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  #9151  
Old 01-24-2020, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Indiana boy, dad, shot when gun discharges while wrestlingI hope they do identify him And I hope it's because he's charged with manslaughter or whatever the appropriate terms for this kind of negligence causing serious injury.

No, I don't give a fuck that it's father and son. This was not an unforeseeable accident; charge him with the crime, please.
Guess he had to protect himself from that toddler!

He really does need to be charged. None of that “suffered enough” crap. If it had been a babysitter that was concealed carrying and the gun went off, people would be calling for the babysitter’s head. If you can’t control the deadly weapon you are carrying, you shouldn’t be allowed to carry it anymore.

I guess he felt threatened all the time, enough to risk carrying a deadly weapon on his body at all times. That is sad. Great going dad. You really protected yourself and your family!
  #9152  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference View Post
It's amazing how often we're told, "guns don't just go off when they're dropped" in spite of all the times they seem to do exactly that.
No, that is only when dropped on a hard surface. Note this part that quarryBo quoted:

Quote:
… the two were play wrestling Sunday night on a bed … when the gun … fell and discharged one shot …
So, just be careful around soft surfaces, where, as we know, pistols can shoot unexpectedly.

Last edited by eschereal; 01-24-2020 at 01:34 PM.
  #9153  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:33 PM
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What if there was a home invasion right while they were wrestling? Without having that gun right on hand, the two might have been hurt by the invaders!
  #9154  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
No, that is only when dropped on a hard surface. Note this part that quarryBo quoted:



So, just be careful around soft surfaces, where, as we know, pistols can shoot unexpectedly.
What about that guy who was dancing at a bar and his gun fell off him and went off? I think he was perhaps an FBI agent or similar. I’m not able right now to look up the details but can do so later if needed.

I don’t know anything about guns so don’t know if the “safety” (whatever that is) could have malfunctioned or what.
  #9155  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:20 PM
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What about that guy who was dancing at a bar and his gun fell off him and went off? I think he was perhaps an FBI agent or similar. I’m not able right now to look up the details but can do so later if needed.
I was being maybe a little sarcastic. These guns are not supposed to go off except when you want them to. There was a story some while back about a gun that went off and injured a mail handler (who ships a loaded gun with a chambered round?), which was supposed to be designed with a hammer plate so that there could be no shell contact without the trigger being pulled, but, somehow that failed.

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I don’t know anything about guns so don’t know if the “safety” (whatever that is) could have malfunctioned or what.
AAUI, there are two kinds of safeties. The active kind is a lever that the user has to engage or disengage to lock the trigger. The passive kind is supposed to prevent accidental discharge with an elaborate mechanism that must have a trigger pull for the required parts to get to the shell. What I suspect happened is that the trigger became involved with some bedding and the wrestling action finished the job.

But it still fails to address the issue of the level of paranoia that drives a person to feel the need to have a gun on himself every waking moment (and probably close at hand while sleeping). It seems unfortunate to me that these powderkegs survive as long as they do.
  #9156  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
I was being maybe a little sarcastic. These guns are not supposed to go off except when you want them to. There was a story some while back about a gun that went off and injured a mail handler (who ships a loaded gun with a chambered round?), which was supposed to be designed with a hammer plate so that there could be no shell contact without the trigger being pulled, but, somehow that failed.



AAUI, there are two kinds of safeties. The active kind is a lever that the user has to engage or disengage to lock the trigger. The passive kind is supposed to prevent accidental discharge with an elaborate mechanism that must have a trigger pull for the required parts to get to the shell. What I suspect happened is that the trigger became involved with some bedding and the wrestling action finished the job.

But it still fails to address the issue of the level of paranoia that drives a person to feel the need to have a gun on himself every waking moment (and probably close at hand while sleeping). It seems unfortunate to me that these powderkegs survive as long as they do.
I totally agree.

However, the idea that a gun can go off accidentally in a fairly easy manner just adds another layer of insanity to it, in my view. Why is it that guns are forgiven for this? Other weapons wouldn’t be accepted this way, I don’t think. Nobody would want to carry a small bomb on themselves all the time that “probably” won’t go off if it gets jostled or dropped. I guess because a gun’s purpose is viewed as attacking someone else whereas a bomb can hurt anyone near it. But a gun can also do this.
  #9157  
Old 01-25-2020, 04:41 AM
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What about that guy who was dancing at a bar and his gun fell off him and went off? I think he was perhaps an FBI agent or similar. I’m not able right now to look up the details but can do so later if needed.

I don’t know anything about guns so don’t know if the “safety” (whatever that is) could have malfunctioned or what.
He was an FBI agent and IIRC was doing inebriated back-flips at an alcohol bar. I think the gun might have been a Glock for which lack of a safety is considered a feature. (Who can spare an extra second to switch the safety off when a Muslim jumps out of a closet?)

I remember the incident because I posted something like "If he didn't want to leave the gun in his car, couldn't he at least have removed the round from the chamber?"

That earned me rebukes from several Dopers. I was a complete ignoramus — the idea that anyone would carry a pistol without a round already in the chamber was too absurd for discussion.

There would be many fewer gun accidents if it weren't for this peculiar obsession of keeping a gun cocked and ready-to-fire at all times. (It takes about one second to cock a Glock, and the distinctive sound and action would serve as warning that you mean business. I guess for American Neo-Gunslingers the way to warn that business is meant is a bullet penetrating your victim's heart.)
  #9158  
Old 01-25-2020, 05:21 AM
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In the FBI drunk guy case, in all likelihood the gun fell out onto the floor due to backflipping and when drunk FBI guy quickly grabbed it to get it back he pulled the trigger enough to fire a bullet randomly into some guy. Very unlikely that such make and model would go off from falling on the floor.
  #9159  
Old 01-25-2020, 10:52 AM
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In the FBI drunk guy case, in all likelihood the gun fell out onto the floor due to backflipping and when drunk FBI guy quickly grabbed it to get it back he pulled the trigger enough to fire a bullet randomly into some guy. Very unlikely that such make and model would go off from falling on the floor.
Now that I’ve looked it up, I think this is what happened. You can actually see video of the incident and it doesn’t appear to go off until he frantically grabs it.
  #9160  
Old 01-25-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Skypist View Post
Guess he had to protect himself from that toddler!

He really does need to be charged. None of that “suffered enough” crap. If it had been a babysitter that was concealed carrying and the gun went off, people would be calling for the babysitter’s head. If you can’t control the deadly weapon you are carrying, you shouldn’t be allowed to carry it anymore.

I guess he felt threatened all the time, enough to risk carrying a deadly weapon on his body at all times. That is sad. Great going dad. You really protected yourself and your family!
The boy died.

I got a message that said you have chosen a post that is not part of this discussion.

Last edited by margin; 01-25-2020 at 11:31 AM.
  #9161  
Old 01-25-2020, 12:07 PM
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"X happened and it just went off" often upon closer scrutiny becomes something like "Y and/or Z happened in the right order while I was otherwise distracted so that when X happened it went off". Which of course still means goddamn stupid use of a dangerous tool.

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Originally Posted by Skypist View Post
Now that I’ve looked it up, I think this is what happened. You can actually see video of the incident and it doesn’t appear to go off until he frantically grabs it.
Right - it did not fire upon hitting the floor but upon him rushing to grab it.

Also, about safeties: as mentioned not all weapons have the same safety mechanisms, and some users either introduce factors that weaken those, such as installing a lighter trigger, or choose to ignore small but critical details such that for example a striker-fired pistol has no "decocking" feature so it's even more imperative than usual to remember to keep both foreign objects and fingers out of the trigger guard.

However, that said, you don't engage in horseplay while you are carrying, no matter what. That is asking for trouble big time.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 01-25-2020 at 12:09 PM.
  #9162  
Old 01-25-2020, 05:22 PM
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The boy died.
That is sad as hell. That dad needs to never have access to guns again, but it's too late for his little boy.
  #9163  
Old 01-27-2020, 02:07 PM
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We all know that school shootings happen because 'we took God out of the schools'- which makes church shootings particularly puzzling- so who knows why this member of the well-regulated militia was taking a gun to church.

Was there criminal intent? Maybe he wanted to have it blessed. Maybe he intended to protect the flock.
Maybe he was just putting the gun away after surviving the US's well-known and harrowing traditional Sunday morning traffic jams.

But PTL, hallelujah, and pass the hat- the only person he shot was himself!

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Last edited by Ca3799; 01-27-2020 at 02:08 PM.
  #9164  
Old 01-27-2020, 04:52 PM
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That is sad as hell. That dad needs to never have access to guns again, but it's too late for his little boy.
Based on the dementia, the absolute crippling paranoia of the father, that he felt the need to have or gun on his person every moment of the day, we might find consolation in the inference that the boy would have most likely been raised in a way that would have exacerbated his probably faulty genes, turning him into an insane criminal. Thus, the gun took rid of someone who was a potential thug. That would be a good thing, right?

Meanwhile, since the father has displayed his mental/emotional defect so clearly, he needs to be institutionalized (indefinitely), so that he can have space to deal with his grief, have his dementia properly treated and be kept well away from any firearms.
  #9165  
Old 02-02-2020, 10:03 AM
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Apparently you're allowed to bypass the metal dectector at the Kentucky state house if you have a gun, making it unclear why the metal detector is there in the first place.
  #9166  
Old 02-07-2020, 02:53 PM
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Apparently you're allowed to bypass the metal dectector at the Kentucky state house if you have a gun, making it unclear why the metal detector is there in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A comment at twitter above
I was there the other day. There's still a sign says you can't have posters on a stick, but the state police told me if I taped a poster to a rifle barrel, that'd be fine. Totally serious.
But I don't think there's much mystery about the metal detector. Some gunslingers are turned back. See anything different? Zoom in on their skin color.
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