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  #1  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:02 PM
David Ehrlich David Ehrlich is offline
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BBQ vs. Grill

You, like many Americans, fail to distinguish between Barbecuing and grilling. Some Americans think that slapping some barbecue sauce over the meat makes it barbecued; that is incorrect. Except in Australia, barbecuing includes not only sauce, it also means long slow cooking over low heat (if you cooked it for less than three hours, then you didn't barbecue it). Grilling is just the opposite: fast cooking over high heat, e.g. the backyard grill. In Australia, due to their imperfect understanding of the English language, they call a backyard grill a barbie. (I have no idea of what they call the doll.)
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:35 PM
Telemark Telemark is online now
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Originally Posted by David Ehrlich View Post
Except in Australia
And the entire American south from Texas to the Carolinas.
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:50 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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I can only assume you are referring to Cecil's column Does barbecuing cause cancer?
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:54 PM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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I, too, was dismayed at Cecil's misuse of the terms barbecuing and grilling, i.e., using them interchangeably when they are two quite different things altogether.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:56 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Spiff View Post
I, too, was dismayed at Cecil's misuse of the terms barbecuing and grilling, i.e., using them interchangeably when they are two quite different things altogether.
I use them interchangeably, like vagina and vulva.
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  #6  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:59 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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Language changes over time. Being a fan and practitioner of both cooking styles I'm a bit uncomfortable with the lack of distinction but we're just going to have to get used to it.
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  #7  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:01 PM
silenus silenus is online now
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Never!
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  #8  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:04 PM
squidfood squidfood is offline
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So are these regionalisms in the U.S., or are some people just wrong?

Growing up in L.A. (1970s), we used the Australian sense of "throwing things on the BBQ" when we grilled, while being well aware that a Kansas or Texas or wherever style BBQ was something quite different.

Edit: "Grill", on the other hand, was used exclusively for putting it close to the flame in an inside oven, on the grill setting. Synonym with "broil".

Last edited by squidfood; 03-10-2017 at 01:06 PM..
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  #9  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:07 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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Originally Posted by Spiff View Post
I, too, was dismayed at Cecil's misuse of the terms barbecuing and grilling, i.e., using them interchangeably when they are two quite different things altogether.
This is an extremely common usage of the words. As with pretty much all words Barbecue has a variety of meanings. Sometimes it means cooking over direct heat as is used in the column. A quick survey of dictionaries puts this meaning as the most popular.
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  #10  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:09 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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Your very arbitrary time of "less than three hours" is hogwash. Yes, I want my whole hog pork in Eastern NC cooked over coals overnight. No sauce necessary(maybe a mop sauce of vinegar/reed pepper flakes). But I could barbecue a bluefish over smoke and low heat in just under three hours.
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  #11  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:15 PM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
I use them interchangeably, like vagina and vulva.
Heathen!
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:26 PM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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Heathen!
I know. I can't believe he eats that stuff.

FWIW, it's always been "grilling" and "the grill" to me (Northern CA and those I know here in the northeast.) But the terms are largely synonymous in my mind even though I know the different origins and "core" of each cooking method.

I rarely "barbecue." But I have a neighbor who has never turned his grill up past about 300, either.
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:10 PM
hajario hajario is online now
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I was corrected here about that some years ago and now I don't make that mistake anymore. I grill very often but I have never barbecued.
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  #14  
Old 03-10-2017, 04:39 PM
Trancephalic Trancephalic is offline
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Pssh! You think that's bad? Have you seen what they call tigers?

Last edited by Trancephalic; 03-10-2017 at 04:39 PM..
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2017, 07:49 AM
ftg ftg is offline
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It's only a certain American subculture that somehow morphed the meaning of barbecue into something very specific.

The word comes from Caribbean natives for a gridwork of sticks used to cook over a fire. (And similar structures for sleeping, storage, etc.)

It's still used in that general sense all over America and the world.

I have no idea where the notion of a specific way of grilling (and often not even grilling at all!) got stuck in some people's minds as the One Holy True Definition.

When you get into people using the One Holy True Definition you know they lost the argument.
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  #16  
Old 03-11-2017, 08:32 AM
Chronos Chronos is online now
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Every state in the southern United States has the One True Method of barbecuing, and they're all different. While some are clearly wrong (like Alabama's use of mayonnaise-based sauce), there's no consensus.
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  #17  
Old 03-11-2017, 09:01 AM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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I thought they were nouns ... "I cleaned the grill in the BBQ before I started cooking." ... the verb is "to cook" ... but maybe that's just me ...
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  #18  
Old 03-11-2017, 11:48 AM
garygnu garygnu is online now
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Originally Posted by squidfood View Post
...

Edit: "Grill", on the other hand, was used exclusively for putting it close to the flame in an inside oven, on the grill setting. Synonym with "broil".
Interesting. I've never heard "grill" used for any cooking involving an oven.
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  #19  
Old 03-11-2017, 04:59 PM
jnglmassiv jnglmassiv is offline
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I'm reasonably active in the barbeque hobby community and these definition debates come up all the time. Different words for a given meaning is common and no one is right or wrong... except the guy loudly protesting for 'proper' usage. He's wrong.

I personally use 'smoke' for low & low cooking.

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Originally Posted by garygnu View Post
Interesting. I've never heard "grill" used for any cooking involving an oven.
It's a British vs American English thing.
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  #20  
Old 03-11-2017, 08:04 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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Cecil is from Chicago. He has odd ideas about hot dog toppings, and things that Chicago style pizza is edible.
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Originally Posted by jnglmassiv View Post
It's a British vs American English thing.
British grilling = American broiling. I.e. heat coming from above, such as the broiler grate in most ovens, or a separate compartment in some ("salamander").

No putting sauce on something doesn't make it BBQ. But my mind usually goes to the wet styles first, not dry rub.

Last edited by thelurkinghorror; 03-11-2017 at 08:06 PM..
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  #21  
Old 03-12-2017, 05:38 PM
Balthisar Balthisar is offline
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Michigander. Barbecue is, well, barbecue (or BBQ or barbeque).. Grilling is hot dogs and hamburgers.

I stayed a year in a Residence Inn in Ontario several years ago, and that chain gives you a snack/dinner at the typical come-home-from-work time. As winter ended, their calendar indicated "Yummy Barbecue" would be featured. I was excited, as I was bored of the chicken nuggets and frozen tacos. I made it a point to get there on time and not go out, and guess what was served: hot dogs and hamburgers.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2017, 06:01 PM
wolfpup wolfpup is offline
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I think most of us understand the difference between outdoor barbecue grilling and the true southern sense of barbecue, but to my mind, "grilling" is anything done on a grill, which doesn't fully define an outdoor barbecue. An outdoor barbecue, whether it's a charcoal or a gas grill, produces both searing and smoke from the juices and creates flavors that you simply can't get indoors.

It may not be southern barbecue, but it's not indoor plain grilling or oven broiling, either. Especially after not using the barbecue for a while because of snow and cold, the first barbecue after a prolonged hiatus is like a breath of summer weekend, campfire, and lakeside cottage all rolled into one sensuous package of tastes and aromas. It surely deserves a word of its own to describe it.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2017, 09:09 PM
Princhester Princhester is offline
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Originally Posted by Trancephalic View Post
Pssh! You think that's bad? Have you seen what they call tigers?
Have you drank that stuff Americans call beer?
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2017, 03:11 PM
smithsb smithsb is offline
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Have you drank that stuff Americans call beer?
The mass produced, gotta serve it ice cold, beer is crap. Please do not disparage the US craft beer industry. You can get every version or taste in beer in America. Any moderately sized city will have dozens of varieties to choose from. Dark/light/fruity/smokey/hoppy/whatever.

I realize you're mocking the "beer" endlessly marketed during sport programs as being able to transform you into a svelte hunk of manhood irresistible to incredibly hot scantily clad chicks.
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  #25  
Old 03-14-2017, 04:13 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is online now
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Fun fact: the most popular beer in Queensland, and #1 or #2 in Australia, is weaker than Utah beer.

NB: 3.2 ABW is 4.0 ABV.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2017, 04:15 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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Originally Posted by smithsb View Post
The mass produced, gotta serve it ice cold, beer is crap. Please do not disparage the US craft beer industry. You can get every version or taste in beer in America. Any moderately sized city will have dozens of varieties to choose from. Dark/light/fruity/smokey/hoppy/whatever.

I realize you're mocking the "beer" endlessly marketed during sport programs as being able to transform you into a svelte hunk of manhood irresistible to incredibly hot scantily clad chicks.
Beer goggles. They're not just for dudes.
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  #27  
Old 03-14-2017, 10:35 PM
snfaulkner snfaulkner is offline
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Originally Posted by squidfood View Post
So are these regionalisms in the U.S., or are some people just wrong?

Growing up in L.A. (1970s), we used the Australian sense of "throwing things on the BBQ" when we grilled, while being well aware that a Kansas or Texas or wherever style BBQ was something quite different.

Edit: "Grill", on the other hand, was used exclusively for putting it close to the flame in an inside oven, on the grill setting. Synonym with "broil".
Broil is specifically high heat from the top.

Grilling is high heat from below.

BBQ'ing is low heat and slow.

Either BBQ'ing or grilling with some sort of flavorful smoke

A back yard grill can be used for bbq'ing.

A back yard bbq can be used for grilling.

"Let's BBQ this weekend" could mean either actual BBQ'ing slow and low, OR using a backyard BBQ to grill and vice-versa.
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2017, 01:18 PM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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Originally Posted by snfaulkner View Post
Broil is specifically high heat from the top.

Grilling is high heat from below.

BBQ'ing is low heat and slow.

Either BBQ'ing or grilling with some sort of flavorful smoke

A back yard grill can be used for bbq'ing.

A back yard bbq can be used for grilling.

"Let's BBQ this weekend" could mean either actual BBQ'ing slow and low, OR using a backyard BBQ to grill and vice-versa.
Generally concur, but I will point out a salient mechanical feature of BBQ: indirect heat. Both grilling and broiling uses radiant heat from the heat source. As much as practical, BBQ interdicts radiant heat and uses hot air/smoke/steam as its heating method.

Hence, rigs like this for a Weber kettle that confines charcoals off to the side, rather than directly under the food to be cooked.

My ancient barrel-type smoker/bbq has the charcoal pan under the cooking grills, but also has a pan of water between. So no infrared is being beamed directly from the fuel to the food. The hot air goes around the pan and swirls around the food under the dome lid, and the water heats up to add steam to the hot air mix. Yum. I can do a 12-pound turkey in about 3-4 hours with a nice regulated 200-225 degree cooking temperature, because a lot of heat goes into the unstuffed internal cavity directly up from the steam bath. (Open wire cone to hold the bird cavity-downward.) But it's smoked, not grilled. ("Smoking" v. "BBQ" is a distinction of cooking temps and fuel, but pretty similar process-wise. Unless you mean old-school cold smoking.)

Last edited by gnoitall; 03-15-2017 at 01:23 PM..
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2017, 03:59 PM
ftg ftg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snfaulkner View Post
Broil is specifically high heat from the top.

Grilling is high heat from below.

BBQ'ing is low heat and slow.

Either BBQ'ing or grilling with some sort of flavorful smoke

A back yard grill can be used for bbq'ing.

A back yard bbq can be used for grilling.

"Let's BBQ this weekend" could mean either actual BBQ'ing slow and low, OR using a backyard BBQ to grill and vice-versa.
This makes my head hurt. When you say ... do you really mean ...? Stuff like that.

A. We need a new term for slow indirect cooking with smoke and/or sauce. Trying to co-opt and redefine for exclusive use a term that's been around for centuries is a bad idea. (I'm often okay with new uses of words. But a lot of people like to erase history and common usage.)

B. Any such term would immediately start a flame* war about the details among the true believers of one form or another.

* Oops. Definitely not intending a joke there.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2017, 09:40 PM
snfaulkner snfaulkner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftg View Post
This makes my head hurt. When you say ... do you really mean ...? Stuff like that.

A. We need a new term for slow indirect cooking with smoke and/or sauce. Trying to co-opt and redefine for exclusive use a term that's been around for centuries is a bad idea. (I'm often okay with new uses of words. But a lot of people like to erase history and common usage.)

B. Any such term would immediately start a flame* war about the details among the true believers of one form or another.

* Oops. Definitely not intending a joke there.
I agree, ambiguity is irritating. And if you make mention of it, then all of sudden YOU are the crazy one, when very obviously THEY were the unclear idiots to begin with. Fuckers.

One thing is for sure, though, when some one says "Let's BBQ this weekend", and that is there will be some sort of yummy food to eat. Hopefully dead meat food. And probably a conversation wherein I get called crazy again.
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  #31  
Old 03-16-2017, 08:59 AM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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Originally Posted by snfaulkner View Post
I agree, ambiguity is irritating. And if you make mention of it, then all of sudden YOU are the crazy one, when very obviously THEY were the unclear idiots to begin with. Fuckers.
Ambiguity is a feature.

No wait, let me explain.

It's a test of whether you're an "insider". The "correct" definition is a shibboleth, a test of whether the person you're communicating with is in the know. A true BBQ aficionado makes the distinction (i.e., untangles the ambiguity) in one rather specialist direction -- that "BBQ" means indirect cooking at lower temperature -- whereas a proletarian schlub uses "BBQ" to describe slapping a chunk of meat directly over a flame.

It's like wine snobbery.

All the more reason then, to eliminate the overlap in terminology. But I won't become a pedantry Nazi about it. Not my style, as long as I understand what they mean.
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  #32  
Old 03-16-2017, 11:24 AM
silenus silenus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnoitall View Post

It's like wine snobbery.
It's worse. Wine snobs don't usually decry fermented grape must from a particular region as "not wine." They don't usually say that "steel tanks mean the product isn't wine" either. They may be very picky about what makes a good wine, but they don't call everything else by another name.

BBQ fanatics, OTOH, quite often do just those things (myself included on occasion).
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  #33  
Old 03-16-2017, 03:58 PM
Irishman Irishman is online now
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Rebuttal: Champangne.
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  #34  
Old 03-16-2017, 06:51 PM
silenus silenus is online now
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Counter-rebuttal:

1) When I see D.O.M. tags on BBQ, then we can talk. Champagne has a legal definition. BBQ doesn't.

2) In fact, a lot of people call sparkling wine "champagne" when it is nothing of the sort, so I'd like the judges to consider this a turn on my opponents argument and flow this card to my side, since people do the same thing to "BBQ."
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2017, 08:01 AM
ftg ftg is offline
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Actually it's more like insisting that only champagne is a wine. What plebes call wine is something else entirely.
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  #36  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:08 PM
nightshadea nightshadea is offline
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heck I just wanna know the beer unca cecils bringin
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