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  #51  
Old 11-10-2017, 04:36 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Um, read that second article again. It seems to be satire. (Pretty good satire, too)
It might be. I was mostly referring to the headline. I didn't bother to read the article then and don't care to now. It was the result of a quick Googling to grab a couple of examples of people saying offensive things to / about whites generally. I think you can reasonably concede that it happens from time to time, even if this particular article is satire, right?
  #52  
Old 11-10-2017, 05:36 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Of course there are. (Everyday Feminism is full of them!)

But that article is definitely satire, and the author points that out in the comments to people who don't recognize it as such. I think you should read it, before just linking something in haste. (Mostly because it illustrates what you're trying to say)

Last edited by Guinastasia; 11-10-2017 at 05:37 PM.
  #53  
Old 11-10-2017, 09:01 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Of course there are. (Everyday Feminism is full of them!)

But that article is definitely satire, and the author points that out in the comments to people who don't recognize it as such. I think you should read it, before just linking something in haste. (Mostly because it illustrates what you're trying to say)
On your advice, I'll go back and read it.
  #54  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:21 PM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
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Same way you deal with anyone expressing anything positive related to their identity. Or is it that it’s saying “white” grounds for different treatment?
"White" isn't an actual ethnic group.

Polish, Danish, Slovak, Swedish, those are ethnic groups. "White American" isn't, really.
  #55  
Old 11-10-2017, 10:41 PM
Stringbean Stringbean is offline
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Last I checked, and I may be wrong, it IS okay to be white.

But I suppose some interpret that statement as a provocation. No real need to be posting flyers around town about it.
  #56  
Old 11-10-2017, 11:19 PM
rat avatar rat avatar is offline
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Originally Posted by Stringbean View Post
Last I checked, and I may be wrong, it IS okay to be white.

But I suppose some interpret that statement as a provocation. No real need to be posting flyers around town about it.
Yep, nothing wrong with having light skin, just like it shouldn't be a problem to have darker skin. No one has a choice what traits their parents give them.

But there is a reason why it it can be so confusing for people, and that is because the racial divide is intentionally ambiguous.

Really in the US the whole concept of "white" can be traced back to Bacon's Rebellion. Where poor whites, indentured servants and slaves all rose up together against the money holding elites. These rich land owners wanted to prevent another uprising and didn't want to concede to the domains of their workers.

They did this not by granting what would become 'white' people more rights but by throwing black people under the bus.

This worked, as they could point the poor whites at the poor blacks and say "well at least you aren't them"

Over time this was built on, over and over again.

So today people who have been told they are 'white' for centuries don't think that they are getting a deal but also have a hard time seeing the additional barriers others have to go through to even reach parity.

The problem isn't with being white, the problem is when you fight to try and maintain this racist stratification.

Not a single person who was labeled 'white' in the time of Bacon's rebellion would have identified with the term, but now racists can use that label to instill irrational fears from normal implicit biases with great effect.

There is no 'white', except in the context of that artificial social construct which is intentionally created to break up the alliances of people who otherwise have common needs and conserns.
  #57  
Old 11-11-2017, 01:35 AM
octopus octopus is offline
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Originally Posted by Hector_St_Clare View Post
"White" isn't an actual ethnic group.

Polish, Danish, Slovak, Swedish, those are ethnic groups. "White American" isn't, really.
That's cool. But black isn't an ethnic group either. Is it? Or brown? Or People of Color? These are just groupings loosely based on skin color.
  #58  
Old 11-11-2017, 08:55 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is offline
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Exactly. The statement makes no sense unless one buys into RW propaganda about how straight white christian males are under constant attack and may be the most oppressed group ever in the history of the world. Since that's not consistent with objective reality, one must be a racist to believe it. Ergo, only a racist would say "it's ok to be white."
Or, y'know, someone who's wrong. They might do that too.
  #59  
Old 11-11-2017, 11:16 AM
Blue Blistering Barnacle Blue Blistering Barnacle is offline
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As a white guy, all those tweet links do is make me laugh and roll my eyes. People shouldn't be so sensitive to what one (or two) lunatics say on social media. Besides if we want to play that game there is plenty of crazy on all sides of the social media spectrum, where will it lead us as a society to give credence to and worry about it all.

Here's my statement then: It's ok to be whoever you are

Can everyone just agree to that and we can all go about our business?
...my bolding...

I saw what you did there- very naughty. ::Wags Finger::

Sounds like saying, "All lives matter." Which many IRL (as well as many posters on this board) have equated with racism.
  #60  
Old 11-11-2017, 12:19 PM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
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That's cool. But black isn't an ethnic group either. Is it? Or brown? Or People of Color? These are just groupings loosely based on skin color.
Black Americans are a somewhat artificial ethnic group, but that's by necessity (they had their ethnicities taken away from them and had to create a new one).

White Americans (or some of them, more precisely) chose to stop keeping track of where their ancestors were from, it wasn't imposed on them. (This is less the case in New England and the Rust Belt than it is in the South: I'm fascinated by ethnicity and most of my white friends in Michigan knew what Euro countries their ancestries were from, it was very rare to hear someone self-describe as just "American").
  #61  
Old 11-11-2017, 12:47 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by Hector_St_Clare View Post
Black Americans are a somewhat artificial ethnic group, but that's by necessity (they had their ethnicities taken away from them and had to create a new one). ...
There are plenty of black Americans for whom this is not true.
  #62  
Old 11-11-2017, 01:46 PM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
There are plenty of black Americans for whom this is not true.
"Plenty" as in some millions of individuals but not a high proportion of all black Americans.

Of course, that article assesses only the percentage of immigrants themselves among black Americans, as opposed to all descendants of black immigrants who are aware of their specific black ethnic groups of origin. But AFAICT, it's still true that a large majority of black Americans are descended from African slaves whose specific ethnic heritage disappeared from knowledge.
  #63  
Old 11-11-2017, 02:05 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Blistering Barnacle View Post
. . . . Sounds like saying, "All lives matter." Which many IRL (as well as many posters on this board) have equated with racism.
Just to be properly nuanced, I wouldn't "equate" it with racism, rather than to say that it's a fig-leaf/dog-whistle for racism.

I have a friend who moved from southern California to Montana. She's very happy. She tole me how much she likes it there, because there aren't any Martians.

The first time she said that, I just blinked in total confusion. No Martians? Of course there aren't any... The second time she said it, I heard the dog-whistle.
  #64  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:02 PM
Apollyon Apollyon is offline
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No Martians? Of course there aren't any... The second time she said it, I heard the dog-whistle.
Dog-whistle I understand, but my Google-fu is failing me on Martian. Something to do with Red, or warlike? From context it must be some US minority group... Lil help with ignorance fighting please?
  #65  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:18 PM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
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Dog-whistle I understand, but my Google-fu is failing me on Martian. Something to do with Red, or warlike? From context it must be some US minority group... Lil help with ignorance fighting please?
I'm guessing from the speaker's contrasting of southern California with Montana that in this context "Martian" = "Mexican".
  #66  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:22 PM
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That's cool. But black isn't an ethnic group either. Is it? Or brown? Or People of Color? These are just groupings loosely based on skin color.
People of Color are targeted for discrimination by people who frankly don't care what their ethnicity is, white racists consider all who are not white to be inferiors.
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  #67  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:50 PM
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People of Color are targeted for discrimination by people who frankly don't care what their ethnicity is, white racists consider all who are not white to be inferiors.
Exactly this,'white' is a label of exclusion and not an ethnic group.

The definition changes to fit political goals. This is why Finnish or non-christian people were excluded in recent years.

The definition changes to be inclusive of 'Judeo Christians' in the 50s due to the red scare.

The clan was murdering Catholics just prior to that.
  #68  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:52 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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I'm guessing from the speaker's contrasting of southern California with Montana that in this context "Martian" = "Mexican".
I don't know absolutely for sure, but I think it was general-purpose rejection of diversity as we know it: bigotry against Mexicans, blacks, Vietnamese, middle-Easterners, etc.

(Vaguely ironic, as the nice lady in question is of Irish descent, and it just wasn't all that long ago that her people were the "Martians.")
  #69  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:26 PM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
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Or, Martians would be outer-space aliens, and thus perhaps a euphemism for "illegal aliens". (Which edges out "undocumented immigrant" as the silliest-sounding term for unauthorized residents.)

Last edited by Ludovic; 11-15-2017 at 04:27 PM.
  #70  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:13 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Blistering Barnacle View Post
...my bolding...

I saw what you did there- very naughty. ::Wags Finger::

Sounds like saying, "All lives matter." Which many IRL (as well as many posters on this board) have equated with racism.
And as with all lives matter it makes a statement that is factually true but totally misses the point in an insulting way. Its like saying to someone whose protesting the cutting off of their food stamps, "well hedge fund managers need to be able to feed their families too".
  #71  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:20 PM
PigArcher PigArcher is offline
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And as with all lives matter it makes a statement that is factually true but totally misses the point in an insulting way. Its like saying to someone whose protesting the cutting off of their food stamps, "well hedge fund managers need to be able to feed their families too".
All houses matter.
  #72  
Old 11-16-2017, 01:07 AM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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All Houses Matter: The Extended Cut

Straub's commentary on the response to the first comic should be required reading for this thread topic.
  #73  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:57 PM
Shamozzle Shamozzle is offline
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This just strikes me as the social science version of the classic "Dihydrogen Monoxide" punk, and those who think faster with their hearts than their heads are falling for it.
  #74  
Old 11-20-2017, 02:04 AM
DUCKofDEATH DUCKofDEATH is offline
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Sample story here. Background here (alt-right link, you've been warned).

What's the best way to deal with these douchebags?
I agree. They should find the thugs who pulled down those posters and give them a severe talking-to so they'll understand why diversity is something to be treasured.
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  #75  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:14 PM
POSTTOWN1978 POSTTOWN1978 is offline
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Sample story here. Background here (alt-right link, you've been warned).

What's the best way to deal with these douchebags?
Let them have freedom of speech.
and let them say whatever they want.
  #76  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:16 PM
POSTTOWN1978 POSTTOWN1978 is offline
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I agree. They should find the thugs who pulled down those posters and give them a severe talking-to so they'll understand why diversity is something to be treasured.

Diversity divides and far from a treasure.
  #77  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:21 PM
POSTTOWN1978 POSTTOWN1978 is offline
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Nobody needs to react, and in a perfect world nobody would give the trolls the attention they so desperately crave. But we don't live in that world. We all know people are going to react, and they're going to react in a way that gives the trolls exactly what they want -- a sense of victimization.

Given that we all know a reaction is inevitable, I'm asking what the best way to deal with it is.
I think the truth is that your scared most people are going to agree with them after studying their point of view.
  #78  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:22 PM
POSTTOWN1978 POSTTOWN1978 is offline
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So, it's NOT ok to be white? Or it is? or something else?
Of course its not ok to be white

whites are most hated race in the world

other race groups are very jealous of whites for the success they have
and the fact they get most dating choices
whites get most messages by far on any online dating site if u study this
  #79  
Old 11-23-2017, 12:49 AM
POSTTOWN1978 POSTTOWN1978 is offline
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Sample story here. Background here (alt-right link, you've been warned).

What's the best way to deal with these douchebags?
Oh yeh alt right link lol
so people should just instantly act like the alt right has no good points

their points are so strong people ban them.
are you serious?

THEY BAN THE ALT RIGHT BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED TO DEBATE THEM.
  #80  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:53 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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By the way, not only is it OK to be white, it makes life in Europe, Canada, the U.S. and Australia much easier.

Is there a single term we could use for this group? "Anglosphere" and "liberal democracies" don't quite fit in describing places where being white makes life easier. The beige-o-sphere?
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  #81  
Old 11-30-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by POSTTOWN1978 View Post
...

whites are most hated race in the world

...
I know you've been banned, so replying to you might be bad form or something. But if there were some small, tiny bit of truth to this hyperbolic claim, a reasonable person must admit that we've kind of earned it. I say "we" because I'm a Whitey.
  #82  
Old 11-30-2017, 05:47 PM
WillFarnaby WillFarnaby is offline
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Of course its not ok to be white

whites are most hated race in the world

other race groups are very jealous of whites for the success they have
and the fact they get most dating choices
whites get most messages by far on any online dating site if u study this
The most hated group also is the most coveted dating partner? Makes a lot of sense there.
  #83  
Old 11-30-2017, 06:30 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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The most hated group also is the most coveted dating partner? Makes a lot of sense there.
There's some sexist joke hidden in here about women and "bad boys"
  #84  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:49 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Oh yeh alt right link lol
so people should just instantly act like the alt right has no good points

their points are so strong people ban them.
are you serious?

THEY BAN THE ALT RIGHT BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED TO DEBATE THEM.
Really? Tell us more!

Oh.... wait.... you can't.
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  #85  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:56 AM
ExTank ExTank is offline
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The most hated group also is the most coveted dating partner? Makes a lot of sense there.
I hear that Hate Sex is best.

Overall: TL/DR, so bottom line me here, folks.

Is it, or is it not, OK to be white?

Need answer fast.

j/k

I've been white for 50 years.

I reckon I can live with myself for the last however many I have left in me.
  #86  
Old 12-01-2017, 11:21 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is online now
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Originally Posted by POSTTOWN1978 View Post
Oh yeh alt right link lol
so people should just instantly act like the alt right has no good points

their points are so strong people ban them.
are you serious?

THEY BAN THE ALT RIGHT BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED TO DEBATE THEM.
Nah, the alt right gets laughed out the room because we've already had the "debate" they want to have. And because that debate conclusively ended burning in a ditch covered in petrol one bright morning of 1945.
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  #87  
Old 12-01-2017, 12:43 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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  #88  
Old 12-01-2017, 01:49 PM
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One way is to stop creating an environment in which some white people feel - fairly or unfairly - that they are discriminated against.

Also, people don't usually "check their privilege." They just don't. Suppose a Ferrari owner lives in a neighborhood of Chevys and Fords and has to hear people talking about "Ferrari privilege." Chances are, he won't think, "Well, I am already lucky to own a $400,000 Ferrari when everyone else drives secondhand pickups and sedans." He may instead think, "Wow, they really don't like me due to who I am."
Yes. That's the entire point of reminding them to check their privilege. It's a reminder you are privileged, and that you need to check how it is influencing your arguments. If we did it all the time, we wouldn't need to be reminded.

And we can't change that environment, because that environment is just the fact that we try to help out minorities and treat them fairly, and get other people to do the same. Their complaints are always about not being left alone to be intolerant and hurt others.

Working class people are suffering, sure. Poor people get made fun of and called names and stuff. But white people? The majority is still white. They don't attack themselves.
  #89  
Old 12-01-2017, 01:59 PM
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I'm guessing from the speaker's contrasting of southern California with Montana that in this context "Martian" = "Mexican".
Huh. I could have sworn I'd heard of "Martian" being used as slang for black people, but I googled that and didn't find anything about that. I guess you're probably right.

----------

And, so I don't write a third post:

4chan has two groups of people: the actual racists, and the juveniles who get thrills out of pissing people off. Blurring the line is a lot about how the alt-right (as opposed to the racist groups of old) recruit. So we have a mixture of racists, provocateurs, and provacateurs on their way to becoming racist if they don't stop.

The only reason to ever say "It's OK to be ____" is if there are other people telling you that it's not okay to be ____. Given that no one says it's wrong to be white, the implication is that they are mixing up "white" and "racist," ala that sigh "Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white."

So, yeah, it's racist. If someone in Japan started saying "It's okay to be Japanese," I would assume they were freaking out over their government's new moves to try and pull in more foreigners due to the aging workforce. And if someone says "it's okay to be white," I can only assume they are freaking out at how we are treating minorities better than before.

At least "All lives matter" has a context where it would make sense. It just is a bad reply to "Black Lives Matter." But saying that it's okay to be white? The only world in which that makes sense is if there is systematic or otherwise widespread discrimination against white people.

And the only people who believe that are racists, complaining about how we're treating non-whites more equally.

Last edited by BigT; 12-01-2017 at 02:00 PM.
  #90  
Old 12-01-2017, 02:02 PM
BigT BigT is online now
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It's actually much broader than this.

NOTHING on 4chan is worth responding to or getting worked up about.

If the most effective response to a troll is not feeding him, merely visiting that hive of scum and villainy is volunteering to slop the pigs at a huge stinky pig farm.

In other words: "Forget it, Jake. It's 4chan."
And I guess I will make a third post.

You just described why the alt-right has the power they do. 4chan is where the alt-right recruits. Ignoring hives of racism and trollery doesn't actually make them go away. It creates echo chambers, where they can fester and grow.

Last edited by BigT; 12-01-2017 at 02:02 PM.
  #91  
Old 12-01-2017, 02:11 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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Huh. I could have sworn I'd heard of "Martian" being used as slang for black people, but I googled that and didn't find anything about that. I guess you're probably right. . . .
It might have meant that also. It's hard to say.

How high is the correlation between anti-black and anti-Hispanic bigotry? I'd guess someone suffering from one is pretty likely to suffer from both.

I guess it's good that some people are sufficiently ashamed of themselves to have to rely on coded language, rather than just out-and-out saying racist crap. It means there's still some social taboo against racism. (But...less today than a year ago.)
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Old 12-01-2017, 02:22 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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... So, yeah, it's racist...
Your position is that a sign saying "It's OK to be white" is racist?
  #93  
Old 12-01-2017, 03:04 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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Your position is that a sign saying "It's OK to be white" is racist?
Have you actually read the material alluded to in the OP? It's blatantly racist.

The statement can be racist, in context. And the OP pointed to one of those contexts.

It's like "All lives matter." It's unquestionably true...and racist when used in the context we've seen. It's like "Martian." It's code-language, used by bad people, for bad purposes.

"White people want to make the trains run on time." Factual, or a slur?
  #94  
Old 12-01-2017, 03:30 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Have you actually read the material alluded to in the OP? It's blatantly racist.

The statement can be racist, in context. And the OP pointed to one of those contexts.

It's like "All lives matter." It's unquestionably true...and racist when used in the context we've seen. It's like "Martian." It's code-language, used by bad people, for bad purposes.

"White people want to make the trains run on time." Factual, or a slur?
I'm pretty sure at least one of the main purposes was to highlight the silly depths to which usage of the label "racist" has sunk, and you're playing right along.
  #95  
Old 12-01-2017, 03:33 PM
Scylla Scylla is offline
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Once, long time ago, a black guy I know got mad at me and called me a "cracker". What can you do about such cultural ignorance, doesn't know a cracker from a peckerwood!
A cracker is just generic white trash while a peckerwood is extremely rural white trash (like lives in A cabin and traps and makes moonshine). In the hierarchy of these things a peckerwood is like the Kardashian of Crackers. Is this correct?
  #96  
Old 12-01-2017, 03:53 PM
Scylla Scylla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Your position is that a sign saying "It's OK to be white" is racist?
I think it is. White people generally understand that being white is pretty easy and normal and in most parts of the country elicits no special notice. Pointing it out is pointing out the obvious either unnecessarily or to make a specific point. If it is the former than one can consider why such a person feels it necessary to point out the obvious. It suggests an unusual emphasis and preoccupation with skin color, which in a white person might be a sign of racism. In a nonwhite person such a preoccupation might not be a suggestive due to the fact that their skin color might be an issue that they have to dea with on a regular basis.

If it is the latter, and a message is being sent, well... what do we think the message is?

I tend to read the message as “I am intolerant and unsympathetic of the plight of prejudice and discrimination towards minorities, and since I am white and addressing these issues might cause me a modicum of inconvenience I am going to claim that doing so is in fact prejudice against me. Ha! Touché! Aren’t I clever the way I have turned your tactics against you.”

Alternatively it might mean “I am a racist asshole who enjoys fucking with minorities and stirring up shit”

So yes, I think it’s racist. I say that as one who is deeply trouble by identity politics and the emphasis on race in today’s society. Generally speaking I think that somebody’s race should be the least interesting thing about them, and people who think otherwise whether they are talking about their own skin color or somebody else’s generally are not worth my time and effort.
  #97  
Old 12-01-2017, 06:07 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I'm pretty sure at least one of the main purposes was to highlight the silly depths to which usage of the label "racist" has sunk, and you're playing right along.
Unfortunately, you're "playing right along" also -- and it is with the public-relations agenda of the KKK and neo-Nazis. Do you really want to support their message?

(I am not accusing you of racism; I just think that you are doing exactly what you accused me of doing: minimalizing "racism" as a bad thing. You aren't a KKK member of a neo-Nazi...but you are saying things that are to their advantage.)
  #98  
Old 12-01-2017, 06:11 PM
coffeecat coffeecat is offline
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One thing white people don't have is the moral high ground with leftists; white people are racist oppressors. Some people may just be tired of existential guilt. True, it's not as bad as being thrown against the pavement because of your skin color, but just because one is wrong doesn't make the other right.
  #99  
Old 12-03-2017, 02:19 PM
Senn1 Senn1 is offline
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Perhaps in the US it's a bit different, but in the UK it's actually been taken quite seriously by some people. An increasing number of white people in the UK are feeling discriminated against and this sort of thing is gaining traction.

For example the BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) which is funded by a "TV License" for anyone wants to watch TV in the UK, has openly banned ALL white people from applying for some roles within the company, regardless of their background. If it was the other way around, of course, they would be reprimanded and likely jailed for racism. It did not even specifically say what type of "white" (So they could even be Serbian).

The BBC already had an over-representation of minority groups within employment, and it took zero other factors into consideration, so a black millionaire could apply but a white man about to be evicted with no parents or inheritance could not. And of course, areas where whites are heavily underrepresented, such as universities, it's brushed off as no issue.

Perhaps it is not at that stage yet in the states, but an increasing number of people in the UK are not feeling like the brakes are being put on with equality issues and they could easily spiral out of control if no respect is given for the principles that caused this mess in the first place.
  #100  
Old 12-03-2017, 02:41 PM
steronz steronz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senn1 View Post
For example the BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) which is funded by a "TV License" for anyone wants to watch TV in the UK, has openly banned ALL white people from applying for some roles within the company, regardless of their background. If it was the other way around, of course, they would be reprimanded and likely jailed for racism. It did not even specifically say what type of "white" (So they could even be Serbian).
Cite?

I went searching for this, and this is the only thing I came up with. If that's what you're referring to, then your characterization is misleading.

-- These internships are secured and advertised via an non-profit called Creative Access, whose stated mission is to "help young people, from under-represented communities throughout the UK, to access creative careers."
-- The "specific jobs" in question seem to be paid internships
-- The BBC hasn't banned ALL white people from anything, and there's nothing indicating that these internships aren't available to white people -- just that Creative Access won't help you get one if you're not a minority

I don't know if your characterization was intentional, but in my experience this strategy of playing fast and loose with the facts in order to sell a specific narrative is part and parcel of white nationalist movements. The actual story, "non-profit in the UK helps minorities get paid internships at media companies," wouldn't raise eyebrows. But repackaged as a "white people are under attack" story and it spreads like wildfire among people who want to sew hatred towards immigrants.
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