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  #51  
Old 02-01-2019, 08:39 PM
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This was 35 years ago when he was young and in school.
C'mon, he was in medical school. He would have been 24 or 25 when this was published. That's well beyond the "youthful indiscretion" threshold.
  #52  
Old 02-01-2019, 08:43 PM
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According to his Wiki page, he was born in 1959. So, 24 or 25 years old indeed.

Dude needs to go.
  #53  
Old 02-01-2019, 08:56 PM
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I vote dem and I am dem, but I didn't ever think I'd support Dixie Crat.
  #54  
Old 02-01-2019, 08:58 PM
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To me, it's about being consistent with the outrage. If this had been a Republican politician, many of us (myself included) would have been calling for him to resign.

I have no dog in the actual fight, as I don't live in Virginia, but he should step down, and the sooner, the better.
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  #55  
Old 02-01-2019, 08:59 PM
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People are floating the conspiracy theory that Northam disrupted the abortion narrative with his remarks on the subject, and so suddenly this photo has surfaced to get rid of him. Igniting the passions of the pro-life segment with "infantacide" and "late-term abortion" talking points is undesirable, the theory goes.

Super tinfoil hat stuff, but interesting nonetheless. Really odd that this photo never surfaced until now.
  #56  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:02 PM
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Yes, and it's because he withheld this information during the campaign.
Yeah. He never mentioned this little ticking time bomb to his campaign staff? He did, and they said "Yeah, go ahead and run anyway"? He forgot all about it until just now? Only the first one sounds remotely plausible, at least to me.

I don't live in Virginia, so my opinion doesn't count, but if I did, I'd want him to resign. I'm sure there's at least one other person qualified for the position who doesn't have that baggage weighing him down.
  #57  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:11 PM
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Quoth Dacien:

This whole thing is just ghoulish the more I think about it. With future elected officials having grown up saturated in social media, we're in for a heck of ride.
No doubt a lot of people will be filtered out by what they've said and done on social media. Is that a bad thing? Our elected officials are only a very small fraction of the population, and they should be better than us as a whole. It's inherent in the concept that we must filter the population very aggressively in order to choose our leaders. Is this a worse filter than whatever else we'd be using?

Yes, obviously this was meant as a joke. And what that tells us is that he's the kind of guy who finds this sort of thing funny. Given the choice of a politician who finds this sort of thing funny or one who doesn't, I'll take the latter.
  #58  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:18 PM
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No doubt a lot of people will be filtered out by what they've said and done on social media. Is that a bad thing? Our elected officials are only a very small fraction of the population, and they should be better than us as a whole. It's inherent in the concept that we must filter the population very aggressively in order to choose our leaders. Is this a worse filter than whatever else we'd be using?

Yes, obviously this was meant as a joke. And what that tells us is that he's the kind of guy who finds this sort of thing funny. Given the choice of a politician who finds this sort of thing funny or one who doesn't, I'll take the latter.
Yeah but it was 35 years ago. I'm super not comfortable with this standard. Context matters. Like, I'm super pro-life with reasonable concessions (12 weeks seems reasonable to me) so there's no love lost if this guy goes, but are we really going to judge 59-year-old Governor Ralph Northam on 24-year-old Med Student Ralph Northam? Are we not allowed to view individuals on how they've behaved and acted for all of their adult lives save a few years?

It's extremely disquieting. We pluck a photo out from 35 years ago and that wipes away everything he stands for and everything he fights for? His job as a Governor and his work on the issues in that role comes down to a 35-year-old tasteless photo?

I'd be making these same arguments for a Republican or a Democrat.
  #59  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:26 PM
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People are floating the conspiracy theory that Northam disrupted the abortion narrative with his remarks on the subject, and so suddenly this photo has surfaced to get rid of him. Igniting the passions of the pro-life segment with "infantacide" and "late-term abortion" talking points is undesirable, the theory goes.

Super tinfoil hat stuff, but interesting nonetheless. Really odd that this photo never surfaced until now.
I'm not sure I follow - is the conspiracy theory that a pro-choice Democrat has always known about this, and has now put it out there because they don't like how his comments have influenced the debate?

Maybe that's "tinfoil hat" stuff, I don't know, but it doesn't seem any stranger than the fact that it didn't come to light when he was running.

Last edited by Riemann; 02-01-2019 at 09:29 PM.
  #60  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:31 PM
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I'm not sure I follow - is the theory that a pro-choice Democrat has always known about this, and has now put it out there because they don't like how his comments have influenced the debate?
Basically. The major cog that seems to be turning the machine is the fact that this photo only just came out now, days after he ignited a firestorm of debate over "infanticide". And that discussion really shifted the abortion debate into an extreme area that favors pro-life talking points.

Last edited by Dacien; 02-01-2019 at 09:33 PM.
  #61  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:38 PM
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Option 1: Mea maxima culpa. A full and complete accounting of the facts, and let the chips fall where they may.

Option 2: Resign.

Option 2 is probably the path of least resistance. What I've seen to date doesn't even come close to Option 1.
  #62  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:43 PM
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I’m in favor of the concept of redemption. If he’s doing a good job now, according to the voters of VA, then stuff that happened 20+ years ago should be looked at as what it is. Youthful foolishness. It was very poor taste but it wasn’t criminal.

With cell phones, social media, and an eternal internet I think we should be a bit more nonchalant about decades old or even a decade old incident of jackassery.

Last edited by octopus; 02-01-2019 at 09:46 PM.
  #63  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:52 PM
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I’m in favor of the concept of redemption. If he’s doing a good job now, according to the voters of VA, then stuff that happened 20+ years ago should be looked at as what it is. Youthful foolishness. It was very poor taste but it wasn’t criminal.

With cell phones, social media, and an eternal internet I think we should be a bit more nonchalant about decades old or even a decade old incident of jackassery.
If you were to judge me even by who was just ten years ago, you'd be looking at a completely different person. I'm embarrassed, regretful, and ashamed of some of the mistakes I've made just ten years ago! If I was fighting for what I believed in today with a new outlook, in a more mature and well-adjusted place, and somebody brought up some awful thing I did in my twenties, I'd feel deeply wronged. That's not who I am today, that's not what I stand for, and I distance myself from those mistakes completely, and have moved forward from them.

This is called being human. And our elected officials are no different.

Last edited by Dacien; 02-01-2019 at 09:52 PM.
  #64  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:56 PM
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If you were to judge me even by who was just ten years ago, you'd be looking at a completely different person. I'm embarrassed, regretful, and ashamed of some of the mistakes I've made just ten years ago! If I was fighting for what I believed in today with a new outlook, in a more mature and well-adjusted place, and somebody brought up some awful thing I did in my twenties, I'd feel deeply wronged. That's not who I am today, that's not what I stand for, and I distance myself from those mistakes completely, and have moved forward from them.

This is called being human. And our elected officials are no different.
And if you spoke so honestly about this before you were elected, I might well vote for you.
  #65  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:00 PM
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My first reaction was "He was so young and it was so long ago."

My second reaction was "But Kavanaugh..."
Well, exactly. They both did rude shit decades ago. One seems to have grown out of the insensitivity, and the other not so much.
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:02 PM
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And if you spoke so honestly about this before you were elected, I might well vote for you.
If politicians have to recollect every affair, every off color joke or comment, every poor choice in robes and pointy hats we might be in for a long series of confessionals. Imagine if everyoneís internet search history was public knowledge.
  #67  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:08 PM
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This is Governor Post Birth Abortion’s?
Not the smartest is he.
  #68  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:12 PM
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Well, exactly. They both did rude shit decades ago. One seems to have grown out of the insensitivity, and the other not so much.
Yeah, Kavanaugh was a douchebag kid who grew up to be a douchebag adult and lied about being a douchebag kid. Northam at least admitted (mostly, but without saying which person is him) to being a douchebag and offered an actual apology, not an I'm-sorry-if-you-were-offended fake apology. I lean toward thinking he should resign, but I see Northam and Kavanaugh as very different.
  #69  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:13 PM
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No doubt a lot of people will be filtered out by what they've said and done on social media. Is that a bad thing? Our elected officials are only a very small fraction of the population, and they should be better than us as a whole. It's inherent in the concept that we must filter the population very aggressively in order to choose our leaders. Is this a worse filter than whatever else we'd be using?

Yes, obviously this was meant as a joke. And what that tells us is that he's the kind of guy who finds this sort of thing funny. Given the choice of a politician who finds this sort of thing funny or one who doesn't, I'll take the latter.
Recall that a few weeks ago, the Academy Awards chose Kevin Hart to host the Oscars this year. And shortly thereafter, he was dropped from the job due to some bad jokes on Twitter about homosexuality. And since then, they haven't been able to find anyone to take his place.

If a certain job means having every stupid or offensive thing a person has ever posted online or made public anywhere else will be dragged out in public at great length, and then used to wreck one's career, the number of people willing to do that job may suddenly drop. To zero, in some cases.

If the Democrats decide that every poorly chosen, decades-old joke by one of their politicians should be a career ender, they might likewise find that the number of people wanting to run for office as Democrats will decrease.
  #70  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:18 PM
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If politicians have to recollect every affair, every off color joke or comment....
Slippery slope nonsense.

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...every poor choice in robes and pointy hats we might be in for a long series of confessionals.
Perhaps it seems overly strict to you, but yes I do think any prospective candidate for high office should disclose to the voters every time they have shown such appalling judgment as to dress up in blackface and KKK outfit, pose for a photo, and be proud of the funny joke.
  #71  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:25 PM
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There's a lot of hot takes out there, but this Twitter thread is worth your time.

https://twitter.com/RobGeorge/status...29774500057089
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:30 PM
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Slippery slope nonsense.



Perhaps it seems overly strict to you, but yes I do think any prospective candidate for high office should disclose to the voters every time they have shown such appalling judgment as to dress up in blackface and KKK outfit, pose for a photo, and be proud of the funny joke.
Itís not slippery slope at all. People really arenít thinking through the combination of eternal storage of video, text, and audio; global dissemination with social media; and demands for purity.

I donít think itís overly strict as it is counterproductive. If people donít feel there is redemption, especially for something thatís just very poor taste and isnít illegal, then you run the risk of people who decide itís not worth the effort to evolve. Itís a bit like prison. Do you want prison to strictly punish and be a place for retribution or should it be a place for rehabilitation?
  #73  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:55 PM
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Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.
  #74  
Old 02-01-2019, 10:58 PM
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Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.
Right, definitely not an accident. Because nobody has spotted it, their clever ruse has pulled the wool over our eyes, and now everyone believes he's a Republican.
  #75  
Old 02-01-2019, 11:14 PM
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Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.
It probably was, when I saw the headline "Calls for resignation as VA governor apologizes for racist year book photo" I assumed he was a Republican. Republicans usually have all the 'best' racists.

We'll see if CNN makes an on air correction or if they go the FOX News route and mention it on a web page somewhere or in some cases never make a correction at all.


I don't care if it was over 30 years ago. That means he's had over 30 years to apologize. Instead he 'forgot' about it or actively buried it. He's only chosen to apologize after he was caught. He needs to go.
  #76  
Old 02-01-2019, 11:24 PM
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Now CNN supposedly listed the governor as a Republican. You know that was no accident.
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It probably was, when I saw the headline "Calls for resignation as VA governor apologizes for racist year book photo" I assumed he was a Republican. Republicans usually have all the 'best' racists.

We'll see if CNN makes an on air correction or if they go the FOX News route and mention it on a web page somewhere or in some cases never make a correction at all.


I don't care if it was over 30 years ago. That means he's had over 30 years to apologize. Instead he 'forgot' about it or actively buried it. He's only chosen to apologize after he was caught. He needs to go.
Might want to note that "supposedly". I was just over on CNN's website; where the story identifies him as "Virginia's Democratic governor", and the video of the story, in an image of his statement, shows him as "D - Virginia" Just where did you hear that he was "supposedly" misidentified on CNN, octopus?
  #77  
Old 02-01-2019, 11:30 PM
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https://youtu.be/yAXmGjtSBAM

Around second 17 in that video. Could be a Russian deepfake video though.
  #78  
Old 02-01-2019, 11:40 PM
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https://youtu.be/yAXmGjtSBAM

Around second 17 in that video. Could be a Russian deepfake video though.
I was about to concede it looked genuine, and then I did a little more digging.
First off, the part you point to puts the misidentification right over what looks like his official title bit. Okay, maybe they do that, and mistakes happen.
Then, a bit further in at about second 51, the chyron correctly identifies him as (D) - Virginia.
I looked a bit down the page, where it says it's "CNN Politics Network", which sounded a little odd to me. Clicking on that will take you to this page, and then clicking the "About" button takes you here.
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CNN Politics Networks brings all the latest and breaking news of Unites States Of America to you.
Like and Subscribe!!!
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So, on balance, I'd say it's a fake.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:49 PM
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I was about to concede it looked genuine, and then I did a little more digging.
First off, the part you point to puts the misidentification right over what looks like his official title bit. Okay, maybe they do that, and mistakes happen.
Then, a bit further in at about second 51, the chyron correctly identifies him as (D) - Virginia.
I looked a bit down the page, where it says it's "CNN Politics Network", which sounded a little odd to me. Clicking on that will take you to this page, and then clicking the "About" button takes you here.

So, on balance, I'd say it's a fake.
*laughing at myself*

After all that work, I had the bright idea to go to CNN's actual YouTube site, and there it is, at about 40 seconds in.
Mea culpa, octopus, you were right.

Northam should still resign.
  #80  
Old 02-01-2019, 11:59 PM
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Mea culpa, octopus, you were right.
So your prior news that the story about CNN's fake news was fake news was fake news?
  #81  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:04 AM
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I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.
  #82  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:37 AM
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Pressure is mounting on Virginia Democratic Gov. Ralph Northam to resign.
Northam, who apologized earlier Friday for appearing in a racist yearbook photo showing one person dressed in blackface and another in the Ku Klux Klan's signature white hood and robes, became a politician with few allies after a series of calls from prominent Virginia Democrats loosened the governor's hold on his job.
Statements from the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, the Virginia House and Senate Democrats and former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe -- who was governor when Northam was lieutenant governor -- ratcheted up the tension on Friday night. In the span of 30 minutes, the three groups and Northam's predecessor all announced they believed the governor must step aside.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/01/polit...ign/index.html
  #83  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:01 AM
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Recall that a few weeks ago, the Academy Awards chose Kevin Hart to host the Oscars this year. And shortly thereafter, he was dropped from the job due to some bad jokes on Twitter about homosexuality. And since then, they haven't been able to find anyone to take his place.
No, what happened there was that people found Kevin Hart's old tweets (which he hadn't deleted), and he was asked if he would apologize. He refused to apologize. That is why he lost the job. (Afterwards, he started apologizing, but it was too late. And then he started running around do a "woe is me" tour that only made people hate him worse.)

And, no, we don't have to worry about every little problem someone has in the past. We are talking about a guy who dressed up in blackface, standing by someone in KKK robes, in the 1980s as some sort of joke. This is not a small thing.

There's no reason to think this is a common problem. Even most racists weren't that openly racist in the 1980s.

I also don't like that we have to go through the forgiveness talk every time. It's not that hard. You have to repudiate your actions, apologize sincerely, show you care about the people you hurt, and make some sort of amends for the issue.

It is unlikely he has already done this, since this whole thing was a secret no one knew about it. He doesn't get forgiveness until he does. Thus, he needs to step down.

Then there's the optics. Do you really think it's a good idea to have "coonman" stay on for the Dems? Don't you think that the Pubs would have a field day with that? Politics very often isn't fair. It wasn't fair that Clinton lost, either.
  #84  
Old 02-02-2019, 02:14 AM
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Itís not slippery slope at all. People really arenít thinking through the combination of eternal storage of video, text, and audio; global dissemination with social media; and demands for purity.

I donít think itís overly strict as it is counterproductive. If people donít feel there is redemption, especially for something thatís just very poor taste and isnít illegal, then you run the risk of people who decide itís not worth the effort to evolve. Itís a bit like prison. Do you want prison to strictly punish and be a place for retribution or should it be a place for rehabilitation?
No one's saying he can't be rehabilitated. We're just saying he should resign. I don't mind if he, say, returns to private practice.
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Old 02-02-2019, 03:32 AM
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I lean toward thinking he should resign, but I see Northam and Kavanaugh as very different.
I see Northam and Kavanaugh as being very different too.

Kavanaugh was a spoiled shit who wrote some vile, ugly things about young women in his yearbook back when he was 16 or 17 years of age, clearly showing him to be a smug, arrogant little bastard.

Northam proudly dressed up in the ceremonial garb of a racist hate group that savagely, indiscriminantly murdered thousands of Americans on the basis of ethnicity or religion, a group that still in the minds of millions of Americans today is spiritually akin to German Nazis of the 1940's, back when he was a 25 year-old medical student.

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  #86  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:20 AM
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There is not enough lipstick in the entire world to pretty up this pig of a story. He will gone within hours.
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:52 AM
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It's presumably a nickname he acquired as a direct result of that outfit.
The "Coonman" nickname was in his VMI undergrad yearbook; the blackface/KKK pic was in his med school yearbook.

'Coon' was of course another derogatory term for an African-American person, like 'n****r.'
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:28 AM
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This is Governor Post Birth Abortionís?
Not the smartest is he.
I need to tell you that you are repeating a falsehood. You may be unaware of that. But please consider yourself aware now.
  #89  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:32 AM
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Speaking of Northam and Kavanaugh, I fervently hope that as we speak, somewhere, someone is delevoping a wacky, Hi-Proof Hijinks filled sit-com in the tradition of the "Odd Couple", "Perfect Strangers" or "Sid & Nancy" naturally to be called "Dr. Coonman & De Judge" which would follow our lovingly mismatched heroes on their weekly misadventures, filled with plenty of boofing, ralphing, "'Skis with Timmy'' and the Birthin' of Nigra' Babies, and of course in the end most importantly, lots learning and personal growth...

"Remember, tune into FOX Tuesdays at 9 for 'Dr. Coonman & De Judge', more fun than a trip to the Devil's Triangle"
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:35 AM
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If people donít feel there is redemption, especially for something thatís just very poor taste and isnít illegal, then you run the risk of people who decide itís not worth the effort to evolve. Itís a bit like prison. Do you want prison to strictly punish and be a place for retribution or should it be a place for rehabilitation?
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No one's saying he can't be rehabilitated. We're just saying he should resign. I don't mind if he, say, returns to private practice.
Bingo. I think it's analogous to all those evangelical preacher scandals of the 1980s (e.g. Jim Bakker). They'd be exposed, confess their sins with much weepery, and then expect that forgiveness meant they got to go on as before.

Well, it doesn't work like that. After shit like that, if you repent, you're accepted back into the flock. But you don't get to keep on being the shepherd.

Same here. Nobody's casting Ralph Northam into the outer darkness; we're just saying he can't be Governor anymore. Too many people would be too uncomfortable having a leader who'd ever done that.
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:43 AM
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I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.
It was med school. These were adults. They didn't need a faculty advisor.

Hell, I was on the college paper during my undergraduate days in the early to mid 1970s. I don't think we even had a faculty advisor, but if we did, his role would have had to be pretty minimal, because I have no memory of such a person.
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:49 AM
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Northam's office announced last night that he'll be holding a press conference at 10am today. I would assume that he will announce his resignation at that time.

The Democratic caucuses in both the VA House of Delegates and VA Senate have called on him to resign. Terry MacAuliffe, his predecessor as governor, has called on him to resign. Presidential candidates (Kamala Harris and Julian Castro that I know of) have called on him to resign.
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Old 02-02-2019, 05:52 AM
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One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator. Perhaps because the governor at times in West Virginia was a Republican and could pick his replacement?

If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.

The photo is a hideous disgrace. He should step down immediately.
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
I haven't read the whole thread, but I know that I am not the only person who is wondering what kind of weirdo they had for a yearbook advisor.
I think for med school they probably don't have anybody on the faculty looking into this kind of minor stuff. Those faculty treat patients as well as teach so they don't have a lot of spare time
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:30 AM
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It's a damn shame a solid progressive like Tom Periello lost to Northam in the primary. I lived in Charlottesville briefly and had the pleasure of voting for him in his successful run for Congress in 2008. Periello always knew which party reflected his own values. Northam voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and ran as a Demcrat forthe state senate in 2007 because he didn't stand a chance of unseating the Republican incumbent in the primary. Always beware of conversions borne by expedience. The GOP can have him back.
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:53 AM
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One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator.
If you really wanted to understand, you would. In short, he outgrew his youthful ignorance and recanted.

You might also look into the Southern Strategy, while you're at it.
  #97  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite View Post
One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator. Perhaps because the governor at times in West Virginia was a Republican and could pick his replacement?
What the fuck were they supposed to do? They couldnít stop him from running as a Democrat.

Quote:
If the Lt. Governor happened to be a Republican, it would be fascinating to see the responses here.
What an incredibly shitty and hypocritical comment. The responses would be exactly the same. What was fascinating was all of the comments from Republicans at first who were eagerly waiting for ďspinĒ from tbe Democrats. Instead, without exception, they all called for him to resign. Iím sorry that you were disappointed by them doing the right thing.
  #98  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:55 AM
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One thing I never quite understood is why the Democrats tolerated the presence of Senator Robert Byrd, a known KKK Man as a Democratic Senator.
It's because he never sought to hide his past, and admitted and recognized how terrible it was, and apologized for it, committing himself to opposing racism as a Senator.

However, the existence of a dead, reformed racist Democrat does not excuse the continued support of Republicans for many living unreformed and unapologetic racists, including the current occupant of the WH, who spent years spreading a racist, evidence free conspiracy theory, who has praised white supremacists, and who has said many racist things himself.
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Last edited by iiandyiiii; 02-02-2019 at 06:59 AM.
  #99  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:50 AM
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I will admit to being somewhat curious as to why this is only surfacing now, and not back during the campaign. It's not like yearbooks are deeply-buried secrets, and there are actual professionals in political campaigns paid to do opposition research.

But regardless of the reason, it's irrelevant. It has somehow turned up now, and it is disqualifying.
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:51 AM
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I also voted for him and think he has done a good job so far. He should resign.
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