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  #101  
Old 12-22-2012, 11:06 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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Originally Posted by gallows fodder View Post
I also thought the film should have ended on the shot of Lincoln walking away down the hallway (minus the heart-string shot of his loyal servant gazing proudly on). The audience knows (or should know and it's their shame if they don't) that he's walking away to his death. We don't need to see that played out, and we especially don't need to see the hammily-acted scene of his son screaming and clutching the balcony railing in his grief.
My biggest complaint about Spielberg is his inability to just end a goddamn movie. It seems like he's got several endings in mind and can't figure out which one to use, so he uses all of them.
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  #102  
Old 12-22-2012, 04:14 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Originally Posted by gallows fodder View Post
...Speaking of subtlety, and so that I'm not entirely negative, let me just say I loved those moments when Daniel Day-Lewis would be sitting there, stooped and approachable, telling some folksy tale to the amusement of his audience, and then you would see a gleam in his eye of sharp intelligence and ferocity shining out behind that unassuming persona. I felt like that was Lincoln in a nutshell, and Day-Lewis was a genius for capturing that.
Well said. I particularly liked the story he told of the woman he once represented who was accused of murdering her husband, but everyone in the town sympathized with her because the man was such a beast. She asked him where she could get a good drink of water, and he said, "Tennessee."
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  #103  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:43 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is online now
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Resaw it this weekend and had a question. All of the scenes in the House, shouldn't there have been an assload of empty desks because of all of the missing representatives from the South?
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  #104  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:13 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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That's a good question. All the contemporary illustrations I've seen (I've never yet seen a photo of either the House or the Senate actually in session in that era) show a fully-occupied set of desks and chairs. Perhaps the absent Southern legislators' furniture was removed for the duration?

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun...t_Picture2.jpg
http://www.abrahamlincolnsclassroom...._BPR_large.jpg
http://www.historydc.org/exhibits/li...0on%20rose.jpg
http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/SCANSb/b-7526.jpg
http://hd.housedivided.dickinson.edu...61.preview.jpg
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  #105  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:45 AM
SpoilerVirgin SpoilerVirgin is online now
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
I've never yet seen a photo of either the House or the Senate actually in session in that era
Fascinating -- it looks like the first photograph of the Senate in session wasn't taken until 1938, although people may have taken photos earlier than that from cameras smuggled into the gallery. I don't think that would have been possible with the photographic equipment available in the 1860's, so it's probable that no photo exists.
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  #106  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:54 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Originally Posted by gallows fodder View Post
I also thought the film should have ended on the shot of Lincoln walking away down the hallway (minus the heart-string shot of his loyal servant gazing proudly on). The audience knows (or should know and it's their shame if they don't) that he's walking away to his death. We don't need to see that played out, and we especially don't need to see the hammily-acted scene of his son screaming and clutching the balcony railing in his grief.
I just saw the film today. I agree that it could easily have ended on that scene. (And Roger Ebert's review also mentioned this.)

But what was the significance of the gloves that William Slade handed to Lincoln but which he left on the table? There was an earlier scene in which Lincoln was polishing his boots while wearing white calfskin gloves and made a comment about them.
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  #107  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:17 PM
bup bup is offline
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Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Resaw it this weekend and had a question. All of the scenes in the House, shouldn't there have been an assload of empty desks because of all of the missing representatives from the South?
Good question. I'm not certain of the answer, but many senators and congressmen stayed loyal to the union. Kentucky had a state government that recognized its place in the union, and (I think) Tennessee had an out-but-loyal government.

Many reps would have been supplied by these skeleton governments. Really diehard Dixie states, I doubt it.
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  #108  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:26 PM
bup bup is offline
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Nevermind my last response. Kentucky was represented, but the other 10 Confederate states' seats were vacant.

Per wikipedia
, 56 out about 240 seats would have been vacant in the House during the lame duck session.
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  #109  
Old 01-02-2013, 01:40 PM
DiosaBellissima DiosaBellissima is offline
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Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post

But what was the significance of the gloves that William Slade handed to Lincoln but which he left on the table? There was an earlier scene in which Lincoln was polishing his boots while wearing white calfskin gloves and made a comment about them.
It's been a moment since I've seen the movie, but there was a back and forth earlier in the movie about his wife always wanting him to wear his gloves and him never doing it.
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  #110  
Old 04-06-2013, 05:43 PM
smokey78 smokey78 is offline
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I liked the way the assassination was handled. We all knew he was off the the theater, we see the footlights and ... wait a minute, this isn't Our American Cousin, it's a children's play! And of course Tad wasn't in Ford's Theater, so where's he going with this? Then the man interrupts the play to deliver the news- what a way for a boy to learn his father had been shot. No need to actually show the shooting, we've all seen it done in other movies and television documentaries and read about it. Then the death scene was done just right, and then fade out with the Second Inaugural Address
Yea, I didn't know Tad was watching another theatre production (thought really that was fictionalized yipes). Not sure if we should have seen him, go "They killed my Papa!" as was reported back then. But got really mushy when I saw on wiki of his reaction after his death, and he would be good and would eventually see Papa and Willie in heaven. (like only five yrs later) Also thought Stevens and the housekeeper at the end was fiction, so thankfully Wiki cleared that up. Haha.

I just saw it, pretty profound and DDL did his voice the way it was supposed to sound. I've often read Lincoln did not have a deep booming voice and that it was tinny and Kentuckian.

The scene I think about clearly was Tad randomly hugging his dad while he was writing that page contrasting to the handshake Robert from gets after arriving from Harvard.

DId James Spader lose some weight? I vaguely recognized him

Oh, ITA thought the film was going to end with Lincoln walking into the distance because we all know what was going to happen. Like, "Abe the man the myth the legend"

Last edited by smokey78; 04-06-2013 at 05:44 PM..
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  #111  
Old 04-06-2013, 05:48 PM
BrokenBriton BrokenBriton is offline
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We were lucky not to get his modern day relatives walking through the cemetary on a sun-kissed morning, perhaps with a little dew still on the ground.

#sentimentalbullshit
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  #112  
Old 04-06-2013, 09:20 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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I just saw it this week. I enjoyed it but I don't feel it was a great movie. Too Spielbergesque for me I guess.

I think the choice of making the passage of the 13th Amendment the centerpiece of the story was a bad one. It came too late in Lincoln's career. It was essentially his last battle. By that point, he had been re-elected and the war was drawing to a close. He had also established firm control over his administration and the war effort. As several characters in the movie said, Lincoln's stature at this point was very high. It diminished the challenge of the confrontation.

There's also the issue involved. Lincoln and his supporters were fighting to end slavery. It was about as clear cut a moral issue as you could hand the audience.

I think it would have been a more interesting film is they had focused on an earlier period of Lincoln's administration. Maybe in the beginning when he was surrounded by politicians who thought he had been elected by a fluke and they would have made a better President than he was. Show Lincoln winning these people over to the realization that he was a better politician than any of them were and gaining their respect.

Or maybe make the 1864 election campaign the basis of the story. The war's outcome was still in doubt and Lincoln had to fight to stay in office. Again it would have shown Lincoln facing a stronger challenge. And it would have been possible to portray the confrontation as a less one-sided struggle between good and evil.
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  #113  
Old 04-06-2013, 10:21 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
...I think it would have been a more interesting film is they had focused on an earlier period of Lincoln's administration. Maybe [1] in the beginning when he was surrounded by politicians who thought he had been elected by a fluke and they would have made a better President than he was. Show Lincoln winning these people over to the realization that he was a better politician than any of them were and gaining their respect.

Or maybe [2] make the 1864 election campaign the basis of the story. The war's outcome was still in doubt and Lincoln had to fight to stay in office. Again it would have shown Lincoln facing a stronger challenge. And it would have been possible to portray the confrontation as a less one-sided struggle between good and evil.
I agree, either would've made for a very different - perhaps even better - movie.

[1] Doris Kearns Goodwin's Team of Rivals, to which Spielberg bought the rights, focuses a great deal on this.

[2] I highly recommend John C. Waugh's Reelecting Lincoln for this story.
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  #114  
Old 04-06-2013, 11:57 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
I highly recommend John C. Waugh's Reelecting Lincoln for this story.
I've read it and I'd second your recommendation.
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