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Old 11-16-2017, 06:11 PM
SuntanLotion SuntanLotion is offline
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Vegatarians eat birds?

My boyfriend, not the brightest light on the tree, claims vegetarians eat turkey and chicken because they aren't meat.
I told him if it moves of its own accord, its meat.
Can you give me a link or two so I can prove him wrong?
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:17 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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There are about as many definitions of vegetarian as there are practicing vegetarians.

We had a big long thread a while back about if turkey and chicken were meat. If you look in some cook books you see meat and poultry listed separately. with meat being things like beef, pork and lamb.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:18 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is online now
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Originally Posted by SuntanLotion View Post
Can you give me a link or two so I can prove him wrong?
Here you go

http://sciencefunp.blogspot.com/2012...rtebrates.html
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:23 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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http://www.dummies.com/food-drink/re...f-vegetarians/

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There are different kinds of vegetarians, depending on what they eat. The definition of a vegetarian thatís most widely accepted by fellow vegetarians is a person who eats no meat, fish, or poultry. A vegetarian consistently avoids all flesh foods, as well as byproducts of meat, fish, and poultry.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:12 PM
Alley Dweller Alley Dweller is online now
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The word your friend is looking for is Pollotarian.

I like the Urban Dictionary top definition for politarian:
Quote:
A person looking for a fancy name for their meat restricted diet despite knowing that 99% of people don't have a clue wtf a Pollotarian is & have to explain afterwards.
You might want to check out the usage examples following the definition.

Meal Plan for a Pollotarian


Facts on Pollotarian Diet

Now, having said that, people call themselves whatever the hell they want. There's no way to stop some diet-fanatic from declaring that he is a vegetarian even though he eats meat. In fact in 1944 Donald Watson invented the term "vegan" to mean "vegetarian who really means it" because so many different people had co-opted the term "vegetarian."

Last edited by Alley Dweller; 11-16-2017 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:20 PM
markn+ markn+ is online now
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I thought vegans were blue skinned aliens from Vega.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:27 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Originally Posted by markn+ View Post
I thought vegans were blue skinned aliens from Vega.
Nah, more like this.

Generally, vegetarian means no meat, poultry, fish, but do eat eggs and milk. Some people get "creative" with their definitions.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:01 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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I'm partial to the term "flexitarian." As in, a vegetarian who is flexible enough to eat meat sometimes. It pretty much describes my family's diet.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:06 PM
Yllaria Yllaria is online now
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No chickens - no turkeys. But barnacle geese are okay, if you're sure they ripened on a tree. Actually, that's not vegetarianism, it's medieval fast days. For those, fish were okay. And they were closer to vegetarianism than your boyfriend is.

Don't tell him about beavers' tails.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:49 PM
Weisshund Weisshund is offline
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pretty sure if it has heart lungs gills or a brain, it is meat and not veggie safe.

Birds breath bleed and think
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:51 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Nah, more like this.

Generally, vegetarian means no meat, poultry, fish, but do eat eggs and milk. Some people get "creative" with their definitions.
In the past and in some religions "meat" does not always include fish. Under Kashrut fish can be eaten with dairy but "meat" cannot, and during Lent one can eat fish but not meat.

Pretty much 4 + decades ago a "vegetarian" might well eat fish normally.

Today- not so much. Tomorrow I suspect that the dfeintion of "vegetarian" will = "vegan".

But fowl is indeed meat.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:54 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Originally Posted by SuntanLotion View Post
My boyfriend, not the brightest light on the tree, claims vegetarians eat turkey and chicken because they aren't meat.
I told him if it moves of its own accord, its meat.
Can you give me a link or two so I can prove him wrong?
While vegetarianism has different shades, everybody I've known for the past twenty or so years who refer to themselves as vegetarian excludes eating any creatures. And, yes, that includes fish. Vegans are stricter vegetarians who also eschew any animal products (that includes dairy and eggs as the big ones, and often honey). There are also other types of vegetarian, like Hindu vegetarians tend to be of the lacto-vegetarian kind (meaning, dairy is okay, but eggs are not. And, still, no creatures.)
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
In the past and in some religions "meat" does not always include fish. Under Kashrut fish can be eaten with dairy but "meat" cannot, and during Lent one can eat fish but not meat.

Pretty much 4 + decades ago a "vegetarian" might well eat fish normally.

Today- not so much. Tomorrow I suspect that the dfeintion of "vegetarian" will = "vegan".

But fowl is indeed meat.
Roman Catholics have always been allowed to eat fish on Fridays, before Vatican II, and even today on Fridays during Lent, when they are expected to abstain from all meat.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:11 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
In the past and in some religions "meat" does not always include fish. Under Kashrut fish can be eaten with dairy but "meat" cannot, and during Lent one can eat fish but not meat.

Pretty much 4 + decades ago a "vegetarian" might well eat fish normally.

Today- not so much. Tomorrow I suspect that the dfeintion of "vegetarian" will = "vegan".

But fowl is indeed meat.
That's usually called a pescetarian these days.
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Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
I'm partial to the term "flexitarian." As in, a vegetarian who is flexible enough to eat meat sometimes. It pretty much describes my family's diet.
There's also the "I'm vegetarian but will eat meat when I'm really hammered"-arian. I think that's the official term.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:20 PM
Tatterdemalion Tatterdemalion is online now
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Originally Posted by markn+ View Post
I thought vegans were blue skinned aliens from Vega.
More like this:

http://mporcius.blogspot.com/2016/12/agent-of-vega-by-james-h-schmitz.html
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:20 PM
Alley Dweller Alley Dweller is online now
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Originally Posted by cochrane View Post
Roman Catholics have always been allowed to eat fish on Fridays, before Vatican II, and even today on Fridays during Lent, when they are expected to abstain from all meat.
Fun fact: Fish are a different category of animal. Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles, (cold-blooded animals) and shellfish are permitted.

So while you may not feast on chicken, you may endure having to eat lobster, frog legs, and rattle snake.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:28 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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For that matter, there are some religions where "vegetarian" also means no onions. Religious rules don't have to make sense.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:49 PM
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My boyfriend, not the brightest light on the tree
He better be really, REALLY good in bed.
  #19  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:18 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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For that matter, there are some religions where "vegetarian" also means no onions. Religious rules don't have to make sense.
Well, if it’s what I’m thinking of (Jainism, some Buddhists, etc), it’s not that they don’t consider onions (and garlic, potatoes, root vegetables, depending on who we’re talking about) non-vegetarian—it’s that their diet is vegetarian plus excludes certain foods that “excite the senses” or are otherwise considered bad for the soul. It’s really a separate issue from their vegetarianism, which is based on non-violence.

Last edited by pulykamell; 11-16-2017 at 11:18 PM.
  #20  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:20 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is online now
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I think that someone who is a vegetarian doesn't eat any flesh from an animal. Is that not the case?
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:38 PM
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I think that someone who is a vegetarian doesn't eat any flesh from an animal. Is that not the case?
Generally, but words mean what we use them to mean, and the same word is frequently used to mean different things.

I had a friend who would eat wild-caught fish and game but not farmed animals, his rationale being that he was concerned about how animals lived, rather than about how they died. You may share his views or not, but it does look like a perfectly cromulent ethical position. But in circumstances where explaining this would have been more detail than was required, he would often simply slot himself into the "vegetarian" category, since this would mean he was not offered food that was problematic for him.

So, yeah, not everyone who is "vegetarian" is as necessarily vegetarian as we might expect. But our expectations are mostly our problem, not theirs.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:43 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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I've been a pretty straight-up vegetarian for 30 years (except for a brief stretch during basic training when field chow was my only option, and I was burning 4000 calories a day). Anyway. I know lots of vegetarians and vegans. The rule is "Nothing with a face." Or, I would add, any kind or neurological system & vascular system, however primitive.

It means that for the vegetarian who chooses to eat eggs and dairy, FERTILIZED eggs are out. So is cheese with rennet. We also prefer cruelty-free eggs and dairy, so we like them to come from free-range animals.

We also don't wear leather, or use items form animals when it is not necessary, or an alternative of it is. A doctor offered me a medication once, and it was in capsule; it was the timed-release version. The capsules had gelatin. I found that the non-timed release worked just as well, but you hut you had to remember to take them every two hours, and wake up at night to take one.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:19 AM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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I've been a pretty straight-up vegetarian for 30 years (except for a brief stretch during basic training when field chow was my only option, and I was burning 4000 calories a day). Anyway. I know lots of vegetarians and vegans. The rule is "Nothing with a face." Or, I would add, any kind or neurological system & vascular system, however primitive.

It means that for the vegetarian who chooses to eat eggs and dairy, FERTILIZED eggs are out. So is cheese with rennet. We also prefer cruelty-free eggs and dairy, so we like them to come from free-range animals.

We also don't wear leather, or use items form animals when it is not necessary, or an alternative of it is. A doctor offered me a medication once, and it was in capsule; it was the timed-release version. The capsules had gelatin. I found that the non-timed release worked just as well, but you hut you had to remember to take them every two hours, and wake up at night to take one.
But it's Ok to drive a car, even though the fuel used to be dinosaurs?
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:49 AM
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Anyone that's a vegetarian for moral reasons should stick to eating only fruit. By eating fruit you are generally helping the plant, while the eating of other parts is likely to harm it. What does having a face or advanced neurological system matter? That's not about morality, that's about things that creep you out.

For bonus points, once done eating, bury your apple cores in fertile ground not too close to any other trees.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:06 AM
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I'm partial to the term "flexitarian." As in, a vegetarian who is flexible enough to eat meat sometimes.
I thought it meant a Unitarian who does yoga.
  #26  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:12 AM
John Mace John Mace is online now
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I'm partial to the term "flexitarian." As in, a vegetarian who is flexible enough to eat meat sometimes. It pretty much describes my family's diet.
As if we need another term for omnivore. What do you call a virgin who is flexible enough to have sex from time to time? Or, the smoker who says: Quitting is easy. I've done it dozens of times.

Last edited by John Mace; 11-17-2017 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
The rule is "Nothing with a face."
If you define "face" to mean "mouth, nose, and two eyes", then birds don't have faces because a beak isn't the same as a nose and a mouth. Therefore, one can eat birds and still say "I never eat anything with a face".

As I see it, everyone has a line they draw of what they will eat and what they won't. Most Americans draw that line with cows and pigs on one side of the line but horses, cats, and dogs, on the other side of the line. Myself, I draw the line with mammals on one side and non-mammals on the other. I usually say "I don't eat beef or pork", but if someone asks me "Are you a vegetarian?", I often find it's easier to just say "yes" rather than go into an explanation.

FWIW, Spider Robinson once wrote that a chicken is "such a pathetically stupid animal that vegetarians eat them with a clear conscience." On a related note, there's a scene in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mo...Harsh_Mistress where Prof (a self-described vegetarian) eats ham by pretending that it's pink salmon.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:21 AM
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As if we need another term for omnivore. What do you call a virgin who is flexible enough to have sex from time to time? Or, the smoker who says: Quitting is easy. I've done it dozens of times.
Surely you aren't suggesting that "vegetarian" should only apply to people who have never eaten meat, are you? That's the analogy with "virgin". And exactly how long does someone have to refrain from smoking before you would allow them to use the label "non-smoker"? One week? One month? One year? One decade? A closer analogy would be what would you call a person who never smokes cigarettes (or tobacco in any form) but occasionally smokes marijuana? Would you object to such a person calling themselves a non-smoker?
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:35 AM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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I told him if it moves of its own accord, its meat.
Clearly a city girl, who's never seen sunflowers grow. Or corn, or tomatoes.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:55 AM
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If you define "face" to mean "mouth, nose, and two eyes", then birds don't have faces because a beak isn't the same as a nose and a mouth. Therefore, one can eat birds and still say "I never eat anything with a face".
That's a bit silly, but it does bring to mind that certain animals like oysters legitimately don't have a face. A strict vegetarian wouldn't eat any dead animals. But a lot of vegetarians are not 100%. Pescetarians eat fish; I don't think there's a special word for people who eat certain invertebrates.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:57 AM
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Surely you aren't suggesting that "vegetarian" should only apply to people who have never eaten meat, are you? That's the analogy with "virgin". And exactly how long does someone have to refrain from smoking before you would allow them to use the label "non-smoker"? One week? One month? One year? One decade? A closer analogy would be what would you call a person who never smokes cigarettes (or tobacco in any form) but occasionally smokes marijuana? Would you object to such a person calling themselves a non-smoker?
Deacon: I think we drink virgin blood because it sounds cool.

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  #32  
Old 11-17-2017, 03:02 AM
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I've known a lot of people who don't eat mammals but do eat other animals.I imagine they often check the "vegetarian" box because it's easier than explaining.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:18 AM
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He better be really, REALLY good in bed.
ha ha - that was my first thought too; but then I thought that he could be a footballer or something with a ridiculous income.
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:03 AM
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So is cheese with rennet.
Fortunately, most cheese made these days doesn't involve real rennet. Something like 90% of cheese is made with fermentation-produced chymosin, where they've taken the genes for rennet enzymes and put them into fungi or bacteria. However, there's still some made with real rennet, so you may want to do some research if this matters to you
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:04 AM
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While vegetarianism has different shades, everybody I've known for the past twenty or so years who refer to themselves as vegetarian excludes eating any creatures.
The same. But the vegetarians I know, know more vegetarians than I do, including plenty of people they think aren't "real vegetarians".

The term we used when I was at university was "white meat vegetarian", and there were plenty of them in the liberal arts school.

By the way, my mother isn't a vegetarian. She just doesn't eat meat. There's probably a term for that too.
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:23 AM
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I try not to use a term, but it might be easier. I choose not to eat red meat for a variety of reasons (too fatty, colon cancer avoidance, don't really like it to begin with) but it sounds so pretentious to explain that, "oh I don't eat red meat," if someone offers me a cheeseburger or something. It swings the other way too. I've never claimed to be vegetarian, and I never would, but people who are familiar with my dietary habits refer to me that way all the time.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:54 AM
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Fortunately, most cheese made these days doesn't involve real rennet. Something like 90% of cheese is made with fermentation-produced chymosin, where they've taken the genes for rennet enzymes and put them into fungi or bacteria.
Surely you're not saying that it's ok for a vegetarian to eat food that involves killing poor defenseless fungi?? Fungi are more closely related to animals than plants are. Stop the mycocide!
  #38  
Old 11-17-2017, 12:26 PM
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My boyfriend, not the brightest light on the tree, . . . .
Can you give me a link or two so I can prove him wrong?
The links have been provided, now how will you explain the information contained within?
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:38 PM
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As if we need another term for omnivore. What do you call a virgin who is flexible enough to have sex from time to time? Or, the smoker who says: Quitting is easy. I've done it dozens of times.
Omnivore is not a choice. It's a biological fact. Humans are omnivores whether we choose to eat meat or not. Likewise, choosing to eat only plants does not make one an herbivore, nor does choosing to eat only meat make one a carnivore.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:18 PM
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Anyone that's a vegetarian for moral reasons should stick to eating only fruit. By eating fruit you are generally helping the plant, while the eating of other parts is likely to harm it. What does having a face or advanced neurological system matter? That's not about morality, that's about things that creep you out.

For bonus points, once done eating, bury your apple cores in fertile ground not too close to any other trees.
You don't understand what you're snarking about.
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  #41  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:26 PM
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Fun fact: Fish are a different category of animal. Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles, (cold-blooded animals) and shellfish are permitted.

So while you may not feast on chicken, you may endure having to eat lobster, frog legs, and rattle snake.
And beavers too apparently.
  #42  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:44 PM
Colibri Colibri is online now
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And beavers too apparently.
As the article mentions, capybaras too.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:13 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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But it's Ok to drive a car, even though the fuel used to be dinosaurs?
Ah, but they didn't die just to make them into oil.

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Originally Posted by Melbourne View Post
There's probably a term for that too.
If there were, I'd use it. I became a vegetarian, because I don't like the way meat tastes. Never did. There were always battles at the table when I was a kid to get me to eat meat. Never had a problem with vegetables (and I always kinda resented that "kids don't like vegetables" stereotype), but the only meat I would eat without a fuss were roast beef, well-done, and a few types of chicken.

I was so happy when I was on my own, and could choose not to eat meat. I choose not to use leather, because I don't like the way it smells. Or feels.

I guess as an adult, knowing where meat and leather comes from has contributed to the squickiness, but when I was a little kid, I don't think I even knew where meat came from-- I just knew I didn't like it.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:16 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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I think that someone who is a vegetarian doesn't eat any flesh from an animal. Is that not the case?
Today, yes. Not yesterday and not tomorrow.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:19 PM
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If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:44 PM
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I honestly thought this was going to be about the coconut crabs that they just discovered don't only eat fruit and carrion, but attack seabirds opportunistically.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:07 PM
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If vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Humanitables.
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:50 AM
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The term we used when I was at university was "white meat vegetarian", and there were plenty of them in the liberal arts school.
I've known quite a few people who simply say, "I don't eat red meat." I never considered them vegetarians of any stripe and I doubt they did either. Are you sure they weren't some wanker using the term WMV to get into some vegan's pants?
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Old 11-18-2017, 09:58 AM
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I've known quite a few people who simply say, "I don't eat red meat." I never considered them vegetarians of any stripe and I doubt they did either. Are you sure they weren't some wanker using the term WMV to get into some vegan's pants?
When I was a kid such people often identified as vegetarians. If someone says "I'm a vegan", I know what that means. If someone says "I'm a vegetarian", and I need to find/prepare food for them, I ask them to specify.
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Old 11-19-2017, 04:06 PM
SuntanLotion SuntanLotion is offline
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He better be really, REALLY good in bed.
Not really. Once he said there were 2 months with only three Wednesdays.
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