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Old 06-25-2019, 08:56 AM
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The Trump Outrages Come Thick and Fast


Just in the past few days:

1) We've gotten detailed reports about the horrors of the Trump Adminstration's kiddie concentration camps.

2) The decision about whether or not to commit an act of war against Iran apparently came down to random thoughts in Trump's head. (Before that, whether or not to militarily intervene in Venezuela's internal affairs apparently was decided by Trump's getting bored with it.)

3) The Oregon GOP cheered on an armed militia's intimidation of Democratic state legislators, and got no pushback from the national GOP.

4) And a respected columnist described how Trump raped her in a department store dressing room back in the 1990s, adding one more name to the long list of women who've gone on record to accuse Trump of sexually assaulting them.

This is not normal, needless to say. But when so many Trump/GOP outrages pile on top of one another, there's hardly any way to mobilize about any single one, and the succession of outrages in effect defines the new normal.

How the fuck do we deal with this shit, given how fast it comes at us?
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:31 AM
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How the fuck do we deal with this shit, given how fast it comes at us? 1
I think we have to record it all, possibly by knitting it into an inconspicuous scarf or something, for later reference and tumbrel-filling.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:32 AM
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That the rape allegation isn't front page news is just another demonstration that we, as a country, don't really care that much about sexual assault and rape. Maybe a bit more than we did 5 years ago, but still very far from where we should be.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:39 AM
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I think we have to record it all, possibly by knitting it into an inconspicuous scarf or something, for later reference and tumbrel-filling.
...then put the pattern up on Ravelry? I hear they're cool with that.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:50 AM
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I think we have to record it all,
This.

And particularly who else is involved. At book signings, at restaurants, in the old folks home. This is their legacy.

Last edited by Sitnam; 06-25-2019 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:53 AM
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I think we have to record it all
Yes, to help future historians studying the Time of Madness. And to help answer descendant generations who wonder what the hell was wrong with their ancestors.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:54 AM
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4) And a respected columnist described how Trump raped her in a department store dressing room back in the 1990s, adding one more name to the long list of women who've gone on record to accuse Trump of sexually assaulting them.
Fake news, she wasn't even his type.

I...I got nothing to add after that.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:04 AM
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Any decent president, or person for that matter, in a professional position I'd expect when faced with a rape allegation to respond with something like "I don't know anything about this. I would like to get to the bottom of it as quickly as possible to resolve the situation and clear my name."
Instead he responds with "I don't even know who that is! She isn't even my type!"
What kind of sleazy immature response is that?
His knee jerk response is an immediate denial by feigned ignorance followed up by an insult of the accuser.
But apparently his admirers love it. "Hurrah! How refreshing! He talks just like me! An imbecile!"
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:17 AM
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That the rape allegation isn't front page news is just another demonstration that we, as a country, don't really care that much about sexual assault and rape. Maybe a bit more than we did 5 years ago, but still very far from where we should be.
I've been surprised that the concentration camps aren't the top story.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:21 AM
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Fake news, she wasn't even his type.

I...I got nothing to add after that.
And as some asked - does that mean he would rape those who are his type?
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:28 AM
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"His type" seems to be the ones who don't resist.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:32 AM
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If you look at E Jean Carroll's Wikipedia page there's a picture of her from 2006, so approximately 10 years older than when she claims the assault happened

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll

Frankly, she's very attractive and has that "New York" look that Trump seems to like. I hate to accuse Trump of lying*, but I think she's definitely his type and I believe every word she says about the encounter

* I love to accuse Trump of lying
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:53 AM
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That orange swine lies every time he takes a breath.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:12 PM
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That the rape allegation isn't front page news is just another demonstration that we, as a country, don't really care that much about sexual assault and rape. Maybe a bit more than we did 5 years ago, but still very far from where we should be.
Well, years ago the Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for lying about a consensual affair and obstruction of justice. How long did that dominate the news? Now, we have Trump almost certainly lying about this (and many more, and also bragging about assaulting women) and we get crickets. Plus, all the actual obstruction of justice by Trump and his cronies makes Clinton's seem like Little League.

Makes you wonder, that if Mueller had had Starr's scope of authority to go after anything he wanted to, what he would have found. The Mueller Report probably would have filled a large bookcase.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:13 PM
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That orange swine lies every time he takes a breath.
Aw, c'mon! Not every time; he's got to snarf down those quarter-pounders once in a while, ya know.

Or does, "Nom," count as a lie?

Last edited by DesertDog; 06-25-2019 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Had to add a quote after being ninja'd by dasmoocher
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:38 PM
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"Nom" means "This is good!", so, yes.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:40 PM
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Well, years ago the Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for lying about a consensual affair and obstruction of justice. How long did that dominate the news? Now, we have Trump almost certainly lying about this (and many more, and also bragging about assaulting women) and we get crickets. Plus, all the actual obstruction of justice by Trump and his cronies makes Clinton's seem like Little League.
Of course... IOKIARDI.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:07 PM
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Fake news, she wasn't even his type.

I...I got nothing to add after that.
Knowing nothing about this other than the linked story: they seem to be - at most - acquaintances; they bump into each other in a store; he was buying lingerie for another woman, and asked her to model it; he attacked her in the changing room.

OK - I am NOT blaming the victim. It is WRONG to physically assault a woman who agrees to model lingerie with you, even if the 2 of you go into the changing rooms together. But where in the world do scenarios like this occur outside of cheesy porn movies?
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:00 PM
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Knowing nothing about this other than the linked story: they seem to be - at most - acquaintances; they bump into each other in a store; he was buying lingerie for another woman, and asked her to model it; he attacked her in the changing room.

OK - I am NOT blaming the victim. It is WRONG to physically assault a woman who agrees to model lingerie with you, even if the 2 of you go into the changing rooms together. But where in the world do scenarios like this occur outside of cheesy porn movies?
The article I read said he ďjokinglyĒ asked her to model it. She joked right back at him that he should. Itís not a foregone conclusion that she modeled anything for him.

How they both ended up in the dressing room wasnít spelled out, but itís possible she found something that she want to try on before purchasing for herself and Trump invited himself into the stall with her.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:13 PM
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The article I read said he ďjokinglyĒ asked her to model it. She joked right back at him that he should. Itís not a foregone conclusion that she modeled anything for him.

How they both ended up in the dressing room wasnít spelled out, but itís possible she found something that she want to try on before purchasing for herself and Trump invited himself into the stall with her.
Not quite. She spoke quite frankly about it in two interviews. According to E. Jean, they joked about who should put it on. There was an open dressing room nearby. Trump jestured to it. She walked in. He followed her in. He shut the door behind them and immediately attacked her, slamming her against the wall and sexually assaulting her.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:16 PM
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Trump: Aw, I was only poking at her in fun!
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:17 PM
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Not quite. She spoke quite frankly about it in two interviews. According to E. Jean, they joked about who should put it on. There was an open dressing room nearby. Trump jestured to it. She walked in. He followed her in. He shut the door behind them and immediately attacked her, slamming her against the wall and sexually assaulting her.
Thanks; I guess I need to watch the interviews.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:19 PM
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OK - like I said, I know NOTHING about this other than the one article linked above.
Personally, this does nothing to change my opinion of Trump.
Not sure whose opinion it would change - unless someone might consider it the final straw...

Sure suggests some people conduct themselves quite differently than I ever considered myself.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:21 PM
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The one with Anderson Cooper contains the details I summarized.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:25 PM
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"His type" seems to be the ones who don't resist.
Or ones who can be paid.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:29 PM
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3) The Oregon GOP cheered on an armed militia's intimidation of Democratic state legislators, and got no pushback from the national GOP.
When it comes to the point that a state is being run by a minority, with the backing of an armed GOP militia threatening the State House so that it's permanently shut down....

Is anyone going to stand up AT THAT POINT and say anything?

Or is everyone just going to act like the frog in the slowly heating water, and just shrug and say "Whelp, nothing we can do about this. Maybe the militia will allow free and honest elections at some point in the future. We hope"
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:29 PM
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"His type" seems to be the ones who don't resist.
Know that for sure? I'm wondering how many bodies there are, and if Cohen remembers where they ended up. Facetiously. I wonder that facetiously. But I never wondered that, in any way, about any other American president. Not even that sneaky bastard Ford.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:00 PM
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Know that for sure? I'm wondering how many bodies there are, and if Cohen remembers where they ended up. Facetiously. I wonder that facetiously. But I never wondered that, in any way, about any other American president. Not even that sneaky bastard Ford.
How about this:

Trump's "types" (not mutually exclusive)

1. Those who don't resist
2. Those who will accept payment
3. Those who can be intimidated into silence/paid off afterwards
4. Those who look like his daughter
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:08 PM
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Well, HERE'S a Fine piece of news:

Over 100 Migrant Kids Moved Back To Border Facility Where Mistreatment Reported

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HOUSTON (AP) — U.S. government officials say they’ve moved more than 100 kids back to a remote border facility where lawyers reported detained children were caring for each other and had inadequate food, water, and sanitation.

An official from U.S. Customs and Border Protection said Tuesday that the “majority” of the roughly 300 children detained at Clint, Texas, last week have been placed in facilities operated by the Office of Refugee Resettlement.

The official, who briefed reporters on the condition of anonymity, wouldn’t say exactly how many children are currently detained there. But the official says Clint is better equipped than some of the Border Patrol’s tents to hold children.

Attorneys involved in monitoring care for migrant children who visited Clint last week said older children were trying to take care of toddlers, The Associated Press reported Thursday.

They described a 4-year-old with matted hair who had gone without a shower for days, and hungry, inconsolable children struggling to soothe one another.

Some had been locked for three weeks inside the facility, where 15 children were sick with the flu and another 10 were in medical quarantine.

Many children interviewed had arrived alone at the U.S.-Mexico border, but some had been separated from their parents or other adult caregivers including aunts and uncles, the attorneys said.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/migra...b0a394186955ed
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:13 PM
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Regarding the accusations of rape and your chosen thread title....

I see what you did there.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:20 PM
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The facilities (what some have called concentration camps) that hold undocumented immigrants are deplorable and the idea that kids are in those places saddens me and pisses me off.

That said, those places were established in the Obama era. Not that it excuses anything but when you’re showing outrage against the current administration it’s best to know the facts.

It’s shameful that things haven’t improved though and the president’s public comments have never shown me that he has any real sympathy for the kids suffering. And the policy of separating kids from parents is his policy, despite his lies to the contrary.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:29 PM
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That said, those places were established in the Obama era.
Not entirely accurate. Yes, there were detention facilities under Bush and Obama. But families who were detained were allowed to stay together. They might be separated if child trafficking were suspected, but there was nowhere near Trump's zero-tolerance policy of separating children from their families as a terror tactic.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:32 PM
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Just in the past few days:

1) We've gotten detailed reports about the horrors of the Trump Adminstration's kiddie concentration camps.
Don't you mean Kiddie Koncentration Kamps? You make it sound so unsummer camp-like...
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:34 PM
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The facilities (what some have called concentration camps) that hold undocumented immigrants are deplorable and the idea that kids are in those places saddens me and pisses me off.

That said, those places were established in the Obama era. Not that it excuses anything but when youíre showing outrage against the current administration itís best to know the facts.

Itís shameful that things havenít improved though and the presidentís public comments have never shown me that he has any real sympathy for the kids suffering. And the policy of separating kids from parents is his policy, despite his lies to the contrary.
I like this hijack better. Don't know whether or not it started with Obama, but sure, why not. Here's why it's worse under Trump tho:
1) Obama was competent enough to keep it quiet (same beef I had with Clinton--Not the first ever POTUS to get hummed in the oval, I'd be willing to bet. But he was sloppy. I mean, the story leaked. Oh nevermind.)
2) Obama did enough other things right that people weren't looking especially hard for things to crucify him with
3) Obama is not the president right now, which is our best opportunity to undo it
4) If it hadn't started under Obama, it would have under Trump because Trump is The Devil.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:43 PM
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The Obama administration built the buildings, but did not have a child separation policy, did not argue in front of a judge that children don't need hygiene supplies and blankets, and have not shown a serial callous disregard for the human rights of migrants.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:45 PM
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Not entirely accurate. Yes, there were detention facilities under Bush and Obama.
Always check Snopes.
Quote:
What this photograph depicts is ... a temporary holding facility/processing center for undocumented children who were apprehended entering the U.S. by Customs and Border Protection (CBP) during the height of an unprecedented surge of child migration from Central America that took place in 2014 ...

the children kept there were treated humanely, were provided with medical care, and were held only until they could be placed with relatives or other caretakers pending adjudication of their cases
And yes, families were never separated until Trump made cruelty for its own sake our national policy. Those facilities were only for children traveling alone - yes, it's been common for Central American families to be so desperate to keep their children alive that they'd send them north, on their own.

Even if Trump isn't really a Christian, Pence claims to be and maybe he can explain this to him:
Quote:
"Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

“And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 06-25-2019 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 03:48 PM
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The facilities (what some have called concentration camps) that hold undocumented immigrants are deplorable and the idea that kids are in those places saddens me and pisses me off.

That said, those places were established in the Obama era. Not that it excuses anything but when youíre showing outrage against the current administration itís best to know the facts.

Itís shameful that things havenít improved though and the presidentís public comments have never shown me that he has any real sympathy for the kids suffering. And the policy of separating kids from parents is his policy, despite his lies to the contrary.
Obama set of detention facilities for families, which may or may not be moral depending on your point of view, but he never had anything remotely as bad as the hell hole that is being reported.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:17 PM
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That said, those places were established in the Obama era. Not that it excuses anything but when youíre showing outrage against the current administration itís best to know the facts.
No, the detention centers were established under Bush and Obama attempted to close them.

Weeping in the Playtime of Others: The Obama Administrationís Failed Reform of ICE Family Detention Practices Dora Schriro*
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:21 PM
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No, the detention centers were established under Bush and Obama attempted to close them.

Weeping in the Playtime of Others: The Obama Administrationís Failed Reform of ICE Family Detention Practices Dora Schriro*
And did any children die alone there without their parents in the past?
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:22 PM
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So there's this:

U.S. Border Patrol Is Refusing Citizen Donations Even as It Holds Migrant Children Without Access to Soap and Toothpaste

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A slew of other sympathetic people, advocacy groups and lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle have expressed a desire to lend a hand to the kids housed in the facilities. But after purchasing items like toys, soap, toothbrushes, diapers and medicine ó especially as news reports circulate of facilities having drinking water that tastes like bleach and sick children without enough clothing ó theyíve been met with a common message: No donations are being accepted.
And, towards the end of the article we have this tweet from MSNBC:

Quote:
Rep. Burgess on conditions in migrant camps: "You know what? There's not a lock on the door. Any child is free to leave at anytime, but they don't. You know why? Because they are well taken care of." https://on.msnbc.com/2IFVofT
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:34 PM
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The badness is so overwhelming right now, it's messing me up emotionally. One of the lawyers who interviewed some of the detained kids was on today's All Things Considered, and I got tears in my ears when she said one of the kids she'd talked to said she had been separated from her aunt. I immediately thought of me having guardianship of my nieces and thinking we might have a chance for a decent life as long as we make it to the other side of the desert. Only to be separated from them. Maybe permanently. I would want to kill myself if that happened.

Some of these kids are never going to be reunited with their families. Because when you're a little baby who can't even speak yet, how can anyone possibly find you? Many of them are going to be forever scarred from all of this. I feel like we should all be storming the gates right now, and yet here I am in my air conditioned living room, not doing shit. I have never been so unhappy to be an American as I am right now.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:43 PM
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This administration is moving toward a policy which will make it a crime to offer humanitarian assistance to other human beings. (those who are deemed "unworthy" of help)
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:44 PM
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What kind of sleazy immature response is that?

The kind of a response someone who does not believe there is such a thing as rape gives.


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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
cheesy porn movies?

That's his type.
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:04 PM
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This administration is moving toward a policy which will make it a crime to offer humanitarian assistance to other human beings. (those who are deemed "unworthy" of help)
The Administration would arrest this guy.
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:14 PM
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Well, years ago the Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for lying about a consensual affair and obstruction of justice. How long did that dominate the news?
20 years and counting.
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Old 06-25-2019, 05:14 PM
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The Administration would arrest this guy.
Bleeding heart hippie. All he's doing is enabling a bum who is a parasite on the soft underbelly of society.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:27 PM
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That the rape allegation isn't front page news is just another demonstration that we, as a country, don't really care that much about sexual assault and rape. Maybe a bit more than we did 5 years ago, but still very far from where we should be.
I think the issue is that anyone who is honest and informed already knows trump is a rapist and sex offender and it's just another accusation at this point.

Trumps 17th accusation or Bill Cosbys 53rd accusation of sex crimes carries less weight than if another celebrity got their first accusation.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 06-25-2019 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
I think the issue is that anyone who is honest and informed already knows trump is a rapist and sex offender and it's just another accusation at this point.

Trumps 17th accusation or Bill Cosbys 53rd accusation of sex crimes carries less weight than if another celebrity got their first accusation.
This is true, though I continue to be bothered that he hasn't been arrested for it. Yes, yes, I know, he's above the law. Pardon me while I vomit.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:13 PM
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Not entirely accurate. Yes, there were detention facilities under Bush and Obama. But families who were detained were allowed to stay together. They might be separated if child trafficking were suspected, but there was nowhere near Trump's zero-tolerance policy of separating children from their families as a terror tactic.
Iím pretty sure I acknowledged this when I said, ďAnd the policy of separating kids from parents is his policy, despite his lies to the contrary.Ē But yes, while the facilities themselves arenít his doing, the policy separating kids and sticking them in there without family to watch them definitely is.
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Old 06-25-2019, 07:55 PM
Wesley Clark is online now
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
This is true, though I continue to be bothered that he hasn't been arrested for it. Yes, yes, I know, he's above the law. Pardon me while I vomit.
Oh yeah. If Trump doesn't die in prison, its going to make a lot of people realize America truly is an oligarchy.
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