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  #101  
Old 10-16-2019, 04:48 PM
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Septimus, the first amendment is a totally different thing from the modern ideal of "freedom of speach'. The first amendment in that it prevents the government from political censorship is totally cool. The modern ideal that Twitter banning users is a 1st amendment thing is totally fucked.

Citations Needed is an excellent podcast and you should listen to their free speech episode. I think it's totally possible to be against free speech and still support the first amendment. They're not the same.

We pick and choose what's acceptable discussion all the time. We don't expect that a student should be able to hold up evolutionary biology 101 debating intelligent design until theyre convinced. The idea that we should be relitaging like racial hiercharchy because someone needs convincing is more political than just disallowing the conversation in the first place.
Who are you to disallow anything?
  #102  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:21 PM
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Thatís 100% correct. Unfortunately, there is far too much hypocrisy with regards to support for rights in this country. Itís too easy to whine about free speech instead of teaching critical thinking skills.
And unfortunately, those who are most fallen for such hateful memes are the ones who are most projecting their failings onto others, one of the biggest being that "Freedom of Speech" means freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Until people like yourself understand that freedom of speech also means that I am free to tell you to shut the fuck up, people like yourself will continue to succumb to memes based on hate and intolerance.
  #103  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:38 PM
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It’s too easy to whine about free speech instead of teaching critical thinking skills.
OMG, self awareness? I'm so proud!


Last edited by iiandyiiii; 10-16-2019 at 06:38 PM.
  #104  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:56 PM
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Thatís 100% correct. Unfortunately, there is far too much hypocrisy with regards to support for rights in this country. Itís too easy to whine about free speech instead of teaching critical thinking skills.
Sometimes you write as though you hope to be treated as a grown-up. Let's have you demonstrate your mettle by posting a brief essay on Russia's use of social media to subvert the 206 election. You needn't over-exert yourself: an essay of 15 to 20 words will be fine.
  #105  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:38 PM
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Sometimes you write as though you hope to be treated as a grown-up. Let's have you demonstrate your mettle by posting a brief essay on Russia's use of social media to subvert the 206 election. You needn't over-exert yourself: an essay of 15 to 20 words will be fine.
I donít care who or what publishes information.
  #106  
Old 10-17-2019, 01:41 AM
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I donít care who or what publishes information.
Thanks for answering.

So you're proud of FoxNews telling lies? Happy with foreign countries financing trolls to subvert American elections? Do you think the laws against Trump's connivance with Russia should be repealed?
  #107  
Old 10-17-2019, 02:07 AM
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I don’t care who or what publishes information.
That's kind of a key aspect of those critical thinking skills y'alls were talking about, you know ? In fact asking oneself "who wrote this, for whom, and for what reason" is, like, question A.1.a of the critical thought checklist. That comes before "is the information written here factually accurate", even !

Last edited by Kobal2; 10-17-2019 at 02:08 AM.
  #108  
Old 10-17-2019, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Thanks for answering.

So you're proud of FoxNews telling lies? Happy with foreign countries financing trolls to subvert American elections? Do you think the laws against Trump's connivance with Russia should be repealed?
If it gets him what he wants, why should he care? The end justifies the means. Very Stalinist.
  #109  
Old 10-17-2019, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for answering.

So you're proud of FoxNews telling lies? Happy with foreign countries financing trolls to subvert American elections? Do you think the laws against Trump's connivance with Russia should be repealed?
I don’t think any source of power, including the government, is intrinsically or consistently trustworthy. The nature of powerful institutions attracts those who desire power and those are dangerous people. I’d rather have flawed freedom of speech including horrible things like maga hats than having either the state or idiotic mobs of the emotionally stunted controlling what one can say or think.

Proud or happy about propaganda? No. But if you want to eliminate all sources of falsehood might as well eradicate all religions. $100k of Russian Facebook ads is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
That's kind of a key aspect of those critical thinking skills y'alls were talking about, you know ? In fact asking oneself "who wrote this, for whom, and for what reason" is, like, question A.1.a of the critical thought checklist. That comes before "is the information written here factually accurate", even !
Exactly. People have to realize that almost everyone has an agenda. Why spend millions publishing if you aren’t getting something out of it. Facts are out there if people care to find them. People want to be entertained. Exploiting that is a feature of democracy.

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If it gets him what he wants, why should he care? The end justifies the means. Very Stalinist.
Pro freedom of ideas is actually anti-Stalinist. You need to educate yourself.

“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.‘

Joseph Stalin

The radicals of the far left and their useful idiot allies embody that quote not me or other proponents of individual liberty.

Last edited by octopus; 10-17-2019 at 10:14 AM.
  #110  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:03 PM
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And unfortunately, those who are most fallen for such hateful memes are the ones who are most projecting their failings onto others, one of the biggest being that "Freedom of Speech" means freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Until people like yourself understand that freedom of speech also means that I am free to tell you to shut the fuck up, people like yourself will continue to succumb to memes based on hate and intolerance.
But that's the thing. They don't want you to be able to tell them to shut the fuck up.

Bottom line:

They have rights, YOU don't. They can slag you 'til Doomsday, but you have to respect them. Fuck that.

Oh, and fuck their feelings.
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