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  #51  
Old 11-17-2017, 02:39 AM
puzzlegal puzzlegal is online now
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
I seem to recall that study, too, but I also seem to recall that it was very poorly controlled. Maybe eating pork contributes to cervical cancer, for instance: There's a strong correlation between women married to circumcised men and women who don't eat pork.
Since we've recently learned that most cervical cancer is caused by a virus, it seems intuitive that a practice that makes hygiene easier also reduces the risk of cervical cancer.

That being said, any health benefits of circumcision seem modest*, and obtainable without body modification. I had my infant son circumcised because I'm a Jew, and he'd be an outcast among Jews if he were uncut, and as best as I can tell, it's not, on net, a harmful practice. But were I not Jewish I would not have done so.


* the greatest health benefit seems to be that it greatly reduces the risk of a man contracting HIV from sex with a woman. But that risk is modest in the US, and condoms work, too.
  #52  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:58 AM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
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Originally Posted by UDS View Post
Circumcision is widespread in Iraq; the great majority of adult male Iraqis would be circumcised.

I don't know where you read what you read, but an awful lot of guff about what the Iraqis did or didn't do was written at about the time of the Second Gulf War. Just sayin'.
If you believe Dominique Lapierre's account, back during the civil unrest that preceded the Partition of India, Hindu mobs looking to kill Muslims would sometimes demand that their victim drop their pants so they could tell if he was Muslim or Hindu.
  #53  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:36 PM
nelliebly nelliebly is offline
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I don't know about cervical cancer, but according to the World Health Organization,
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Medical male circumcision reduces the risk of female-to-male sexual transmission of HIV by approximately 60%.
Just throwing that into the mix.
  #54  
Old 11-19-2017, 12:31 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is online now
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As much as I want to limit the spread of HIV, I'm not sure you can morally justify removing bits of a men for the benefit of women.

Can't we just issue condoms to people instead of cutting parts off their genitals?
  #55  
Old 11-19-2017, 02:17 AM
Ranger Jeff Ranger Jeff is offline
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They're so intermeshed one might forget that something that is considered an Arab thing might not necessarily be a Muslim thing, even if a Muslim is doing it. Perhaps female genital mutilation is an African or Arab thing, not something commanded or recommended in the Koran?
  #56  
Old 11-19-2017, 02:29 AM
Evan Drake Evan Drake is offline
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A Preservation Of Honor For Women

You what ?


Abu Hurayrah said: I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and plucking the armpit hairs.”
Bukhari 5891; Muslim 527


[ They had endless, heady hours of fun in those days ]



Abu al- Malih ibn `Usama's father relates that the Prophet said: "Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women."

Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 5:75; Abu Dawud, Adab 167.




Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female) by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male, but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris (this is called Hufaad)
Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law
Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri



[ Sometimes the fun had to stop ]


WikiIslam: Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars: Female Genital Mutilation




It derives from the same source as the Jewish imperative, Islam ( and Christianity [ which decided to junk that bit ] being offshoots of Judaism.
  #57  
Old 11-19-2017, 02:30 AM
Evan Drake Evan Drake is offline
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A Preservation Of Honor For Women

Dup: Board screwed up

Last edited by Evan Drake; 11-19-2017 at 02:31 AM.
  #58  
Old 11-19-2017, 04:43 AM
Ramira Ramira is offline
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You quoted not widely accepted HADITH. not the Quran.
So what has already been said, but thank you for the Wiki-Google theology learning.

Last edited by Ramira; 11-19-2017 at 04:44 AM.
  #59  
Old 11-19-2017, 05:05 AM
Evan Drake Evan Drake is offline
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I never said it wasn't hadith. Are you somehow disputing the hadith ? Or do you have any point at all ?
  #60  
Old 11-19-2017, 05:08 AM
Ramira Ramira is offline
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Yes, those Hadith on women are not widely considered valid Hadith so I am highlighitng random Google theology is not useful. And you posted in apparent reply to a person mentioning the Quran.

There are thousands and thousands of the dubuious hadith, googling up the hadith says very little.
  #61  
Old 11-19-2017, 05:28 AM
Ramira Ramira is offline
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Originally Posted by Ranger Jeff View Post
Perhaps female genital mutilation is an African or Arab thing, not something commanded or recommended in the Koran?
There is no reason to speculate, the presence of the practice is clearly not the Arab practice as it is absent in most of the arab lands.

The mapping of the practice the female circumcision concept in the islamic world is into the North East Africa and the most adjacent areas, and along the old Sahel trade route to that region (sahel west africa). This is also the type that is most deserving of the name mutiliation (going beyond the symbolic). Egypt and the eithiopia is the core, where in both countries both christian and muslim practice it, pointing to the age depth preceding the religions.

it is a practice that seems historically rooted in the old phaorinic culture that then in both the religions got back-justified by the spurious sayings.
  #62  
Old 11-19-2017, 06:26 AM
puzzlegal puzzlegal is online now
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
As much as I want to limit the spread of HIV, I'm not sure you can morally justify removing bits of a men for the benefit of women.

Can't we just issue condoms to people instead of cutting parts off their genitals?
As much as I don't want to encourage westerners to circumcised their babies for "health", reducing female-to-male transmission of HIV directly benefits the man who has a lower risk of contracting HIV.

After those studies came out (done in Southern Africa, where the prevalence of HIV is very high and it's commonly spread through piv sex) quite a lot of adult men in the region chose to be circumcised, for their own protection.
  #63  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:05 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is online now
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It's one thing for an adult man to choose it. It's another to be lopping off bits of babies.
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