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  #51  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:24 AM
Johnny Ace Johnny Ace is offline
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Originally Posted by sleestak View Post
Golly gee, I didn't realize everything was black and white. That makes it muuuuch easier to assume the worst about the other side.

Or possibly, it is a combination of factors. As I noted in my post (which you apparently want to ignore), Trump being President is certainly part of it. But there are other factors which could change the calculus. Do you think Russian aggression since 2013 may have changed some peoples minds? For example, Russia invading Ukraine and wanting to annex Crimea, MH 17 being shot down, Russia's little submarine adventure in Swedish territorial waters in 2014, the numerous instances of Russian aircraft chasing U.S. and our allies military craft, Russian intervention in Syria and so on.

Also, do you remember back in 2012 when Obama said:



in reference to Romney calling Russia a geopolitical foe? Do you think that Obama and his attitude about Russia might, just might, be mirrored by liberals while Republicans take a different view? Hell, do you think Russia is a geopolitical foe?

Like I said, Trump is probably part of it but a lot has changed.

Slee
So...let me see if I've got this straight. A missile attack on Syria was far more approved of by Republicans now than Republicans in 2013 because Russia (who were untouched by the raid), but Democrats' attitude remained nearly unchanged? Uh, tell me another whopper.
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  #52  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:36 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ace View Post
So...let me see if I've got this straight. A missile attack on Syria was far more approved of by Republicans now than Republicans in 2013 because Russia (who were untouched by the raid), but Democrats' attitude remained nearly unchanged? Uh, tell me another whopper.
Circumlocution though it may be, this is still an accusation of lying. That'll earn you a warning. Please don't do it again.
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  #53  
Old 04-23-2017, 08:43 PM
sleestak sleestak is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny Ace View Post
So...let me see if I've got this straight. A missile attack on Syria was far more approved of by Republicans now than Republicans in 2013 because Russia (who were untouched by the raid), but Democrats' attitude remained nearly unchanged? Uh, tell me another whopper.
So, nothing except Trump being president has changed since 2013? Every other possible factor has stayed the same?

Slee
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  #54  
Old 04-24-2017, 10:29 AM
Airbeck Airbeck is offline
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Originally Posted by sleestak View Post
So, nothing except Trump being president has changed since 2013? Every other possible factor has stayed the same?

Slee
And your theory is that only Republicans are aware of these changes, and the Democrats are what, all oblivious, or mentally still in 2013 or something?

This makes more sense to you than its just that the Republicans changed their minds because their guy is making the decision now?

Occam's razor should help here
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  #55  
Old 04-24-2017, 12:42 PM
sleestak sleestak is offline
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Originally Posted by Airbeck View Post
And your theory is that only Republicans are aware of these changes, and the Democrats are what, all oblivious, or mentally still in 2013 or something?

This makes more sense to you than its just that the Republicans changed their minds because their guy is making the decision now?

Occam's razor should help here
My theory is that things changed and so did the thinking. Also, will you acknowledge that I specifically stated that some Rs are in favor of it because of Trump? Not all but some. For the record, it is called nuance. Not everything is black and white.

The Democrats, in general, have been the anti-war party since Viet Nam. After Iraq, this seems to be even more set in place. For example, in 2003 the Ds supported going into Iraq at about 52% for vs. 45% against while the Rs were 84% for vs 14% against. A poll in 2015 asked respondents whether they supported the Iraq war in 2003. Note, this isn't asking if the war was a mistake, it is asking people to remember if they supported the war back in 2003. Rs come in at 52 for vs 45 against. That is a big change considering the poll is asking if the about past support for the war. Clearly a lot of people are not remembering what they believed at the time. Now for the Ds, in 2015 the numbers are 19% for vs. 65% against. So, in 2003 52% of Ds supported the Iraq war but in 2015 only 19% remember supporting it. Link. That, to me, points to a large swing in anti-war feelings.

I fully believe that the Ds are aware of the geo-political changes since 2003. I also fully believe that those changes do not matter to Ds while they do matter to Rs.

I believe that, for a majority of Ds, the idea of using military force at all is bad no matter what the circumstances. This is, as far as I can tell, quite a change as in the past the Ds were more willing to use the military for humanitarian missions while being against military intervention if the motivation was viewed as financial (no war for oil). It seems that the switch has been flipped to no military intervention at all for a large percentage of Ds.

For the Rs, I suspect that the fact that Russia is supporting Assad in Syria, along with Russia flexing its military muscles the Ukraine and other areas, brings back the cold war days. In fact, there are a bunch of folks talking about it.

Slee
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  #56  
Old 04-30-2017, 03:57 PM
Beren Erchamion Beren Erchamion is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
There are a whole lot of people who identify as both Christian and conservative.
There are also a lot of people who think that vaccines cause autism; what's your point?
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  #57  
Old 04-30-2017, 04:10 PM
Velocity Velocity is offline
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Originally Posted by Beren Erchamion View Post
Contradiction in terms. Jesus's message is pretty fucking subversive, even today. If you oppose it, you're not a "Christian" in any meaningful sense.
You mean things like:

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away?"


and

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished?"


and

"give back to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's?"
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  #58  
Old 05-02-2017, 12:19 AM
Great White Dope Great White Dope is offline
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  #59  
Old 05-02-2017, 12:26 AM
Great White Dope Great White Dope is offline
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https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...2b&oe=595E9147

Where criticisms of President Obama/Trump based off of his golfing habits valid and justified?
D: 4%/68% (64% bias for Obama)
R: 54%/22% (32% bias for Trump)
I: 30%/47% (17% bias for Obama
L: 41%/43% (2% bias for Obama)

The above poll shows what I've repeatedly witnessed: Democrats are far more partisan than Republicans.
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  #60  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:17 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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Originally Posted by Great White Dope View Post
https://scontent.ftpa1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...2b&oe=595E9147

Where criticisms of President Obama/Trump based off of his golfing habits valid and justified?
D: 4%/68% (64% bias for Obama)
R: 54%/22% (32% bias for Trump)
I: 30%/47% (17% bias for Obama
L: 41%/43% (2% bias for Obama)

The above poll shows what I've repeatedly witnessed: Democrats are far more partisan than Republicans.
Perhaps one thing worth taking note of in this case is that Trump bragged about being the president who would work non-stop for the American people and never take vacations,
and that Trump plays far more golf than Obama, and that Trump attacked Obama for playing golf so much. This is an entirely relevant distinction; Obama never used "I'm never going to play golf" as a selling point or a campaign strategy. He also didn't golf during the first few months of his presidency.
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  #61  
Old 05-02-2017, 02:41 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Perhaps one thing worth taking note of in this case is that Trump bragged about being the president who would work non-stop for the American people and never take vacations,
and that Trump plays far more golf than Obama, and that Trump attacked Obama for playing golf so much. This is an entirely relevant distinction; Obama never used "I'm never going to play golf" as a selling point or a campaign strategy. He also didn't golf during the first few months of his presidency.
Pah - facts! What's important here is my feelings about who is more partisan.
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  #62  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:14 AM
septimus septimus is offline
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Originally Posted by Great White Dope View Post
Pro tip for Mr. Dope:

The Board's more respected conservatives try to demonstrate erudition by linking to sources for their claims. Yes, they usually link to Forbes, Washington Times, or the Heritage stink tank, but from there we're only a click or a Google away from an actual journalist or scholastic source.

You, OTOH, link to an unsourced eye-jarring graphic you found on Facebook. Whether its numbers are valid or not is besides the point others have pointed out why your conclusions are wrong but do yourself a favor next time: Providing no cite at all is better than a link like that!
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  #63  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:42 AM
Shodan Shodan is online now
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Another tip for Great White Dope - there exists no reason to take septimus' latest post seriously.

Regards,
Shodan
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