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  #401  
Old 06-26-2012, 12:50 PM
Ferret Herder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatminipig View Post
Well, I watched it...

SPOILER:

And by "watched" I mean I wasn't going to play through that painful last level again without any new gameplay, so I cheated and watched all three endings on Youtube.

Too little, too late is my verdict. This is pretty much what I would have expected at launch date, which would have made it an acceptable if mediocre ending. At least you get the fate of the galaxy and your friends, and they fixed a few of the major plot holes (like exploding Mass Effect gates and how your team got onto the Normandy), but they naturally didn't fix the narrative problem, being that an nonlinear and character driven game is still summarized by a flip switch question entirely unaffected by gameplay in this or any previous game.

At least this ending was slightly less depressing.

Argh.
SPOILER:
Just saw what must have been a Destroy+4K Readiness video. Lots of blah blah blah, we'll rebuild, etc., etc., your crewmates put your and Anderson's name up on the memorial wall on the Normandy, etc. Then there's the breath-drawing scene and nothing else about that - it cuts right to Buzz Aldrin talking to a kid about whether that all really happened.
  #402  
Old 06-26-2012, 02:44 PM
Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Having just watched the endings on YouTube
SPOILER:

The writing for the endings are terrible. It feels like a terrible attempt to be a rousing, inspiration speech, but fell flat due to stumbling around cliches. Maybe the writers are busy on another project, or they worked on it with little or to noenthusiasm?

Instead of saying what happen to each race, like "The Krogan homeworld is rebuilt and krogran children now runs the street", or "The Geth no more serve the Quarian, but are treated as equal" or some sort, we get some generic sappy gurgle.

Some of the ending cutscenes are sloppily done too. The asari, for example, started cheering just after the Reapers took off. They could be going anywhere; how did they know the Reapers won't be coming back, or it was a re-deployment. Looks of puzzlement would be better than outright cheering. Unless the news were radioed to them.

Thank goodness the pictures are rather nice to look at, though it takes a while for me to figure what some are for. Like what's Jacob doing in the room full of people?

However, this extending ending may not be what the producer wants in the first place. I still believe this is an olive branch, and lots of feedback was incorporated, even some incompatible ones. Why did the Normandy have to land on a jungle planet, then only to take off from there again? There's really no need for a crash landing scene in the first place.

It could be just me over-thinking it.

Of the three endings, my preference are Destroy, Control and Synthesis. I know that Bioware has Synthesis as the best ending, but the build up to it was appalling lacking (I believe they introduce EDI as lead-up, but this plot thread is badly under-developed and only seems to appear in the third game, and only hinted at in the first two). What sort of life-form are we talking about? Do they still crap and give birth? Do we re-produce, or clone a copy of ourselves and reproduce. Just giving everyone green eyes is not enough!

Control features Shephard as a space-god of sorts; I like it because there is a hint that someone was previously in Shephard's place (perhaps the Starchild?) but because Shephard is dedicated to peace, justice and all the goody-two-shoes stuff, he will never consider wiping out entire galactic civilization as the solution to anything.

Destroy is the tightest ending there is. but damn shame no one remember you save the Geth for a couple of hours before wiping them out. Though is that Shephard alive at the end?

I think Bioware done ok with the Refusal ending; they are still pretty much tied to their original 'vision' of choosing your ending right before the game ends instead of all your little choices accumulating, like the Witcher 2. I guess some people are still tied to the idea of being able to kick the Reaper's ass by their own might. However, it be more gratifying to show that the next cycle actually managed to defeat the Reaper but...if the Crucible is just a power source, then actually little good it will do.

In the end, some things don't make sense. The superweapon they were building turned out to be a power source for the Reapers. I felt trolled for the entire third game.


Last edited by Crowbar of Irony +3; 06-26-2012 at 02:45 PM.
  #403  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:41 PM
Sir T-Cups is offline
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For the record here are the endings.

Actually it's a link to one of them, an option I didn't even know existed (I think it's new) called "refusal". The others are linked really easily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid...768&feature=iv

My take is that they pretty much just made what used to be the "correct" choice now into the wrong one, and every other option was more correct.
  #404  
Old 06-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Ferret Herder is offline
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Crowbar, about Destroy:
SPOILER:
You got that shot of Shep taking a breath at the end in the original game, too, if you had over 4K preparedness and picked Destroy. People wondered how Shep could be taking a breath in the middle of smashed concrete - found on Earth, not really on the lovely shiny metal space stations - and this led to the theory that you'd been slowly Indoctrinated by all that Reaper tech exposure and the last 10 minutes were just hallucinations designed to lead you into making The Wrong Choice. There were all kinds of possible clues (like Good Stuff music when you went near the Destroy button, Bad Stuff music by the others) that made a ton of sense when viewed in context, and this all explained why the last 10-15 minutes were so fucking nonsensical. Sadly, though this was a great theory, it's not looking like it was real.
  #405  
Old 06-26-2012, 04:14 PM
kombatminipig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowbar of Irony +3 View Post
Having just watched the endings on YouTube
SPOILER:

The writing for the endings are terrible. It feels like a terrible attempt to be a rousing, inspiration speech, but fell flat due to stumbling around cliches. Maybe the writers are busy on another project, or they worked on it with little or to noenthusiasm?

Instead of saying what happen to each race, like "The Krogan homeworld is rebuilt and krogran children now runs the street", or "The Geth no more serve the Quarian, but are treated as equal" or some sort, we get some generic sappy gurgle.

Some of the ending cutscenes are sloppily done too. The asari, for example, started cheering just after the Reapers took off. They could be going anywhere; how did they know the Reapers won't be coming back, or it was a re-deployment. Looks of puzzlement would be better than outright cheering. Unless the news were radioed to them.

Thank goodness the pictures are rather nice to look at, though it takes a while for me to figure what some are for. Like what's Jacob doing in the room full of people?

However, this extending ending may not be what the producer wants in the first place. I still believe this is an olive branch, and lots of feedback was incorporated, even some incompatible ones. Why did the Normandy have to land on a jungle planet, then only to take off from there again? There's really no need for a crash landing scene in the first place.

It could be just me over-thinking it.

Of the three endings, my preference are Destroy, Control and Synthesis. I know that Bioware has Synthesis as the best ending, but the build up to it was appalling lacking (I believe they introduce EDI as lead-up, but this plot thread is badly under-developed and only seems to appear in the third game, and only hinted at in the first two). What sort of life-form are we talking about? Do they still crap and give birth? Do we re-produce, or clone a copy of ourselves and reproduce. Just giving everyone green eyes is not enough!

Control features Shephard as a space-god of sorts; I like it because there is a hint that someone was previously in Shephard's place (perhaps the Starchild?) but because Shephard is dedicated to peace, justice and all the goody-two-shoes stuff, he will never consider wiping out entire galactic civilization as the solution to anything.

Destroy is the tightest ending there is. but damn shame no one remember you save the Geth for a couple of hours before wiping them out. Though is that Shephard alive at the end?

I think Bioware done ok with the Refusal ending; they are still pretty much tied to their original 'vision' of choosing your ending right before the game ends instead of all your little choices accumulating, like the Witcher 2. I guess some people are still tied to the idea of being able to kick the Reaper's ass by their own might. However, it be more gratifying to show that the next cycle actually managed to defeat the Reaper but...if the Crucible is just a power source, then actually little good it will do.

In the end, some things don't make sense. The superweapon they were building turned out to be a power source for the Reapers. I felt trolled for the entire third game.

Not to ruin the extended ending (unless the OP or a mod says otherwise):

SPOILER:

I agree entirely. One review of the ending pointed out that what's so jarring about it is that Mass Effect has since its inception been hardcore scifi. Except for the whole eezo-McGuffin to get past those pesky laws of relativity and to add some space-magic to the mix, everything is fleshed out in painstaking detail. The whole theory behind mass effect is consistently used. Even such silly details as the kinetic energy of projectiles, rules of planetary bombardment, chronicles of wars and conflicts that are never directly references and the neat spectrum effect of a ship traveling FTL are explained and referenced in manuals and in dialogue. This is a fictional reality with very clearly stated laws and boundaries. Nothing happens if it can't be explained through in-universe techno-babble.

Yet...suddenly we have a bunch of endings which are more Star Wars than Star Trek.

How did this magic signal just move right across the galaxy? What about to systems without Mass Effect gates, is organic (and perhaps synthetic) life unaffected there?

Suddenly Shepard goes from being a space-race reference to a Christian one? (Even more so than in the previous ending)

Suddenly a magic green signal can rewrite and modify the genetic structure of every living (or maybe just sentient?) being?

As you asked, what about synthetics? Did Eve get ovaries? Did the Geth's balls drop? The idea is nice, but the concept of all life keeping their previous vessels after synthesis is absurd.

And okay...so now we have utopia...do we really? Do all the races in the galaxy just stop infighting because a common threat has been defeated? It feels like they made the ending extra sappy to just shut the fans up, but it doesn't hold up. So the Urdnot Wreav just saw the light and became a swell dad of millions of little Wreavlings who will spend their days delving in pottery and post-modern architecture? Aria didn't employ violence to retake Omega Station?
The Mass Effect universe not only makes it very clear that people act within their own personal ethical boundaries often at the expense of others, but makes it a core part of gameplay. If your Shepard sees no problem in shooting the Volus pawnbroker and stealing his money to perform good deeds with, then that's his prerogative.

The schmaltzyness of the endings counteracts this entirely.

Last edited by kombatminipig; 06-26-2012 at 04:16 PM.
  #406  
Old 06-26-2012, 06:50 PM
Mr. Kobayashi is offline
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Spoiler tags are appreciated guys, by now everyone and their dog knows that ME3's ending sucks more than a malfunctioning vacuum cleaner but the EC is just out.

Just started the assault on Cronos Station, got a new achievement I've never had before -
SPOILER:
"Master and Commander - 50 G - Deliver most of the Galaxy at War assets to the final conflict."

Last edited by Mr. Kobayashi; 06-26-2012 at 06:52 PM.
  #407  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:33 PM
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Synthesis is supposed to be the "best" ending but it creeps me out to no end. By brokering a peace between the Geth and Quarian, I proved Synthetics and Organics can live in peace without having to change fundamentally what either was. Frankly seeing all the people with Bio organics was horrifying.

I'll take Control thanks very much.
  #408  
Old 06-26-2012, 07:50 PM
Mr. Kobayashi is offline
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SPOILER. GODDAMN. TAGS.

Is it me or
SPOILER:
is the fight with that twat Kai Leng a whole lot harder? I get to the part where he summons the fucking phantoms then get my ass handed to me. Since when do those bitches use ranged attacks?
  #409  
Old 06-26-2012, 10:26 PM
oft wears hats is offline
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I found out the hard way that (ending choice spoiler)

SPOILER:
shooting the Catalyst Kid triggers the "refuse" ending, where he says (apparently in Harbinger's voice) "So be it. The cycle continues." Then the Crucible turns off and the Reapers win.


Oops.
  #410  
Old 06-26-2012, 10:39 PM
Mr. Kobayashi is offline
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Hmm. Well, messed that up twice. There's nothing new until you reach the beam, as I thought. Unfortunately my proclivity for pissing about + unskippable cutscenes is biting me in the arse.
SPOILER:
First time after chatting with Anakin Skywalker (they really bumped the channels, you can definitely tell Meer and Hale voiced him too) I told him to piss off - that dialogue choice was just irresistible, resulting in SO BE IT and and ending where a future cycle finds Liara's time capsule thing. How they defeated the Reapers is anyone's guess.

Next time I went through it all again aiming to go for Destroy, which is what my Shep would do. Instead I decided to find out what would happen if you shot the little shit. SO BE IT, same ending. Must...resist...temptation to shoot!
  #411  
Old 06-26-2012, 10:52 PM
Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Honesty, I don't think the extended endings are worth the replay. The last part of the game is the worst in the entire series.

In fact, its a problem with the entire premise of the crucible. It felt like one big troll
  #412  
Old 06-26-2012, 11:10 PM
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I'm honestly surprised at all the negativity. I thought that the new endings were great. Of course they should have been in the game originally, but they were free and I thought they were good enough to justify the wait. My opinions:

SPOILER:

The positives:

First, I'm glad that they showed how my squadmates left earth and got to the Normandy. I thought it was a bit cheesy that the Normandy would come in right next to a Reaper, but the moment of emotional connection that I got with my LI more than justied my suspension of disbelief.

Next, I was thrilled to actually learn something about Starbrat. I thought that they played him in the best way possible: an AI gone wrong. The fact that his creators were his first victims, though perhaps unoriginal, made him a believable character and no longer a jarring interruption in the flow of the game.

I liked that you could reject his choices, and the consequences are logical. Hackett himself says that the reapers could not be destroyed conventionally.

The epilogue explained the aftermath decently. I think it would have been forced if they had explicitly spelled out what happened to every single character.

The negatives:

Let me save my goddamn game whenever I please! I don't want to go through that long conversation; I just want to see all of the endings without resorting to Youtube.

I haven't actually played through Synthesis, but the concept still doesn't make any sense. That was the one part that I thought would be completely irredeemable. Starbrat's explanation doesn't exactly make sense. Again, given that I actually know what Starbrat is, I have enough of a frame of reference that I can comfortably suspend my disbelief (and I'm a biologist, so that's saying something).

I wish there was some sort of reunion scene, even something as little as a drawing. In fact, a drawing would be preferable since writing such an emotional scene may be beyond Bioware's abilities (although they pulled it off pretty well in ME1). To me, this would have made the ending perfect. As it is, they made the aftermath pretty clear and I don't have much trouble imagining the rest now that I know that my crew made it off the Garden of Eden (and Joker won't be having little brittle children with my Ash).


Overall, I give it an A- or an A. I feel that Bioware has redeemed itself. For reference, the original ending garnered a solid F in my book and eliminated my desire to play the game. Now I think the ending is worthy of the series.

Last edited by Danja; 06-26-2012 at 11:11 PM. Reason: So sleepy... can't speell...
  #413  
Old 06-26-2012, 11:22 PM
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Right, just played through Destroy.

Things I liked:
SPOILER:
Asking Starbrat about the creation of the Reapers and what he is.
Being able to tell him to GTFO, even if it does effectively lose the game. However, this should have been an option regardless, diminishes the threat somewhat if no matter what you do you win.
More explanations around the choices.
The epilogue bit with baby krogan.
The Normandy taking off from that bloody planet. This was the main one for a lot of people, means Garrus and Tali won't starve to death.
Putting Shepard's plaque up alongside Andersons.
I got the 'breathe' scene, which means the game totted my EMS up differently. Good.
Saying a final goodbye to Liara.


Things I didn't like:
SPOILER:
The convo with the Illusive Man was the main evidence for indoctrination theory, yet the weirdness is never addressed.
It didn't cut out what really should have been cut out to address naysayers. Rather like plastering over a crumbling wall, sometimes it might have been best just to rebuild the thing. Like the Normandy crashing, which was in retrospect completely pointless.
It's rather...generic. There's not really a better way to explain that pointing to something like Fallout New Vegas, or even Dragon Age Origins. So many variables that your character alters, from squadmates to societies each explained. I think it could have been tailored to your Shepard better.

I give it a solid B. It would be B+ if you could skip the cutscenes. If those had been in the game originally there definitely wouldn't have been such a shitstorm.
  #414  
Old 06-26-2012, 11:23 PM
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Sorry for the double post; missed the edit window. Bioware cut the EMS requirements; you now need only 3200 effective in order to unlock the best ending. No need for multiplayer unless you were anti-completionist.
  #415  
Old 06-27-2012, 12:05 AM
Mr. Kobayashi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danja View Post
Sorry for the double post; missed the edit window. Bioware cut the EMS requirements; you now need only 3200 effective in order to unlock the best ending. No need for multiplayer unless you were anti-completionist.
Excellent. Doesn't give you too much room to muck around though, I've played them all since ME1 and the only thing I did 'wrong' was acid-bath the Rachni queen and got 3550. Still, nice of them to acknowledge this annoying fault.

On the
SPOILER:
Shepard breathes scene, I can dig it this time round - during Hackett's narration the camera pans across a trashed Citadel not unlike the rubble Shep wakes up under. Having the Citadel shown badly damaged instead of assuming it's totally destroyed fixes the question of how Shepard survived the Citadel blowing up, re-entry and smacking back down to London. Little things like that are also nice nods.


I also like that, like the much discussed (and let's face it, ripped-off) endings of Deus Ex HR that there isn't really a 'good' and 'evil' ending, they all have their ups and downs. You can't use the infinite ending generator any more, at any rate.

Another good thing is the
SPOILER:
new quarian face, seen in synthesis. A bit better than Tali Zorah vas Photoshop.


Also; it was FREE. Stop whining.
  #416  
Old 06-27-2012, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowbar of Irony +3 View Post
Having just watched the endings on YouTube
SPOILER:
However, it be more gratifying to show that the next cycle actually managed to defeat the Reaper
SPOILER:
They do. They replaced the Buzz Aldrin stuff with dialog showing that the next cycle wins.

Last edited by cckerberos; 06-27-2012 at 12:53 AM.
  #417  
Old 06-27-2012, 03:04 AM
Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi View Post

Another good thing is the
SPOILER:
new quarian face, seen in synthesis. A bit better than Tali Zorah vas Photoshop.


Also; it was FREE. Stop whining.
I afraid the broken fanbase would start whining "that looks just like a normal human face!" but it's good enough for me.

It's great that the DLC is free; there are few ways to look at this: 1) this is how the ending should have been 2) well, they need to release this DLC for hope of any single player DLC to sell.

I appreciate the effort on Bioware's part, but the refusal option seems to indicate that they 'don't get' why people were upset about the ending, thinking it's all about baby krograns and hugs/kisses.
  #418  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Crowbar of Irony +3 View Post
I appreciate the effort on Bioware's part, but the refusal option seems to indicate that they 'don't get' why people were upset about the ending, thinking it's all about baby krograns and hugs/kisses.
The refusal option seems to be the most popular choice by far on the forums I frequent.
  #419  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Crowbar of Irony +3 View Post
I afraid the broken fanbase would start whining "that looks just like a normal human face!" but it's good enough for me.

It's great that the DLC is free; there are few ways to look at this: 1) this is how the ending should have been 2) well, they need to release this DLC for hope of any single player DLC to sell.

I appreciate the effort on Bioware's part, but the refusal option seems to indicate that they 'don't get' why people were upset about the ending, thinking it's all about baby krograns and hugs/kisses.
Indeed. I say that this ending is at least what was originally paid for. There's a bit of a fallacy in media production (games, movies, music) that the customer should pay for the work and not the result. If we choose to partake in a piece of media (like watching a movie) we should pay for the damn two hours of our pointless lives we get to wile away in the cinema, which is the fallacy. We don't pay for wasting time, we pay for the total experience. The audience doesn't wish to simply have their minds numbed for a few hours, the audience is there to have their hearts spoken to and their intellects stimulated. Even a pointless action flick, if well made, stimulates our baser instincts. This fallacy is why the media industry is centered on volume and mass appeal, because we pay before we have a chance to review the result. The few makers who actually believe in their craft produce the few pearls in the pigshit.

I'd compare this to a restaurant meal. The first two courses were excellent. Well served, thought out and came in a timely manner. Suddenly the dessert is served, and while promising, turns out to be in contrast to the entire rest of the meal, spoiling the whole experience. Parts of it are also poorly prepared. We send it back and get it redone a few months later, still inherently flawed but at least edible. We could have accepted the as adequate (but not fantastic) had they made the dessert properly from the start, but at least the restaurant will get a new chance the next time they redo their menu.
  #420  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:42 AM
Crowbar of Irony +3 is offline
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Originally Posted by cckerberos View Post
The refusal option seems to be the most popular choice by far on the forums I frequent.
Yep, most people wants to try the refusal option.

Let me explain further; by Bioware not getting it, I mean

SPOILER:

People are asking for a "screw you, Tiny Space Hitler" option and want the outcome to be determined by the EMS. That this option leads to an immediate game over can be seemed as "'No, you still have to choose from our three choices that just magically manifest in the last 15 minutes of the game, without any build-up whatsoever".

If Bioware has put in an option where you refuse Starchild and could win using sheer force of strength (if you manage to get a godly EMS), it'll be golden. I bet many will be singing Bioware's praises to the high heavens and beyond.

I know that a popular argument is that the Reapers cannot be defeated with conventional means to begin with. Well, it seems to be a pretty bad premise to build a gun-blazing action-rpg game around. It's a game where you are doomed anyway unless the writer brings in a Deus Ex Machina. I thought I was playing Mass Effect, not Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth.
  #421  
Old 06-27-2012, 06:55 AM
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After watching four endings I must say that almost all of the things I disliked were addressed. I understand what the Catalyst is now and he makes more sense. Where the Normandy was makes more sense, and I appreciate that they made it more clear the Mass Relays were just damaged. In fact I understand now what I thought was all the Mass Relays blowing up in the original ending was actually just the "Catalyst Wave" propagating itself.

I still would have preferred a more specific "This is what happened here; this is what happened there" type ending like other epic games have but this was definitely an improvement. I also appreciate that they removed the fact that you must play multiplayer to get the best ending. The old way was frankly insulting given all the hours I played all three single player games. Overall, I would agree Bioware has made things right.

Last edited by Quimby; 06-27-2012 at 06:58 AM. Reason: four endings not three
  #422  
Old 06-27-2012, 07:29 AM
Ferret Herder is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi View Post
Excellent. Doesn't give you too much room to muck around though, I've played them all since ME1 and the only thing I did 'wrong' was acid-bath the Rachni queen and got 3550. Still, nice of them to acknowledge this annoying fault.

On the
SPOILER:
Shepard breathes scene, I can dig it this time round - during Hackett's narration the camera pans across a trashed Citadel not unlike the rubble Shep wakes up under. Having the Citadel shown badly damaged instead of assuming it's totally destroyed fixes the question of how Shepard survived the Citadel blowing up, re-entry and smacking back down to London. Little things like that are also nice nods.
Thank god for that change. I'm not entirely sure what things I did "wrong" - though I did smart off to the Quarian general who was perfectly happy to throw me and my crew under the bus in ME3.

Regarding your spoiler:
SPOILER:
I watched a video because I didn't want to grind back up again, and missed that it was actually a half-intact Citadel. Still don't think that concrete was really common in it, but OK.

But - and I haven't checked the other new endings that in-depth - why is that only possible with a Destroy ending? Why does Shep die if you pick Control or Synthesis, but have a chance to live with Destroy?


I still have... issues with the original 10-15 minutes and what little sense parts of it made, and the U-turn of expectations in plotting. However, this was at least better than a slideshow. It's an improvement, if poorly executed.
SPOILER:
Issues with you all getting seemingly blown up by the Reapers and yet you somehow sneak onto the Citadel and the two teammates you were with are fine but not with you while a spotter is saying "yeah, all of em are dead, wow this sucks, fall back," not only that but Anderson sneaks on before you and describes stuff you're not seeing, Illusive Man WTFery, out-of-nowhere Star Child interference (oh hai, this wasn't a superweapon in the way you thought, and we're using Weird Alien Logic to explain we have to kill you Organics via Synthetics to save you as data or something), everything you did not really mattering all that much in the end, Shepard goes from space-race symbol to literal Christ figure, etc.

As for the new changes, I thought the narration was schmaltzy and kind of dull. I got bored watching the videos and only watched one (Destroy) and a little part of Synthesis.


My recommendation, however, has probably shifted. I would probably tell someone who hasn't played it at all to go ahead, but warn them that the ending was a little weird.

Last edited by Ferret Herder; 06-27-2012 at 07:32 AM.
  #423  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:33 AM
kombatminipig is offline
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Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post

My recommendation, however, has probably shifted. I would probably tell someone who hasn't played it at all to go ahead, but warn them that the ending was a little weird.
To compare with the ending of Battlestar Galactica:

SPOILER:

Exactly like Battlestar Galactica
  #424  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:32 AM
Mr. Kobayashi is offline
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Originally Posted by Crowbar of Irony +3 View Post
I appreciate the effort on Bioware's part, but the refusal option seems to indicate that they 'don't get' why people were upset about the ending, thinking it's all about baby krograns and hugs/kisses.
To be fair I think that was a large part of it, absent of anything else the fanbase inferred the worst -
SPOILER:
that the fleets were stuck around Earth, that either Tali and Garrus starve or everyone else does, that civilisation is doomed without the relays. This is most shown by the u-turn with the Normandy crash; I think one of the only bits they cut out of the original ending was one of the Normandy's engines exploding and its damage on the surface, clearly showing that it was stuck there. I really don't know what they were thinking there, but at least they fixed it at the cost of making the entire scene pointless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
Thank god for that change. I'm not entirely sure what things I did "wrong" - though I did smart off to the Quarian general who was perfectly happy to throw me and my crew under the bus in ME3.

Regarding your spoiler:
SPOILER:
I watched a video because I didn't want to grind back up again, and missed that it was actually a half-intact Citadel. Still don't think that concrete was really common in it, but OK.

But - and I haven't checked the other new endings that in-depth - why is that only possible with a Destroy ending? Why does Shep die if you pick Control or Synthesis, but have a chance to live with Destroy?


I still have... issues with the original 10-15 minutes and what little sense parts of it made, and the U-turn of expectations in plotting. However, this was at least better than a slideshow. It's an improvement, if poorly executed.
SPOILER:
Issues with you all getting seemingly blown up by the Reapers and yet you somehow sneak onto the Citadel and the two teammates you were with are fine but not with you while a spotter is saying "yeah, all of em are dead, wow this sucks, fall back," not only that but Anderson sneaks on before you and describes stuff you're not seeing, Illusive Man WTFery, out-of-nowhere Star Child interference (oh hai, this wasn't a superweapon in the way you thought, and we're using Weird Alien Logic to explain we have to kill you Organics via Synthetics to save you as data or something), everything you did not really mattering all that much in the end, Shepard goes from space-race symbol to literal Christ figure, etc.

As for the new changes, I thought the narration was schmaltzy and kind of dull. I got bored watching the videos and only watched one (Destroy) and a little part of Synthesis.


My recommendation, however, has probably shifted. I would probably tell someone who hasn't played it at all to go ahead, but warn them that the ending was a little weird.
On why
SPOILER:
Shep still dies in Control/Synthesis, I don't take issue with it - Starbrat made it clear that that would be the case, although the little shit still lies to you about Destroy and hints that you will die "Even you are partly synthetic."

I think they stuck too closely to the suckiness of the original, like the weird TIM conversation. Part of it was addressed in that at least you can argue with Starbrat (although you still can't point out that the geth/quarians are working together).

The 'refusal' ending was obviously put in to address Indoctrination Theory, but I think the fans may have been happier if they embraced IT to explain the shitness and then bundled on a load of completely new stuff rather than somewhat awkwardly add new scenes for the same effect.


What is clear however is that BioWare has listened, the amount of new scenes and what they address is evidence of that. Not sure it was the best way to do it, but still a thousand times better than the rushed nonsense we got to begin with.
  #425  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:38 AM
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So everyone still thinks that synthesis was the "correct" ending? I prefer the destroy option, but after viewing the three endings I thought they made it clear that control was the best ending

Also I might have missed something but where do you get that the next cycle beat the reapers? I didn't see that....


On a completely 180 separate note: I never posted in the original run of this thread, and re-reading it I saw that no one mentioned that this game is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL to look at. I swear I could spend hours just looking at the background of each level (the beginning scene and Palaven) and watching everything happen. Just the way it looks, the depth, the sounds (the reapers main gun sound is gorgeous) everything just looks perfect. I have never played a game with such beauty in the backgrounds before

ETA: I also want to credit Bioware for listening and doing something about it. It's rare nowadays when a company does something like that to placate an angry fanbase, even if it isn't EXACTLY what we wanted.

Last edited by Sir T-Cups; 06-27-2012 at 10:40 AM. Reason: You'll see it
  #426  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir T-Cups View Post
So everyone still thinks that synthesis was the "correct" ending? I prefer the destroy option, but after viewing the three endings I thought they made it clear that control was the best ending

Also I might have missed something but where do you get that the next cycle beat the reapers? I didn't see that....
SPOILER:
Sythesis to me was and still is creepy as hell, as is control. If anything the EC has just underlined that with it's friendly abominations from dark space who were just trying to harvest your entire species.

Destroy at least shows that the galaxy can now finally move on and rebuild on its own terms, completely free of Reaper influence.

On the next cycle, the replacement for Buzz's stargazer scene pretty much spells it out that they beat the Reapers due to Liara's time capsule thing (which is also where they heard about Shep). To me this is the worst ending, all it does is pass the buck to the next cycle while dooming your own.
  #427  
Old 06-27-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kobayashi View Post
SPOILER:
Sythesis to me was and still is creepy as hell, as is control. If anything the EC has just underlined that with it's friendly abominations from dark space who were just trying to harvest your entire species.

Destroy at least shows that the galaxy can now finally move on and rebuild on its own terms, completely free of Reaper influence.

On the next cycle, the replacement for Buzz's stargazer scene pretty much spells it out that they beat the Reapers due to Liara's time capsule thing (which is also where they heard about Shep). To me this is the worst ending, all it does is pass the buck to the next cycle while dooming your own.
Yeah, my opinions about the ending options:
SPOILER:
Control seemed doomed to failure. TIM believed in Control, and I think Saren was talking about it too, and you see how well that turned out. Synthesis sounded creepy and like you were being controlled - now we're talking Husks and that sort of thing. Imagine all the races of the galaxy suddenly being cyborged (in either direction) against their will - that's just complete Body Horror fodder to me. "Hey, evil giant machines from another dimension were going to kill us all, so to save us, this one human decided to get everyone implanted with metal and circuitry - no, stop crying, Billy, it's OK, we're not monsters..." Destroy sucked but it sounded like it was the only feasible option, so I went for it.
  #428  
Old 06-27-2012, 11:10 AM
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My problem with Destroy was
SPOILER:
it was not limited to the Reapers. I could not in good conscience sacrifice the Geth and EDI and any other untold Synthetic races after what I learned about them over the three games.
  #429  
Old 06-27-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
Yeah, my opinions about the ending options:
SPOILER:
Control seemed doomed to failure. TIM believed in Control, and I think Saren was talking about it too, and you see how well that turned out. Synthesis sounded creepy and like you were being controlled - now we're talking Husks and that sort of thing. Imagine all the races of the galaxy suddenly being cyborged (in either direction) against their will - that's just complete Body Horror fodder to me. "Hey, evil giant machines from another dimension were going to kill us all, so to save us, this one human decided to get everyone implanted with metal and circuitry - no, stop crying, Billy, it's OK, we're not monsters..." Destroy sucked but it sounded like it was the only feasible option, so I went for it.

SPOILER:
But, given the ending speech of "I watch over them, I help them rebuild", plus the scene of the Reapers rebuilding the pylons makes me think that he does, in fact, control everything and is now either the new starchild or at least the new guardian of the universe
  #430  
Old 06-27-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir T-Cups View Post
SPOILER:
But, given the ending speech of "I watch over them, I help them rebuild", plus the scene of the Reapers rebuilding the pylons makes me think that he does, in fact, control everything and is now either the new starchild or at least the new guardian of the universe
Another little thing I like about the EC is
SPOILER:
how the Control ending changes if Shep was Renegade or Paragon, from benevolent dictator to guarding protector.
  #431  
Old 06-27-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
My problem with Destroy was
SPOILER:
it was not limited to the Reapers. I could not in good conscience sacrifice the Geth and EDI and any other untold Synthetic races after what I learned about them over the three games.
This ^

SPOILER:
I really wanted to destroy the Reapers and end everything, but I couldn't sacrifice the Geth and I thought Synthesis was kind of a dick move.

The Catalyst Kid's mention that "Your Crucible seems mostly intact, but it will not discriminate" finally explains the link between EMS and ending quality. If your EMS is too low, the Crucible gets too banged up during the final battle and it causes collateral damage (e.g. Big Ben going kerplowie, Earth getting incinerated) that appears in the "bad" endings. That also explains why not all endings are available if your EMS is too low: reduced Crucible functionality due to damage.

To me, Control seemed like the best of a set of imperfect options. I liked the epilogue showing Cyber Shepard directing the Reapers to rebuild the relays. I wondered if Control had a "renegade" version so if your renegade bar was mostly full you'd get a different epilogue of you becoming corrupted by your power over the Reapers and restarting the cycle or doing something even worse.
ETA: According to Mr. Kobayashi, it does change based on P/R score.

I was quite annoyed at Bioware requiring us to replay 90 minutes of gameplay to get up to 2 minutes before the "Restart Citadel Mission" load point, just so we could see a 1 minute cutscene explaining why the squad was on the Normandy. They spent the time rerendering the "Joker outruns the asplosion" scene to change things ever so slightly but they didn't have the time to code in an exception to the "Restart Citadel" load that would kick the game back 2 minutes?

Last edited by oft wears hats; 06-27-2012 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Credit to Mr. Kobayashi
  #432  
Old 06-27-2012, 03:29 PM
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I just can't get it up to replay so much and endure the endless limping, so I can see the EC stuff. Youtube was adequate, and I'll probably play all three games again in a year or two, and choose from the new endings then.

Given the circumstances, I'm pretty impressed. They clearly tried to fix the glaring logic errors in a systematic fashion, as well as giving us a picture of life after Shepard's choice. I agree that Starchild is still a giant WTF, but it would have been a tall order to rebuild the ending from scratch.

I imagine if this had been the original ending, I would have felt like they had trouble knowing how to end a fabulous series, but it was OK. Maybe a 5 out of 10. Perhaps 6, because we got to see baby Krogan.

I do really enjoy the fact that they seem to have mimicked this fan art for the Control ending (which is still the ending my Shep would choose, I think, rather than kill EDI and the Geth, or DNA-tech-raping the whole galaxy).
  #433  
Old 06-28-2012, 11:24 AM
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I do really enjoy the fact that they seem to have mimicked this fan art for the Control ending (which is still the ending my Shep would choose, I think, rather than kill EDI and the Geth, or DNA-tech-raping the whole galaxy).
I originally chose the destroy option when I played it through the first time, because I thought synthesis was just wrong, and I thought control couldn't be done and it would somehow be a wrong choice. As I'm playing through it a second time now I can tell you straight away that I'm choosing control because, after viewing the new endings, I think it's the most correct now.
  #434  
Old 06-28-2012, 02:24 PM
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Okay, having played through the Max-EMS Destroy ending, I think it's acceptable for me to consider it personally canonical.

Preferably with
SPOILER:
the implied scene of them discovering me still breathing in the citadel wreck post-credits, removing my name from the wall of honor, and the attendant little house on Rannoch with a dozen respirator-wearing adopted babies.
  #435  
Old 06-28-2012, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeriel View Post
Okay, having played through the Max-EMS Destroy ending, I think it's acceptable for me to consider it personally canonical.

Preferably with
SPOILER:
the implied scene of them discovering me still breathing in the citadel wreck post-credits, removing my name from the wall of honor, and the attendant little house on Rannoch with a dozen respirator-wearing adopted babies.
Aw yeah.

Hey, speaking of the wall of honor, here's one of the things that Bugged The Shit Out of Me about the new ending, and it relates to kerning:
SPOILER:
Holy fuck, who was in charge of making the "Commander Shepard" sign for the wall?! Or should I say, "Commander Shep ard"? OMG, bad kerning. I could not pay attention to anything else when that was on screen.

Last edited by Ferret Herder; 06-28-2012 at 09:03 PM.
  #436  
Old 06-28-2012, 09:06 PM
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Aw yeah.

Hey, speaking of the wall of honor, here's one of the things that Bugged The Shit Out of Me about the new ending, and it relates to kerning:
Never mind the fact that Shepard is the only person without their first name.

Last edited by Ike Witt; 06-28-2012 at 09:07 PM.
  #437  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:38 PM
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Never mind the fact that Shepard is the only person without their first name.
Absolutely! I wanted to see the memorial for my Commander German Shepard, dammit!
  #438  
Old 06-29-2012, 10:50 AM
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It seems some additional files were packed with the EC, concerning a future DLC called
SPOILER:
  #439  
Old 06-29-2012, 04:45 PM
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Absolutely! I wanted to see the memorial for my Commander German Shepard, dammit!
Or my Commander Hotpants Shepard
  #440  
Old 06-29-2012, 04:53 PM
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I've seen a lot of complaints that the new "Refusal" ending was obviously intended to be a kick in the fans' balls from Bioware, and that didn't ring true to me. In a lot of ways, the Refusal ending seemed to me the most narratively powerful of the four options. It's very bleak, to be sure, but it offers true hope at the end, and pays off one of my favorite Liara scenes in the game, IMO, lovely fashion. This Forbes article does a better job explaining why that ending works than I could.

Disclaimer: I liked the original endings just fine (probably would've rated them 7/10 if I had to put a number on it), and really enjoyed the additional closure provided by the Extended Cut (which I'd bump up to 9/10). So I was never one of the people who hated the endings, and acknowledge that may be part of why I didn't interpret the outcome of the Refusal ending as a "fuck you" from the writers. But I do really think it works, thematically and emotionally.

Last edited by Tanbarkie; 06-29-2012 at 04:54 PM.
  #441  
Old 06-29-2012, 06:10 PM
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I've seen a lot of complaints that the new "Refusal" ending was obviously intended to be a kick in the fans' balls from Bioware, and that didn't ring true to me. In a lot of ways, the Refusal ending seemed to me the most narratively powerful of the four options. It's very bleak, to be sure, but it offers true hope at the end
I always said that losing the war should have been one of the end game options. I am glad they added it and it was a nice surprise to get the hopeful epilogue.

I applaud the effort to improve the endings, but I still really resent the whole starchild/ bottleneck ending.
  #442  
Old 06-29-2012, 07:33 PM
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It seems some additional files were packed with the EC, concerning a future DLC called
SPOILER:
SPOILER:
They really are clueless, aren't they? Did anyone except these mouth-breathers play the first game and think the genocidal machines from beyond the galactic rim needed to be humanised?
  #443  
Old 06-30-2012, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Grumman View Post
SPOILER:
They really are clueless, aren't they? Did anyone except these mouth-breathers play the first game and think the genocidal machines from beyond the galactic rim needed to be humanised?
Deep storytelling man, you need those for a thoughtful, insightful piece of artistic narrative and having soulless bad guys just echo of simplicity and doesn't scream sophiscation. Doesn't matter Lord of the Rings get by with Sauron or the Cthulhu mythos get by with Azatholth.
  #444  
Old 06-30-2012, 06:46 AM
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So, just played the EC, and got a few thoughts:

SPOILER:
The scene where they evac your two teammates (due to being badly wounded) was a nice touch, though it could have been done a lot better. Or really, in any way that didn't stick a wrench in the pacing for that whole sequence. I would have had Shepard call for an evac, made sure his team-mates were alright, and said a quick goodbye without spending a couple of minutes having a heartfelt conversation in the middle of the battle. I would have had the Normandy (or one of her shuttles) picking them up after Shepard went through the Conduit, since there was already a transition cut there.

I did like that they at least showed other wounded soldiers being brought aboard, instead of the implication that Shepard's two friends were the only ones worth landing to save.

ETA: Did anybody else wonder why Harbinger didn't bother to at least try to blow up the Normandy while she was parked in front of him like a giant middle finger? Another problem that would be sidestepped by waiting until after Shepard went into the Conduit before the evac arrived.

The Refusal ending was interesting, though I was hoping to see the Shepard VI. That was easily one of my three favorite things about ME3 just for pure comedy value.

Last edited by Raguleader; 06-30-2012 at 06:47 AM.
  #445  
Old 06-30-2012, 07:11 AM
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Few more thoughts, after viewing various endings on the You Tubes:

SPOILER:
In the Destroy ending, you never actually see the Love Interest put Shepard's placard on the memorial. In both the Synthesis and Control endings, she places it on the memorial and then steps back.

In the Synthesis and Control endings, EDI is standing noticeably apart from the rest of the gathered crew, presumably to make it easier to compose the shot with and without her. In the Destroy ending, she is absent from the crowd, and is listed on the memorial as one of the fallen crewmates.

The Control ending also makes it pretty clear that Shepard is dead. The Shepard that now controls the Reapers possesses all of Shepard's memories, and acts based on that (Paragon or Renegade), but is a separate entity. Not entirely unlike Legion and the Geth Primes.
  #446  
Old 06-30-2012, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Raguleader View Post
Few more thoughts, after viewing various endings on the You Tubes:

SPOILER:
In the Destroy ending, you never actually see the Love Interest put Shepard's placard on the memorial. In both the Synthesis and Control endings, she places it on the memorial and then steps back.

In the Synthesis and Control endings, EDI is standing noticeably apart from the rest of the gathered crew, presumably to make it easier to compose the shot with and without her. In the Destroy ending, she is absent from the crowd, and is listed on the memorial as one of the fallen crewmates.

The Control ending also makes it pretty clear that Shepard is dead. The Shepard that now controls the Reapers possesses all of Shepard's memories, and acts based on that (Paragon or Renegade), but is a separate entity. Not entirely unlike Legion and the Geth Primes.
I disagree on your control theory. I think it is actually Shepard and the reason that the dialogue changes per your Renagade/Paragon is simply because that is the attitude you've given him

On a separate note, I am simultaneously replaying it with my first Shepard, and I am also replaying it from scratch with a female Shep since I've never played it as a female. It is VERY interesting to see how vastly different the game is. The people from the second game are all but absent (which doesn't completely surprise me) but what did surprise me is how VASTLY different the dialogue is. Parts that have nothing to do with the previous two games have the language changed ever so slightly, and it's like this for virtually every conversation. It's interesting.
  #447  
Old 06-30-2012, 12:30 PM
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Just got around to playing the new endings. I'd hated the original endings at first and came to be lukewarm towards them after some thought. Now that I've played the ending sequence again with the extended cut loaded I can say that I actually like the ending (I picked destroy and had a maxed readiness). It provided a lot of closure that I felt was missing from the first one:
SPOILER:
Particularly regarding the destruction of the relays. I'd had a problem with that with the original ending: "I destroyed the reapers but now every single system is cut off from all the others. That's fucking great." But this time around the Starchild told me that everything that would be destroyed could be rebuilt and Hackett's speech shows that the relays were merely damaged and that the galaxy is still united and all that jazz.
So I'm now square with Bioware and all is right in the world. Of course it would have been better if this had all just been in the original game but it's better than nothing. I am content.
  #448  
Old 06-30-2012, 12:31 PM
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I disagree on your control theory. I think it is actually Shepard and the reason that the dialogue changes per your Renagade/Paragon is simply because that is the attitude you've given him

On a separate note, I am simultaneously replaying it with my first Shepard, and I am also replaying it from scratch with a female Shep since I've never played it as a female. It is VERY interesting to see how vastly different the game is. The people from the second game are all but absent (which doesn't completely surprise me) but what did surprise me is how VASTLY different the dialogue is. Parts that have nothing to do with the previous two games have the language changed ever so slightly, and it's like this for virtually every conversation. It's interesting.
Well,

SPOILER:
I was keying in more on the fact that Commander Shepard was being referred to by Shepard in the past tense and in the third person, unless we're looking at a "That man is dead" identity issue thing.

Another random observation: Going off of the memorial plaque, Shepard's first name might actually be "Commander".
  #449  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:32 PM
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It seems some additional files were packed with the EC, concerning a future DLC called
SPOILER:
They also lowered the EMS requirement needed to see the "breathe" scene from 4000 EMS (impossible to achieve without multiplayer or some app for ipads or savegame hacking) to 3100 EMS (actually possible to achieve in single player).

Or at least that's what a post on the bioware forums claims.
  #450  
Old 07-02-2012, 01:04 AM
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They also lowered the EMS requirement needed to see the "breathe" scene from 4000 EMS (impossible to achieve without multiplayer or some app for ipads or savegame hacking) to 3100 EMS (actually possible to achieve in single player).

Or at least that's what a post on the bioware forums claims.
I got the breath scene and I hadn't played any mutiplayer.
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