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Old 06-15-2019, 08:32 AM
Wesley Clark is offline
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What all nations sided with Hong Kong in their protests against the Chinese extradition law


I know Taiwan did, which makes perfect sense since they know they'd be next on the hit list.

But what all nations said they support Hong Kong? And did those nations have enough power to intimidate China?
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:02 AM
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It looks as if the protestors are doing okay without foreign support. The very words "foreign support" might well have the opposite effect than you might expect. The Chinese government might give way to its own citizens, but any hint of foreigners and that may well stiffen their resolve.

Anyway, where have you seen reports of this support - I could find none.
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:43 AM
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN1TE0SX

It seems to me if enough trading partners got together and told China not to do this, it would make China less willing to engage in these kinds of behaviors. Places like Japan, South Korea, Australia, Taiwan, New Zealand, etc. may not be strong in isolation but if they unify with Europe, North America, etc. then thats a pretty big economic bloc that can threaten China.
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:49 AM
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China has always intended to bring Hong Kong in. The last thing they want is any example of free thought on their border. They've done it more gradually than I expected, but nothing will deter them. Internal security is the premiere concern of a communist government.

No outside governments are going to give up billions of dollars in trade for Hong Kong, especially when they all know it's futile in the first place.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:14 AM
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Remember Tiananmen Square.

China will not back down. At all. They would shoot everyone before letting them "win".

They will try to tread lightly and handle it delicately but if it becomes an "us or them" situation then "them" will lose...violently probably.

The Chinese government has never been know for its restraint and they now have what amounts to a dictator in power. Dictators are especially not cool with protests.
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Old 06-15-2019, 01:41 PM
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[Moderating]

Asking for a list of nations is GQ. But since it seems that everyone in this thread, including the OP, wants to get into the hows and whys, this is much better suited for GD. Moving.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:11 PM
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Hong Kong is culturally not like the rest of China, and even on the Southern Mainland, in Guangdong, people are known for their outspokenness relative to the rest of China. People in Guangdong are more likely to protest local corruption and dodgy business practices, and there's a little more tolerance of it from the authorities provided that they don't criticize the CCP directly and don't go too far. What China probably worries about more than anything is having word and images of these protests spilling into neighboring Guangzhou and Shenzhen, both of which are close enough to receive radio and TV broadcasts. And even if people don't get these images directly on broadcasts, that region is a vital economic nerve center with millions of people in transit daily. I'm not sure how likely or possible it is for China to bring in the heavy hand of the People's Liberation Army, but my guess is that would be a colossal mistake if they tried that approach.

OTOH, the smart approach for the US and the outside world would be to ask authorities to show restraint, but probably leave it at that. Any country that thrusts itself directly into that protest is going to be bluntly told to fuck off, and it would probably make China even more determined to crush the resistance using any means at its disposal. It's a Chinese affair as far as China is concerned.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:54 PM
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Did the UK side with Hong Kong? Didn't their handing Hong Kong over require them to stand up for Hong Kong's autonomy?
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Did the UK side with Hong Kong? Didn't their handing Hong Kong over require them to stand up for Hong Kong's autonomy?
I'm pretty sure that when the UK's lease on Hong Kong expired, it lost all power. There's a treaty guaranteeing capitalism for 50 years, but we all know how secure treaties are. The UK has about as much influence on Hong Kong as Spain has on Puerto Rico.

There is news, however.

Hong Kong’s leader suspends China extradition bill following mass protests

Quote:
Hong Kong’s chief executive Carrie Lam will “indefinitely suspend” a contentious extradition bill that would allow Hong Kong citizens to be extradited to mainland China following a series of massive and sometimes violent street protests.
But:
Quote:
Lam, who is reportedly known for “never backing down in a fight,” had previously vowed to press on with the bill, comparing protesters to “stubborn children,” even after as many as 1 million people took to the streets last Sunday. A follow-up protest delayed a debate on the bill Wednesday.

Although the bill’s progress through the city’s legislative council has been delayed, Lam said the measure has not been abandoned.
My guess is that she will wait for the anger to die down and quietly push it through, but this is still good news.
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:27 PM
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My guess is that she will wait for the anger to die down and quietly push it through, but this is still good news.
She will, and they will almost surely protest again, and they will dare China to do something about it.

This is an example that Americans ought to bookmark for future reference. It is clear that the Trump administration and the right wing wants to change our current political identity from democratic republic to merely a constitutional republic with restricted democratic influence (i.e. the right people can vote, everyone else can go to hell). We're sliding into authoritarianism, but it's not hopeless. People have power. They just need to exercise it.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:14 AM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/16/w...-protests.html

On second thought, looks like the people of Hong Kong aren't going to just leave it to chance. They want Lam gone - now. This is the smart move, even if it risks retribution from Beijing. Don't wait for China to do an end-run. Confront Beijing. Force China's hand. Just as Beijing has trying to put everyone at ease about its ascendant, Beijing has similarly been trying to convince the world that HK's integration into China won't threaten it's identity and character (too much). Hong Kong knows better; they know full well what's at stake. Their identity as a free or even semi-free state is on the line.

It's Beijing's move now. I suspect what we'll see over the coming months and years is a movement by Beijing to polarize Hong Kong politically. They'll probably find ways to push more nationalistic mainlanders into positions not of economic, social, and political influence. They'll try to invade HK and drown the freedom fighters out. They also might threaten to cut off trade, but actually doing so would be a dumb move, particularly at a time when the rest of the world is increasingly skeptical of doing business with China.

Last edited by asahi; 06-16-2019 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
My guess is that she will wait for the anger to die down and quietly push it through, but this is still good news.
A smart (from the POV of the government) move. I've noticed this practice in local politics. Sometimes the second time around doesn't bring the same volume of protests.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:56 AM
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A smart (from the POV of the government) move. I've noticed this practice in local politics. Sometimes the second time around doesn't bring the same volume of protests.
Hong Kong's residents aren't dumb; they know this is a possibility, which is why they're demanding that Lam resign now. They want to send a message to HK's government, and to Beijing, that they are not going to just go quietly into the night.

Again, if people are in despair about what to do about Trumpian/Republican/Conservative authoritarianism, this is your example. Don't wait for Bob Mueller, House Democrats, Supreme Court, or Joe Biden to be your hero. There's only one way to deal with rulers who don't play by rules: civil disobedience. Not violence, not rioting and looting, but organized, peaceful demonstration. Refuse to be governed. It can't be just an urban movement, though; there has to be a grassroots movement that is inclusive to disparities that exist in urban and rural areas, of which there are many in both contexts.

What those kids did in the wake of the Stoneman Douglas shooting? More of that. We saw how quickly Rick Scott signed *something*, anything into law. There is something primal about seeing masses of people in the streets telling you to get your shit together. Every leader understands that.

Last edited by asahi; 06-16-2019 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:50 PM
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It looks as if the protestors are doing okay without foreign support. The very words "foreign support" might well have the opposite effect than you might expect. The Chinese government might give way to its own citizens, but any hint of foreigners and that may well stiffen their resolve. ....
China is already blaming foreign agitators, though.
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Old 06-16-2019, 03:56 PM
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I know Taiwan did, which makes perfect sense since they know they'd be next on the hit list.

But what all nations said they support Hong Kong? And did those nations have enough power to intimidate China?
Per Wikipedia, in addition to the RoC, Canada, USA, UK, the EU, Japan, and South Korea have made statements supporting the protests.
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Old 06-16-2019, 06:37 PM
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China is already blaming foreign agitators, though.
I think that the Chinese media referred to the protestors as Western or American pawns, as if they're being tricked into doing this by the devious West. It's their way reminding Hong Kongers about colonialism and the opium wars.

I suspect that Beijing is embarrassed beyond all hell right now, and they're probably trying to figure out a face-saving way out of this mess. I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to send in the PLA and crush them the way they did the students in the Beijing protests back in 1989, but dealing with Hong Kong is a lot more complicated and the consequences to China would be severe in terms of their global image. If they were to violently suppress otherwise mostly peaceful demonstrators, it would roil the market, but beyond that, I think a lot of countries would protest and reposition resources so that they become a little less dependent on Chinese growth.

But the one thing Beijing absolutely wants to avoid is to have this inspire an uprising in South China. There's no evidence so far that it would, but it would be a nightmare if that happened.

Last edited by asahi; 06-16-2019 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:12 PM
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My guess is that she will wait for the anger to die down and quietly push it through, but this is still good news.
I think Beijing told her to drop the law and will not bring it forth in its current form. I seriously don't think that they expected that reaction, and the hong kong dollar has to be a golden goose for them and not something they want to risk in a perilous economic situation that they currently find themselves in.
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