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  #501  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:06 PM
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My 2 cents: Robert Baratheon, and then Renly, claimed to be King of the Seven Kingdoms. When the North rose up under Robb Stark, they made a point that they didn't want to be ruled by some southerner. They would choose a king who lived there, not someone who exerted influence from afar. Therefore, the King in the North.
No, the title was King in the North even before the coming of the Targaryens.
  #502  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:15 PM
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as someone mentioned how is Sam a maester? He did not complete his studies from what we know. Or maybe I am forgetting a scene where he mentions finishing the studies.
Dany said something about rewarding him for curing Jorah of the grayscale thing, so perhaps making him a full-fledged maester was his reward. (Sort of like a battlefield commission.)
  #503  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:17 PM
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My 2 cents: Robert Baratheon, and then Renly, claimed to be King of the Seven Kingdoms. When the North rose up under Robb Stark, they made a point that they didn't want to be ruled by some southerner. They would choose a king who lived there, not someone who exerted influence from afar. Therefore, the King in the North.
Yeah, that's the case that was made when Robb was made King. But the title is older than Robb. When he was made King, everyone spontaneously proclaimed him "King in the North!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTEn_nlHfnU
  #504  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:20 PM
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Dany said something about rewarding him for curing Jorah of the grayscale thing, so perhaps making him a full-fledged maester was his reward. (Sort of like a battlefield commission.)
The Ruler can do a lot of things, but I'm not sure they can grant a maestership arbitrarily. In fact, the Ruler doesn't even nominate the Grand Maester; he is appointed by the Citadel.
  #505  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:27 PM
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In the Small Council meeting at the end, Tyrion refers to him (and he refers to himself) as Archmaester*, and he is wearing a maester's robes and chain. Maybe he finished his degree through correspondence school.
He enrolled in CUNY's Life Experience Programs. Or CUKL or CUOT.

As I typed the above I realized nobody knows that CUNY stands for City University of New York. And that they have continuing education programs for adults called Life Experience Programs. And now I have explained too much and have spoiled what little joke there was.

Typed it, still posting it.
  #506  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:32 PM
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The Ruler can do a lot of things, but I'm not sure they can grant a maestership arbitrarily. In fact, the Ruler doesn't even nominate the Grand Maester; he is appointed by the Citadel.
But it's a new era. If Bran wants to change things, who is going to stop him? For that matter, if Bran is breaking the wheel, I think they should have done away with all the "King of the Andals and the First Men" stuff. Just declare him Bran the Broken, King of the Six Kingdoms. Not even "First of His Name", since there will be no more King Brans to follow.
  #507  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:47 PM
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But it's a new era. If Bran wants to change things, who is going to stop him?
Being a maester is a technical degree, issued by the Citadel, based on knowledge. If Bran did that, it would be devaluing the value of the position. It would be like declaring someone a MD who hadn't passed medical school. What would be the point? In any case, the ruler may be powerful but is not immune from political considerations. He's probably not going to want to alienate one of the more powerful organizations in Westeros.

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Not even "First of His Name", since there will be no more King Brans to follow.
Why not? Even if Bran can't have children, there's no reason why other noble families couldn't name sons after him, and one of them could eventually become King.

Bran himself doesn't seem to be particularly interested in breaking the wheel. The manner of choosing the king has been changed, but not much at all about Westeros institutions and society.

Last edited by Colibri; 05-21-2019 at 05:48 PM.
  #508  
Old 05-21-2019, 05:51 PM
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No, the title was King in the North even before the coming of the Targaryens.
My guess is that itís an admission of the reality that the North is too vast, ancient and wild for any human to be king OF it; the best one could be is king IN it.

Also, it sounds cooler.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:54 PM
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You're confusing the King of the North (of the Northern Kingdom) with the King-Beyond-The-Wall, which is a non-hereditary title held by whomever can unite most of the Wildlings in the area north of the wall. Mance Rayder was the last King-Beyond-The-Wall.

In fact, it does appear that Jon is abandoning his post at the Wall. But if at that point he actually is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch again he can command himself to do whatever he wants.
I think Jon was simply escorting the wildlings home. The last scene was intended to bookend the first scene of the series, in which we see men of the night's watch heading into the forest - where they meet the white walkers. That set off a series of events that led all the wildlings to flee the north beyond the wall. Now, after it's all over, the last thing we see in the show is the wildlings going home, escorted by Jon Snow.

Jon had no intention of abandoning Castle Black or leaving the watch. In his last scene with Arya, he told her to come visit him at Castle Black.

I can understand the confusion of watching Jon head North beyond the wall, but I'm pretty sure that's just another example of TV writers ignoring the confusion because they wanted that scene of the wildlings going home with Jon leading them. The fact that he doesn't really need to do that doesn't matter - it's all about that great visual at the end.
  #510  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:01 PM
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Was Ghost always missing an ear? He looked like Van Ghost!
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  #511  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:01 PM
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I think Jon was simply escorting the wildlings home. The last scene was intended to bookend the first scene of the series, in which we see men of the night's watch heading into the forest - where they meet the white walkers.
Could be. But when we watched it, our first question was Why do they keep the gates closed? They don't have any enemies to the north, and there's a big-ass hole in the wall a ways to the east.

I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner.
  #512  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:02 PM
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Was Ghost always missing an ear? He looked like Van Ghost!
Since after the fight at Winterfell, yes.
  #513  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:03 PM
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Could be. But when we watched it, our first question was Why do they keep the gates closed? They don't have any enemies to the north, and there's a big-ass hole in the wall a ways to the east.

I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner.
I think the wildling attacks kinda answer that.
  #514  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:06 PM
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I think the wildling attacks kinda answer that.
The only Wildlings I saw at Castle Black were manning the walls.
  #515  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:30 PM
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I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner.
To a True Northerner, there is no "the North". The people who call it that are just a bunch of filthy southerners.
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  #516  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:54 PM
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Could be. But when we watched it, our first question was Why do they keep the gates closed? They don't have any enemies to the north, and there's a big-ass hole in the wall a ways to the east.

I think the gate closing behind Jon is symbolic of him rejecting both the South and the North, becoming a True Northerner.
They kept the gate closed because that's what they are supposed to do. When people go through the wall they open the gate, then close it behind them. Nobody has told them to change their procedures, and they don't know what kings are planning, or what other events are going on. They don't have the authority to say, "Screw this - just leave the door open."

Game of Thrones has historically been such a rich show that we've come to believe that every scene has hidden meanings, that everything a character does, he or she does for some reason that will be made clear later. But, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. They needed Jon and a few other men of the black to lead the wildlings in order to get that bookending of scenes for poetic effect, so that's what they did. It really makes no sense for Jon Snow to violate his oath now, just because he'd rather live elsewhere. That would be totally against his character.
  #517  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:04 PM
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I think people are sort of overestimating how much stake these characters are implied to be putting in those vows. I think the viewers are supposed to get the message that the people who take these vows, whether they're Kingsguard, Maesters, Night's Watch men, etc, are imperfect humans who are in fact aware that they're not going to magically get their faces melted off if they transgress the vows.
  #518  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:12 PM
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If Varys was really trying to poison Dany that would have just made Cersei the winner. It's not like Jon would have had the support of the unsullied and dothraki, probably not Drogon either.
  #519  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:19 PM
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It really makes no sense for Jon Snow to violate his oath now, just because he'd rather live elsewhere. That would be totally against his character.
He ran away from Castle Black after Ned was killed. He hooked up with Wildling Lady, which may or may not have technically been a violation of his oath. He quit the Night's Watch, which was clearly a violation of the spirit of the oath. He killed his queen after bending the knee.

No, Jon did not merely want to live elsewhere--oath or not, he wanted nothing to do with everything south of the wall.
  #520  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:30 PM
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To a True Northerner, there is no "the North". The people who call it that are just a bunch of filthy southerners.
It's not the South!
  #521  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:15 PM
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Was Ghost always missing an ear? He looked like Van Ghost!
Ouch.

(Or according to Google Translate, "au" in Dutch.)
  #522  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:37 PM
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Btw, re: Dorne's place in the Seven Kingdoms. It was never formally a part of the Seven Kingdoms until much later (almost 200 years) after Aegon's conquest). Aegon I claimed it (as did his successors) but never conquered it and was independent until a marriage linked the two.
  #523  
Old 05-21-2019, 09:57 PM
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I think people are sort of overestimating how much stake these characters are implied to be putting in those vows. I think the viewers are supposed to get the message that the people who take these vows, whether they're Kingsguard, Maesters, Night's Watch men, etc, are imperfect humans who are in fact aware that they're not going to magically get their faces melted off if they transgress the vows.
As in medieval Europe, the vow of celibacy was honored largely in the breach, it's true. Grand Maester Pycelle, Kingsguards Jaime Lannister and Meryn Trant, the High Septon caught in Littlefinger's brothel, and the members of the Night's Watch who frequented the brothel in Mole's Town all routinely violated their vows. But that doesn't mean someone like Jon wouldn't feel bound by them.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:58 AM
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I really would have liked Bran to be revealed (only to the audience) to be an evil schemer that abused his powers. If he can see the future, that is a reasonable conclusion to make.

However, you'd still have to answer why he's evil, and that has not been established, not nearly to the degree of say, Dany. A hard knock life doesn't cut it. Corruption by magic and/or The Night King would have to be shown or have exposition, which in the very last episode would have been clunky.

Last edited by Ashtura; 05-22-2019 at 12:59 AM.
  #525  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:08 AM
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I'm pretty sure that's just another example of TV writers ignoring the confusion because they wanted that scene of the wildlings going home with Jon leading them. The fact that he doesn't really need to do that doesn't matter - it's all about that great visual at the end.
I think that it was deliberate so that the viewers could imagine the end they prefered to Jon's story.

For me, he's leaving the Night Watch.
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  #526  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:13 AM
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They kept the gate closed because that's what they are supposed to do.
They emphatized the closing of this gate by having the screen go black. I think it's intended to be meaningful.
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  #527  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:18 AM
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He quit the Night's Watch, which was clearly a violation of the spirit of the oath.
He didn't quit the night watch. His watch was ended. He died.

Also the night watch in effect needed much more support to fight the dead. Arguably he was still doing the Lord Commanders job at the Battle of Winterfell, and before that by getting a together a realistic defense to beat the dead which involved MUCH more people and potential dragons.
  #528  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:25 AM
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As in medieval Europe, the vow of celibacy was honored largely in the breach, it's true. Grand Maester Pycelle, Kingsguards Jaime Lannister and Meryn Trant, the High Septon caught in Littlefinger's brothel, and the members of the Night's Watch who frequented the brothel in Mole's Town all routinely violated their vows. But that doesn't mean someone like Jon wouldn't feel bound by them.
In the series, Sam continually pointed out that the vow was not of celibacy, but of marriage and having children.

"I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children."

So as long as you don't get them pregnant (so oral is possible) or marry them, you're good.
  #529  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:46 AM
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"I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children."

So as long as you don't get them pregnant (so oral is possible) or marry them, you're good.
Even then, you could argue that the ban is on recognized children.

So have as many Snows as you want.
  #530  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:00 AM
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I think that it was deliberate so that the viewers could imagine the end they prefered to Jon's story.

For me, he's leaving the Night Watch.
That's what it felt like to me. But really, he could do anything he wants.

He went to the Watch again because it was a compromise with Grey Worm which enabled a peaceful resolution to a tense situation. That's the Grey Worm who has now left the continent along with the sizable elite army which was making the situation tense.

It's the responsibility of the lord of the North to police desertion from the Night's Watch. But the North is now independent. Does it still have an obligation to King's Landing to perform this task? It might have some self interest in doing so in the general case - the Night's Watch consisting largely of rapists, thieves, murderers and others ne'erdowells, plus a smattering of ambitious third sons who never learned to play nicely. (In fact, really, how long before Sansa is reviewing this arrangement?). But in the specific case, if Jon wandered back to Winterfell, is Sansa going to execute him as deserter? Would word reach Grey Worm and would he really invade Westeros for Jon? I'm thinking no, doubtful and...maybe but probably not.

Certainly if he heads North with the freefolk, there is no way he suffers any repercussions. Sansa isn't chasing him up there, nor is Grey Worm. He has sworn an oath, but oaths can be flexible. If he spends most of his time on long ranging expeditions conducting liaison with Tormund and perhaps also any... less beardy redheads that might happen by, plus the occasional diplomatic excursion to Winterfell, he could technically be keeping his oath while living pretty much his best life.
  #531  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:22 AM
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Next season, Arya will eventually arrive at the wall, fresh from her adventures. She'll convince John to help fill her ship with settlers and sail back to the amazing new continent she's discovered.
  #532  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:55 AM
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Certainly if he heads North with the freefolk, there is no way he suffers any repercussions. Sansa isn't chasing him up there, nor is Grey Worm. He has sworn an oath, but oaths can be flexible. If he spends most of his time on long ranging expeditions conducting liaison with Tormund and perhaps also any... less beardy redheads that might happen by, plus the occasional diplomatic excursion to Winterfell, he could technically be keeping his oath while living pretty much his best life.
I've heard there are some very open-minded bears north of the wall.
  #533  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:22 AM
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It's the responsibility of the lord of the North to police desertion from the Night's Watch. But the North is now independent. Does it still have an obligation to King's Landing to perform this task? It might have some self interest in doing so in the general case - the Night's Watch consisting largely of rapists, thieves, murderers and others ne'erdowells, plus a smattering of ambitious third sons who never learned to play nicely. (In fact, really, how long before Sansa is reviewing this arrangement?).
The whole arrangement is much older than King's Landing.
The Seven Kingdoms have been united under the Iron Throne for less that 300 years. Presumably the North policed deserters from the NW for thousands of years before Aegon&Co showed up, why change that just because of a short 300 year kerfuffle down south ?
  #534  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:47 AM
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In the series, Sam continually pointed out that the vow was not of celibacy, but of marriage and having children.

"I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children."

So as long as you don't get them pregnant (so oral is possible) or marry them, you're good.
True. However, Sam has revealed that Gilly is pregnant with his own child. But it's not clear exactly what vow the maesters take. It won't be identical to that of the Night's Watch. (In any case, presumably King Bran has freed Sam of his Night's Watch vow anyway, which the ruler can do. Stannis offered to do it for Jon.)

It's true that everyone will turn a blind eye to the fact that the Grand Maester has a family tucked away somewhere in Kings Landing, just as they did to Pycelle's romps with prostitutes.

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Even then, you could argue that the ban is on recognized children.

So have as many Snows as you want.
Could be. With Catholic priests, the vow was so you would devote all your attention to the Church, rather than to supporting a family. With both the Night's Watch and the Maesters, it's presumably so you won't be inclined to get involved in political or dynastic struggles.

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The whole arrangement is much older than King's Landing.
The Seven Kingdoms have been united under the Iron Throne for less that 300 years. Presumably the North policed deserters from the NW for thousands of years before Aegon&Co showed up, why change that just because of a short 300 year kerfuffle down south ?
Bran the Builder, a Stark, built the Wall and established the Watch in the first place thousands of years ago. As I said before, there's no reason to suppose that the North won't continue to participate in and support the Night's Watch as a multinational force.
  #535  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:07 AM
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My head-canon says that after a few years of letting everything settle down, Bran is visited by a Red priestess, and lo, he can walk and fuck! A little spinal injury ought to be nothing for those who can raise the dead (that particular god willing.) Then one day he gets a dove (not a raven)-gram from Arya, who has discovered an entirely new continent of people she can steal the faces of. Sansa's rule of the North is wise and long, and when you mention Jon Snow to anybody, they get a puzzled expression on their face and say "Who?" Meanwhile, north of the Wall, Ghost has found a dire wolf female and raises a family, but not before ripping Jon's balls off for leaving him without so much as a pat on the head when he went south. Tormund fucks another bear.

Last edited by silenus; 05-22-2019 at 09:08 AM.
  #536  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:34 AM
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Being a maester is a technical degree, issued by the Citadel, based on knowledge. If Bran did that, it would be devaluing the value of the position. It would be like declaring someone a MD who hadn't passed medical school. What would be the point? In any case, the ruler may be powerful but is not immune from political considerations. He's probably not going to want to alienate one of the more powerful organizations in Westeros.


You mean, like giving someone an honorary PhD?
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:36 AM
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You mean, like giving someone an honorary PhD?
Universities do that, not politicians.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:37 AM
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Honorary PhDs aren't expected to actually use the degree. An MD (or Archmaestership) would be.
  #539  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:49 AM
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The John Hughes ending.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:55 AM
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The King could certainly try to pressure the Citadel to make someone a maester or appoint them Grand Maester, but what would be the point? They're not going to know any more. And Sam can sit on the Small Council whether he is Grand Maester or not; the King can create new positions if he wishes. The Citadel appoints the Grand Maester for King's Landing, and he automatically has a seat on the Small Council (he's the only member ex officio, and not appointed by the King) but he doesn't have to be invited to meetings. Pycelle was disinvited to attend Small Council meetings at one point.

Speaking of the Small Council, it is unclear why Bran needs a Master of Whisperers.
  #541  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:07 AM
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Speaking of the Small Council, it is unclear why Bran needs a Master of Whisperers.
It has been established that Bran doesn't know everything all at once. He has to be pointed in a particular direction. Someone likened it to having Google in your head. All the info is there but you gotta put in the search terms. He'll also still need a spy network since it has been shown that he knows shit but he doesn't do anything about it.
  #542  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:09 AM
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Speaking of the Small Council, it is unclear why Bran needs a Master of Whisperers.
It's unclear how his powers work, he might not have access to everything in the past. Perhaps his powers are limited to seeing things in Westeros or areas where the Children once lived.

The Master of Whisperers might also distill information, put it in different context, or curate things. Bran has other duties and doesn't have the wisdom, intelligence or experience to know what's important about all topics. Presidents generally don't look at raw intelligence, they get distilled finished products.
  #543  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:26 AM
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I'm just going to assume that enough time has passed before the small council scene for Sam to go back to the Citadel and finish his studies. At least, we're shown that enough time has passed for the Archmaester to write a book about everything that happened in the series, and he didn't have firsthand knowledge of any of it, so it took some time to collect the info before he could even write it, which is another slow undertaking. King Bran's influence might have been limited to saying to the Archmaester, "We know Sam dropped out and took some priceless stolen books with him, but he did play an instrumental part in saving humanity, so maybe you could give him another chance to be a maester?". Sam does have a chain in the small council scene, but it looks quite different from GM Pycelle's. Maybe he's got some sort of work-study program going on?
  #544  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:28 AM
KneadToKnow is online now
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Originally Posted by squeegee View Post
Davos: " 'Torgo Nudho'. Am I saying that right?"

Grey Worm: "Is pronounce, 'go fuck yourself, Onion Knight' "
Speaking of pronunciation, has anyone else ever pronounced Westeros the say Sansa does toward the end? That is to say, like a breakfast cereal?

"Mmmm, I love a balanced breakfast with Wester-Os!"
  #545  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:29 AM
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So can we all agree that Bran is the most evil person on the planet?

When he became the 3 Eyed Raven, he lost what it means to be human. But what he gained is an ability to understand, holistically, what humanity is about and what affects us for good and for ill. He becomes a master puppeteer that surpassed what even Littlefinger could dream of.

How? Well for starters, he beat Littlefinger at his own game. He took none of the credit for it. He didn't even have to wield the knife because he set the pieces in motion with his sisters.

Then with Littlefinger out of the way, he set his sights on a higher prize: The Throne.

Think about what he did for the entirety of Season 8. What were his scenes about? They were to tell Jon about his lineage. First he prodded Sam to tell Jon right before the huge fight with the Night King. He didn't say it himself, by the way, he got Sam to do his dirty work for him. Then he was the backup when Jon internally debated telling his sisters. More than an outside observer, he said, loud and clear to everyone gathered "it's your choice on whether to tell him," which all but eliminated Jon's choice in the matter. Again, Bran pulling the strings.

For what purpose was all this done? Jon's true parents were the single biggest mystery in the entirety of the series. And yet, once it was out there, what even became of it? Absolutely nothing. For Jon anyway. For Bran, who instigated the time and place and means of revealing this information, it served an extremely useful purpose: it sowed dissent between Dany and Jon.

That dissent led to distrust and that ultimately led to the burning of King's landing, the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents, the death of Dany, and the exile of the rightful king by order of succession. Did Bran kill hundreds of thousands by fire? No, of course not. But he pulled the strings to make it happen. And make no mistake, he knew it was going to happen. He set the events in motion to make it happen. He has heavily implied at several points this season that he knows the future, can predict the future, or is not at all surprised after surprising events have come to pass. He could have stopped it all. "Why do you think I came here?" he said in Kings Landing, knowing full well he'd be King. He could have stopped all this from happening. He didn't because this outcome was precisely what he wanted.

What did Tyrion and Bran talk about near the end of Episode 2? It's sad that even the writers don't really know. But whatever they talked about, it was enough that Bran convinced Tyrion to go to bat for him at the end of episode 6. Once again, Bran pulled the strings and came out of it with the Throne. He even "rewarded" Tyrion by making him the Hand of the King. Bran's keeping a useful idiot around. The entire continent now sees Tyrion as the defacto king because surely this stupid kid in a wheelchair who's never been south of Winterfell doesn't know shit about shit. Which is exactly what Bran wants.

I understand that the show doesn't present it this way. Doesn't even hint at Bran's true nature. But this is really the only conclusion that can be drawn from what's happened. Bran manipulated his family, decimated the North, and destroyed King's Landing, all to gain the throne. And it worked. And no one involved is any the wiser.
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  #546  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:51 AM
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The whole arrangement is much older than King's Landing.
The Seven Kingdoms have been united under the Iron Throne for less that 300 years. Presumably the North policed deserters from the NW for thousands of years before Aegon&Co showed up, why change that just because of a short 300 year kerfuffle down south ?
Sure. But also presumably it was in the North's interest to ensure a) that the men of the Night's Watch stuck to their duty and b) that they weren't overrun by bands of lawless deserters.

Now, the case for a) is limited. The White Walkers have been utterly defeated. Relationships with the Free Folk are friendly. They're unlikely to want to come south of the wall, but if they do and they do so peacefully, then no one really minds. It's just the raiding and pillaging that are the problem. So assume that relations continue to be good for the next 5-10 years - quite likely given that a) we know that the entire civilian population of the North could fit inside Winterfell's crypts meaning there's no-one to steal from, and b) Jon is an excellent diplomatic link between the Free Folk and the North if any disputes do arise. At some point, the value of having a Night's Watch becomes pretty limited. In fact, the more boring and negligible the job of the Watch, the more likely desertion and banditry become. Once the Watch ceases to be the shield that guards the realms of men and becomes simply a hive of scum and villainy, there's no particular reason for Sansa to let scummy villains traipse through her lands only to turn round in 6 months and start trouble out of boredom.

Happily, Arya will soon have discovered Westeros++, so Bran will have a new option for a penal colony. Rather like how after American Independence Britain simply transported its criminals to Australia instead.
  #547  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:55 AM
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Regarding the FreeFolk, remember that they're not one contiguous group. They're a bunch of clans brought together by Mance. And some of them are worse (like the cannibals) than others. Also, we're just assuming those are the last of the wildlings. I'm assuming that some survived north of the Wall just by staying hidden and out of the way of the White Walkers. And we don't know what other beasts and creatures might be lurking out there.

So there is still a need for some sort of border patrol, albeit one with much friendly relations with the Wildlings that will allow them to pass as needed. As far as the giant hole, you don't need a 700 foot tall ice wall to keep people at bay. They just need to build some sort of new fortification there
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:59 AM
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So can we all agree that Bran is the most evil person on the planet?
I agree with a lot in your post, but we should also consider the alternative futures that he may (or may not) have seen. Danaerys would probably have destroyed KL in any scenario (she was all hell bent to do it early season 7 already), and after that she remained a wildcard, having unsullieds, dothrakis and two dragons. She had to die for the sake of the people. Neither Jon nor Arya (the only two who might get the opportunity) would have reason to kill her before she turned KL to ashes, but they did afterwards - there may not have been any possible future scenario that lead to Dany's death without the destruction of KL. Would Jon be a better king than Bran? Doubtful. He means well, but he doesn't want it, knows nothing, and has shown bad judgement on several occasions. So Bran may have concluded that the future scenario he set in motion (as master puppeteer) was the best one for the people.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:23 AM
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Would Jon be a better king than Bran? Doubtful. He means well, but he doesn't want it, knows nothing, and has shown bad judgement on several occasions.
I see what you did there.
  #550  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:24 AM
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Heres a spinoff for the series... Drogon takes Danny to the north and somehow she is revived as the new Night King and she builds an army to destroy the south...
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