Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 05-01-2009, 09:58 PM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
So, in order to support your view of this trivial incident, you insist that I carefully review the facts of this minor footnote to history. Perhaps then, I might better appreciate your stance on this utterly vapid event?

And to accomplish this end, you would have me read one of the snottiest pedants to ever tap a typewriter key?
Hey, his was merely the first suitable account I happened upon while Googling.

And it matters not in the slightest whether you find that incident trivial, vapid or of no import whatsoever. What does matter is that I don't agree, and that it was based upon my assessment of the likelihood of (apparently sucessful) chicanery on Hillary's part with regard to that incident that I posted the comments that Equipoise listed above.

So I guess I'm gonna have to retract that 'men of good character' part where you're concerned, given that rather than acknowledge that I never so much as insinuated that Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster you've simply switched instead to quibbling over whether the events that did trigger my comments really happened or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster
I guess I have to deny his credibility because he never bothered to write a correction...
Why should he write a correction?

He laid out an accurate accounting of the events that transpired, and as it happens the independent counsel could find no proof that document tampering/removal occurred as a result of those events.

How is anything that Safire wrote negated by the fact that no forensic proof of wrongdoing could be found?

And besides, denials and lack of forensic evidence does not innocence make, as we all found out once the existence of a certain blue dress finally came to light.
  #102  
Old 05-01-2009, 10:12 PM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 28,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Why should he write a correction?
As you seem to be logically challenged, I have to say that he needed to make a correction since you still thought that his points from the past before the trials and inquiries are still valid. (Time lines are deadly for many right wingers still...)
Quote:
And besides, denials and lack of forensic evidence does not innocence make, as we all found out once the existence of a certain blue dress finally came to light.
It was Kenneth Star's fishing expedition that found the dress, Kenneth Star himself had to say later that there was nothing to be found regarding the Foster's papers or his death.

The "blue dress" of the Vince Foster papers failed to show up after several investigations. After the verdict of the courts, it is only deluded beings the ones that keep on trying to make something out of that incident.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 05-01-2009 at 10:14 PM.
  #103  
Old 05-01-2009, 10:25 PM
Squink is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yes
Posts: 20,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
So, this whole Vince Foster diversion into nowheresville....is this the stupid idea for Friday, or Saturday?
Let's run it through 'a dynamic, forward-looking organization that will amplify the common-sense and wisdom of our fellow citizens through a grassroots dialogue with Republican leaders', and see what pops out the other end.
Surely the National Council for a New America will save us all.
  #104  
Old 05-01-2009, 10:27 PM
elucidator is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Further
Posts: 59,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
...So I guess I'm gonna have to retract that 'men of good character' part where you're concerned...
Bereft. Despondent.
  #105  
Old 05-01-2009, 10:35 PM
Algher is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,586
[Looks up from his beer, Republicans still idiots, steals a chip from Elucidator's plate and goes back to muttering]
  #106  
Old 05-01-2009, 10:58 PM
elucidator is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Further
Posts: 59,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squink View Post
....Surely the National Council for a New America will save us all.
The site is a bleeding miracle, Squink. It burbles on and on in a sensible, mature tone about absolutely nothing. There are no ideas. Not that there are no new ideas, there aren't any old ones, either. Its a stunning effort, really. There are no provocative positions. There are no controversial notions. It is a sombre, sensible, and clear-eyed vacuum.

However did they manage to assemble all those cliches without accidentally including an idea?
  #107  
Old 05-02-2009, 12:11 AM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Hey, his was merely the first suitable account I happened upon while Googling.

And it matters not in the slightest whether you find that incident trivial, vapid or of no import whatsoever. What does matter is that I don't agree, and that it was based upon my assessment of the likelihood of (apparently sucessful) chicanery on Hillary's part with regard to that incident that I posted the comments that Equipoise listed above.
What matters is that it didn't fucking happen. Did. Not. Happen. Happened? It did not.
Quote:
Why should he write a correction?
Because it didn't happen.
Quote:
And besides, denials and lack of forensic evidence does not innocence make
Actually, yes it does. That's the way it works in America. No evidence = presumption of evidence.

Starr said he found no evidence whatsoever. Neither forensic or testimonial. Absolutely no reason to believe it happened. You are making accusations of evidence tampering against Hillary based on nothing. It's beyond asinine to make totally unsupported allegations, and then say that everybody else has to prove they're false.

Let me tell you, if your boy, Starr, couldn't find anything or get anybody to squeal, there was less than nothing to it.

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 05-02-2009 at 12:13 AM.
  #108  
Old 05-02-2009, 12:39 AM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
What matters is that it didn't fucking happen. Did. Not. Happen. Happened? It did not.
The files disappeared and turned up a week later in the Clinton living quarters.

That created suspicion.

That suspicion is what I referred to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
Actually, yes it does. That's the way it works in America. No evidence = presumption of evidence.
In a court of law, yes. In the court of public opinion, not so much. For example, how do you feel re 'Bush lied' to get us into Iraq? There is absolutely no way to know what Bush's thinking was, and there was evidence, believed by most of the world's intelligence agencies and Bill and Hillary Clinton themselves, that Iraq possessed or was developing WMD. But none were found so the overwhelming attitude around here is that "Bush lied". Where's your forensic evidence there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
Starr said he found no evidence whatsoever. Neither forensic or testimonial. Absolutely no reason to believe it happened.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
You are making accusations of evidence tampering against Hillary based on nothing.
Not true. I'm making allegations of mysterious happenings with regard to files from Foster's office. (Which aren't actually 'allegations' at all, but matters of fact.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic
It's beyond asinine to make totally unsupported allegations, and then say that everybody else has to prove they're false.
The allegations I've made are totally supported by the facts. The inference to be drawn from them is obviously a matter of political persuasion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [quote=Diogenes the Cynic
]Let me tell you, if your boy, Starr, couldn't find anything or get anybody to squeal, there was less than nothing to it.
That simply isn't true. There may have been nothing to it, or there may have been something to it which was successfully removed or destroyed and which subsequently prevented it from coming to light.
  #109  
Old 05-02-2009, 12:41 AM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
Quote:
The files disappeared and turned up a week later in the Clinton living quarters.
No they didn't.
  #110  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:04 AM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
Is it your contention that Safire's chronology is in error?
  #111  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:11 AM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
His chronology of what? Nothing happened. Nothing "disappeared" and "reappeared."
  #112  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:22 AM
kaylasdad99 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 31,693

nitpick:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
His chronology of what? Nothing happened. Nothing "disappeared" and "reappeared."
Actually, I was under the impression that some billing records from the Rose Law firm were discovered in Mrs. Clinton's personal spaces several months after they were said to be unfindable (in response to a subpeona from -- somebody; I don't recall who, or why they were wanted).

Nothing to do with Vince Foster, of course, but it certainly undercuts the accuracy of the overly broad statement Nothing "disappeared" and "reappeared."

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 05-02-2009 at 01:23 AM.
  #113  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:24 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 28,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
In a court of law, yes. In the court of public opinion, not so much. For example, how do you feel re 'Bush lied' to get us into Iraq? There is absolutely no way to know what Bush's thinking was, and there was evidence, believed by most of the world's intelligence agencies and Bill and Hillary Clinton themselves, that Iraq possessed or was developing WMD. But none were found so the overwhelming attitude around here is that "Bush lied". Where's your forensic evidence there?
Things like that is what make me suspect that Starving Artist is really a plant trying his damnedest to make right wingers look bad.

The choice regarding what Bush was thinking is still between being a liar or an incompetent fool. You are trying to convince us that there is an advantage on the poison selected.

However, the Downing street memos tell me that:

http://downingstreetmemo.com/memos.html
Quote:
There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.
So, there were many times from there when Bush told lies to the American people, a few weeks before the war he said that "we'll call for a vote." (for the second UN resolution, it never took place even though he remarked that it would take place no matter what) and "I've not made up our mind about military action."

But the decision to go to war was already made. A liar or an incompetent? Does it have to be a choice?
  #114  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:30 AM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
I knew a woman once whose philosophy, if caught red-handed at something she shouldn't be doing, was to deny, deny, deny...under the belief that blatant and continued denials whould eventually cause the accuser to doubt what they'd seen with their own eyes.

That won't work with me.

To wit, from William Safire in the New York Times: [bolding mine]

(1) Foster's body is discovered July 20. White House aides, unobserved, are in and out of his office that night and next day. His possession of the Whitewater file is kept secret. (2) On Thursday, July 22, White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum, with intimidated cops nearby, gives Foster's box of Whitewater files to Ms. Williams (not, as was long said, to the Clintons' lawyer). (3) After talking to Hillary Clinton, Ms. Williams locks the files in a closet in the third-floor family quarters of the White House, to which she had the only key. (4) Not until Tuesday, July 27, are the Whitewater files retrieved by the lawyer, then Robert Barnett.

So, a) Foster had files regarding Whitewater that had been kept secret. b) a box of Whitewater files was given to Williams. c) After consulting with Hillary Clinton, Williams, who had the only key, locked the box in a closet in the White House living quarters. d) The files were finally turned over to Barnett on July 27, a week after Foster's suicide.

Now a box of Whitewater files may be construed as nothing but thin air to you, but to me it's a box of Whitewater files.
  #115  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:35 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 28,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
Actually, I was under the impression that some billing records from the Rose Law firm were discovered in Mrs. Clinton's personal spaces several months after they were said to be unfindable (in response to a subpeona from -- somebody; I don't recall who, or why they were wanted).

Nothing to do with Vince Foster, of course, but it certainly undercuts the accuracy of the overly broad statement Nothing "disappeared" and "reappeared."
IIRC, an office worker later claimed to have misplaced those specific items, in any case the items were produced and the courts decided that there was no evidence even to accuse them of obstruction of justice, and that IMHO was the point of the accusations of Safire and others. An accusation that was not demonstrated even in a court of law.
  #116  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:46 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 28,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
I knew a woman once whose philosophy, if caught red-handed at something she shouldn't be doing, was to deny, deny, deny...under the belief that blatant and continued denials whould eventually cause the accuser to doubt what they'd seen with their own eyes.

That won't work with me..
That is ok, you are on record of not believing the conclusions of judges and prosecutors after the evidence was already reviewed.

Yours would be a proud position for a "birther" to have (in the sense that they are proud to ignore even court decisions and the opinion of prosecutors). However, it does make many independents and reasonable Republicans to realize how doomed they are if you are a typical example of the conservative base.

Keep up the good work.
  #117  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:47 AM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
Things like that is what make me suspect that Starving Artist is really a plant trying his damnedest to make right wingers look bad.

The choice regarding what Bush was thinking is still between being a liar or an incompetent fool. You are trying to convince us that there is an advantage on the poison selected.

However, the Downing street memos tell me that:

http://downingstreetmemo.com/memos.html


So, there were many times from there when Bush told lies to the American people, a few weeks before the war he said that "we'll call for a vote." (for the second UN resolution, it never took place even though he remarked that it would take place no matter what) and "I've not made up our mind about military action."

But the decision to go to war was already made. A liar or an incompetent? Does it have to be a choice?
There have been many times in my life when I may have wanted to do something, but thought a different approach may be better. Then I may have decided on a different approach than that, and then I may have gone back to the original plan after all.

All your memo shows is that Bush felt different ways at different times, no doubt influenced by the hundreds or thousands of bits of information coming in with regard to events transpiring either in or with regard to events in Iraq.

The big lie propagated around here is that Bush, knowing full well that Hussein didn't have any WMD, lied and told the American people that he did and that going to war against Iraq was therefore justified and necessary.

To date I have seen no probative (i.e., proving) evidence that he knew or did any such thing, and barring personal one-on-one confession to the contrary from Bush himself or unquestionable mind-reading ability, there is absolutely no way for anyone to say with certainty that Bush lied about WMD to get us into war with Iraq.

Dio claimed that without evidence the presumption was toward innocence, and I merely used the opinion of so many like you (and him) around here with regard to Bush to show that such a presumption is hardly de rigueur around here.
  #118  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:50 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 28,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
Dio claimed that without evidence the presumption was toward innocence, and I merely used the opinion of so many like you (and him) around here with regard to Bush to show that such a presumption is hardly de rigueur around here.
Uh uh. Just a simple question: Did Bush said that he was going to get a second UN resolution, no matter what? Did he told us the truth?
  #119  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:55 AM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
That is ok, you are on record of not believing the conclusions of judges and prosecutors after the evidence was already reviewed.
I be very interested in knowing how you come to this conclusion. I obviously accept that no evidence of chicanery was discovered, and I've said as much. Still, that hardly proves no such chicanery took place, and just like with guys and "Bush lied", I'm free to make that observation. Still, you have seen no call by me to press charges against her, have you? And if not, wouldn't that indicate that I accept the conclusions of the authorities that no evidence of wrongdoing that would hold up in court could be found, despite the fact that I personally believe that evidence tampering either took place or was deemed unnecessary prior to its having been turned over to the authorities.
  #120  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:02 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 28,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
I be very interested in knowing how you come to this conclusion. I obviously accept that no evidence of chicanery was discovered, and I've said as much. Still, that hardly proves no such chicanery took place, and just like with guys and "Bush lied", I'm free to make that observation. Still, you have seen no call by me to press charges against her, have you?
Double jeopardy and all that jazz, but that is also my point. You are beating a dead horse. As for Bush, the judgment of history is still coming.

And I'm a Historian

Quote:
And if not, wouldn't that indicate that I accept the conclusions of the authorities that no evidence of wrongdoing that would hold up in court could be found, despite the fact that I personally believe that evidence tampering either took place or was deemed unnecessary prior to its having been turned over to the authorities.
As a wise man said, you are entitled to your opinions but not the facts. And the fact is that no evidence of Chicanery regarding Foster's documents was found by the courts, several independent investigations, or by even the investigation by Kenneth Star himself.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 05-02-2009 at 02:04 AM.
  #121  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:04 AM
Equipoise's Avatar
Equipoise is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalhoun View Post
And this bitch had the nerve to say all this while Shepard's mother sat in the chamber? What the fuck kind of people DO that? What the fuck kind of brain damage are we talking about here?
For a little break from Starving Artist babbling on to himself about Clintonian conspiracy theories, Matthew Shepard's mother was on Rachel Maddow, responding to Congresswoman Foxx, who kinda sorta "apologized," saying she "misspoke."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist
The big lie propagated around here is that Bush, knowing full well that Hussein didn't have any WMD, lied and told the American people that he did and that going to war against Iraq was therefore justified and necessary.

To date I have seen no probative (i.e., proving) evidence that he knew or did any such thing,
Look up "Joe Wilson" (which, if you're the kind who follows links just to see where they will lead, will also lead you to "Valerie Plame" which makes for some crackin' interesting reading).
  #122  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:05 AM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
I knew a woman once whose philosophy, if caught red-handed at something she shouldn't be doing, was to deny, deny, deny...under the belief that blatant and continued denials whould eventually cause the accuser to doubt what they'd seen with their own eyes.

That won't work with me.

To wit, from William Safire in the New York Times: [bolding mine]

(1) Foster's body is discovered July 20. White House aides, unobserved, are in and out of his office that night and next day. His possession of the Whitewater file is kept secret. (2) On Thursday, July 22, White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum, with intimidated cops nearby, gives Foster's box of Whitewater files to Ms. Williams (not, as was long said, to the Clintons' lawyer). (3) After talking to Hillary Clinton, Ms. Williams locks the files in a closet in the third-floor family quarters of the White House, to which she had the only key. (4) Not until Tuesday, July 27, are the Whitewater files retrieved by the lawyer, then Robert Barnett.

So, a) Foster had files regarding Whitewater that had been kept secret. b) a box of Whitewater files was given to Williams. c) After consulting with Hillary Clinton, Williams, who had the only key, locked the box in a closet in the White House living quarters. d) The files were finally turned over to Barnett on July 27, a week after Foster's suicide.

Now a box of Whitewater files may be construed as nothing but thin air to you, but to me it's a box of Whitewater files.
You keep quoting this Safire column as though it's meaningful. Starr found no evidence that any of this occurred. Moreover, there was nothing damaging to the Clintons in any of those files anyway, so there was no motive to move them.

What was "strange" about Foster's death, by the way?

Last edited by Diogenes the Cynic; 05-02-2009 at 02:06 AM.
  #123  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:06 AM
Starving Artist is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 17,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
Uh uh. Just a simple question: Did Bush said that he was going to get a second UN resolution, no matter what? Did he told us the truth?
I don't know. I do know that it's quite possible that he simply changed his mind, and possibly changed it on the basis of some of the hundreds or thousands of pieces of information he was getting daily regarding developments in Iraq.

The difference between you and me is that because he's my guy I'm willing to see alternative explanations; and because he's not your guy you are perfectly content to jump to the most damaging conclusion and make accusations of lying when any number of other reasons may be the actual explanation.

But I'm not gonna quibble over all this all night; I'm in the middle of a very interesting book about William F. Buckley and would much prefer to be spending my time reading it.

So I'm out of here for now. I'm afraid you'll have to call yourselves idiots for the rest of the night.*


*Paraphrased from an insult by Debra Berone in Everybody Loves Raymond. No plagiarizer am I! No, siree!
  #124  
Old 05-02-2009, 02:27 AM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 28,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
I don't know. I do know that it's quite possible that he simply changed his mind, and possibly changed it on the basis of some of the hundreds or thousands of pieces of information he was getting daily regarding developments in Iraq.
By then the evidence was piling up that the "intelligence" was wrong regarding the locations of the WMD, the UN inspectors were finding nothing on the places the US and England told them to look.

So yes, he lied. He then lied to the American people by not seeking the second resolution because he knew he was going to lose.

Quote:
The difference between you and me is that because he's my guy I'm willing to see alternative explanations; and because he's not your guy you are perfectly content to jump to the most damaging conclusion and make accusations of lying when any number of other reasons may be the actual explanation.
The other explanation is that he was an incompetent fool, but even that does not exclude the other explanation.

Quote:
But I'm not gonna quibble over all this all night; I'm in the middle of a very interesting book about William F. Buckley and would much prefer to be spending my time reading it.

So I'm out of here for now. I'm afraid you'll have to call yourselves idiots for the rest of the night.*


*Paraphrased from an insult by Debra Berone in Everybody Loves Raymond. No plagiarizer am I! No, siree!
Meh, like if posts would disappear tomorrow.

You remain mostly an idiot in the ancient Greek sense, and even the son of Buckley decided to dismiss the Bush Followers, so keep up the good work on antagonizing even the reasonable conservatives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post

What was "strange" about Foster's death, by the way?
Please don't feed him.





Nah, Starving Artist is a great punching bag, it doesn't hurt one and he comes back for more punishment.
  #125  
Old 05-02-2009, 08:03 AM
ElvisL1ves is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 49,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
It was Kenneth Star's fishing expedition that found the dress
Scaife's, actually. He (well, the lawyers he gave Paula Jones) then dropped it in Starr's lap. Something about a midnight meeting at a Denny's in Maryland, IIRC.
  #126  
Old 05-02-2009, 09:18 AM
Steve MB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron York
On his 100th day in office, Barack Obama enjoys high job approval ratings, no matter what poll you consult. But if a new survey by the New York Times is accurate, the president and some of his policies are significantly less popular with white Americans than with black Americans, and his sky-high ratings among African-Americans make some of his positions appear a bit more popular overall than they actually are.
The pollster forgot that he was supposed to apply a 3/5 weighting factor to those responses.
  #127  
Old 05-02-2009, 09:27 AM
mswas is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Censored
Posts: 19,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Algher View Post
The continuation of that train of thought is that if she is not elected, not on the Federal payroll, and has not been confirmed by the Senate, she should not be in charge of anything.
She's not in charge of anything.
  #128  
Old 05-02-2009, 09:30 AM
Steve MB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
What was "strange" about Foster's death, by the way?
Please don't feed him.
Aww... I was hoping for a story of Foster's "strange" death that would make Rasputin look like a wimp.
  #129  
Old 05-02-2009, 09:39 AM
jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 37,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswas View Post
She's not in charge of anything.
Like any wife, she's in charge of her husband.
  #130  
Old 05-02-2009, 09:42 AM
Squink is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yes
Posts: 20,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve MB View Post
Aww... I was hoping for a story...
Karl Rove case witness killed in plane crash, sisters want answers
Quote:
Web guru was potential witness in Ohio voting fraud case

04/30/2009

Shannon Connell of Madison says her brother Michael rarely talked about work. She knew he ran an Ohio company called New Media Communications that set up websites for Republicans including former President George H.W. Bush and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush. But it wasn't until after he died last December, when the small plane he was piloting crashed, that she learned via the Internet of his tie to a voter fraud case and to allegations that presidential adviser Karl Rove had made threats against him.

"At first, it was really hard for me to believe Mike was dead because somebody wanted him dead," says Shannon, a buyer for a local children's resale shop. "But as time goes on, it's hard for me not to believe there was something deliberate about it."
  #131  
Old 05-02-2009, 10:07 AM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 35,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equipoise View Post
This dickhead having that name upsets me because Issa is the name of one of my favorite singers (formerly Jane Siberry)
[flashback]Hours and hours of my holiday being bored to tears by my cousin insisting we listen to Jane Siberry albums. Bleargh.[/flashback]
  #132  
Old 05-02-2009, 10:47 AM
Fish is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Olympia, Washington
Posts: 5,632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post
(1) Foster's body is discovered July 20. White House aides, unobserved, are in and out of his office that night and next day. His possession of the Whitewater file is kept secret. (2) On Thursday, July 22, White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum, with intimidated cops nearby, gives Foster's box of Whitewater files to Ms. Williams (not, as was long said, to the Clintons' lawyer). (3) After talking to Hillary Clinton, Ms. Williams locks the files in a closet in the third-floor family quarters of the White House, to which she had the only key. (4) Not until Tuesday, July 27, are the Whitewater files retrieved by the lawyer, then Robert Barnett.
1. Dead man has a box with files. One of the files relates to an ongoing case. Very impolitely, he does not tell anybody that he has this file.

2. Box is turned over to another person, who does not immediately insist that the dead man identify all files relating to investigation.

3. Files are locked away.

4. Someone goes through the files and finds the file.

Yes, very mysterious.
  #133  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Equipoise's Avatar
Equipoise is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by acsenray View Post
[flashback]Hours and hours of my holiday being bored to tears by my cousin insisting we listen to Jane Siberry albums. Bleargh.[/flashback]
Ah, you were just too young and mainstream-brained to appreciate her brilliance. Your cousin, on the other hand, had excellent taste.


Edit to add, I'm hearing *crickets* from the direction of Starving Artist regarding Joe Wilson. Why am I not surprised?

Last edited by Equipoise; 05-02-2009 at 12:01 PM.
  #134  
Old 05-02-2009, 12:07 PM
Really Not All That Bright is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 68,125
Those are locusts. Run!
  #135  
Old 05-02-2009, 12:42 PM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 35,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equipoise View Post
Ah, you were just too young and mainstream-brained to appreciate her brilliance.
Heh. Hardly.

Quote:
Your cousin, on the other hand, had excellent taste.
But now when we tease her about it, she's appropriately shamed.
  #136  
Old 05-02-2009, 09:54 PM
Equipoise's Avatar
Equipoise is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by acsenray View Post
Heh. Hardly.
Whether you know or realize it or not, Jane Siberry is a National Canadian Treasure. Celine, Ann, Bryan and other mainstream music makers get all the attention and the money, but Jane's music will be what musicians, musicologists and discerning music lovers will be praising (now and) in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acsenray View Post
But now when we tease her about it, she's appropriately shamed.
That's too bad. She got mainstreamed. She was right in the first place.
  #137  
Old 05-02-2009, 10:16 PM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 35,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equipoise View Post
Whether you know or realize it or not, Jane Siberry is a National Canadian Treasure..
Bless your heart.

Quote:
That's too bad. She got mainstreamed.
I'm going to try to avoid responding any further, because I'm starting to get offended by the equation of "disliking Jane Siberry" with "bland mainstreamer."
  #138  
Old 05-08-2009, 12:42 PM
Equipoise's Avatar
Equipoise is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 10,077

Stupid Republican Attack of the Day


President Obama's being attacked for his choice of condiments. Condiments! I realize that Hannity is already a total loonball, but now he's being joined by other loonballs in a full-blown case of Dijon Derangement Syndrome.

Does the base really need to be propped up this badly? OMG SOCIALIST!! WHO LIKES FANCY-PANTS MUSTARD!!

They're a laughingstock.

Last edited by Equipoise; 05-08-2009 at 12:43 PM.
  #139  
Old 05-08-2009, 12:55 PM
MovieMogul is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equipoise View Post
President Obama's being attacked for his choice of condiments. Condiments! I realize that Hannity is already a total loonball, but now he's being joined by other loonballs in a full-blown case of Dijon Derangement Syndrome.

Does the base really need to be propped up this badly? OMG SOCIALIST!! WHO LIKES FANCY-PANTS MUSTARD!!

They're a laughingstock.
What's reallly funny is that "Real Men" actually prefer mustard and Grey Poupon is the most powerful brand. So when you're thinking of traditional conservative values (including financial success and an Horatio Alger-style vision), you gotta go with the G.P.!
  #140  
Old 05-08-2009, 02:10 PM
Polycarp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: A better place to be
Posts: 26,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
1. Dead man has a box with files. One of the files relates to an ongoing case. Very impolitely, he does not tell anybody that he has this file.

2. Box is turned over to another person, who does not immediately insist that the dead man identify all files relating to investigation.

3. Files are locked away.

4. Someone goes through the files and finds the file.

Yes, very mysterious.
Well, given that most of the people who claim this do hear voices in their heads, it's not unreasonable of them to expect Vince Foster to alet people to that file!

What?
  #141  
Old 05-08-2009, 02:52 PM
Diogenes the Cynic is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 58,797
Ironically, Obama told a story in The Audacity of Hope about his handlers freaking out on the campaign trail once when he asked for dijon mustard at a TGIF. They told the waitress he was just kidding and tried to shove a bottle of French's at him. The waitress said it was no problem to get dijon, and Obama said he still wanted it. I guess you can't ever ask for fancy mustard if you're a Democratic politician.

Hannity, by the way, is a guy who refuses to fly anywhere for a public appearance unless he's provided a private jet.
  #142  
Old 05-08-2009, 03:42 PM
DaphneBlack is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,596
What the fuck? Dijon mustard is elitist? I don't fucking get it. It's not exactly a 400 dollar haircut.
  #143  
Old 05-08-2009, 03:45 PM
jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 37,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaphneBlack View Post
What the fuck? Dijon mustard is elitist? I don't fucking get it. It's not exactly a 400 dollar haircut.
Not to mention that it's Grey Poupon, which is like the Cheetos of dijon mustards.
  #144  
Old 05-08-2009, 03:47 PM
Merijeek is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,133
Wait, so am I better than other people because I eat Dijon, or do I just THINK I am better than other people because of it?

-Joe
  #145  
Old 05-08-2009, 07:00 PM
BrightNShiny is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,676
I don't feel like starting a new thread, but apparently CBS golf analyst David Feherty decided to slur our military by claiming: "if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death." See here for Media Matters link.

Seriously, WTF? Why would anyone in the public eye think it is acceptable to accuse our military of being traitors?
  #146  
Old 05-08-2009, 07:47 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightNShiny View Post
I don't feel like starting a new thread, but apparently CBS golf analyst David Feherty decided to slur our military by claiming: "if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death." See here for Media Matters link.

Seriously, WTF? Why would anyone in the public eye think it is acceptable to accuse our military of being traitors?
I don't believe that was the intent. I believe the actual intent was something like, "Patriotic Americans want to kill Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for the manner in whch they've protrayed the war and the military to the American people." Plus, "After bin Laden, they are America's two biggest enemies."

Equally disgusting, in a different way.
  #147  
Old 05-08-2009, 07:54 PM
elucidator is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Further
Posts: 59,883
Clearly, golf commentators have gone lamentably downhill ever since the dirty hippies took over golf.
  #148  
Old 05-08-2009, 07:58 PM
BrightNShiny is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyo Jim View Post
I don't believe that was the intent. I believe the actual intent was something like, "Patriotic Americans want to kill Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for the manner in whch they've protrayed the war and the military to the American people." Plus, "After bin Laden, they are America's two biggest enemies."

Equally disgusting, in a different way.
I think it's time we start calling things for what they are. Anyone who killed the heads of our two legislative bodies would be a traitor, not a patriot, and we need to point out what is the logical conclusion of the statement. He is claiming that our military would behave in a traitorous fashion.
  #149  
Old 05-08-2009, 07:58 PM
Muffin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great White North
Posts: 20,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equipoise View Post
Why are Republicans so eager to look so fucking stupid?
I don't know if we'll ever have an answer to that 'nature or nurture' debate, but as a liberal, I think it important to support Republicans' rights to marry and raise families.

Last edited by Muffin; 05-08-2009 at 07:59 PM.
  #150  
Old 05-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightNShiny View Post
I think it's time we start calling things for what they are. Anyone who killed the heads of our two legislative bodies would be a traitor, not a patriot, and we need to point out what is the logical conclusion of the statement. He is claiming that our military would behave in a traitorous fashion.
I agree in absolute terms with what you say. But I don't think HE means that. I think Feherty thinks that Pelosi and Reid are the traitors, and real patriots want to kill them.

Which I believe is a traitorous sentiment, but not far off what what some wingnut suggested about Obama back during the campaign. Wasn't there somebody in Congress who said something of the lines of, "He better not come down here..."? I can't recall who or the details, but it was close to an implied death threat.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017