06 AM
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It is not actually super clear if that is still the team's official name. While they have never formally changed it so far as I can tell, all "of Anaheim" branding has been dropped. The team's legal name is simply "Angels Baseball LLC" and the official MLB style guides call them just "Los Angeles Angels."
This is probably outside the scope of this thread, because you're getting close to questions about the nature of reality. If the Baltimore Ravens can "officially" be considered a new franchise instead of a relocated Cleveland Browns, then a team's official name can be "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim," even if that name is never actually used in any context.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:10 AM
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here's what Wikipedia has to say about it --

Quote:
In 2013, the team was to officially drop "of Anaheim" from its name, as part of a new Angel Stadium lease negotiated with the Anaheim city government.[8][9][10][11] The deal was never finalized, though as of 2019, most official sources omit the "of Anaheim" suffix and the official MLB Style Guide has referred to the team as simply the Los Angeles Angels since the 2016 season.[12][13][14][15]
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:24 AM
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This is probably outside the scope of this thread, because you're getting close to questions about the nature of reality. If the Baltimore Ravens can "officially" be considered a new franchise instead of a relocated Cleveland Browns, then a team's official name can be "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim," even if that name is never actually used in any context.
That's a good point. For a long time MLB maintained the fiction that the Minnesota Twins had nothing to do with the old Washington Senators, despite a curiously large number of 1960 Senators being 1961 Twins. It's all nomenclature.
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:54 PM
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On the other side of the coin we have the Green Bay Packers. Lambeau Stadium was actually located in the town of Ashwaubenon, adjacent to and across the street from Green Bay. The cities later re-drew the borders and now Green Bays border juts out and around Lambeau Field.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:16 PM
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New Orleans hornets/pelicans spent 2 seasons in OK city due to Hurricane Katrina .
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:27 PM
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The Vegas Golden Knights are technically not in Las Vegas; they are in Paradise, an unincorporated part of Clark County.
And when they finish the stadium, the Raiders will also play out of Paradise.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:31 PM
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On the other side of the coin we have the Green Bay Packers. Lambeau Stadium was actually located in the town of Ashwaubenon, adjacent to and across the street from Green Bay. The cities later re-drew the borders and now Green Bays border juts out and around Lambeau Field.
My understanding (I looked up this very thing earlier today, inspired by this thread) is that, when the Packers selected that plot of land for City Stadium (later renamed Lambeau Field) in the 1950s, Ashwaubenon was unincorporated, and the city of Green Bay was able to annex the land.

What I don't know (and what a few minutes of googling isn't delivering) is when that annexation actually happened; in other words, it's not clear if City Stadium / Lambeau Field was ever actually located outside of the city of Green Bay, or if the annexation occurred before the stadium opened.

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Old 05-21-2019, 04:40 PM
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But it should be pointed out that for a while the Packers played some games in Milwaukee, ~115 miles away.

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Old 05-21-2019, 04:44 PM
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RickJay:

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For a long time MLB maintained the fiction that the Minnesota Twins had nothing to do with the old Washington Senators
Really? My baseball awareness begins in the late 1970s, but I'd never heard this, unless it was specifically during the time period that the second Senators team was playing in Washington (before becoming the Texas Rangers).

I'm pretty certain that the officially-sanctioned fiction of franchise history being left behind when a team moves started with the Browns-Ravens change/move.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:49 PM
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I think the most blatant example are the San Francisco 49ers moving 50 miles south of San Francisco to a city right next to San Jose, with about 2-3 times the population of San Fran, yet the Niners retain their San Francisco heritage.
Nitpick - the current population estimate for San Francisco is 884,000; San Jose is 1,043,000. Bigger, but not 2-3 times. Santa Clara barely breaks 100,000.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:05 PM
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But it should be pointed out that for a while the Packers played some games in Milwaukee, ~115 miles away.
For most of the team's history, in fact.

The Packers were playing at least occasional games in Milwaukee from 1934 to 1952; when Milwaukee County Stadium opened in 1953, the Packers then played between two and four home games per year there until 1994. (If Wikipedia is correct, part of the reason for the building of County Stadium was in hopes of luring the Packers to play there full-time.)

In the 1990s, with County Stadium aging, and with Lambeau Field having been expanded and refit with luxury boxes, the Packers finally moved their Milwaukee games back to Green Bay. At that time, I remember reading estimates that each game played in Milwaukee cost the Packers roughly $1 million in lost revenue, compared to what they would have made from playing that same game at Lambeau.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:23 PM
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The Vegas Golden Knights are technically not in Las Vegas; they are in Paradise, an unincorporated part of Clark County.
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And when they finish the stadium, the Raiders will also play out of Paradise.
But does anybody even in Clark County ever refer to that area as "Paradise"? To the best of my knowledge, there's no local group or organization mounting a publicity campaign reminding people that the Strip, airport, and UNLV are really in Paradise. Everybody considers it part of Las Vegas.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:40 PM
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And when they finish the stadium, the Raiders will also play out of Paradise.
I'm not the OP, but I think these examples are just nitpickery. I mean, you can almost throw a stone from the Las Vegas Strip and hit the arena where the hockey team plays. When I read the OP, I was thinking we would get examples like he/she posted where a team was significantly outside of its named city, not just where a team built a stadium that was technically outside the city limits because that is where the best land could be found.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:34 PM
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... When Milwaukee County Stadium opened in 1953, the Packers then played between two and four home games per year there until 1994.
I was rolling my eyes about growing up in Milwaukee (which was pretty boring in the 50s/60s ... it got better). Daughter's fiance yelled "Are you KIDDING? You got to watch THE Milwaukee Braves and the Vince Lombardi/Bart Starr Packers!" He had a point...

Back on topic, I think the team's name should reflect their fans. Are all your fans from NYC? Ok, you're the New York Newbies. Ashwaubenon? Ok, Ashwaubenon Aardvarks.

I do like the name New England Patriots, and I'd hope Vermonters and Connecticutters (?) could also claim the team as their own. (Waiting for a Maine farmer to proclaim "Waaal, don' reckon how ah take much to that pretty-boy QB an' his dirty coach. So we're givin' the team back to Beantown.")

Not sure about Golden State Warriors. The entire state, really? And a state as diverse as CA?
Why weren't they named the Bay Area Warriors?
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:20 PM
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Not sure about Golden State Warriors. The entire state, really? And a state as diverse as CA?
Why weren't they named the Bay Area Warriors?
They were the San Francisco Warriors until 1971 when they moved mostly to Oakland, but also played 6 games in San Diego.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:43 PM
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It was about 20 miles from both Cleveland and Akron. But yeah, in the same county as Akron and for the people coming from Cleveland it must have seemed like going to Iowa.
Yep....The Cleveland Coliseum. Built in a huge empty field and long since razed to the ground, as if it had never been there. Weird.

The opening performance there was a Frank Sinatra concert, to which my parents took me. At the time I thought it was hopelessly square, but Im sure glad I got to hear the guy live once. Also attended my first ever arena rock concert there. Jethro Tull in....1974, I think?

The Coliseum was great news for the Country Maid ice cream stand. Im happy theyve survived the closing. Really, REALLY good ice cream.

http://countrymaidicecream.com/
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:44 PM
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The Detroit Lions played 25 miles away in the Pontiac Silverdome for 25 years.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:56 PM
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In addition to the already mentioned SF 49ers (50 miles), Dallas Cowboys (20 miles), and NY Giants/Jets (~5 miles), other NFL teams outside their city include:

- Los Angeles Chargers (currently playing in Carson, just outside LA county limits, but about 15 miles from downtown LA)
- Washington Redskins (play in Landover, Maryland, 10 miles from D.C.)
- Buffalo Bills (play in Orchard Park, 10 miles from downtown Buffalo)
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:09 AM
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Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game for the Philadelphia Warriors took place in Hershey PA, 94.5 miles from Philadelphia. This was not a permanent location though, the Warriors played most of their games at the Philadelphia Arena under the Philadelphia name.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:11 AM
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Not quite what the OP is talking about, but most F1 teams are based in Britain, despite their country of origin. Or country of ownership.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:18 AM
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But does anybody even in Clark County ever refer to that area as "Paradise"? To the best of my knowledge, there's no local group or organization mounting a publicity campaign reminding people that the Strip, airport, and UNLV are really in Paradise. Everybody considers it part of Las Vegas.
Including the post office. I worked in Paradise for a few years, and the office mailing address was (and still is) Las Vegas. If you really wanted to, I guess you could argue that the Golden Knights (and soon the Raiders) play in Paradise. I don't think you could argue that they don't play in Las Vegas.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:09 AM
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That's a good point. For a long time MLB maintained the fiction that the Minnesota Twins had nothing to do with the old Washington Senators, despite a curiously large number of 1960 Senators being 1961 Twins. It's all nomenclature.
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RickJay:



Really? My baseball awareness begins in the late 1970s, but I'd never heard this, unless it was specifically during the time period that the second Senators team was playing in Washington (before becoming the Texas Rangers).

I'm pretty certain that the officially-sanctioned fiction of franchise history being left behind when a team moves started with the Browns-Ravens change/move.
As an aside, I believe that the Texas Rangers still control the Washington Senators-related trademarks. The issue came up when the Montreal Expos moved to Washington.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:15 AM
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The thing is, everybody in DC knew the Twins were the former Senators no matter what MLB might say, and if you were an old Senators fan you were a Twins fan. OTOH when the new Senators left town everyone knew they became the Rangers, but everyone was happy to see them go. A notoriously bad team replaced by an even worse team was not going to leave a lot of good memories.

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Old 05-22-2019, 08:23 AM
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:58 AM
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But does anybody even in Clark County ever refer to that area as "Paradise"? To the best of my knowledge, there's no local group or organization mounting a publicity campaign reminding people that the Strip, airport, and UNLV are really in Paradise. Everybody considers it part of Las Vegas.
No one calls it that in most contexts; there's no point. Nonetheless, technically, it's not Las Vegas. Almost none of the Strip is in Vegas; the line intersects the Strip at East Sahara, just south of the Stratosphere.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:05 AM
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I was rolling my eyes about growing up in Milwaukee (which was pretty boring in the 50s/60s ... it got better). Daughter's fiance yelled "Are you KIDDING? You got to watch THE Milwaukee Braves and the Vince Lombardi/Bart Starr Packers!" He had a point...
The Braves moving from Milwaukee to Atlanta was a really bad thing for baseball. There was really no good reason to do it; the franchise was successful in Milwaukee, and while attendance was declining in the 1960s it would have come back up. Had they not moved, Atlanta would unquestionably have gotten its own team, probably in 1969, and Bud Selig would not have had the opportunity to move a team to Milwaukee and we would have been spared that asshole.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:31 AM
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When they moved from Boston to Foxboro they wanted to change the name to the Bay State Patriots but the NFL rejected that. They settled on New England instead.
Owner Billy Sullivan was so enraged by the palm-greasing demands of Boston pols that he took the city's name off the team. Bob Kraft faced the same issue when trying to build the team's new stadium along the Southeast Expressway. The Foxboro pols are happy, though.

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Granted they're eventually going to move closer to Tampa (Ybor City), but the Tampa Bay Rays play in St. Pete which is a handful of miles away from the city limits
That plan, like so many others, has fallen through. The Rays now have nothing going on for relocation.

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New Orleans hornets/pelicans spent 2 seasons in OK city due to Hurricane Katrina .
And the Saints played in San Antonio.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:53 AM
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I believe the Chicago White Sox played some home games in Milwaukee post-Braves and pre-Brewers.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
I'm not the OP, but I think these examples are just nitpickery. I mean, you can almost throw a stone from the Las Vegas Strip and hit the arena where the hockey team plays. When I read the OP, I was thinking we would get examples like he/she posted where a team was significantly outside of its named city, not just where a team built a stadium that was technically outside the city limits because that is where the best land could be found.
The strip is in Paradise. Indeed, that's the whole point to "Paradise."

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_Nevada
  #47  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:57 AM
LoneRhino is online now
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
That's a good point. For a long time MLB maintained the fiction that the Minnesota Twins had nothing to do with the old Washington Senators, despite a curiously large number of 1960 Senators being 1961 Twins. It's all nomenclature.
I remember noticing this when I was a kid in the late 70's. The teams that kept the same name when they moved (Dodgers, Giants, Braves, A's) were considered a continued history. The teams that changed their names (Senators I & II, Browns, Pilots) were considered different franchises. I don't know if this was official or not.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by russian heel View Post
I think the most blatant example are the San Francisco 49ers moving 50 miles south of San Francisco to a city right next to San Jose...
Yea, but they want people to know where they are located. I guarantee you more than 50% of people on the East Coast could not tell you where San Jose is.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:08 PM
Ludovic is offline
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Nor how to get there.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:13 PM
zimaane is offline
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Washington Redskins (play in Landover, Maryland, 10 miles from D.C.)
And the Redskins spring training facility is in Richmond VA, 100 miles south of downtown Washington.
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