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Old 10-11-2012, 03:10 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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The main factors in why people dress down much more today compared to previous generations?

Your thoughts on this?

Only in todays society can you show up to dinner at a five star steakhouse and have someone be surprised to see someone dressed up in a suit.

Same thing goes for a funeral.

I think the only time people find it normal to see someone in a suit is at a wedding.

What factors have caused the average person to want to dress down to functions that once upon a time, you knew you had to dress up?

Also when did dressing up become a chore? People should feel good about putting on a suit and looking sharp.

Nowdays people complain more than not when they are told there is a dress code. It blows my mind really to hear people whine about having to dress up.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:17 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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What else is sad is when someone does dress better than their boss, and when you have meetings the people that show up think the employee is the owner.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:23 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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People have better thing to do with their lives than put up with arbitrary dress codes. Dress clothes are more expensive to buy, harder to take care of and they are less comfortable.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:24 PM
even sven even sven is offline
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To begin with, a lot more people are doing these things. Even the relatively poor today could, if they prioritized it, visit an expensive steakhouse without making too much of a financial dent. Generations ago, this probably wouldn't be possible without sacrificing money for medicine, heating, daily food or other essentials. It didn't used to be normal to work in offices, attend college, go to the bank, shop at department stores, travel long distances, dine out, etc. So when people did these things, they dressed up. Now we see these things as everyday, and so we don't make as much of a big deal of it. Yesteryear's cross country flight was a once-in-a-lifetime event. Today's is just a hassle.

Our clothing habits have changed. All clothing used to be relatively expensive, requiring skilled tailors and pricey raw materials from far-flung places. People tended to have fewer sets of clothes, which they would wear carefully and repair as needed. Today, we tend to want to have many sets of clothes which we wash frequently and rarely repair. And we have developed mass production that has made clothing cheap. A casual, less tailored look is a better match for this paradigm.

Finally, we have the invention of cool and youth culture. Cool requires looking like you don't care too much. Bankers and lawyers are not cool. Musicians, students and other less-employed people are cool. And these people can wear casual wear.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:26 PM
Sister Vigilante Sister Vigilante is offline
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Because it's a pain in the ass, takes more time to get ready, and costs more money. I want to roll out of bed, put a shirt on, a pair of pants, slip on some sandals, and be done. No pantyhose, no dresses, no skirts. I refuses to wear any of those items ever again.

My boss dresses nicely, but it doesn't stop her from wandering around the office barefoot when she feels like it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:27 PM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Your thoughts on this?

Only in todays society can you show up to dinner at a five star steakhouse and have someone be surprised to see someone dressed up in a suit.

Same thing goes for a funeral.
Last time I went to a funeral, around 8 years ago, there were plenty of people in suits, including myself. Has this changed?

ETA: I did however wear a brightly colored tie because I didn't know the black tie rule. If I ever go to another one, I probably still won't buy a black tie just for the occasion.

Last edited by Ludovic; 10-11-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:47 PM
Machine Elf Machine Elf is offline
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Last time I went to a funeral, around 8 years ago, there were plenty of people in suits, including myself. Has this changed?
I work in a laboratory setting, so Very Nice Clothes are a bad idea. I typically wear jeans and a golf shirt (and steel-toed boots) to work, and even with a lab coat on, my jeans often get dirty. My boss for the past decade or so always wore dress pants, a button-front shirt, and a tie, and it certainly did give him a professional bearing. My new boss is much more casual, and I think I even outdress him on some days.

I hadn't worn a suit for years and years, until last year when my wife's boss died, and I suddenly had to attend my first funeral; we rushed out and bought a suit for me. Dressing up is one way people recognize special occasions (even sad ones), and I felt like it would have been rude to show up in ordinary street clothes as if it were just another social gathering.

I feel the same way about going to nice restaurants. Wearing jeans and a t-shirt is fine if you're going to Chili's or McDonald's, but if you're headed to the kind of restaurant where a team of five waiters simultaneously present the food to everyone at your table, dressing in clothing appropriate to the scene seems like the thing to do; "the food was delicious, and everyone looked nice, too."
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:55 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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I work in a laboratory setting, so Very Nice Clothes are a bad idea. I typically wear jeans and a golf shirt (and steel-toed boots) to work, and even with a lab coat on, my jeans often get dirty. My boss for the past decade or so always wore dress pants, a button-front shirt, and a tie, and it certainly did give him a professional bearing. My new boss is much more casual, and I think I even outdress him on some days.

I hadn't worn a suit for years and years, until last year when my wife's boss died, and I suddenly had to attend my first funeral; we rushed out and bought a suit for me. Dressing up is one way people recognize special occasions (even sad ones), and I felt like it would have been rude to show up in ordinary street clothes as if it were just another social gathering.

I feel the same way about going to nice restaurants. Wearing jeans and a t-shirt is fine if you're going to Chili's or McDonald's, but if you're headed to the kind of restaurant where a team of five waiters simultaneously present the food to everyone at your table, dressing in clothing appropriate to the scene seems like the thing to do; "the food was delicious, and everyone looked nice, too."
An old mentor of mine always said "Dress the part."

That is some of the best advice I ever received.

If you are a businessman, dress like the owner of the best company in the world.

If you are a musician, dress like a rockstar.

If you work in the factory and build motorcycles, get some tattoos and wear a cut off t-shirt.

If you owned a motorcyle shop, and a big biker came in and saw you dressed in a suit , you could possibly turn him away.

If you are a businessman on wall street and showed up with a cut off shirt and tattoos, people would not take you seriously and you more than likely would be sent home.

Its all the way you want to be perceived in life. Want to be taken seriously? Dress the part!

If you go to a fine dining establishment, dress the part. Its that simple.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 03:58 PM.
  #9  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:11 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is online now
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The simple answer is that most western countries used to have a distinct class system in which your mode of dress indicated your place in that system. It worked because the lower classes were so large a piece of the system, and the upper classes controlled the image-making machinery.

WWII broke that class system. The middle class grew to astounding size in the U.S. Their values and their money came to dominate the culture. It took time. The 50s still saw dressing up for most occasions, but the 60s and 70s made a huge rise in leisure time and leisure activities possible by the leap in disposable income and most people started to prefer keeping that leisure dress on a regular basis. Having everybody dress alike was an affirmation of the strength of the middle class. It's the same force that turned a college degree from a luxury earned by 5% of the population to a mandated standard requiring 60% of the population to attend some college. White collar jobs no longer stood out. They were the norm. You didn't need to dress up to prove you were special. It's taken for granted.

Most of us old enough to remember when you had to wear a coat and tie to work every day don't miss those times at all. Suits are awful: expensive, uncomfortable, hard to maintain, and unflattering on most figures. And then you had to add ties, shoes, dress shirts, and all the paraphernalia that goes with them. Forget it. I've worn jeans of some color almost every single day since I left the formal office 22 years ago. The casual culture is as wonderful a part of the new modern world as acceptance for minorities is. You're not going to get me to go back on either one.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Pleonast Pleonast is offline
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People wear what they want to wear, and are less affected by peer pressure than people in the past were. It's that simple.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:04 PM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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People wear what they want to wear, and are less affected by peer pressure than people in the past were. It's that simple.
Its the changes in peer pressure that has allowed for the changing norms. There is still a dress code, its just more diverse and frankly tougher to figure out than it used to be.

Until the mid to late 1990's I was expected to wear a suit to work every day.

In fact it was customary to put on my jacket and button my top button if I was going to talk to a more senior attorney.

I was ABSOLUTELY expected to to wear a suit to any meetings where clients were going to be present.

Then in the mid 1990's clients started showing up without jacket and tie then they started showing up in polo shirts and khakis. You could almost tell who the richest people were in the room by how badly they dressed. This was especially true during the dot-com boom.

At some point the bankers stopped wearing suits to these meetings (venture capitalists had long abandoned suits in favor of rolled up sleeves and comfortable footwear) and lawyers slowly followed suit.

Now you are expected to keep a suit in your closet at work for client meetings but these days I only put on a suit for foreign clients (who still expect their lawyers to look the part. You still shouldn't wear jeans, sneakers, flip flops or sweats (I can't believe we have to remind young lawyers of this), but jackets and ties are no longer expected.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 10-12-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:31 PM
Yarster Yarster is offline
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While I would certainly agree that the fact role models and captains of industry (Richard Branson, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates) seldom wear suits, which contributes to making the statement that not doing so is o.k., I think the real reason it started to occur is the result of it being a low/no cost concession to improve employee morale. Every business is looking for ways to get employees to do more with less and everyone wants to attract top quality personnel. So, if I want to give my employees a 'bonus', that doesn't cost me as an employer any money, I tell employees they get to dress down, which hopefully gives the impression of a more homey feel to the company, and saves the employee money in dry cleaning costs. Then everyone in the industry starts doing it, so I have to up the ante...

It started off as 'casual Friday' where even that meant "wear Dockers and a button down shirt", which evolved into "jeans and a button down shirt", which eventually evolved into "just wear clothes that are clean and don't smell".


Now carry that forward a while in time, and the management wants to seem more like their workers, so they also dress down. Next thing you know, people are no longer buying suits or nice clothes, and thus, they don't have nicer clothes to wear when they go out, and their behavior is reinforced by everyone else not dressing up.

I still have to dress up in a suit for work, but that said, I hate dressing up when I go out, even if it is to a nice steakhouse, where I will still wear slacks and a button down shirt or polo, but never a suit. Why? Because a tie will always find it's way into my food if I'm not careful, and if I stain my polo or button down, it is no big deal and I can launder it at home. If I stain my wool suit jacket, it is a race against time if it is oil based (i.e. every God-damned salad dressing which always makes a break for freedom off the edge of a lettuce sprig on it's way to my mouth) and I have to go to a dry cleaner. If I forget to treat the stain on a polo, big deal, I throw it out. But a ruined suit jacket means the whole suit is hosed and that's some serious expense. I actually try to avoid eating salads for lunch during the week when I am dressed in a suit to avoid this problem.

Last edited by Yarster; 10-11-2012 at 04:32 PM.
  #13  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:52 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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If you go to a fine dining establishment, dress the part. Its that simple.
I'm not going to a fine dining establishment to impress anyone; I'm going to have a fine dining experience. For me that means dressing in something nicer than jeans and a t-shirt, but business casual certainly is enough. There is no "part" unless society decides there is one; and society seems less and less inclined to include suits and fancy dresses in that mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQELITE33
A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up. People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down.
Only in some groups; certainly not in mine. I work in the software engineering world, and my bosses show up in shorts, t-shirts, and sandals. That's perfectly acceptable, and these guys are technology leaders. They earned their respect by their work, not what they wore to work.

Style is arbitrary and fluid. You seem stuck in the static past. Not to say that I don't enjoy dressing up from time to time but the rigid rules of the past are no longer accepted as the only way to go.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:48 PM
skdo23 skdo23 is offline
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Want to be taken seriously? Dress the part!
....and try to avoid actually using the word "Amway."
  #15  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:16 PM
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
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Last time I went to a funeral, around 8 years ago, there were plenty of people in suits, including myself. Has this changed?
Depends on the attendees, I suspect.

The last funeral I attended was this past spring, for the father of a friend of mine. There were probably 100 people in attendance, most of them the contemporaries of the deceased (which meant they were in their 70s and 80s). He lived in the far southwest suburbs of Chicago -- not the city, but not truly rural, either.

I would have expected that most men in that age group would still own a suit, but if they did, they didn't wear them -- other than the immediate family of the deceased, i was the only man in a suit. Most of the men were wearing sport shirts and slacks.

My father, who worked in the business world in the 1960s and 1970s, where a suit was simply the norm, and then worked in academia and as a business consultant for another 20 years, is now retired, and does not own a suit at all.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:02 PM
Typo Negative Typo Negative is offline
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Last time I went to a funeral, around 8 years ago, there were plenty of people in suits, including myself. Has this changed?
About 2 years ago, I went to Memorial service for dear fallen friend. The church was packed, had to have been at least a couple hundred people there.

I wore a suit. It was uncomfortable, but it was a solemn occasion. A lot of the men wore suits.

But there were more than few people who showed up in shorts and t-shirts. A couple in flip-flops, ferchrissakes. I'm pretty liberal, but I have to admit I was appalled.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:35 PM
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When it comes to a job, I will dress as the job requires.

I was tech support for a firm selling medical sensors and software back in the nineties. I wore jeans and a t shirt. We had few visitors to the office, of those most were the Bill Gates type (Impress me with what you can do and I won't care what you wear). The boss (who owned the business) dressed in jeans and a t shirt 95% of the time. He made it clear that he was the boss because he knew every aspect of the business and got things done.

For a summer, I worked as an editor for Weird Tales. My boss was a former lieutenant colonel. He looked like Happy of the seven dwarves in khakis and a button down shirt. Besides exuding confidence and giving gentle guidance, when you really screwed up that man could be terrifying. I firmly believe he had the power to make marines wet themselves and could turn away a pack of wolves. He would be similarly inspiring or intimidating regardless of what he wore.

At weddings, funerals and bar mitzvahs I will dress as the guest of honor would want. It's their day and they should get their way.

I met my last two gf's wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

My friend Michael is a metrosexual. He looks sharp whatever he wears. He is a living refutal of the statement that anybody in jeans and a t shirt looks like a bum.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:33 PM
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For a summer, I worked as an editor for Weird Tales. My boss was a former lieutenant colonel. He looked like Happy of the seven dwarves in khakis and a button down shirt. Besides exuding confidence and giving gentle guidance, when you really screwed up that man could be terrifying. I firmly believe he had the power to make marines wet themselves and could turn away a pack of wolves. He would be similarly inspiring or intimidating regardless of what he wore.
<OT>
The Scithers one? I had picked up a bunch of them, and finally got around to reading them. They were awesome, and I don't even like horror much.
</OT>
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:38 PM
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<OT>
The Scithers one? I had picked up a bunch of them, and finally got around to reading them. They were awesome, and I don't even like horror much.
</OT>
Yep, that's the one!
  #20  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:43 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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I like dressing up, but I don't really have a problem with people who don't. The exceptions are weddings and funerals; you can make the effort, because it's not about you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
Last time I went to a funeral, around 8 years ago, there were plenty of people in suits, including myself. Has this changed?

ETA: I did however wear a brightly colored tie because I didn't know the black tie rule. If I ever go to another one, I probably still won't buy a black tie just for the occasion.
I have lots. Feel free to borrow (for real). Though I hope nobody you know dies.

Last edited by Really Not All That Bright; 10-25-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:30 PM
Yorikke Yorikke is offline
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You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:31 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is online now
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Don't care why others dress down. Makes me look sharper.
  #23  
Old 10-11-2012, 03:40 PM
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My guess is role models. When I was a kid any adult you saw higher than waiter or ditch digger was in a suit. But then we started getting people like Bill Gates who hardly ever wore suits but were looked up to and made billions. When we moved to Silicon Valley 16 years ago we noticed that people here were a lot less dressed up than people in NJ - this is starting to spread.
Also, when people get away with it a lot follow. Today no one at the conference I attend wears a suit to give a paper. When I was General Chair I wore one to give the introductory remarks - no more. Even salesmen don't wear suits on sales calls any more.
  #24  
Old 10-12-2012, 08:38 AM
JKellyMap JKellyMap is online now
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My guess is role models. When I was a kid any adult you saw higher than waiter or ditch digger was in a suit...
The "waiter" part of this is now ironic, given that very often these days the waiters are the most sharply dressed people in a typical restaurant.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:47 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Dressing up takes time, effort and money invested into a persons image. The more they do that, the more they make a statement that they care about themselves. A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up. People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down. Bill Gates was never the type of guy that would ever dress up. He was a hippie nerd savant who had high intelligence and even though he is very smart he is very ignorant when it comes to style sense.

In my profession, I want people to know I am the boss. I am the leader of the pack. I want them to say "There is the Alpha Male!"

I have always taken pride in my clothing and having it pressed and dry cleaned and making sure it looks great. I shine my shoes a couple times a week.I make sure I groom myself at an exceptional level and smell nice. It makes me feel good and gives me confidence in myself. If I look in the mirror and look like I should be giving a speech in front of thousands, I will feel like a bad ass. I will feel power. Thats the way I look at it. Its all psychological.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 03:50 PM.
  #26  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:39 PM
leahcim leahcim is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Dressing up takes time, effort and money invested into a persons image. The more they do that, the more they make a statement that they care about themselves. A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up. People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down. Bill Gates was never the type of guy that would ever dress up. He was a hippie nerd savant who had high intelligence and even though he is very smart he is very ignorant when it comes to style sense.

In my profession, I want people to know I am the boss. I am the leader of the pack. I want them to say "There is the Alpha Male!"
I think exactly the opposite of this. Where I work, I have skills that are valued and I am valued for having those skills. Dressing down says, "look, I am not fucking around here, you are talking to the guy who gets stuff done, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I am wearing a tie". Leave the "uniform" for insecure people who need propping up.

I have to think this comes from late-90s tech culture, when computer skills became a lot more important all of the sudden, and a generation of college graduates rose rapidly through the ranks without being indoctrinated into "business culture" first.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:52 PM
suranyi suranyi is online now
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I think exactly the opposite of this. Where I work, I have skills that are valued and I am valued for having those skills. Dressing down says, "look, I am not fucking around here, you are talking to the guy who gets stuff done, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I am wearing a tie". Leave the "uniform" for insecure people who need propping up.

I have to think this comes from late-90s tech culture, when computer skills became a lot more important all of the sudden, and a generation of college graduates rose rapidly through the ranks without being indoctrinated into "business culture" first.
That's true, but the the guy in the suit is the guy who tells the guy like you what stuff to get done.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:00 PM
Blakeyrat Blakeyrat is offline
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That's true, but the the guy in the suit is the guy who tells the guy like you what stuff to get done.
I work in IT in Seattle. This isn't true in any company I've worked at. In fact, in my first professional position, I usually out-dressed the CEO. (And I was just wearing normal business casual attire.) The boss I most respect wore blue jeans and torn concert t-shirts from 15 years ago, every day.

It's not the 60s anymore.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:01 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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I work in IT in Seattle. This isn't true in any company I've worked at. In fact, in my first professional position, I usually out-dressed the CEO. (And I was just wearing normal business casual attire.) The boss I most respect wore blue jeans and torn concert t-shirts from 15 years ago, every day.

It's not the 60s anymore.
You are from the northwest. You won't find that to be true in New York.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:33 PM
suranyi suranyi is online now
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Originally Posted by Blakeyrat View Post
I work in IT in Seattle. This isn't true in any company I've worked at. In fact, in my first professional position, I usually out-dressed the CEO. (And I was just wearing normal business casual attire.) The boss I most respect wore blue jeans and torn concert t-shirts from 15 years ago, every day.

It's not the 60s anymore.
That's true. I work in the Bay Area, but our division is based in Orange County, and the company headquarters is in Maryland. Here we're all very casual, and that's true down south as well, but back east there are a lot of people in suits in upper management.

So it depends on the company and the local environment.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:09 PM
SirRay SirRay is offline
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That's true, but the the guy in the suit is the guy who tells the guy like you what stuff to get done.
Well, more commonly around these parts, likely the guy in the suit is either a security guard or insurance/investment salesman.
Heck, even politicians seems to be wearing more business casual nowadays
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:10 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Well, more commonly around these parts, likely the guy in the suit is either a security guard or insurance/investment salesman.
Heck, even politicians seems to be wearing more business casual nowadays
When they are campaigning in blue collar communities. In the White House they will always be dressed in a suit.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:31 AM
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That's true, but the the guy in the suit is the guy who tells the guy like you what stuff to get done.
Nope the CEO of my old company was famous for not wearing suits (except when meeting with world leaders) and saying that ties were only good for keeping soup off your buttons. The suits took orders from him. He's a billionaire, btw. Nobody in my management chain from me to him wore suits.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:53 PM
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I think exactly the opposite of this. Where I work, I have skills that are valued and I am valued for having those skills. Dressing down says, "look, I am not fucking around here, you are talking to the guy who gets stuff done, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I am wearing a tie". Leave the "uniform" for insecure people who need propping up.
Exactly. When you refer to someone as a "suit" it is not usually a complement.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
I have to think this comes from late-90s tech culture, when computer skills became a lot more important all of the sudden, and a generation of college graduates rose rapidly through the ranks without being indoctrinated into "business culture" first.
I thought it was late 70s -early 80s tech culture, especially Gates and Jobs, that ushered in casual attire at work.
  #36  
Old 10-13-2012, 12:16 PM
Bouncer Bouncer is offline
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Originally Posted by leahcim View Post
I think exactly the opposite of this. Where I work, I have skills that are valued and I am valued for having those skills. Dressing down says, "look, I am not fucking around here, you are talking to the guy who gets stuff done, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I am wearing a tie". Leave the "uniform" for insecure people who need propping up.

I have to think this comes from late-90s tech culture, when computer skills became a lot more important all of the sudden, and a generation of college graduates rose rapidly through the ranks without being indoctrinated into "business culture" first.
Stop taking thoughts out of my head before I have them! I would only add that the companies needed the nerdy people badly enough that they waived a lot of the usual rules, and it became the norm. I can remember a time when hiring perks included leased BMWs for kids straight off the street.

Regards,
-Bouncer-
  #37  
Old 10-13-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouncer View Post
Stop taking thoughts out of my head before I have them! I would only add that the companies needed the nerdy people badly enough that they waived a lot of the usual rules, and it became the norm. I can remember a time when hiring perks included leased BMWs for kids straight off the street.

Regards,
-Bouncer-
Except a lot of the companies got founded by the nerdly poorly dressed people. Jobs and the Woz weren't fashion plates from the beginning.
  #38  
Old 10-13-2012, 05:33 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is online now
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Jobs and the Woz
This fall, on ABC.
  #39  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Dressing up takes time, effort and money invested into a persons image. The more they do that, the more they make a statement that they care about themselves. A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up. People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down. Bill Gates was never the type of guy that would ever dress up. He was a hippie nerd savant who had high intelligence and even though he is very smart he is very ignorant when it comes to style sense.
Just because it is GQ and all, Gates was never a hippie. Gates went to Harvard. I lived in Cambridge at that time - there were hippie types hanging out in Harvard Square, but not in Harvard or MIT.
Quote:
In my profession, I want people to know I am the boss. I am the leader of the pack. I want them to say "There is the Alpha Male!"
In my profession clout comes from skill and knowledge. A suit wearing guy without these gets laughed at behind his back - or in front. Note that the PHB in Dilbert wears a suit - thus are suits considered in the tech industry.
  #40  
Old 10-12-2012, 03:30 AM
Spoons Spoons is online now
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As a lawyer, I must show up in court wearing a suit, tie, and dress shoes. The Court expects that I will be suitably attired to speak before it. It can order me home to change; and if I do not obey or if I protest, I can be held in contempt of court.

As a lawyer, I must attend upon my clients in the local jail wearing, at the very least, a sports jacket, tie, and slacks. My inmate clients expect their lawyer to look like a lawyer.

As a private citizen, I'm torn. Perhaps because I have to wear them so often, I don't like suits, jackets, and ties; but I will grant they have their place in the private sphere: weddings and funerals, for example. Still, if I could get away without them, I would; but at my age, not wearing a suit and tie at a funeral might be seen as disrespectful to the deceased. In fact, I was surprised to find, at the recent funeral of a relative, that my nephews not only refused to wear anything other than golf shirts and khakis, but that neither owned a suit, a jacket, or a tie. "They refuse to wear anything like that," their mother (my sister) said. I find this hard to believe, as I was forced into jackets and ties from a young age (weekly church, family gatherings, dinners at Grandma's, etc.), and I'm surprised that my sister wouldn't follow our mother's lead and force her kids into at least owning a jacket and tie for such occasions. I had to have such clothing and was not allowed to refuse to wear it on those occasions, but I guess my sister has other ideas. Times and generations change, I suppose.

I do like dressing up from time to time, and when my ex-wife and I went out for a fancy dinner, or to a company Christmas party, or similar; I always wore a jacket and tie. After all, she always wore a pretty outfit, and I wanted to look like I belonged with her. Besides, I have some nice ties that go well with my shirts and sport jackets--why not show them off?
  #41  
Old 10-12-2012, 09:38 AM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Dressing up takes time, effort and money invested into a persons image. The more they do that, the more they make a statement that they care about themselves.
I missed that somehow. All I get out of seeing somebody dressed up is a sense of sadness that they would probably be more comfortable in casual clothes.

Quote:
A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up.
And a true leader leads. A leader doesn't have to wear a leader uniform to prove he is the leader.
Quote:
People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down. Bill Gates was never the type of guy that would ever dress up. He was a hippie nerd savant who had high intelligence and even though he is very smart he is very ignorant when it comes to style sense.
You statement disproves itself. Proves the statement I made above. A true leader simply leads. Put a buffoon in a suit and it try to call it a leader and you get the pointy haired guy in the Dilbert comic strip.

Quote:
In my profession, I want people to know I am the boss. I am the leader of the pack. I want them to say "There is the Alpha Male!"
My guess is that your "team" follows you because you lead and not due to your spiffy appearance.

Quote:
I have always taken pride in my clothing and having it pressed and dry cleaned and making sure it looks great. I shine my shoes a couple times a week.I make sure I groom myself at an exceptional level and smell nice. It makes me feel good and gives me confidence in myself. If I look in the mirror and look like I should be giving a speech in front of thousands, I will feel like a bad ass. I will feel power. Thats the way I look at it. Its all psychological.
Your only point that I agree with. Clothes help you be want you want to be. If nice clothes give you a mental boost then go with it. In my case and the case of others we neither lead nor follow based on appearance.

I'm an owner of the company I work in. I am sitting at my desk now in my cargo shorts and T-shirt. I wrote the dress code that I will share with you in it's entirety. My apologies if it is too verbose -

Don't come to work stinky!

Everyone here strictly follows that code.

Last edited by BubbaDog; 10-12-2012 at 09:38 AM.
  #42  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:50 PM
suranyi suranyi is online now
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Your thoughts on this?

Only in todays society can you show up to dinner at a five star steakhouse and have someone be surprised to see someone dressed up in a suit.

Same thing goes for a funeral.

I think the only time people find it normal to see someone in a suit is at a wedding.

What factors have caused the average person to want to dress down to functions that once upon a time, you knew you had to dress up?

Also when did dressing up become a chore? People should feel good about putting on a suit and looking sharp.

Nowdays people complain more than not when they are told there is a dress code. It blows my mind really to hear people whine about having to dress up.
I would agree that one rarely sees people in suits at restaurants nowadays. But they're still pretty common at funerals. I was at one just a few years ago and most men were in suits.

Actually, I don't mind wearing a suit -- occasionally. A couple of months ago my wife and I celebrated our anniversary at a very expensive restaurant that is one of the few that still requires men to wear jackets. And I'm talking really expensive -- about $100 per person, without drinks.

But I'm glad I don't have to wear one every day.
  #43  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:56 PM
flano1 flano1 is offline
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Blame the Baby Boomers!

No more Sunday-Going-To-Meeting-Clothes for us!

I remember reacting with a lot of angst when my mother would insist that we kids put on good clothes to go downtown to do the shopping.

" What would the neighbours think? ". Harumph, I say.

So when we became all growed up and those over 30 faded away we just wore what we always wanted.

As an aside, you'll notice a vast array of hairstyles and lengths; nobody cares as long as you are clean and don't pollute your natural bodily essences!
  #44  
Old 10-11-2012, 05:48 PM
mbh mbh is online now
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Originally Posted by flano1 View Post
Blame the Baby Boomers!

No more Sunday-Going-To-Meeting-Clothes for us!
This, but I think for slightly different reasons.

Up until World War II, the vast majority of the population did hard physical labor. They spend most of their week wearing khakis or dungarees. For social occasions, they dressed up. The suit and tie was a welcome escape from the weekday routine.

In the 1950s and 1960s, many people moved up to the middle class, into white-collar jobs, where the suit and tie were part of the weekday routine. So casual clothes became the escape from workday drudgery.
  #45  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:56 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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If I go out and spend money on nice clothes, I am gonna wear them. Get my moneys worth out of them. Then I will go out and buy some new clothes that are nice, and wear those as much as I can.

If I invest money into something, I don't want it sitting in a closet for months on end. I will make sure to wear them when I can. If I go to a steakhouse where the waiters are in tuxes, that tells me that wearing a suit is more than acceptable. Why would you own dress clothes and not wear them? When you invest money into something, get your moneys worth out of them. Thats they way I look at it. Find places where you can go to do this.

Thats why when I go out , I go to nice places. Cause I invest money into slacks, dress shirts, and suits.

You don't want to open your closet and see that moths ate holes in your clothes do you? Also let me tell ya something.

Why in the world do people find that dressing up is hard work? If looking sharp is hard work or uncomfortable, then that is really bazarre to me.. Just my two cents.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 05:00 PM.
  #46  
Old 10-11-2012, 05:02 PM
Great Antibob Great Antibob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
If I go out and spend money on nice clothes, I am gonna wear them.
Ok, so that works for you.

Why should that mean it works for everybody else?

Rather than the question you originally asked, you are explicitly stating, "Why don't other people share MY values and what's wrong with THEM?", which is an entirely different kettle of fish.
  #47  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:07 PM
RaftPeople RaftPeople is offline
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Originally Posted by Great Antibob View Post
Ok, so that works for you.

Why should that mean it works for everybody else?

Rather than the question you originally asked, you are explicitly stating, "Why don't other people share MY values and what's wrong with THEM?", which is an entirely different kettle of fish.
I love these threads on the SDMB. Other entertaining ones:
1 - Why do you like tattoos (as in you shouldn't)
2 - Why do you like parties (as in your shouldn't)
3 - Why so you like sports (as in you shouldn't)
4 - table manners
5 - car you drive
6 - etc.


I just don't understand how anyone can like the color blue. It makes no sense. Red is so much more colorful, it has heart and warmth, blue is like a frozen landscape buried in the depths of time after nuclear holocaust.

Everyone should like red just like I do.
  #48  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:48 PM
ZenBeam ZenBeam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaftPeople View Post
I just don't understand how anyone can like the color blue. It makes no sense. Red is so much more colorful, it has heart and warmth, blue is like a frozen landscape buried in the depths of time after nuclear holocaust.

Everyone should like red just like I do.
I think you meant to put this part in a new thread.





(Cause that would be awesome.)
  #49  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:14 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Related thread, only with fewer responses.
  #50  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:57 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Clothing is much less expensive and less functional now.
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