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  #351  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:38 PM
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He almost said "Our words are backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS".
  #352  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:41 PM
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Trump was getting suckered into a summit he was completely unprepared for. I just wonder who convinced Trump to back out of it, and how that final discussion went down.
  #353  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:01 PM
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You know how dumb people, when talking to somebody who speaks English as a second language, will drift into fractured language or an accent, in some weird way to try to help the discussion along? I've seen Trump do it when he over-exaggerates the names of places (like Puerto Rico).

This letter reads like it is a bad translation. It's almost like they took a letter, had google translate it into Korean, and then back into English. So weird.
  #354  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:04 PM
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Cancelling the summit is, in fact, a good move. The summit would probably turn into an embarrassing debacle, either devolving into acrimony, or Trump giving away the store to the North Koreans because they flattered him.

But it's like getting credit for taking up smoking and then giving up smoking. "There was something stupid and irresponsible that I was going to do, but now I'm not going to do it. Where's my Nobel Prize?"

It's just sad that certain people aren't here to applaud this masterful diplomatic move by a master statesman.
  #355  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:05 PM
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My guess is that Trump gets pissed off if something he writes gets "cleaned up" to the point where it's clearly not him. Competent staffers probably refuse to touch his copy anymore, so his dictation got handed off to somebody whose primary qualification for writing official material is that they've seen a bunch of episodes of Judge Judy.
  #356  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:16 PM
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I believe it was around the time of the Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO, that one of the principals (perhaps Shimon Peres), when questioned about the advisability of entering into an agreement with the PLO, pointed out that (paraphrased) “You don’t hold peace talks with your friends; you hold them with your enemies.”
  #357  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:18 PM
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Well, that's what happens when you try negotiate with a crazy, erratic, egotistical leader, surrounded by sycophants and warmongers.

I'm sure Kim has learned a valuable lesson.

Last edited by GreenWyvern; 05-24-2018 at 02:20 PM.
  #358  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:22 PM
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You missed something here: the party representing the United States is lead by Donald Trump.

How did you forget this, Ditka?
“LED by,” damnit!
  #359  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:29 PM
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“LED by,” damnit!
Light Emitting Diodes?
  #360  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:37 PM
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Light emitting diodes are smarter.
  #361  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:52 PM
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I'm assuming at this point the next summit will be with that Nigerian prince that he's been in contact with.
  #362  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:06 PM
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Cancelling the summit is, in fact, a good move. The summit would probably turn into an embarrassing debacle, either devolving into acrimony, or Trump giving away the store to the North Koreans because they flattered him.

But it's like getting credit for taking up smoking and then giving up smoking. "There was something stupid and irresponsible that I was going to do, but now I'm not going to do it. Where's my Nobel Prize?"

It's just sad that certain people aren't here to applaud this masterful diplomatic move by a master statesman.
More like when a friend pulls you out of a crooked poker game when you'd already bet and lost the grocery money, but before you bet the mortgage money.
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:40 PM
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I think this qualifies as proof positive that there is no real "deep state" with any power. Because if there were, Trump would be dead before this letter saw the light of day.

Poor diplomacy, particularly misunderstood or poorly-worded diplomatic missives, were the cause of World War 1, World War 2, and the first Iraq War, at the very least. And this? This is a "poorly-worded diplomatic missive" in the same way that that VHS from "The Ring" that causes you to die in 7 days is a "bad movie". It looks like it was written by someone who barely speaks english. It looks like someone with serious dementia ran copy through google translate twice. The overall messaging is nonsensical, dangerous, and schizophrenic.

All in all this may not be the worst diplomatic missive ever (feel free to present worse ones if you think you have them), but it does serve as a handy proof positive against the "deep state" conspiracy theory. Because if there actually was a deep state, or a secret police, or some bullshit illuminaughty conspiracy pulling strings behind the scenes, anyone who thought this was a good idea would be dead before the fucking ink dried.
  #364  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:58 PM
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..Poor diplomacy, particularly misunderstood or poorly-worded diplomatic missives, were the cause of World War 1, World War 2,
It was Germany wanting to run Europe. In WWI Gavrillo Princeps was the excuse. They were rather more honest about it in WWII.
  #365  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:14 PM
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It's amazing how often this administration can take a bad idea, suddenly realize it, and then back away from it in the most stupid way possible.
You're selling them short. They back away stupidly from good ideas, too.
  #366  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:15 PM
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All in all this may not be the worst diplomatic missive ever (feel free to present worse ones if you think you have them)
The Zimmerman telegram and the Ems dispatch.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 05-24-2018 at 04:15 PM.
  #367  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:28 PM
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The letter canceling the summit is a wonder to behold, and I don't mean that in a good way. It has be a new low in diplomacy. It is, in fact, so riddled with awkward phrasing, bad grammar, and incomprehensible logic that a two-bit tinpot dictatorship would have been embarrassed by it. It's so awful that I'm thinking Trump himself must have written parts of it, or else everyone working for him is both incompetent and illiterate in equal measure.

A few choice bits:
We were informed that the meeting was requested by North Korea, but that to us is totally irrelevant.
What??? I repeat, what??? WTF does this even mean?
Sadly, based on the tremendous anger and open hostility displayed in your most recent statement, ...
Nice move. The first thing to do in any diplomatic communication is insult the other party by blaming them for everything and calling them a bunch of angry and hostile meanies.
Therefore, please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place.
"Please let this letter serve to represent" is not a phrase I have ever seen in any language that I speak. This is then followed by the inscrutable observation that canceling the summit is somehow good for the US and North Korea, but terrible for the rest of the world.
You talk about nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used.
This has to be the first time in history that a US diplomatic communication has ever stated "mine is way bigger than yours" and "we is so big and mighty youse don't wanna mess with us". This has "Trump" written all over it. It has to be.
Some day, I look very much forward to meeting you.
That would be "I very much look forward to meeting you someday". But, hey, what's two ungrammatical word transpositions and one spelling mistake for every ten words, other than it sounds like it was written by a newly arrived immigrant from one of those famous African shitholes who was just starting his ESL course?
If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit, please do not hesitate to call me or write.
Wait a minute. Who's the one doing the canceling here? How does this make even the remotest bit of sense? Also, "if you change your mind having to do with ..." is not actually English, but at this point it hardly even matters.
As I read this I kept telling myself "This must be a whoosh, there is no way we (the United States) would send a formal diplomatic letter written like that. So I went and found it on the NY Times site (many others) and yes, it is that bad. I used to write letters to the military chiefs of foreign countries, literally dozens of letters some of which touched on rather touchy topics, and I don't think I ever wrote one as poorly composed as that. There are one or two sentences that I would expect to see (the first sentence of the letter and the one about freeing the hostages), but everything else...I would have been embarrassed to send such drivel.

Has the diplomatic corps been so relegated to the sidelines without even being able to make editing suggestions? IMHO, Trump and Pompeo put this masterpiece together without running it by anyone.

Half the writers here at the Dope demonstrate more competence with the English language than this monstrosity of a note does.

Sorry for the rant-like portion, but I took my writing letters representing the US Government (albeit on a much lower level) much more seriously than this.
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Last edited by The Stainless Steel Rat; 05-24-2018 at 04:32 PM.
  #368  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:28 PM
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...but Most Supporters Have Said They Want This Heirloom of Political History Regardless of Outcome.

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Doesn't that just perfectly encapsulate the entire problem with Trump Supporters?
I'm sure someone now realizes they could have an entire set of failed outcome coins - Repealed Obamacare - Mighty Muslim Ban - Built the Wall - and his idiot fans would buy them all. Profit!
  #369  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:30 PM
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And this? This is a "poorly-worded diplomatic missive" in the same way that that VHS from "The Ring" that causes you to die in 7 days is a "bad movie". It looks like it was written by someone who barely speaks english. It looks like someone with serious dementia ran copy through google translate twice. The overall messaging is nonsensical, dangerous, and schizophrenic.
That's because Trump personally dictated every word of the letter.
  #370  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:34 PM
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sigh.......
  #371  
Old 05-24-2018, 05:44 PM
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The diplomatic error of the Zimmermann Telegram was Zimmermann publicly admitting it was true
  #372  
Old 05-24-2018, 05:44 PM
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I have no idea how this sort of thing works, but I would think that communications with foreign governments would be written by someone familiar with the language, politics and culture of those countries. That sounds like a note Trump would write to a girl that stood him up on a junior high date.
  #373  
Old 05-24-2018, 05:47 PM
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Wow. No wonder much of it came across as word salad
  #374  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:00 PM
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Are the coins for sale on ebay real cheap now?
  #375  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:12 PM
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The utter, embarrassing cluelessness that permeates that whole administration is endlessly amusing. I can imagine asking the aforementioned White House official, "are you sure he dictated every word?" And the official replying, "Oh, yes, every word is his own". And then, if the official happened to have a few more brain cells than the rest of them, he might detect a kind of stunned silence that seemed to regard this as a shameless confession of historic proportions, and he might ask, "Why, was there something wrong with it?"

Meanwhile Trump, basking in the Dunning–Kruger effect like a warm bath of numbing ignorance, probably imagines this to be the most brilliant diplomatic missive ever dispatched in the history of the USA.
  #376  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:41 PM
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You misspelled “in the history of diplomatic missives.”
  #377  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:42 PM
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nm

Last edited by Buck Godot; 05-24-2018 at 06:43 PM.
  #378  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:53 PM
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Meanwhile Trump, basking in the Dunning–Kruger effect like a warm bath of numbing ignorance, probably imagines this to be the most brilliant diplomatic missive ever dispatched in the history of the USA.
Exactly.

Basically it looks like Trump thought that the only difference between the 4th grade reading level that he normally uses and the highfalutin language of diplomats is that they use bigger words like "irrelevant" and "negotiations" and "dialogue", and that they sometimes use an unusual word order, so as long as he does this, his writing is just as good as theirs.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 05-24-2018 at 06:55 PM.
  #379  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:55 PM
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On the positive side, by dictating it, he got all the words spelled correctly.
  #380  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:58 PM
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Basically it looks like Trump thought that the only difference between the 4th grade reading level that he normally uses and the highfalutin language of diplomats is that they use bigger words like "irrelevant" and "negotiations" and "dialogue", and that they sometimes use an unusual word order, so as long as he does this, his writing is just as good as theirs.
We've elected Oswald Bates.
  #381  
Old 05-24-2018, 06:59 PM
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I'm sure someone now realizes they could have an entire set of failed outcome coins - Repealed Obamacare - Mighty Muslim Ban - Built the Wall - and his idiot fans would buy them all. Profit!
You've got it arse about.

Were such a set available as a furriner I'd buy one as a hoot and emblematic

They'd sell them out to DEMs who'd put them on a rope and jangle them at every TRUMP event until he left office, though on current form that might not be until January 20, 2025.
By that stage you'd probably need a forklift to move whole bunch. MAGA.
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  #382  
Old 05-24-2018, 07:08 PM
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I thought that was the case as I read the first paragraph.

It's got that home spun, plain spoken, sewer rat with a gold tooth vibe to it.
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  #383  
Old 05-24-2018, 07:45 PM
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You know how dumb people, when talking to somebody who speaks English as a second language, will drift into fractured language or an accent, in some weird way to try to help the discussion along? I've seen Trump do it when he over-exaggerates the names of places (like Puerto Rico).

This letter reads like it is a bad translation. It's almost like they took a letter, had google translate it into Korean, and then back into English. So weird.
That last paragraph was my thoughts as well... "Did they try to write this in 'translated Korean'? Is that even a thing?"
  #384  
Old 05-24-2018, 07:55 PM
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I have no idea how this sort of thing works, but I would think that communications with foreign governments would be written by someone familiar with the language, politics and culture of those countries.
Those taking dictation clearly thought it was a series of tweets meant to sound Trump-like.
Quote:
That sounds like a note Trump would write to a girl that stood him up on a junior high date.
Should we be glad that he isn't or afraid he'll continue in that vein?
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:58 PM
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Doesn't that just perfectly encapsulate the entire problem with Trump Supporters?
Oh, I dunno. One of those could be the foundation piece of a collection commemorating failures of one sort or another. One of those coins, representing the wholly expected failure of Trump's administration to get anything right. A piece of V2 rocket signed by Werner von Braun, representing Hitler's failure to bomb England into submission. A piece of the Titanic's funnel ... the possibilities are endless.
  #386  
Old 05-24-2018, 08:05 PM
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Gabriel Garcia Marquez didn't exactly write fantasy, but books like 100 Years of Solitude were somewhat surreal.
Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, tim314 thought, "Well, it still beats the Trump years."
  #387  
Old 05-24-2018, 08:07 PM
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Because there really IS a Shakespeare quote for every possible occasion:

"This letter, being so excellently ignorant, will breed no terror in the youth: he will find it comes from a clodpole." -- Twelfth Night
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  #388  
Old 05-24-2018, 08:49 PM
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He's going to get a Nobel Prize, but it's going to be another Nobel Fuck You Prize, like the one they gave to George W. Bush in 2009.
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:52 PM
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Because there really IS a Shakespeare quote for every possible occasion:

"This letter, being so excellently ignorant, will breed no terror in the youth: he will find it comes from a clodpole." -- Twelfth Night
G-d bless you, Sir!
  #390  
Old 05-24-2018, 09:29 PM
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Kim wins this round, again -

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/asia/...ntl/index.html

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We reiterate to the US that we are willing to sit face to face at any time and in any way," said Kim, who has negotiated with US counterparts for years.
"I would like to conclude that President Trump's statement on the North Korea-US summit is a decision that is not in line with the wishes of the who hope for the peace and stability of the Korean peninsula as well as the world."
  #391  
Old 05-24-2018, 09:45 PM
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Heh.

Maybe Trump in his retirement years can become a copywriter for a few Nigerian Princes that are down on their luck...
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:57 PM
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One of those could be the foundation piece of a collection commemorating failures of one sort or another.
Your starter coin.
  #393  
Old 05-24-2018, 10:03 PM
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Tails represents a Rhode Island Red hen?
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:31 PM
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Brighter too.
  #395  
Old 05-25-2018, 03:27 AM
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Well, of course he did. This was the best cancellation, the greatest, bigliest cancellation in the history of meetings, with the best ratings ever, and he did it ALL BY HIMSELF JUST LIKE A BIG BOY.
  #396  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:52 AM
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I sincerely hope that Trump continues to convince himself that he's 'winning bigly' with Kim and North Korea. Because it dawns on him that Kim is playing him like a fiddle, and if he feels humiliated or embarrassed, all hell could break loose.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:36 AM
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Obama won one for...what was it for?
Not being Bush.

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I have no idea how this sort of thing works, but I would think that communications with foreign governments would be written by someone familiar with the language, politics and culture of those countries.
Or indeed of his own country.
  #398  
Old 05-25-2018, 08:56 AM
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Having lived through the presidencies of Nixon, Reagan, and Shrubby, whatever their manifold failings were, they had *mostly* competent people around them. Their Administrations had particular (and often fairly sizable) areas of incompetence and/or malevolence, but for the most part, their people kept the government and the country running down normal channels.

With Trump, pretty much everyone in a position of authority is incompetent, malevolent, or both. (Trump himself is both, of course.) This entire Administration is off the rails in ways far beyond what anybody alive has previously experienced in this country.
I've said it before and will again; whatever you think of past Presidents, they all wanted to be good Presidents. Carter or Reagan, Clinton or Bush; to a man, every one of them wanted to improve America. So of course they tried to hire competent people.

Trump doesn't give a shit if the USA is better or worse off; he sees his job as enriching himself.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:11 AM
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In recent decades, yes, but we've had some pretty thoroughly venal Presidents and administrations in the past. But none come to mind who combined that with an active desire to undo any successes of his predecessor.
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:09 PM
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I've said it before and will again; whatever you think of past Presidents, they all wanted to be good Presidents. Carter or Reagan, Clinton or Bush; to a man, every one of them wanted to improve America. So of course they tried to hire competent people.

Trump doesn't give a shit if the USA is better or worse off; he sees his job as enriching himself.
This post is the alpha and the omega in explaining Trump.
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