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  #151  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:51 PM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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can someone send me a PM when the NBA Finals start?
  #152  
Old 05-20-2017, 06:46 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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When Cleveland went into Boston and ripped them up on national TV with about 10 games left into the season, that was enough evidence for me who the Alpha Dog was in the East. Records, schmecords. The Cavs were just bored and ready to get on with the real season.
As I said...LOL

Seriously, though, Cleveland didn't just beat Boston last night, that took away their manhood on national TV. I'll tell you one thing: Danny Ainge must have been absolutely PISSED at watching that performance. That was a gutless effort from Boston. I've seen lopsided losses but watching the game, that loss was worse than the score. Boston had no energy. They were afraid of Cleveland.

I like Brad Stevens as a coach. I think he's a smart guy and has good character. And his calm and composed nature has helped this team mature. But he's gonna have to show some Gregg Popovich between now and game 3 or I wouldn't put it past Ainge to show him the door. Ainge played with possibly the greatest Celtics teams of all time and those guys were brutally competitive. That's not what Ainge stands for and if the Celtics play like that again I bet he phones up his old teammate Larry Legend and begs him to come back into coaching again.
  #153  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:32 AM
Kiros Kiros is offline
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But he's gonna have to show some Gregg Popovich between now and game 3 or I wouldn't put it past Ainge to show him the door.
As embarrassing as last night was - and I missed most of it due to a wedding rehearsal dinner, but what I saw was pretty embarrassing - there is literally zero chance that this happens.
  #154  
Old 05-20-2017, 11:45 AM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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So glad I have plans tonight and won't see the Spurs game
  #155  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:18 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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The Cavs can breathe a sigh of relief, Isaiah Thomas is out for the rest of the season. I thought they were in trouble.
  #156  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:12 PM
ekedolphin ekedolphin is offline
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So.

As if we weren't already pretty much guaranteed to see Cavs/Warriors III when the playoffs (perhaps even the regular season) began, now the Spurs and Celtics have both lost their best players.

I see both the Warriors and Cavs going into the NBA Finals with 12-0 records.
  #157  
Old 05-20-2017, 10:57 PM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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So.

As if we weren't already pretty much guaranteed to see Cavs/Warriors III when the playoffs (perhaps even the regular season) began, now the Spurs and Celtics have both lost their best players.

I see both the Warriors and Cavs going into the NBA Finals with 12-0 records.
Yup, GS up 98-86 headed into the 4th and will likely be up 3-0


We know cleveland will go 4-0 because they are going home where they are tougher to beat
  #158  
Old 05-20-2017, 11:47 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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The strange thing is, in every game there's been points when San Antonio or Boston have looked like they were about to make it a game. Then four minutes later they're down 15 with a stunned look on their faces like "what just happened?"
  #159  
Old 05-20-2017, 11:53 PM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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The strange thing is, in every game there's been points when San Antonio or Boston have looked like they were about to make it a game. Then four minutes later they're down 15 with a stunned look on their faces like "what just happened?"
Those damm 3's
  #160  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:16 PM
asahi asahi is offline
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This is one of the first years in a long time when I just haven't been able to watch the NBA playoffs, which is usually a pretty good pretty after the first round. But I don't think I've missed anything from the looks of things. It's unfortunate that San Antonio's been plagued with injuries just when it looked like they were beginning to play their best basketball of the year, but I still think GS is a better team by at least 2 games in a best of 7 series. OTOH, I never really doubted that Cleveland would take the East -- they just got bored. And now suddenly, they're looking like a very deep and balanced type of team that can go small & fast or longer & stronger inside -- or mix it up with both.
  #161  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:21 PM
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This is one of the first years in a long time when I just haven't been able to watch the NBA playoffs, which is usually a pretty good pretty after the first round. But I don't think I've missed anything from the looks of things. It's unfortunate that San Antonio's been plagued with injuries just when it looked like they were beginning to play their best basketball of the year, but I still think GS is a better team by at least 2 games in a best of 7 series. OTOH, I never really doubted that Cleveland would take the East -- they just got bored. And now suddenly, they're looking like a very deep and balanced type of team that can go small & fast or longer & stronger inside -- or mix it up with both.

Will Lebron leave again if the Cavs lose in the Finals? I really hope not because it would really destroy his legacy
  #162  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:11 PM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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Celtics go into Cleveland and win Game 3???
  #163  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:20 PM
Kiros Kiros is offline
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When LeBron was out of the game in the late third quarter and the C's made their run, and then he was weirdly passive for much of the fourth, it was suddenly Really Obvious how the Cavs only ended up as the 2 seed. They're very, very vulnerable when he's off the court and/or has an off night. It's a testament to how great he is that it took 11 games before he had one.

That said, I am NOT jumping out of my seat to spend $300 for a pair of the cheapest seats in the house to see them lose by 40 again in game 5.
  #164  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:23 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Now I regret not watching that game.

ETA: LeBron really is that team. He willed them to the Finals two years ago with Irving and Love out, and just about did it again singlehandedly last year to come back from 3-1. As much as I want to dislike him, and he's given plenty of reasons, the dude can flat out play.

Last edited by Chisquirrel; 05-21-2017 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Added a few nuts
  #165  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:36 PM
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This separates the Cavs from the warriors now. They were unable to keep pace with the warriors and go up 3-0.
  #166  
Old 05-22-2017, 07:59 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Meh, I wouldn't read too much into a single loss. It's a matter of sports psychology: Cleveland had been beating up on the Celtics going back to the end of the regular season and they had cruised through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. In fact they had just turned in one of the most dominant performances in NBA post-season history and were well on their way to winning again. We've seen this happen in all different kinds of sports: a team gets so dominant that it loses its competitive edge and gets caught off guard. I'm not saying Boston didn't deserve to win or that they are completely incapable of playing Cleveland at their best, but the only likely explanation is that Cleveland mentally got bored - just like they were for much of the season - and got caught napping. I expect different results in game 5.

On a different note, while I don't think the outcome of the series will change, this was a huge win for Boston going forward. The team showed character and I think it reassures the young nucleus of talent that, regardless of what happens in this series, there's something to build in the future.
  #167  
Old 05-22-2017, 08:03 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Now I regret not watching that game.

ETA: LeBron really is that team. He willed them to the Finals two years ago with Irving and Love out, and just about did it again singlehandedly last year to come back from 3-1. As much as I want to dislike him, and he's given plenty of reasons, the dude can flat out play.
Lebron is definitely the center of the team but he does have a supporting cast that has to be reckoned with. Kyrie Irving is a solid player and a starter on any team. Korver is a great perimeter shooter that has to be guarded. Kevin Love is a great inside presence. Deron Williams can create offense on his own. This Cavs team is reminiscent of the 1990s Bulls and the Miami Heat of a few years ago. There's no doubt that Lebron's the centerpiece, but he's not playing with Verajao and scabs anymore. He's got a very solid supporting cast. Don't kid yourselves -- Cleveland is a very, very good and deep team.

Last edited by asahi; 05-22-2017 at 08:04 AM.
  #168  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:29 AM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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I'd have to argue that the Cavs are not especially deep. Look what happens when LeBron doesn't put up 30. Love and Kyrie got theirs, but if LeBron has trouble putting in the hoop, the team struggles to win.

The Cavs' big 3 are among the best, that's why they're as good as they are. Tristan Thompson is an adequate PF. JR Smith would be a role player off the bench for a lot of teams, and the Cavs' depth issues go on from there.

On the other side, look how much better Boston defends without Isaiah Thomas. Just sayin'. By the way, there is still a 0% chance of them winning this series.
  #169  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:31 AM
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Meh, I wouldn't read too much into a single loss. It's a matter of sports psychology: Cleveland had been beating up on the Celtics going back to the end of the regular season and they had cruised through the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. In fact they had just turned in one of the most dominant performances in NBA post-season history and were well on their way to winning again. We've seen this happen in all different kinds of sports: a team gets so dominant that it loses its competitive edge and gets caught off guard. I'm not saying Boston didn't deserve to win or that they are completely incapable of playing Cleveland at their best, but the only likely explanation is that Cleveland mentally got bored - just like they were for much of the season - and got caught napping. I expect different results in game 5.
All that, and the Celts without Isaiah Thomas are a very different (not better, just different) team, and the Cavs failed to adjust.

Quote:
On a different note, while I don't think the outcome of the series will change, this was a huge win for Boston going forward. The team showed character and I think it reassures the young nucleus of talent that, regardless of what happens in this series, there's something to build in the future.
Getting solid postseason minutes out of Jaylen Brown is also a huge win, he's starting to develop nicely. Percolating, if you will.
  #170  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:32 AM
Kiros Kiros is offline
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Lebron is definitely the center of the team but he does have a supporting cast that has to be reckoned with. Kyrie Irving is a solid player and a starter on any team. Korver is a great perimeter shooter that has to be guarded. Kevin Love is a great inside presence. Deron Williams can create offense on his own. This Cavs team is reminiscent of the 1990s Bulls and the Miami Heat of a few years ago. There's no doubt that Lebron's the centerpiece, but he's not playing with Verajao and scabs anymore. He's got a very solid supporting cast. Don't kid yourselves -- Cleveland is a very, very good and deep team.
Counterpoint: we now have three years of sample size and can say fairly confidently that the Cavs lose to basically everyone when LeBron is the only one missing the game (either because he's injured or they rested him but played Irving/Love), and they struggle to varying degrees when he's off the court within games (lots of stats we could pull here, from simple +/- to advanced stats that adjust for the fact that when he's out the other starters are often out... and they all say the same thing). We also have evidence that when one or both of the other two stars miss a game but LeBron plays, they're still very, very good.

It's a much better roster than in the past in that everything fits around LeBron. There's a much higher ceiling than, say, his first time in CLE, just because everyone around him can actually shoot. When he can play 42 MPG in the playoffs and never have a long term injury, that's a great recipe for success! I'm sure they would rearrange the system around Love if LeBron were to disappear tomorrow, and they might even have some success that way. But to paraphrase you a bit, don't kid yourself - the Cavs still hemorrhage points to other teams' benches, they still lose almost all of the games that LeBron sits, and as he goes, they go.
  #171  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:36 AM
Kiros Kiros is offline
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On the other side, look how much better Boston defends without Isaiah Thomas. Just sayin'. By the way, there is still a 0% chance of them winning this series.
Oh god, this is so true. I have thoroughly enjoyed the IT experience this year, but I think we have pretty good evidence at this point that the NBA is now smart enough to exploit a short PG over a seven game series, no matter how good they are on offense (IT, the Portland backcourt, even Kyrie to some degree).
  #172  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:50 AM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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I'd have to argue that the Cavs are not especially deep. Look what happens when LeBron doesn't put up 30. Love and Kyrie got theirs, but if LeBron has trouble putting in the hoop, the team struggles to win.

The Cavs' big 3 are among the best, that's why they're as good as they are. Tristan Thompson is an adequate PF. JR Smith would be a role player off the bench for a lot of teams, and the Cavs' depth issues go on from there.

On the other side, look how much better Boston defends without Isaiah Thomas. Just sayin'. By the way, there is still a 0% chance of them winning this series.
Especially since they only won.last night because of a fluke shot
  #173  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:17 PM
markdash markdash is offline
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Especially since they only won.last night because of a fluke shot
And which shot was that? A wide-open three pointer that got a friendly bounce? Hardly a fluke shot.
  #174  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:05 PM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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And which shot was that? A wide-open three pointer that got a friendly bounce? Hardly a fluke shot.
Yes that's the shot. It bounced 3 times before going in the basket.
  #175  
Old 05-22-2017, 03:02 PM
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Yes that's the shot. It bounced 3 times before going in the basket.
Eh, I wouldn't call that a fluke. It took a circuitous route into the basket, but that was a rather high-percentage shot overall. It's not like it was a half court shot or something.
  #176  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:05 AM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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The Spurs' season is over and so, apparently, is the career of Manu Ginobili. He says he'll make a decision in a couple weeks, but the way Pop was talking sounds like the decision is made. I always liked Manu, he was fun to watch.
  #177  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:06 AM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Well, that was anticlimactic. The standing ovations for Manu Ginobli were nice, but the game just wasn't...anything. By the time I turned it on, the Warriors were up by 14, and it never even seemed like it was THAT close.

From what I've gathered, Klay Thompson has sort of taken a back seat with the arrival of Durant. As much as I love me some Splash Brothers, giving him the chance to sit back and focus on his defense. That will be needed against LeBron and Co.
  #178  
Old 05-23-2017, 04:39 PM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
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From what I've gathered, Klay Thompson has sort of taken a back seat with the arrival of Durant.
Not really, if anything he was less affected than Curry who deferred a bit too much early in the season. He averaged 22.1 pts/game last year and 22.3 this year. His minutes per game has also increased slightly from 33.3 to 34.0 as he plays with the "second unit" more often in the staggered schedule they've been using.

It's more that he just has been in a slump throughout the playoffs. As one of the commentators notice last night, he's getting his shots - the problem is he only converted one of eight in the first half . Of all the "All-Star Warriors" he has always been the one who runs the most hot and cold and right now he's just pretty damn cold.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 05-23-2017 at 04:40 PM.
  #179  
Old 05-24-2017, 10:11 AM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Welp, I'm glad to be wrong on that. I've always known he was a hot or cold shooter, but damn. He really is in a scoring rut. Looking at his per game statistics, he's almost 10 ppg below last year (which was significantly higher than any other year), and below every other postseason as well.

In my later wanderings, LeBron James is averaging over 32 ppg, 6 more than last year, and the most in a postseason since 2008-9.

Crazily, that's still less than Jordan AVERAGED in postseason play, though he played fewer postseason games than James has.
  #180  
Old 05-24-2017, 10:44 AM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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The first round was best of 5 when Jordan played.

And for an example of the Cavs' lack of depth, just look at lasts night's box score. All players outside of LeBron, Kyrie and Love, scored a total of 19 points. Kyle Korver played 20 minutes and did not even take a shot. And it's not like they were stuffing the stat sheet with rebounds and assists, either.
  #181  
Old 05-24-2017, 01:05 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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He was also getting bounced in the first round, while averaging over 40 points a game. It's not a knock against Jordan at all - the league didn't seem nearly as uneven as it does now. James' teams are virtually guaranteed a berth in the Conference Finals at least, given LeBron James and the paucity of strong teams in the East. When your current "powerhouses" are Toronto, Chicago, Boston, and Atlanta (outside of LeBron James-led teams), there's nothing really scary until the Finals.

I regret the fact that I was too young to truly understand Jordan's dominance while he was playing. Does the NBA have anything like NFL's Gamepass where I can go back and watch all his games? I'd pay real money for that.
  #182  
Old 05-24-2017, 05:16 PM
zamboniracer zamboniracer is offline
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Will Lebron leave again if the Cavs lose in the Finals? I really hope not because it would really destroy his legacy
IMHO Lebron won't leave and if he did it wouldn't hurt his legacy, whatever that is, the least little bit.
  #183  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:56 PM
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IMHO Lebron won't leave and if he did it wouldn't hurt his legacy, whatever that is, the least little bit.
Why if he left a team for the 3rd after failure?
  #184  
Old 05-24-2017, 06:58 PM
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I like Golden State in 5 over Cleveland

I like Golden State in 4 over Cleveland if Boston wins tomorrow night
  #185  
Old 05-24-2017, 07:23 PM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
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Why if he left a team for the 3rd after failure?
Yeah, but he already has had tremendous success. Especially after the heroics of last year I think his reputation is pretty much sealed. Thirty years from now it will be nothing much more than a footnote that he went team-hopping - his overall brilliance will outshine everything else over time.

I expect much the same to happen with Durant, if he wins a championship or two. In thirty years nobody will really care he left Oklahoma ( after an eight year investment ) to form a super-team.
  #186  
Old 05-25-2017, 08:58 AM
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I like Golden State in 5 over Cleveland

I like Golden State in 4 over Cleveland if Boston wins tomorrow night
Adam Silver is probably having nightmares about GS sweeping Cleveland in the Finals. That neither team had any real challenge to get there is already not a great look for the NBA. If the GS superteam blows the doors off the Cavs, you have to wonder what's the point.
  #187  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:07 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is online now
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The first round was best of 5 when Jordan played.

And for an example of the Cavs' lack of depth, just look at lasts night's box score. All players outside of LeBron, Kyrie and Love, scored a total of 19 points. Kyle Korver played 20 minutes and did not even take a shot. And it's not like they were stuffing the stat sheet with rebounds and assists, either.
I seriously wish they'd return to that format.
  #188  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:42 AM
mmkt mmkt is offline
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I seriously wish they'd return to that format.
I think it was expanded to 7 to increase the chances of seeing a upset. And that's what we saw in 2006 when the 8th seed warriors upset the number 1 seed macs in the first round.
  #189  
Old 05-25-2017, 09:47 AM
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And for an example of the Cavs' lack of depth, just look at lasts night's box score. All players outside of LeBron, Kyrie and Love, scored a total of 19 points. Kyle Korver played 20 minutes and did not even take a shot. And it's not like they were stuffing the stat sheet with rebounds and assists, either.
Which is why, despite Bradley Beals' assertions, Cavs - Wizards would have been a total shit show. Washington had, easily, the worst bench in the playoffs. Starters vs. starters would be amazing, then we'd get treated to 5-10 minutes of absolutely no one scoring when the benches went in, and eventually it would become an MLB-style coaching duel, just waiting out the other team to substitute and take advantage. Cavs would still easily win the end because, y'know, Lebron, but it would not be entertaining for anyone.
  #190  
Old 05-25-2017, 10:25 PM
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I think it was expanded to 7 to increase the chances of seeing a upset. And that's what we saw in 2006 when the 8th seed warriors upset the number 1 seed macs in the first round.
An upset is more likely in a best of 5 format. I still remember the Nuggets beating the Sonics in 1994 or 95? Will never forget the iconic image of Dikembe Mutumbo holding onto the ball while on the ground (and Gary Payton's disbelief). But to the point, the 'lesser' team has to win fewer games, which makes it easier for the upset. The Warriors upset the Mavs that year because they simply outplayed them.

Last edited by asahi; 05-25-2017 at 10:25 PM.
  #191  
Old 05-25-2017, 10:29 PM
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I guess we'll find out soon enough, but while I agree that Golden State is arguably the favorite to win it all, I don't think the Cavs will be pushovers. But that being said, Kevin Durant is good at both ends of the floor and if he can harass the layups and block some shots, Cleveland's going to find this year's finals different than last.
  #192  
Old 05-25-2017, 11:40 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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I think it was expanded to 7 to increase the chances of seeing a upset. And that's what we saw in 2006 when the 8th seed warriors upset the number 1 seed macs in the first round.
Fewer games equals more chances of an upset.
  #193  
Old 05-25-2017, 11:47 PM
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Fewer games equals more chances of an upset.
I never felt that way because once the team with homecourt won the first 2, they were one game away from winning the series.
  #194  
Old 05-26-2017, 09:32 AM
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The NBA (and ABC) really, really want this series to go 7 games. If I were a cynical person I'd wonder how these games will be officiated. It's bad enough we're getting the third straight matchup of the same two teams in the Finals.
  #195  
Old 05-26-2017, 12:31 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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I guess we'll find out soon enough, but while I agree that Golden State is arguably the favorite to win it all, I don't think the Cavs will be pushovers. But that being said, Kevin Durant is good at both ends of the floor and if he can harass the layups and block some shots, Cleveland's going to find this year's finals different than last.
Opening odds have Golden State at -260, or just shy of 70/30 to win. That sounds about right to me, given the addition of Durant.
  #196  
Old 05-26-2017, 01:11 PM
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The first round was expanded to 7 games in order to make more money, not for any positive basketball reasons.
  #197  
Old 06-02-2017, 06:40 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Blowout.

I went to my local watering hole for the first half and even though it was respectably close, didn't bother to watch the 2nd. I could tell that Cleveland was struggling just to keep the deficit within 10 points. It wasn't that the Cavs were playing badly - they just had no answers for GS's pace. Even without Durant, the Warriors pose all sorts of defensive match-up problems but at least the Cavs' defense can step up and try to keep the game out of the paint and force the swoosh brothers to beat them from the perimeter. But with a healthy KD there are just too many ways the Warriors can win. Cleveland might win a game, but I can't see this going past 5. Not unless there's a key injury.

Last edited by asahi; 06-02-2017 at 06:41 AM.
  #198  
Old 06-02-2017, 10:52 AM
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I didn't get to see the game, I fell asleep before it came on (damn late West coast games!), but apparently I didn't miss much.

Was hoping this series would be more competitive, and this was only Game 1, it could still be.

I've recently embraced the fact that I prefer to watch sports when I don't care who wins. I do have teams I like, but watching them is very stressful. I don't want to have to care. I just wanna see some cool shit.
  #199  
Old 06-02-2017, 11:09 AM
borschevsky borschevsky is offline
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
I've recently embraced the fact that I prefer to watch sports when I don't care who wins.
Yeah, I've decided this too.

It sure looks like the Warriors are going to roll over the Cavs. In a weird way, this might bolster LeBron's legacy. These Warriors are going to be remembered as a great team, which ends up making the 2016 finals a more impressive feat for LeBron.
  #200  
Old 06-02-2017, 11:16 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Originally Posted by borschevsky View Post
Yeah, I've decided this too.

It sure looks like the Warriors are going to roll over the Cavs. In a weird way, this might bolster LeBron's legacy. These Warriors are going to be remembered as a great team, which ends up making the 2016 finals a more impressive feat for LeBron.
Yeah, I know people may point to LBJ's W-L record in the Finals but it's a pretty lame academic exercise. James has had the misfortune of playing some great teams and with the exception of the Miami Heat, he's pretty much had to carry his teams to the Finals. In my mind, James' legacy was actually cemented in the 2015 loss to the Warriors. The fact that they actually had a 2-1 lead at one point against a team that could have easily swept them was pretty impressive, and without Irving, it was pretty much the Lebron show. Coming from a 3-1 deficit last year against a team that had the best W-L record in regular season history built on that legacy. But I'm afraid they're playing a Warriors team that just has too many ways to stretch the Cavs this time.
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