Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:24 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
So how the hell do I start watching the debate FROM THE BEGINNING online? I've found multiple sites to watch it but none allow me to restart it from an earlier time. Not even Hulu and Sling!! Help me!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...er-15-2019.cnn
  #52  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:26 PM
Happy Lendervedder's Avatar
Happy Lendervedder is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,225
I only watched about 45 minutes of the debate tonight (started in on the tail end of wealth tax and watched Syria stuff and guns and perhaps something else), so I admittedly didn't see the entire thing, but I'm left scratching my head by the positive responses here to Amy. My wife and I both said that she is just way to irritating to listen to and watch. Absolutely no presence, voice is too quivery, comes across too awkward. My wife asked how she's even still in this (I believe her exact question was "Who listens to her and says, 'Yep! That's my candidate!'? ")

It was remarkable to me that the most eloquent and well-spoken candidate on foreign policy was the smallish-town mayor. Pete really came across as polished and forceful and intelligent on military, diplomacy and Middle Eastern policy.

The Pete and Beto exchange on guns was pretty entertaining. Beto is toast.

And the one thing that I'm sick and fucking tired of these candidates talking about (and I know this is gonna make me sound like an asshole) is poverty. Booker's focus is too much on the poor. One of the candidates tonight (Castro? Beto?) mentioned "that guy at home tonight making minimum wage and who's now considering driving for Uber to make ends meet." Democrats need to shift their message away from poverty alleviation toward policies that matter to actual middle class voters, like my Uncle G and Cousin D and mother-in-law and union member friends. This is why Democrats have lost a lot of industrial midwestern voters to Trump: They've become the party of giving a handout to the poor at the expense of the middle class. Even if you ARE poor, you probably want to think of yourself as "middle class," even if aspirationally. So talk to the middle class, not as the great hope of the poor.

Yes, I agree we need to lift all ships in this country when it comes to income, but for most people, they're not living under a bridge, and they're not making minimum wage, so when certain candidates use this language, they're not doing anything to earn the vote of the average suburban or rural middle class voter. And that's what the Dems need to beat Trump.

Personally, I'm now stuck somewhere between Pete and Warren, leaning heavily toward Warren. But perhaps if I watch more of the debate later, I'll see something in Warren that gives me pause.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 10-15-2019 at 11:28 PM.
  #53  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:28 PM
Boycott is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 249
1) Klobuchar
.........................
2) Sanders
.........................
3) Yang
4) Steyer
.........................
5) Biden
6) Warren
7) Booker
8) Buttigieg
9) Castro
10) Harris
11) Beto
12) Gabbard
  #54  
Old 10-15-2019, 11:36 PM
Wesley Clark is offline
2018 Midterm Prediction Winner
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutman74 View Post
I own an "assault rifle" and unlike many others, I would gladly relinquish mine, if I thought it would prevent one murder in this country. Unfortunately it won't. I also feel better owning such a weapon when we have religious righties and "militias" advocating for dragging liberals and dems through the streets. These people spouting this shit have these weapons. They're not going to give them up. I reserve, therefore, the right to defend me and mine.
Same here. I don't yet own a semi auto rifle but have considered it for the same reasons. I do own a handgun though.

The radical right wing terrorists aren't giving up their guns. It is becoming very acceptable to be openly hostile to the left (minorities, liberals, LGBT, etc). Plus due to law enforcement sometimes siding with the right wing terrorists you may not be able to count on the police for help.

It isn't well known, but a lot of black veterans of WW2 and the korean war provided armed guards to the college students who tried to register voters in the south.

https://www.amazon.com/This-Nonviole...s%2C162&sr=8-1
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 10-15-2019 at 11:36 PM.
  #55  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:02 AM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,902
Pete is BY FAR the most polished, authoritative, and all-around impressive of any of these people. BY FAR. He has consistently demonstrated this in every single debate.

A ticket of Buttegieg and Booker would knock it out of the park.
  #56  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:18 AM
sps49sd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutman74 View Post
There's absolutely nothing wrong with what you just posted Sherrerd. Why can't she just say that or something similar. It is totally fair. The plan does leave out those, who misguided as they may be, want to keep their own insurance. I've had a Cadillac union health plan and I've also had Obamacare. I currently have been removed from any because of a paperwork snafu. Having options is important.
Well, CNN is making that argument TO HER during the post show.

Tell me CNN (and the NYT) are not trying to anoint her.
  #57  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:26 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
I'm fully not sure they're not trying to anoint her right now. I will wholeheartedly vote for her in the general if that's who y'all choose, but i have Pete in the primaries right now.
  #58  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:28 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
The double negative was intentional, just so you know.
  #59  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:32 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
I have to say, I'm not disgusted with her plans. I just think Pete's are better. I will do virtually anything to keep the orange creep from a repeat.
  #60  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:36 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
I'm also not satisfied with her answer. She had her chance to enter into the minutia of the idea and refused. That may be a winning strategy for her , but it's bullshit as far as integrity goes.
  #61  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:41 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
Pete is BY FAR the most polished, authoritative, and all-around impressive of any of these people. BY FAR. He has consistently demonstrated this in every single debate.

These are all true statements. Also true: he is quite young, and looks super young. And he is the mayor of a small city, and one with a lot of problems at that.

He has great potential, but he needs to season a bit and, crucially, find some way to build a more legitimate resume. Which could be tough in Indiana, but he's a smart guy. Maybe move to Illinois?
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc

Last edited by SlackerInc; 10-16-2019 at 12:42 AM.
  #62  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:50 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
That shit worked for Lincoln.
  #63  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:54 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
I understand where y'all are coming from, but I think having a reasonably liberal mayor from a state where our esteemed VP came from could be a bulwark against the "encroachment" from the the leftist coasts. This could be a boon for our country cred.
  #64  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:57 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
Motherfucking Rhodes Scholar? Soldier, Mayor of a mid-sized industrial town crushed by outsourcing largely condoned by our current, ne'er do well president? he's got my vote.
  #65  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:58 AM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post

The trope that Beto's mandatory gun buyback plan is moot if police don't go door to door is absurd. Fully automatic weapons ("machine guns") are illegal now, but we don't send police to search everyone's house....
Well for decades you could get a $200 license, after passing a solid check.

But there are like 10 million assault weapons in the USA. There were never many fully auto tommy guns and the like, they were expensive and not popular except with gangsters. And they have been banned for so long, what few there are went to collectors or junked.

So, yeah, they might well have to do some sort of door to door checks. However, I will bet they will never pass a law banning possession. They might, as in CA, pass a register or buy back, like Joe suggests.
  #66  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:59 AM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
These are all true statements. Also true: he is quite young, and looks super young. And he is the mayor of a small city, and one with a lot of problems at that.

He has great potential, but he needs to season a bit and, crucially, find some way to build a more legitimate resume. Which could be tough in Indiana, but he's a smart guy. Maybe move to Illinois?
In what way is his resume not already legitimate enough? Why do you have to be a governor or senator to be taken seriously? Lots of governors and senators are totally fucked up and preside over states with enormous problems. How is he not "seasoned"? He has the charisma needed to win the election. This election has jack shit to do with being seasoned. Joe Biden is seasoned. He's as seasoned as you can get. He's been rubbed in rosemary, thyme, and all the rest, and it amounts to jack shit.
  #67  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:02 AM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post

A ticket of Buttegieg and Booker would knock it out of the park.
No, sorry, I like Mayor Pete but a openly Gay man wont play in Peoria in 2020- he cant win the general. I hope America gets to the point where he can win in 2028, I'd like to see that.

Bookers ideas on guns are looney.
  #68  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:09 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
Just want to see someone who's smarter than me as president. Is that a bridge too far?
  #69  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:12 AM
cutman74 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 169
Richard Pryor nailed Peoria. He was bisexual.
  #70  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:28 AM
DSeid's Avatar
DSeid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 22,785
Warren did not wear the yellow jersey well. She needed to show she could. I was really hoping she would.

Klobuchar benefited by having her strongest interactions early.

Buttigieg was solid and the interaction with Beto demonstrated some strength of character, some toughness and not gonna be pushed around, that will play well.

Sanders was more than energetic enough to keep his core and maybe win back a few who had defected.

Yang would have benefited if Sanders looked frail - but he did not.

Biden was standard issue Biden. His polling was unmoved by other debates with solid "WTF Joe?" moments and this was not that bad. No one will leave him because of this debate but it wasn't good enough to win over anyone new either.

I think the after polls will show Biden essentially unchanged, Warren dropped back some, Sanders a tick up as will be Klobuchar and Buttigieg. Harris will fall a bit further. Yang unchanged or one tick up. And no one else with numbers to even consider.

My WAG anyway.
  #71  
Old 10-16-2019, 04:08 AM
SlackerInc's Avatar
SlackerInc is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 12,745
Your WAG looks like trenchant analysis to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cutman74 View Post
I understand where y'all are coming from, but I think having a reasonably liberal mayor from a state where our esteemed VP came from could be a bulwark against the "encroachment" from the the leftist coasts. This could be a boon for our country cred.

It's possible that some could erroneously get that idea. In politics, perception trumps reality. But FWIW, the reality does not actually match up with that narrative. Indiana has been a red state in presidential elections at least 80% of the time over the past 45 years. During that same timespan, South Bend has never elected a Republican mayor. Not a single one. So the state it is in really doesn't have a lot of practical relevance. It's a college town with an inner-city black population. So if it represents anything, it's more of a microcosm of the Democratic Party: college students, college professors/counselors/administrators, and racial minorities.
__________________
SlackerInc on Twitter: http://twitter.com/slackerinc
  #72  
Old 10-16-2019, 04:34 AM
I Love Me, Vol. I's Avatar
I Love Me, Vol. I is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SF
Posts: 4,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutman74 View Post
I agree Warren is the one to beat, but I also have noticed that she's been given an extra up to 20 seconds with no one cutting her mic. I've seen others' mics potted down.
He said "potted".

You must work in the bizz? I'm sorry about this hijack, I've just never see anyone on the WebNet refer to potting up or down. Gave me a little tickle, it did.
  #73  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:56 AM
I Love Me, Vol. I's Avatar
I Love Me, Vol. I is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SF
Posts: 4,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
No, sorry, I like Mayor Pete but a openly Gay man wont play in Peoria in 2020- he cant win the general. I hope America gets to the point where he can win in 2028, I'd like to see that.

Bookers ideas on guns are looney.
I don't know man. Maybe he can't win anyway for other reasons but this conservative country is weird about homosexuality. The whole gays getting the right to marry thing went way smoother and happened way sooner than I ever would have imagined. I think a lot of conservative Americans just don't really think about it or care that much unless a gay person happens to meet their expectation of nutty-kookoo-flamboyance and in-your-faceness.

These days I think there's more of an issue with a Dem candidate being perceived as being a gun-grabbing, welfare-giving, income-redistributing Commie who's well to the Left of Chairman Mao.

Mayor Pete is so white-bread, Middle-America, corn-bred wholesome and earnest that many conservatives probably don't think of him as gay at all.

It's kinda the same thing as:

"Who, Steve?!? Steve ain't no n****r! I've known him since we was twelve. He's my best friend. If he's a n****r then so am I."
  #74  
Old 10-16-2019, 07:18 AM
Superdude's Avatar
Superdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Fortress of Solidude
Posts: 10,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
No, sorry, I like Mayor Pete but a openly Gay man wont play in Peoria in 2020- he cant win the general. I hope America gets to the point where he can win in 2028, I'd like to see that.

Bookers ideas on guns are looney.
I could see Mayor Pete as VP easily, with Harris as the PotUS nominee.
__________________
I can't help being a gorgeous fiend. It's just the card I drew.
  #75  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:04 AM
WillFarnaby is online now
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 5,390
Didn’t watch the debate this time. Did anyone say anything solidly antiwar or was there a bunch of pro-Syrian Civil War stuff going on?

I did google “Gabbard” this morning, of course. She had perhaps the funniest clip of this election cycle on her feed.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TulsiGabb...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

If you are in need of a good chuckle, watch the reactions of the top 3 contestants first around the 15 second mark, then contrast this with their reactions around 30 seconds. That is what fear looks like. Unfortunately I don’t see any coverage of a Harris-like takedown from Gabbard this time. This will probably be her last go, but if all she did this year was deny Harris, she has served our country greatly.
  #76  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:11 AM
KarlGauss's Avatar
KarlGauss is offline
Entangled
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Between pole and tropic
Posts: 8,524
As someone who wears her military service on her sleeve like a gaudy bracelet, you'd think Gabbard would understand the concept of 'team'.

Evidently not. When calls for unity made them all look better, she still couldn't resist taking cheap shots at her teammates.

Last edited by KarlGauss; 10-16-2019 at 08:13 AM.
  #77  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:23 AM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillFarnaby View Post
Didn’t watch the debate this time. Did anyone say anything solidly antiwar or was there a bunch of pro-Syrian Civil War stuff going on?

I did google “Gabbard” this morning, of course. She had perhaps the funniest clip of this election cycle on her feed.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TulsiGabb...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

If you are in need of a good chuckle, watch the reactions of the top 3 contestants first around the 15 second mark, then contrast this with their reactions around 30 seconds. That is what fear looks like. Unfortunately I don’t see any coverage of a Harris-like takedown from Gabbard this time. This will probably be her last go, but if all she did this year was deny Harris, she has served our country greatly.
You are reading something into that which isn't there. They were looking up when Gabbard was talking about them but looking at their notes when she wasn't.

Funny that you enjoyed that clip. Gabbard is criticizing Trump's pull out from the Kurdish held territory which I thought you favored.
  #78  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:46 AM
QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 19,337
I love Liz, but the fact that she kept saying "cost" instead of breaking it down the way Bernie does is a major strike against her. Not against her policies, but against the fact that she just keeps beating around the bush. She needs to get out of her own way on this issue.

Pete has my vote every day. That guy doesn't put a foot wrong as far as I'm concerned. That he has an issue with the black vote is a puzzle for me and a huge persistent challenge for him. Not sure how he will overcome that. My guess is that he's saving the South Carolina strategy for later in the contest, once he has assured his standing as a likely contender for the nomination.

Joe is a great guy but there is less there with each debate. Mighty Joe has struck out, as far as I'm concerned.

Amy is fine. She'll make a good cabinet member. So will Cory. I might consider Kamala for DOJ... but maybe not. Beto needs to take it down a notch; he talks like a guy who really needs a piss. Somebody accused Tulsi of being too pro Russia and I have no idea of the justification for that. She's just unremarkable. Ditto the rest of the field.
__________________
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #79  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:49 AM
Superdude's Avatar
Superdude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Fortress of Solidude
Posts: 10,678
I can never look at Beto O'Rourke without being distracted by how much he looks like a Kennedy family stunt double
__________________
I can't help being a gorgeous fiend. It's just the card I drew.

Last edited by Superdude; 10-16-2019 at 08:50 AM.
  #80  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:57 AM
Linden Arden is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
Pete is BY FAR the most polished, authoritative, and all-around impressive of any of these people. BY FAR. He has consistently demonstrated this in every single debate.
I agree, FWIW.

Intelligence is more important than a weak resume but I am in the minority on that opinion.
  #81  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:58 AM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,426
I didn't watch last night because I couldn't find an over-the-air broadcast. Anyway, I'd be happy if the Democrats didn't have another debate until the candidates have been whittled down to 4 or so.
  #82  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:22 AM
Kearsen1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriarty View Post
Senator Klobochur (so?) has decided to go on the offensive! She always sounds to me like she’s on the verge of tears when she gets emphatic.
That was exactly my thought last night. Her hair wavers, like she is barely controlling herself sitting still, almost teary eyed, and it gets rather scary looking at it for a long period, like a rabid dog.
  #83  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:24 AM
Babale is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
I didn't watch last night because I couldn't find an over-the-air broadcast. Anyway, I'd be happy if the Democrats didn't have another debate until the candidates have been whittled down to 4 or so.
And how should we go about that other than by pitting them against each other?
  #84  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:40 AM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babale View Post
And how should we go about that other than by pitting them against each other?
Normal campaign stuff? It's not like the debates literally whittle down the numbers. People run out of money or give up.
  #85  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:00 AM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linden Arden View Post
I agree, FWIW.

Intelligence is more important than a weak resume but I am in the minority on that opinion.
Whatever man, I'm still waiting for you to give back the highlights that you stole.
  #86  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:09 AM
Boycott is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
That was exactly my thought last night. Her hair wavers, like she is barely controlling herself sitting still, almost teary eyed, and it gets rather scary looking at it for a long period, like a rabid dog.
She had a great night in my opinion.

If people want a younger, more vibrant moderate than Biden then she's a strong contender.
  #87  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:14 AM
KarlGauss's Avatar
KarlGauss is offline
Entangled
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Between pole and tropic
Posts: 8,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boycott View Post
If people want a younger, more vibrant moderate than Biden then she's a strong contender.
Exactly. She is a natural to be on the ticket if anyone but Biden gets the nod.
  #88  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:40 AM
MaxTheVool is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 11,906
My analysis, for what it's worth. Winners (starting with the winning-est):

Mayor Pete - Intelligent, thoughtful, says relevant things.

Bernie - I really hope he isn't the nominee, but he's smart and witty and says things that need to be said. A truly impressive person

Cory Booker - Didn't knock it out of the park like he has in the past, but still a breath of fresh air. Charismatic and intelligent. Would absolutely massacre Donald Trump on a debate stage

Steyer - No idea who he was coming into this, but I was pleasantly surprised and impressed. But... hard to imagine him gaining traction


Middling:
Warren - As others have pointed out, didn't really deal well with being front-runner. Yes, the taxes-vs-costs thing is bullshit, but you should have a better answer for it

Castro - Nothing wrong with his performance, but he needs to start standing out and fast if he's going to go anywhere

Yang - After all the buzz he's been getting online, I was hoping for him to really grab me. And he was OK, didn't do anything wrong, had a few interesting takes, but certainly didn't blow me away


Losers:
Klobuchar - Lots of people seem to think she was great... have no idea what they saw at all. She was mostly a non-entity, but has a weirdly grating presence. Actually anti-charismatic

Biden - Too many fumbling misstatements, too much riding of Obama's coattails

Harris - Same as before, she just seems like a rehearsed and phony politician. That's not how you beat Trump


Loserest Losers:
Gabbard - WTF are you doing repeating "regime change war" over and over again and trying to get people to lock into a single simple position on the incredibly complicated situation in Syria? That's some serious BS right there

O'Rourke - Stop badgering the grownups. Stop bragging about an election that you LOST

Anyone else I forgot - If I forgot them, there's a reason for it
__________________
This post is merely corroborative detail, intended to add artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative
  #89  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:07 AM
Lord Feldon's Avatar
Lord Feldon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 6,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post
Klobuchar - Lots of people seem to think she was great... have no idea what they saw at all. She was mostly a non-entity, but has a weirdly grating presence. Actually anti-charismatic
That's how I've felt all four times. I'd always heard good things, I saw her occasionally on cable news and she seemed perfectly fine there, etc. She blasts her opponents to smithereens in Minnesota so she must have something going on but it has completely eludes me in this setting. I don't know if she's getting bad advice, or if she's just trying to rise past her level of competence or something.
  #90  
Old 10-16-2019, 11:40 AM
Moriarty's Avatar
Moriarty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 2,921
Count me among those who find Klobuchar to be grating and off-putting. Plus, I keep imagining her eating her salad with a comb, which is just bizarre.

She likes to boast that she won Michelle Bachman's district 3 times. I think that just shows how batshit that district really is.

Meanwhile, anybody else agree that the best parties are going to be at Yang's house?
"Take off your tie! Here's some money! I don't care if you do heroin! I like math!"
  #91  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:01 PM
Linden Arden is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
Whatever man, I'm still waiting for you to give back the highlights that you stole.
Hey, if you're going to have a fake name why not a memorable one?
  #92  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:08 PM
ISiddiqui is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Decatur, Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,763
I'm not entirely sure what people saw in Klobuchar either. But, contrary to others, I don't think Buttigieg was all that great either - unless he was auditioning as Biden's VP. He used to seem far more into a massive structural change (in how our government works, not necessarily in terms of programs) and now he's talking about how others are going to practically get things done? While also talking about how we can drastically change the Supreme Court (regardless of how he can avoid a Constitutional amendment).

I do think Warren should have explained more costs v. taxes, but I also know she was trying to avoid a potential GOP attack ad. I think she could have said it without saying the words "middle class taxes will go up" in a nicely packaged soundbite.

I think Booker did well. But for all the uplifting things he says, it doesn't really help him in the polls any.

Harris started off well, but her gambit to try to push Warren to say Trump should be banned by Twitter was bizarre. That's your big attack?!

Biden was Biden.

Yang and Beto and Castro were mostly forgettable.

Steyer and Gabbard can go now.

I actually though Sanders won the debate. People feared his health and he gave his best debate of this year.
  #93  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:23 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
I could see Mayor Pete as VP easily, with Harris as the PotUS nominee.
Pete could work as Veep. Harris numbers are so low, she has no chance (Pundits have guessed she is running for Veep). Nor does Pete, actually.
  #94  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:38 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Klobuchar knocked it out of the park. Sanders is showing the energy he needs to show. Warren is not weathering being called out well at all. Biden is the same meh performance he’s been.
It's annoying when people throw around the word "passionate". As in, I'm really passionate about meat loaf. Last night though, you could literally see Klobuchar trembling with passion. Oh, if Hillary could have displayed such emotion, along with reasonable arguments like K. had last night. She won, with Buttigieg slightly behind.
  #95  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:41 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,457
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post
I agree, and while I generally support her, it was frustrating to see her evade. That said, it's a gotcha question. Obviously if your taxes go up $1000 but your health care costs go down $2000, you come out ahead. Insisting "but will taxes go up? But will you raise taxes? Come on, say whether or not you will very specifically raise taxes out of context!!" is just ridiculous.
I think of this in terms of the Far Side comic with the dog hearing, "blah blah blah blah, Rover, blah blah, Rover....", no matter what his master is saying. If you make the argument that you are going to raise taxes, but don't worry, the savings in insurance costs will offset this, some voters are only going to hear the part about the raising of taxes. Better just to brush if off.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 10-16-2019 at 12:42 PM.
  #96  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:50 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,622
Sometimes. But sometimes it looks evasive. I didn't watch, I'll look at some clips later, but you can defend it while still bringing up taxes. Imho, you attack it head on. "Right now we all pay taxes and premiums for healthcare in this country. Any rises in taxes with my plan will be accompanied by bigger decreases in premiums. Out of pocket, you will be ahead".
  #97  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:50 PM
WillFarnaby is online now
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 5,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
You are reading something into that which isn't there. They were looking up when Gabbard was talking about them but looking at their notes when she wasn't.
Possibly, though it was echoing criticisms she has been making about Warren. In any case it was a comedic visual.

Quote:
Funny that you enjoyed that clip. Gabbard is criticizing Trump's pull out from the Kurdish held territory which I thought you favored.
I have 100% confidence in Gabbard to draw down troop levels quicker and better than Trump and anyone on that stage.
  #98  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:50 PM
Boycott is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
I'm not entirely sure what people saw in Klobuchar either. But, contrary to others, I don't think Buttigieg was all that great either - unless he was auditioning as Biden's VP. He used to seem far more into a massive structural change (in how our government works, not necessarily in terms of programs) and now he's talking about how others are going to practically get things done? While also talking about how we can drastically change the Supreme Court (regardless of how he can avoid a Constitutional amendment).

I do think Warren should have explained more costs v. taxes, but I also know she was trying to avoid a potential GOP attack ad. I think she could have said it without saying the words "middle class taxes will go up" in a nicely packaged soundbite.

I think Booker did well. But for all the uplifting things he says, it doesn't really help him in the polls any.

Harris started off well, but her gambit to try to push Warren to say Trump should be banned by Twitter was bizarre. That's your big attack?!

Biden was Biden.

Yang and Beto and Castro were mostly forgettable.

Steyer and Gabbard can go now.

I actually though Sanders won the debate. People feared his health and he gave his best debate of this year.
Well Warren makes a big deal about breaking up facebook? Going after Zuckerburg. Twitter must be fair game too unless her agenda is economic punishment...punitive as Beto said.

I think its worth noting Harris along with Biden, Booker and Steyer received packages containing pipe bombs by a deranged Trump supporter who drove around in a truck full of hateful pro-Trump anti-Democrat images and whose twitter was a cesspit of hate and threats. Trump's twitter account encourages that with his postings.
  #99  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:20 PM
ISiddiqui is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Decatur, Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,763
Twitter is worth $4.4b while Facebook is worth $68b. If you are for breaking up the big companies under anti-trust (along with Google and Amazon), I'm thinking going after the one worth less than $5b would be far more punitive.
  #100  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:28 PM
Aspenglow's Avatar
Aspenglow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,251
I think it's amusing the folks who find Klobuchar's voice mannerisms annoying. I hear exactly the same thing in Warren's voice mannerisms. She comes across to me as almost wheedling, entreating. I don't hold it against either one of them.

We could easily excoriate nearly all the candidates for their tics: Bernie's "I wrote the damn bill!"; Biden's "I'm going to beat him like a drum!"; O'Rourke's arm waving; Harris's tendency to talk 'down home'; Yang's body movements that make me wonder if he has a big key in his back, etc.

I just don't care about this superficial stuff. I'm interested in their policies and to what extent they are qualified for the job.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017