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  #1151  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:41 AM
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Thank you for the kind words.

But I think you're missing the difference in views here. It's not about wanting an echo chamber, or "obsequious sycophants", or some other desire to quash differing/opposing views -- it's about wanting honest and sincere debate and discussion (if we're talking about GD, Elections, and IMHO) without hate, misogyny, and bigotry.

The posters that generally get the most heat are failing to meet something in that phrase. IMO, HD is lacking the "honest and sincere debate" part (as well as occasional misogyny and bigotry). He often posts stuff he doesn't believe, or posts stuff just meant to tweak and insult rather than debate. I think WillF is lacking in the "debate" part (I think he's mostly honest and sincere, and I generally don't sense misogyny or bigotry from him, though he does appear to possess an awful lot of hatred for those he disagrees with, by my reading). He rarely actually makes arguments, preferring insults and potshots, by my reading. And so on. We welcome opposing viewpoints, when presented honestly with a sincere interest in debate and discussion, and without hatred/misogyny/bigotry.
The problem is that it appears like the complaints are in part motivated by bias. There many, many posts that donít add anything to a debate yet are completely ignored because the poster generally conforms to the prevalent ideology of the board. What happens with posters on the right is they are noticed precisely because they are a minority opinion and the poster and each post gets extra scrutiny. This extra scrutiny is part of a positive feedback cycle that amplifies awareness of subsequent posts.
  #1152  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:42 AM
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It wasnít the burger. It was the 27 minute wait. Surely, you can discern the difference?
Surely you can discern what he was getting at without the need for idiotic contradiction and nit-pickery.
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  #1153  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:45 AM
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The problem is that it appears like the complaints are in part motivated by bias. There many, many posts that don’t add anything to a debate yet are completely ignored because the poster generally conforms to the prevalent ideology of the board. What happens with posters on the right is they are noticed precisely because they are a minority opinion and the poster and each post gets extra scrutiny. This extra scrutiny is part of a positive feedback cycle that amplifies awareness of subsequent posts.
We're humans, and thus we'll never be able to perfectly avoid bias. It's entirely natural that obnoxious trolls who disagree with us are going to get on our nerves a lot more than obnoxious trolls who agree with us. Sure, we can try and fight that tendency, but that doesn't change human nature.

So rather than defend shitty posters that others are criticizing, why not call out shitty posters that you feel are "sinning" in the same way but aren't being criticized? Of course, you have your own biases, just like everyone else.

Sanctioning shitty posts and shitty posters helps the board, whether they're conservative or liberal or other.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-27-2019 at 10:45 AM.
  #1154  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:46 AM
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Surely you can discern what he was getting at without the need for idiotic contradiction and nit-pickery.
It was a dumb question then. Because who wouldnít be annoyed at a 27 minute wait at a so-called fast food restaurant? Next!
  #1155  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:46 AM
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It wasnít the burger. It was the 27 minute wait. Surely, you can discern the difference?
LOL, ok.

You need someone to tell you not to get upset or act rude simply because you had to wait 27 minutes?

Seems like you could figure that out on your own.

I bet if you list some other scenarios where you get upset or act rude, iiandyiiii can tell you not to do that. Think how much better your life will be?
  #1156  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:47 AM
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It was a dumb question then. Because who wouldnít be annoyed at a 27 minute wait at a so-called fast food restaurant? Next!
Surely you can see the difference between "annoyed" and "upset and rude"?
  #1157  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:50 AM
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It was a dumb question then. Because who wouldnít be annoyed at a 27 minute wait at a so-called fast food restaurant? Next!
Of course it's annoying to have to wait for 27 minutes for your food at a fast food joint. You've every right to be irritated.

The embarrassing part - I would think, and you would have to admit - is to have an anonymous stranger from a message board living in your head, telling you how to be a better human being. Because left to your own devices, you'd do what exactly?
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  #1158  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:55 AM
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LOL, ok.

You need someone to tell you not to get upset or act rude simply because you had to wait 27 minutes?

Seems like you could figure that out on your own.

I bet if you list some other scenarios where you get upset or act rude, iiandyiiii can tell you not to do that. Think how much better your life will be?
Hey! iiandyiiii, for the most part, is inspirational. Mostly good. Sorta evil. Now I have you in my head saying iiandyiiii shouldn't be in my head. Where will it ever end? I got my quotes messed up. It's QuickSilver in my head. I have only had one cup of coffee...

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Of course it's annoying to have to wait for 27 minutes for your food at a fast food joint. You've every right to be irritated.

The embarrassing part - I would think, and you would have to admit - is to have an anonymous stranger from a message board living in your head, telling you how to be a better human being. Because left to your own devices, you'd do what exactly?
Be a part of a WorldStar video.

Last edited by octopus; 09-27-2019 at 10:55 AM.
  #1159  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:57 AM
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I think Ditka does like to needle the libs a bit.
It's not "a bit" though, it's all he does. And he does it in a lot of threads, and they often fall apart because of his needling. It's unpleasant.

I'm very bad at remembering more then 30 seconds ago so you'll have to make due with my most recent memory of this -- in the Trump impeachment thread, Ditka has made no real effort at defending Trump's actions, he's made no effort at contributing to an evolving story, etc. To do so would be a losing proposition for him, and he knows it. Instead he finds things that he CAN win on, such as:

- Don't call it Treason, because Treason pretty much requires a declaration of war and an international enemy. Checkmate, libs!

- Don't call it a Transcript, because it says right there it's not a Transcript and so it's not a verbatim copy of the conversation. Checkmate, libs!

- Trump just wanted foreign corruption investigated. Isn't that a good thing? Why are you opposed to investigating corruption. Checkmate, libs!


And there are others, but there's a common theme --

1) It's a point that he can win,
2) It's a point that some other poster will fuck up on if he waits long enough. Someone else is going to come in and call it a Transcript, or they'll call it Treason, and then, boom! It's the Ditka show, he can win his point, good for him. Then he goes back into lying in wait.
3) It's a point that nobody really gives a shit about, and it contributes nothing to the discussion except to derail it.



It's just so... tiring, you know? Rinse, repeat, derail. But it's all within the rules! So clever! So yeah, it's a hard thing to define, and I hadn't heard of sealioning until just now, but if it requires overly broad instructions to get rid of it, I'm fine with it.
  #1160  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:58 AM
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I have only had one cup of coffee...
Well, there's your problem right there. Get Juan Valdez in your head, and you will be thankful.

Also, get this song in your head: One eight seven seven Kars 4 Kids
  #1161  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:03 AM
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Thank you for the kind words.

But I think you're missing the difference in views here. It's not about wanting an echo chamber, or "obsequious sycophants", or some other desire to quash differing/opposing views -- it's about wanting honest and sincere debate and discussion (if we're talking about GD, Elections, and IMHO) without hate, misogyny, and bigotry.
Thatís a noble goal but I donít think itís working on the SDMB.

1) We welcome debate as long as itís free of hate, misogyny, and bigotry.

2) Conservatism is rooted in hate, misogyny, and bigotry. (I see that repeated continually on this board without meaningful objections.)

The end result is that no, someone on the other side of the political aisle is not welcome on this board. The bias has poisoned things far too much. If you have left wing blinders on you canít see it.
  #1162  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:11 AM
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That’s a noble goal but I don’t think it’s working on the SDMB.



1) We welcome debate as long as it’s free of hate, misogyny, and bigotry.



2) Conservatism is rooted in hate, misogyny, and bigotry. (I see that repeated continually on this board without meaningful objections.)



The end result is that no, someone on the other side of the political aisle is not welcome on this board. The bias has poisoned things far too much. If you have left wing blinders on you can’t see it.
But 2 is not a position held by the majority of the board, or anything close, AFAICT. There are indeed lots of conservatives on this board that aren't regularly personally attacked and denigrated.
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  #1163  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:12 AM
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Thatís a noble goal but I donít think itís working on the SDMB.

1) We welcome debate as long as itís free of hate, misogyny, and bigotry.

2) Conservatism is rooted in hate, misogyny, and bigotry. (I see that repeated continually on this board without meaningful objections.)

The end result is that no, someone on the other side of the political aisle is not welcome on this board. The bias has poisoned things far too much. If you have left wing blinders on you canít see it.
Exactly. And when you can make up lies in the Pit about posters and call them all sorts of untrue nasty names, with even some of the nuttier mods "posting as posters" weighing in, it definitely leads to a very nasty feedback cycle. I got pitted on my 2nd or 3rd post and the whole situation was completely based on deliberate misinterpretations and lies. Then to top it off, the real offenders like to pretend to be some aggrieved victim.
  #1164  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:17 AM
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Ditka knowingly, and has admitted to, not reading sourced documents to which he is arguing against.

The funniest is when he asked in response to an argument based partly on an article about Trump's popularity:

"Who do you think Socially liberal, Fiscally Conservatives voted for in 2016"

... when the article itself was entitled: Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative Voters Preferred Trump In 2016.

The immortal exchange:

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Check the 538 article linked above. Certain People are always calling for a "socially liberal, fiscally conservative centrist independent" to break the two-party duopoly. Problem is that only like 15% of Americans are both socially liberal and fiscally conservative.
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Which candidate do you think those 15% supported in the last (Presidential) election?
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Trump. It says so in the article. Did you not read it? I mean, the headline itself says: "Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative Voters Preferred Trump In 2016"
  #1165  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:20 AM
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Also, get this song in your head: One eight seven seven Kars 4 Kids
Oh, fuck you! No seriously, burn in hell, manson1972.
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  #1166  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:32 AM
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Thatís a noble goal but I donít think itís working on the SDMB.

1) We welcome debate as long as itís free of hate, misogyny, and bigotry.

2) Conservatism is rooted in hate, misogyny, and bigotry. (I see that repeated continually on this board without meaningful objections.)

The end result is that no, someone on the other side of the political aisle is not welcome on this board. The bias has poisoned things far too much. If you have left wing blinders on you canít see it.
I think I saw this argument walking down the Yellow Brick Road with an anthropomorphic lion with emotional issues, a metallic android in need of a decent internal lubrication system, and a girl wearing a gingham dress and serious red kicks. And her little dog, too.

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  #1167  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:05 PM
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Surely you can see the difference between "annoyed" and "upset and rude"?
I'm pretty sure Annoyed is a trock; I've never seen a post by Upset And Rude tho.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 09-27-2019 at 12:06 PM.
  #1168  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:27 PM
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But 2 is not a position held by the majority of the board, or anything close, AFAICT. There are indeed lots of conservatives on this board that aren't regularly personally attacked and denigrated.
So why arenít people objecting to it when it comes up? Iím really glad Iím not on the right, I would probably not feel welcome at all.

Letís look at it another way. Letís say youíre a black man in a rural Southern town. You see a billboard declaring that black people are the spawn of the Devil and should be burned in hellfire. You sit in a cafe and the white waitress comes to take your order. You ask if they will even serve your kind in a place like that, she says that itís not a problem. You ask why they have a billboard with racist hate speech allowed to stand in town and she insists that the town is fine and not racist because most residents donít have that opinion.

You see where Iím coming from. If you allow bigots to go unremarked because theyíre on the ďcorrectĒ side you are endorsing their views through your silence. And frankly, I canít help but think you do share those views to an extent even if you try to convince yourself that youíre better than that.

I said before that as a moderate Iím okay with this board, and I meant it. I am a paid member and happy to be one. But Iím really glad Iím not one of the hateful, racist misogynistic demons who might vote Republican.
  #1169  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:32 PM
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So why aren’t people objecting to it when it comes up? I’m really glad I’m not on the right, I would probably not feel welcome at all.

Let’s look at it another way. Let’s say you’re a black man in a rural Southern town. You see a billboard declaring that black people are the spawn of the Devil and should be burned in hellfire. You sit in a cafe and the white waitress comes to take your order. You ask if they will even serve your kind in a place like that, she says that it’s not a problem. You ask why they have a billboard with racist hate speech allowed to stand in town and she insists that the town is fine and not racist because most residents don’t have that opinion.

You see where I’m coming from. If you allow bigots to go unremarked because they’re on the “correct” side you are endorsing their views through your silence. And frankly, I can’t help but think you do share those views to an extent even if you try to convince yourself that you’re better than that.

I said before that as a moderate I’m okay with this board, and I meant it. I am a paid member and happy to be one. But I’m really glad I’m not one of the hateful, racist misogynistic demons who might vote Republican.
We can all do better to call out bad behavior on our side in some cases. But in short, people are "objecting to it when it comes up". If you're talking about the thread I'm thinking of (don't recall the title, but a GD thread a few months back asking if any conservative principles are NOT based on bigotry/hatred/etc.), numerous (liberal/left) posters chimed in with tolerant and broad-minded defenses of conservatism in general and criticized posts that childishly lumped it altogether as fundamentally bigoted and hateful. Your hypothetical doesn't match, since there were plenty of posters publcly criticizing the simplistic denigration of conservatism.

So once again, I think your characterization of the board is false. Shitty and bigoted posts are usually called out, even when they're made on the "liberal" side.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-27-2019 at 12:33 PM.
  #1170  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:32 PM
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I don't see right leaning posters chastise other right leaning posters when they trot out insulting nonsense about the left.

We are not all moderators. We are not all responsible for policing everyone else. We present our own views, and everyone is responsible for themselves.
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  #1171  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:38 PM
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2) Conservatism is rooted in hate, misogyny, and bigotry. (I see that repeated continually on this board without meaningful objections.)

The end result is that no, someone on the other side of the political aisle is not welcome on this board. The bias has poisoned things far too much. If you have left wing blinders on you canít see it.
Conservatism is not inherently rooted in hate, misogyny and bigotry. Conservatism as it is currently practiced by its most prominent adherents is. It's perfectly possible to be a kind, fair-minded conservative; I have known such people. Sadly, those people have been being actively sidelined by their nastier brethren and accused of being RINOs and closet liberals.
  #1172  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:44 PM
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Also, get this song in your head: One eight seven seven Kars 4 Kids
That was diabolical.
  #1173  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:48 PM
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We can all do better to call out bad behavior on our side in some cases. But in short, people are "objecting to it when it comes up". If you're talking about the thread I'm thinking of (don't recall the title, but a GD thread a few months back asking if any conservative principles are NOT based on bigotry/hatred/etc.), numerous (liberal/left) posters chimed in with tolerant and broad-minded defenses of conservatism in general and criticized posts that childishly lumped it altogether as fundamentally bigoted and hateful. Your hypothetical doesn't match, since there were plenty of posters publcly criticizing the simplistic denigration of conservatism.

So once again, I think your characterization of the board is false. Shitty and bigoted posts are usually called out, even when they're made on the "liberal" side.
Hereís a perfect example.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...2#post21766052

That doesnít fit with what youíre trying to say here. And this isnít rare.

Again, Iím arguing as someone not personally offended, but I can see how it would drive people away who might otherwise be happy to contribute but would feel unwelcome here.
  #1174  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:51 PM
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And the horrible things some conservative posters say about liberals and the left?

Are you equally upset about that? Because I don't see any other conservative posters challenge those things.

Maybe you're just more sensitive to it in one direction?
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  #1175  
Old 09-27-2019, 01:05 PM
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Here’s a perfect example.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...2#post21766052

That doesn’t fit with what you’re trying to say here. And this isn’t rare.

Again, I’m arguing as someone not personally offended, but I can see how it would drive people away who might otherwise be happy to contribute but would feel unwelcome here.
That's a single post from a long, long thread (and it's more nuanced then what you're complaining about). There are tons of counter-examples, specifically challenging the notion that conservatism is rooted in hatefulness. Here's one (from the thread I was talking about earlier):

Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Many classically conservative values don't appear to be based on bigotry, IMO. Supporting Trump, on the other hand, requires bigotry (and misogyny), tolerance of bigotry (and misogyny), or ignorance of bigotry (and misogyny), IMO.
Notice that it's not critical of conservatism at all, just of support for Trump. I think you might be confusing criticism of Trump and Trump-support for criticism of conservatism as a whole.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-27-2019 at 01:06 PM.
  #1176  
Old 09-27-2019, 01:41 PM
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So once again, I think your characterization of the board is false. Shitty and bigoted posts are usually called out, even when they're made on the "liberal" side.
Remember when you said before (something like) that you wouldn't question a minority's take on what it is like to be that minority? That's like what you're doing now.
This is one of those things where I think you're own bias impacts your assessment.

How do you describe when conservative minded people say that the board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views, and then the left leaning people will explain to them how they're wrong. I'd call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it.
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:47 PM
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I'd call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it.
(bolding mine)

You misspelled "dismiss".
  #1178  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:01 PM
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Remember when you said before (something like) that you wouldn't question a minority's take on what it is like to be that minority? That's like what you're doing now.
This is one of those things where I think you're own bias impacts your assessment.

How do you describe when conservative minded people say that the board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views, and then the left leaning people will explain to them how they're wrong. I'd call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it.
Compared to what other boards? When they say they don't get treated fairly, I would like to see an example of what supposed "fairness" is before I agree to anything. Short of solid evidence I could say they get treated more than fair and that would be just as valid as any complaint on the other side of the aisle.
  #1179  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:09 PM
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Remember when you said before (something like) that you wouldn't question a minority's take on what it is like to be that minority? That's like what you're doing now.
This is one of those things where I think you're own bias impacts your assessment.

How do you describe when conservative minded people say that the board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views, and then the left leaning people will explain to them how they're wrong. I'd call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it.
I'm challenging specific claims -- that broad-brushing simplistic attacks on conservatism aren't called out. They are called out, frequently, on this board.

But of course my own bias might impact my assessment. I'm human. Your own bias might impact your assessment of my assessment, assuming you're also human.

The board leans liberal. Of course conservatives might find a board that leans liberal less welcoming than one that doesn't lean liberal. The only way to change that is to make the board less liberal... and then liberals would find it less welcoming.

EDIT: My position on this matches your position, IIRC -- conservative posters generally aren't mistreated on this board. Is my memory correct?

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-27-2019 at 02:13 PM.
  #1180  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:16 PM
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The board leans liberal. Of course conservatives might find a board that leans liberal less welcoming than one that doesn't lean liberal. The only way to change that is to make the board less liberal... and then liberals would find it less welcoming.
This post right here sums up my feelings pretty well I guess. I donít even see it as a ďproblemĒ, itís just how things are. Iím not conservative so it doesnít personally impact me. The board leans very heavily liberal and itís only likely to lean further that way if the only conservatives likely to come here are those looking for conflict.

I donít know if it needs to be ďfixedĒ. Productive discussions happen here all the time, most people are pretty cool, and itís a good place on the web.
  #1181  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:17 PM
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This post right here sums up my feelings pretty well I guess. I donít even see it as a ďproblemĒ, itís just how things are. Iím not conservative so it doesnít personally impact me. The board leans very heavily liberal and itís only likely to lean further that way if the only conservatives likely to come here are those looking for conflict.

I donít know if it needs to be ďfixedĒ. Productive discussions happen here all the time, most people are pretty cool, and itís a good place on the web.
So what were we arguing about?
  #1182  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:27 PM
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So what were we arguing about?
Everyone's in agreement! How about a rousing chorus of "Kumbaya"?

Better yet, a rousing chorus of one-eight-seven-seven-kars-four-kids!
  #1183  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:31 PM
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Everyone's in agreement! How about a rousing chorus of "Kumbaya"?

Better yet, a rousing chorus of one-eight-seven-seven-kars-four-kids!
I'll need a campfire for the former...and your effigy in straw for the latter.
  #1184  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:31 PM
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So what were we arguing about?
Please explain to me why ďthe consensus opinion that all conservative ideology is rooted in racismĒ exists. Iíve tried to find context for that and canít. Especially when combined with the comment that conservatives canít give ďexamples of conservative ideology that aren't rooted in racismĒ.
  #1185  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:33 PM
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Please explain to me why “the consensus opinion that all conservative ideology is rooted in racism” exists. I’ve tried to find context for that and can’t. Especially when combined with the comment that conservatives can’t give “examples of conservative ideology that aren't rooted in racism”.
I don't believe either statement is accurate. Some poster may have said that -- that doesn't mean that every poster believes it. AFAICT, most in the applicable threads pushed back against such notions.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-27-2019 at 02:34 PM.
  #1186  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I'm challenging specific claims -- that broad-brushing simplistic attacks on conservatism aren't called out. They are called out, frequently, on this board.
I think reducing it to specific individual incidents overlooks the more important, broader impact. I'm not trying to equate the two - but by way of analogy - when we look at overall issue of an unwelcoming atmosphere towards women, sure individual incidents can be examined but in general it is a tone, or attitude that spoke to a broader issue than any individual example. I think there are similarities in that there is a general unwelcoming attitude towards conservative views that goes beyond disagreement.

It certainly isn't everyone, just like not everyone had views that make women uncomfortable. But you seem to have no problem accepting that women speaking up saying they are uncomfortable, or they are not posting as much because reasons, while not accepting similar rationale by conservative minded posters.

Rather than attempt to defend something, just consider it, because I really do think this is an area where your and others bias create this blind spot. Anyways, this isn't really the thread for it so I'll leave it at that.
  #1187  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:04 PM
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I feel like that same rationale can be used to discredit those that claim that white privilege doesn't exist. If people who experience the affects of it feel that it does, doesn't it do the same thing to them to deny it's existence? Maybe those that benefit from it have a blind spot too?

Not trying to start a tangent on white privilege but just trying to draw a parallel.
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  #1188  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
I think reducing it to specific individual incidents overlooks the more important, broader impact. I'm not trying to equate the two - but by way of analogy - when we look at overall issue of an unwelcoming atmosphere towards women, sure individual incidents can be examined but in general it is a tone, or attitude that spoke to a broader issue than any individual example. I think there are similarities in that there is a general unwelcoming attitude towards conservative views that goes beyond disagreement.



It certainly isn't everyone, just like not everyone had views that make women uncomfortable. But you seem to have no problem accepting that women speaking up saying they are uncomfortable, or they are not posting as much because reasons, while not accepting similar rationale by conservative minded posters.



Rather than attempt to defend something, just consider it, because I really do think this is an area where your and others bias create this blind spot. Anyways, this isn't really the thread for it so I'll leave it at that.
I will consider this. Thank you sincerely for this reasonable suggestion.
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  #1189  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:08 PM
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Remember when you said before (something like) that you wouldn't question a minority's take on what it is like to be that minority? That's like what you're doing now.
This is one of those things where I think you're own bias impacts your assessment.

How do you describe when conservative minded people say that the board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views, and then the left leaning people will explain to them how they're wrong. I'd call it liberal-splaining to contextualize it.
Would you say that this board is unwelcoming towards Truthers and Flat Earthers and AntiVaxxers? Is that a problem if we are?

If conservatives find facts inconvenient, and they find facts to be unwelcoming to their viewpoints, how do you propose we reconcile that?

I don't think that this board is particularity unwelcoming to conservatives. The majority here disagree with conservative viewpoints, and so that can feel a bit unwelcoming, but I don't see how to fix that either. If you are a cat person, and you go hang out with dog people, they are not unwelcoming to you, even if they don't share you interests.

Many here are hostile to racist or misogynist or homophobic or otherwise bigoted views. If someone expresses those views, how welcoming do you think we should be?

What, specific conservative views do you feel this board is unwelcoming and unfriendly towards? Do you consider not immediately capitulating and agreeing to conservative views, but instead asking that they be backed by facts and logic to be unwelcoming or unfriendly?

Last edited by k9bfriender; 09-27-2019 at 03:11 PM.
  #1190  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:12 PM
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I thought it was common knowledge that this board is generally unwelcoming or unfriendly towards conservative views?

But a lot of the "conservative views" are moronic at best or racist at worst. How can a board dedicated to fighting ignorance be accepting of that?
  #1191  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:18 PM
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I don't believe either statement is accurate. Some poster may have said that -- that doesn't mean that every poster believes it. AFAICT, most in the applicable threads pushed back against such notions.
Iím literally quoting from the link I posted which you insist is only about Trump. Everything in quotes was from that thread, specifically the last two posts of the thread (right after your last post In the thread). Iím honestly trying to understand the context if those statements werenít intended to be talking about conservatives in general.

Most people in that thread werenít pushing back by the way, yourself included. It was just accepted. Again, I assert that thereís good people on this board (yourself included, youíre one of my favorite people on this board) that donít see the anti-conservative rhetoric as it happens.

Again, I donít think most people here are bad, and to have an environment that is equally welcome to both sides of the political spectrum would be difficult to maintain. This board is very left, and thatís okay (to me at least). It certainly wouldnít be okay to a person on the right whoíd like to contribute but will struggle when the consensus here is that people on the right are racists and bigots.
  #1192  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:26 PM
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I think reducing it to specific individual incidents overlooks the more important, broader impact. I'm not trying to equate the two - but by way of analogy - when we look at overall issue of an unwelcoming atmosphere towards women, sure individual incidents can be examined but in general it is a tone, or attitude that spoke to a broader issue than any individual example. I think there are similarities in that there is a general unwelcoming attitude towards conservative views that goes beyond disagreement.

It certainly isn't everyone, just like not everyone had views that make women uncomfortable. But you seem to have no problem accepting that women speaking up saying they are uncomfortable, or they are not posting as much because reasons, while not accepting similar rationale by conservative minded posters.
But, it was demanded that the women give specific example after example of incidents, and have those incidences dissected and told that they really weren't that bad before the board decided to start doing anything about it.

They didn't get away with just saying that there seems to be a general "unwelcoming atmosphere."
Quote:
Rather than attempt to defend something, just consider it, because I really do think this is an area where your and others bias create this blind spot. Anyways, this isn't really the thread for it so I'll leave it at that.
I don't think that there is much to defend, as you have not laid out a very good case for your position.
  #1193  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
I’m literally quoting from the link I posted which you insist is only about Trump. Everything in quotes was from that thread, specifically the last two posts of the thread (right after your last post In the thread). I’m honestly trying to understand the context if those statements weren’t intended to be talking about conservatives in general.



Most people in that thread weren’t pushing back by the way, yourself included. It was just accepted. Again, I assert that there’s good people on this board (yourself included, you’re one of my favorite people on this board) that don’t see the anti-conservative rhetoric as it happens.



Again, I don’t think most people here are bad, and to have an environment that is equally welcome to both sides of the political spectrum would be difficult to maintain. This board is very left, and that’s okay (to me at least). It certainly wouldn’t be okay to a person on the right who’d like to contribute but will struggle when the consensus here is that people on the right are racists and bigots.
I saw tons of posts in that thread that pushed against the general notion that conservative values are based on bigotry. I don't know if every single such post was challenged, but when I say "not all conservative values are based on bigotry", then I'm pushing back against the opposite notion, even if that notion comes in a later post.

Maybe you're different, but I don't quote and reply to every single post I disagree with. Sometimes I'm tired, sometimes I'm not interested, sometimes I don't feel like it, sometimes I think it's too dumb or obvious to bother with, etc. Sometimes I just don't see it.

You're right that some individual posts are bad, including from liberals. But so what? What does that prove? Why is that notable?
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  #1194  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:36 PM
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Iím literally quoting from the link I posted which you insist is only about Trump. Everything in quotes was from that thread, specifically the last two posts of the thread (right after your last post In the thread). Iím honestly trying to understand the context if those statements werenít intended to be talking about conservatives in general.

Most people in that thread werenít pushing back by the way, yourself included. It was just accepted. Again, I assert that thereís good people on this board (yourself included, youíre one of my favorite people on this board) that donít see the anti-conservative rhetoric as it happens.

Again, I donít think most people here are bad, and to have an environment that is equally welcome to both sides of the political spectrum would be difficult to maintain. This board is very left, and thatís okay (to me at least). It certainly wouldnít be okay to a person on the right whoíd like to contribute but will struggle when the consensus here is that people on the right are racists and bigots.
Outside of frustrated one-offs in reaction to particularity vile actions by conservative posters pundits, or politicians, I don't think that I see that sort of sentiment here.

What I do see is that being a conservative should not be cover for being a bigot, but it is bigots that are being bigoted, and then complaining that they are being persecuted for being conservative.

If conservatives want to find themselves more welcome, maybe they could call out the bigots in their ranks, rather than giving them cover and letting them hide behind the label of conservative.
  #1195  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:44 PM
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Surely you can see the difference between "annoyed" and "upset and rude"?
In his defense, heís not the only one. Help me out, here.
  #1196  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:55 PM
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In light of that and the other comment, I sincerely wish there was a poster here named "upset and rude"
  #1197  
Old 09-27-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
What I do see is that being a conservative should not be cover for being a bigot, but it is bigots that are being bigoted, and then complaining that they are being persecuted for being conservative.
That absolutely fair and I do see that particular thing happen on this board on a regular basis.
  #1198  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:09 PM
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There sure are a lot of people using the term ďconservativesĒ to describe radical reactionaries. Itís almost as if there isnít general recognition of the fact that itís not possible to be radical and conservative simultaneously.
  #1199  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:10 PM
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And I thought we were friends.
Don't try for cute, motherfucker. It doesn't suit your idiot ass.
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You have to admit that the notes that led to warnings are almost as contrived as Hueyís banning.
No, I don't "have to admit" jack.
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Specifically tailored and overly broad prohibitions like that are almost a trap.
"Almost like a trap"? How very fucking coy.
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Is sealioning actually a thing
Oh, it's very much a thing. The original comic was as funny as it was because it described behaviour that we all already knew intimately.
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or is it what you accuse someone of when you disagree with them but it isnít sending you into a frothing rage?
How the fuck could you tell? You erroneously seem to think a few fucking swears is going off the deep end, you one-track cuntpony.
  #1200  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:26 PM
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I personally draw a distinction between the sort of person who USED to be called "conservative", and the crop of people who now have taken control of the conservative label. The latter group are conservatives, and they are to the last man shit sculpted into poor approximations of human form. The former group are now cast adrift and labelless, since their political party and their label have been hijacked by shitheads.
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