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  #51  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmut Doork View Post
My point exactly, but the opposite- most people on this board now will never think she did, even if it turns out she did, because it first came to them via a poster whose politics or whatever they don't agree with- the entire point of the OP- facts are facts, regardless who states them first.
Please summarize the evidence for us. Or drop this nonsense. It's up to you. Telling us "Well, if the facts were just the opposite of what they are, then you'd be wrong and I'd be right!" is not the strongest argument you can make.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 06-24-2019 at 02:34 PM.
  #52  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:34 PM
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Most people on this board are most people in real life- same ones if polled would still tell you Gary Condit MUST be guilty, even though facts prove he wasn't.
Whoa, there's a blast from the past! Maybe we can throw up a poll about the Lindbergh baby while we're at it.
  #53  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
Please summarize the evidence for us. Or drop this nonsense. It's up to you. Telling us "Well, if the facts were just the opposite of what they are, then you'd be wrong and I'd be right!" is not the strongest argument you can make.
Well, it's not the strongest argument that can be make.

It remains to be seen if it's the strongest argument Helmut Doork is capable of.
  #54  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:36 PM
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So we have confirmation of the fact that everyone already knew that there were some paperwork problems with her marriage, and we have a repetition of the rumor that she was married to her brother, with the same complete and utter lack of any evidence whatsoever that we had when the rumor first surfaced.

What's the story, here?
The article does introduce at least one item of evidence. Apparently the former husband / maybe-brother posted a picture of a baby the day after Omar gave birth and wrote, "Nieces". Though, that would seem to make it more likely that he's her uncle rather than that he's her brother, unless we assume that the final 's' was a complete typo. Since she's 3 years older than him, that doesn't seem super likely, but I'm sure that it could happen.

From the Washington Examiner, it also appears to be fairly easy to prove that she never actually separated from the man who is (purportedly and probably) the father of all of her children and who is currently her legal husband.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...-to-ahmed-elmi

The general indication would seem to be that she did falsely marry Elmi for immigration purposes. And I wouldn't imagine any good reason for someone to do that unless they were family or there was a decent sum of money on offer.

With the baby photo, the balance of probability would be that Elmi is family of some kind, either a very young uncle or a brother who has been told to call himself her uncle to avoid invalidating their immigration documents.

Possibly, he's a lost brother that they thought died?

Last edited by Sage Rat; 06-24-2019 at 02:38 PM.
  #55  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:36 PM
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You haven't offered "some reasonable belief this may have really happened". Neither does the article you linked to. It refers to a baseless conspiracy theory and that's all. That's not "some reasonable belief".
Note, I have no idea if the below person is a respected journalist or certified nutjob, but found this. Apparently it could all be easily solved by Omar producing proof of existence of the missing individual.

Obama's birth was questioned, he proved it. Should be simple here.

https://pjmedia.com/davidsteinberg/o...d-her-brother/
  #56  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:38 PM
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Whoa, there's a blast from the past! Maybe we can throw up a poll about the Lindbergh baby while we're at it.
You could, actually- human psychology is the same as back then- what we were told, who told us, etc. all that forms opinions that hold up, even if refuted by facts.
  #57  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:41 PM
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Please summarize the evidence for us. Or drop this nonsense. It's up to you. Telling us "Well, if the facts were just the opposite of what they are, then you'd be wrong and I'd be right!" is not the strongest argument you can make.
Not saying its true, and clearly saying I don't care, either way, and again, not the point of the OP.

Point is same facts used in the original SMDB thread are presented by the MST now, and no one is accusing them of baseless nonsense trolling.
  #58  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:42 PM
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I have no idea if the below person is a respected journalist or certified nutjob ... it could all be easily solved by Omar producing proof ...

Obama's birth was questioned, he proved it. Should be simple here.
What makes you think the burden of proof is on the slandered?

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Originally Posted by Helmut Doork View Post
same facts used in the original SMDB thread are presented by the MST now, and no one is accusing them of baseless nonsense trolling.
Already been explained to you - the MST is reporting that there is a conspiracy theory afoot. They present no more evidence than you do of its being true - and can you guess why?

What do you think the papers were actually reporting when they reported that Trump (and others) were accusing Obama of not being an American?

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 06-24-2019 at 02:45 PM.
  #59  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:43 PM
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Point is same facts used in the original SMDB thread are presented by the MST now, and no one is accusing them of baseless nonsense trolling.
Shodan wasn't moderated for presenting "facts", and the MST isn't trolling because mentioning the existence of a conspiracy theory isn't trolling.
  #60  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmut Doork View Post
Note, I have no idea if the below person is a respected journalist or certified nutjob, but found this. Apparently it could all be easily solved by Omar producing proof of existence of the missing individual.

Obama's birth was questioned, he proved it. Should be simple here.

https://pjmedia.com/davidsteinberg/o...d-her-brother/
As far as I can tell from reading the entire thing, that article by bottom-barrel site PJ Media doesn't actually offer any evidence that Omar married her brother. Just a series of odd sort of insinuations.
  #61  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:53 PM
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The moderator clearly implied the thread was closed because it had to be trolling, the proof being the bit about her brother.

The moderator apparently did not know that was the whole point of the thread, and that there is actually some reasonable belief this may have really happened for legal reasons.

So it was closed because a person seeming not knowing the facts, and not bothering to read, saw "married her brother", assumed it was a standard insult and closed it.
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Shodan wasn't moderated for presenting "facts", and the MST isn't trolling because mentioning the existence of a conspiracy theory isn't trolling.
[Moderating]
If anyone has an issue with the moderation on this board, the proper forum to debate it is ATMB, not the BBQ Pit. This thread is fine for discussing the reactions of posters to the thread in question. If it turns into a discussion about the appropriateness of the moderation, I will close this thread.
[/Moderating]
  #62  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:53 PM
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Not sure if this would be considered "talking about moderation" and posted at the same time as the note.

Last edited by manson1972; 06-24-2019 at 02:54 PM.
  #63  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:53 PM
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Point is same facts used in the original SMDB thread are presented by the MST now, and no one is accusing them of baseless nonsense trolling.
Would it make you feel better if I did?

Because they're fucking trolls, the lot of them.

They are repeating unfounded accusations because it gets them attention. These are the same motherfuckers who kept repeating over and over the baseless accusations of Obama's birth certificate, who implied Condit murdered Levy, and who will latch onto the next high profile scandal like a crocodile going for the kill.
  #64  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:54 PM
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As far as I can tell from reading the entire thing, that article by bottom-barrel site PJ Media doesn't actually offer any evidence that Omar married her brother. Just a series of odd sort of insinuations.
It does offer, which is not debatable, that for what she says to be true, there is a person out there who she knows, who is completely missing from the planet, and no death certificate. Producing him would end this for most thinking persons. Is it possible in this age for investigative reporters to find no trace of such as a person if they exist?

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 06-24-2019 at 02:56 PM.
  #65  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:56 PM
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It does offer, which is not debatable, that for what she says to be true, there is a person out there who she knows, who is completely missing from the planet. Producing him would end this for most thinking persons.
I'm not sure what you're referring to (you're not big on actually quoting what you're referring to, are you), but the fact that no evidence has been presented for this ends this "for most thinking persons".

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 06-24-2019 at 02:57 PM.
  #66  
Old 06-24-2019, 02:57 PM
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Producing him would end this for most thinking persons.
Nah, we good.
  #67  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:01 PM
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I tbink the OP should apologize for not realizing that brother is immediate family relationship just as husband is. And the OP should also apologize for weak trolling.
  #68  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:10 PM
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I tbink the OP should apologize for not realizing that brother is immediate family relationship just as husband is. And the OP should also apologize for weak trolling.
In retrospect a poorly titled OP which has people focusing on the 'you owe an apology' part. Not my intent, as it takes away from the base message, which remains same now as then. Perhaps should have titled "Is the Omar story proof we process identical information differently based on our personal opinion of the source?"
  #69  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:14 PM
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Obama's birth was questioned, he proved it.
Remember how that settled the matter decisively, and how everyone who had been baselessly accusing him of being born in a foreign country apologized for questioning his legitimacy to hold office? Me neither. Nor does Omar, I suspect.
  #70  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:22 PM
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Not my intent, as it takes away from the base message, which remains same now as then.
That's a pity.
  #71  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:22 PM
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I'm holding any further fire in this thread until I can determine if Helmut Doork is a sock, a runaway Freeper, or a Russian mail order bride enthusiast.
  #72  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:29 PM
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Remember how that settled the matter decisively, and how everyone who had been baselessly accusing him of being born in a foreign country apologized for questioning his legitimacy to hold office? Me neither. Nor does Omar, I suspect.
Are Trump's guys still in Hawaii looking for the proof?
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  #73  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:34 PM
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Most people on this board are most people in real life- same ones if polled would still tell you Gary Condit MUST be guilty, even though facts prove he wasn't.
Seriously? This is what you bring to the table? a nearly 20 year old incident that most people didn't follow that closely when it was happening?

What's your fucking point, dude? Do you have facts, or just outrage?
  #74  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:42 PM
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I really hate the school vacation season in the US. Way too many bigots post asinine trolling nonsense here during that time.
  #75  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:48 PM
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Looking through the zone that others of the forum fear to tread, principally the sites PJMedia and Alpha News, there's one note that Omar's dad goes by the name "Nur Said" on his Facebook page.

Assuming that this is in fact him, then that does seem to be true:

https://www.facebook.com/nur.said.3386

One of the people who liked his photo is Ahmed Hirsi, who is clearly Omar's husband:

https://www.facebook.com/SouthsideHirsi

All official information about Omar's dad says that his name is Nur Omar Mohamed but the indications are good that his name is also Nur Said Elmi Mohamed. It's unclear to me why he would have both names, and I can't independently corroborate that it's true beyond the name he gives on Facebook, but it seems relatively plausible.

Purportedly, they contacted an Elmi who lives in London and he wrote back confirming that an Instagram account was his but denying that he was the Elmi who married Omar and denying that he knew Omar, though confirming that it was him in a photo with Omar from some time ago (a photo in Omar's instagram feed), but that he didn't know who she was. He further said that his birthday is May 18th, 1985.

https://alphanewsmn.com/brother-ilha...ed-send-email/

PJ Media notes that he posted photos of himself in the hospital where you can see his birthday on his wrist:

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-securit...leged-brother/

I can't confirm, as there's no photo for that day on his feed at the moment. There is a photo from a few days earlier, where he posts some art that was done by a niece, which shows a face very similar to Omar's:

https://www.instagram.com/ahmednelmi/

To be fair, that could just be a picture of a girl/woman with "Somali" facial features. More notable is that he does seem to be interested in "nieces".
  #76  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:56 PM
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Are Trump's guys still in Hawaii looking for the proof?
Did Trump even send investigators? It's the HuffPost (2016), but:

There’s Still No Evidence That Trump Sent Investigators To Hawaii To Dig Up Dirt On Obama

Quote:
During the height of Donald Trump’s relentless birtherism in 2011, the reality TV star claimed he had personally sent investigators to Hawaii to uncover information about President Barack Obama’s birthplace and boasted that they couldn’t “believe what they’re finding.”

But there’s no proof he ever did that.

...

When ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos asked him about the investigators later that month, Trump refused to say what they had found.

“It’s none of your business right now,” he said. “We are going to see what happens.”

CNN’s Anderson Cooper also confronted him about the investigation that month.

“Can you name even one person who your investigators have talked to?” Cooper asked.

“I don’t want to do that right now,” Trump said. “It’s not appropriate right now.”
I'm so disappointed that Trump would tell an "un-truth". SAD!!!

On the other hand, if there never were any investigators, Trump is actually correct that I wouldn't "believe what they're finding".
  #77  
Old 06-24-2019, 03:57 PM
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I meant this picture: https://www.instagram.com/p/cE9vFSLj8q/
  #78  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:02 PM
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I really hate the school vacation season in the US. Way too many bigots post asinine trolling nonsense here during that time.
If you are referring to me, but are not naming me because you are too superior or whatever the logic, if you want to lower yourself to respond directly to a post of mine, would be glad to see where you find bigotry?

Did you read the OP where I made it quite clear I don't give a fig about Rep. Omar, my point was to expose personal hypocrisy?
  #79  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:11 PM
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I can't corroborate most of the information that PJ Media and Alpha News have given, but even the names of the people who "liked" the photos in the screen caps check out. The spacing all looks good. The different way that people write comments all looks good. If they falsified all of this, then they're pretty amazing at falsifying stuff.

Some parts of the evidence stream, like school records, seem a little suspect. There's no photos of the records and I don't know that that sort of thing is publicly available?

But it does feel like some images were scrubbed by the family and their friends and that some form of secret is being covered up so, while I wouldn't call the existing evidence conclusive, the coverup does make me feel like it's probably correct or near to correct.

Personal guess: He's a brother who somehow got sent to England when the rest of the family went to the UK. Maybe dad had two wives? But yeah, she likely married him for the purpose of getting him into the US for college. In the end, he decided to go back to England rather than stay here and he didn't want to have to find work, after graduating, just so he could stay in the country long enough to formalize the divorce.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 06-24-2019 at 04:11 PM.
  #80  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:13 PM
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my point was to expose personal hypocrisy?
You have failed utterly.
  #81  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:14 PM
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You have failed utterly.

It would take personal introspection, and a desire and ability to do so, yes, so not surprising.
  #82  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:20 PM
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It would take personal introspection, and a desire and ability to do so, yes, so not surprising.
See? Resorting to ad hominem attacks means just one thing: failing is giving way to flailing.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-24-2019 at 04:21 PM.
  #83  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:28 PM
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See? Resorting to ad hominem attacks means just one thing: failing is giving way to flailing.
Like this entire thread pretty much? An OP possibly impugns the character of a person apparently beloved by the board, so we will ignore facts, wont read the thread, wont read the linked articles, wont comment on the two or three sensible, thought out posts that support the OP, just call the person a racist troll and there, I don't have to think or do any self analysis? The mass psychology here is often rather frightening.
  #84  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:45 PM
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Like this entire thread pretty much? An OP possibly impugns the character of a person apparently beloved by the board, so we will ignore facts, wont read the thread, wont read the linked articles, wont comment on the two or three sensible, thought out posts that support the OP, just call the person a racist troll and there, I don't have to think or do any self analysis? The mass psychology here is often rather frightening.
Holy fuck: you're delusional. I don't know who the fuck you think you're talking to or what the fuck you think I wrote, but that isn't it.

And you don't have any new facts, as evidenced by your link and your subsequent posts in this thread. So it seems all you have is outrage.

U mad bro?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-24-2019 at 04:45 PM.
  #85  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:52 PM
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And you don't have any new facts, as evidenced by your link and your subsequent posts in this thread. So it seems all you have is outrage.

U mad bro?
Actually no, not angry at all, where do you see a single post with a trace of anger? No personal insults or swears in my posts.

As for new facts, the article in the OP that starts off "New facts in the..." has the new facts. But since most here didn't read the old ones, those would be new as well.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:56 PM
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Highly speculative, but just for the ability to claim "called it", I'll mention "qudbo siro" and make a note that I'm doubtful that "teacher of teachers" would be the most reasonable description of Omar's dad's job before the Somali Civil War.
  #87  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:59 PM
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Actually no, not angry at all, where do you see a single post with a trace of anger? No personal insults or swears in my posts.
Oh, okay: you're a delusional liar. Got it. Good luck with that.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:13 PM
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..As for new facts, the article in the OP that starts off "New facts in the..." has the new facts. But since most here didn't read the old ones, those would be new as well.
What are the new facts? You've been asked repeatedly.
  #89  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:15 PM
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Post #75 by another member gives all the juicy deets, and #79

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 06-24-2019 at 05:20 PM.
  #90  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:19 PM
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Obama's birth was questioned, he proved it. Should be simple here.
As recently as 2016, polls showed that 2/3rds of republicans either didn't believe or weren't sure that Obama was a US citizen, and all of them voted for the guy who got famous spreading that bullshit, so a fat lot of good that did.

No, you don't give this story oxygen. Shame on you for this thread. Shame on you for spreading bullshit propaganda. Like, here's your next link:

Here's some other headlines from this stellar bastion of reporting:

"America Elected a Black President; We Don't Need Reparations"

"Media Attacks Should Be a Signal to Trump: Focus on Flawed Climate Science"

"How Secret Algorithms Are Crushing Conservative Media"

"Why Are There So Many Homeless in Los Angeles?" (spoiler: because hippies and liberals and drugs)

But please, go right ahead and continue this shitshow of a thread.

Actually, maybe don't, you slimy piece of shit.
  #91  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:24 PM
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Post #75 by another member gives all the juicy deets
Those aren't from the article you linked, you fucking dingbat. NM, happy trolling.
  #92  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:30 PM
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Those aren't from the article you linked, you fucking dingbat. NM, happy trolling.
Post #75 and #79 summarize the new info, which may or may not be contained in the entirety of each of the four articles I linked, you are correct.

I shouldn't expect to have to spoonfeed info to people responding to this, I would expect anyone with enough desire to comment would already know the basics. If you are coming in blind because the pit is a chance to show you anger and wit, I'm not doing your work for you.

I wouldn't go to a thread on 17th century metallurgy and expect someone to explain all of the common terms in detail to me, just so I can comment. If the thread isn't something you know about, there are others.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:31 PM
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...true story: Ilhan Omar has a secret agenda to use her status to implement Sharia Law.

Cite.

Oh sorry, I meant Shakira law.

(Joke shamelessly stolen from here.)
  #94  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:35 PM
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Shame on you for spreading bullshit propaganda. Like, here's your next link:

Here's some other headlines from this stellar bastion of reporting:

"America Elected a Black President; We Don't Need Reparations"

"Media Attacks Should Be a Signal to Trump: Focus on Flawed Climate Science"

"How Secret Algorithms Are Crushing Conservative Media"

"Why Are There So Many Homeless in Los Angeles?" (spoiler: because hippies and liberals and drugs)
1) I could write a factual and well-sourced article with any one of those headings. This isn't to say that those articles would present a full and nuanced view of the topics or couldn't be rebutted with factual and well-sourced articles that made a better total argument, but there is a difference between "lies" and "incomplete".

2) You should note that libel is a crime. Any journalistic source that has existed for more than a couple of years will, almost certainly, only ever contain facts in their news articles. If they didn't they'd have already been sued out of existence.

3) Something that is true is true regardless of whether it's surrounded by lies. To be sure, an honest news source is better, but if a liar gives you some information that you can check and it checks out then...well it checked out. It's true. Everything else...well that still might be lies. But things that prove are true regardless of who told you about them.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 06-24-2019 at 05:36 PM.
  #95  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:37 PM
Helmut Doork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Here's some other headlines from this stellar bastion of reporting:

"America Elected a Black President; We Don't Need Reparations"

"Media Attacks Should Be a Signal to Trump: Focus on Flawed Climate Science"

"How Secret Algorithms Are Crushing Conservative Media"

"Why Are There So Many Homeless in Los Angeles?" (spoiler: because hippies and liberals and drugs)

But please, go right ahead and continue this shitshow of a thread.

Actually, maybe don't, you slimy piece of shit.
Oh my stars!

If you had read the thread, you would know I made it crystal clear to all when I linked that fourth cite I clearly said I was doing so only for those requesting further info, and that I did not know squat about the writer, site, site politics, and apologized in advance if it was a hate site or anything like it.

Not to mention that none of those four headlines are really that offensive? Most posters here agreed reparations are not in order now, and the others aren't race based? Am I missing something?

So ignore that one, and read the one in the OP from a major liberal newspaper, it contains the exact same basic info.

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 06-24-2019 at 05:39 PM.
  #96  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmut Doork View Post
Post #75 and #79 summarize the new info...
Yeah, I see Sage Rat doing the work you were unwilling or unable to do yourself. So, no new facts, just a bunch of speculation and conjecture from partisan and unreliable sources. Well done.

You got nothing. Bonus points for white-knighting a troll, though. And good luck with your brave and noble war on hypocrisy. I'm sure you'll knock that one out of the park too.
  #97  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:47 PM
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Helmut Doork, suppose someone started a rumor that you married your brother. That would be totally reasonable, right? Because after all, we have no proof whatsoever that you didn't. And then suppose that, after that, someone else said "Hey, there's a rumor going around that Helmut Doork married his brother". Still reasonable, right?
  #98  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Helmut Doork, suppose someone started a rumor that you married your brother. That would be totally reasonable, right? Because after all, we have no proof whatsoever that you didn't. And then suppose that, after that, someone else said "Hey, there's a rumor going around that Helmut Doork married his brother". Still reasonable, right?
Do you think the Minnesota Star Tribune would be involved if there were absolutely nothing there? News media slander is a huge issue, hundreds of large payouts, the MST says fuck that, we are running an absurd piece with zero evidence, zero credibility against a fellow liberal?


Quote: Immediately after being elected to her current seat in 2016, Omar faced allegations — soon backed by a remarkable amount of evidence — that she had married her own brother in 2009, and was still legally his wife. They officially divorced in December 2017.

The motivation for the marriage remains unclear. However, the totality of the evidence points to possible immigration fraud and student loan fraud.

Rep. Omar has stated that she did marry “British citizen” Ahmed Nur Said Elmi in 2009, though the allegation that he is her brother is “absurd and offensive.”

…exclusive new evidence — from official archived high school records and corroborating sources — strongly supports the claim that Ahmed Nur Said Elmi is indeed her brother.

Reporters and commentators have speculated that the marriage involved immigration fraud and have urged the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) to investigate the matter.

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 06-24-2019 at 05:57 PM.
  #99  
Old 06-24-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Blank Slate View Post
Yeah, I see Sage Rat doing the work you were unwilling or unable to do yourself. So, no new facts, just a bunch of speculation and conjecture from partisan and unreliable sources.

In the case of the MST, partisan on *her* side, I think is the big flag here? And you have no personal way of knowing if the sources are reliable or not. If Brietbart was the source, it would not be given a second thought- MST changes things.
  #100  
Old 06-24-2019, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmut Doork View Post
Do you think the Minnesota Star Tribune would be involved if there were absolutely nothing there? News media slander is a huge issue, hundreds of large payouts, the MST says fuck that, we are running an absurd piece with zero evidence, zero credibility against a fellow liberal?
Oops, wrong again. In 2014, the Star Tribune was bought by former republican state senator Glen Taylor. From the wiki:

Quote:
In 2014, he purchased the Star Tribune for about $100 million. He told MinnPost that the famously liberal Star Tribune would be decidedly less liberal under his watch, but noted that the paper had already been shifting more to the center in recent years.
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