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  #251  
Old 07-19-2017, 08:18 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Originally Posted by marshmallow View Post
On mainstream lib blogs, especially the comment sections, they often tell themselves they're the real patriots. They like to point out how Republicans vote down healthcare for veterans or boo gay soldiers or don't support rape victims in the military. I don't know if they actually buy into this stuff or it's a meta-reaction from the Cold War and War on Terror.
Perhaps they point this stuff out because Republicans do in fact vote down healthcare for veterans, boo gay soldiers and fail to support rape victims in the military.

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Calling patriotism that goes too far "jingoism" reminds me of how when people want to defend capitalism ruining everything they call it "crony capitalism."
Since "jingoism" is defined as "extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy", calling patriotism that goes too far "jingoism" seems fairly accurate to me.

I'm not sure why it bothers you when liberals say things that are objectively true, but there you go. I'm also not sure why giving big piles of money to the Pentagon is considered supporting our troops but trying to actually provide real support for them isn't.
  #252  
Old 07-19-2017, 11:41 AM
skdo23 skdo23 is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
In my experience, confederate flag wavers consider themselves highly patriotic, in general. They also, in my experience, generally don't believe they are in any way racist. I find both opinions, self identified, equally unlikely to be true.
Nothing demonstrates one's patriotism like waving the flag of a country we once went to war with.
  #253  
Old 07-21-2017, 12:25 PM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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Well apparently thew new slogan, chosen after "months of polling and internal deliberations among the House Democratic caucus" (according to Vox Congressional reporter) is....






drum roll...




"A Better Deal: Better Skills, Better Jobs, Better Wages"

Democrats are as tone-deaf as ever.

Last edited by Okrahoma; 07-21-2017 at 12:26 PM.
  #254  
Old 07-21-2017, 12:47 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
Well apparently thew new slogan, chosen after "months of polling and internal deliberations among the House Democratic caucus" (according to Vox Congressional reporter) is....

drum roll...

"A Better Deal: Better Skills, Better Jobs, Better Wages"

Democrats are as tone-deaf as ever.
I'll admit that it doesn't really roll of the tongue, but which of those do you object to?
  #255  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:01 PM
pjacks pjacks is offline
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At least it's an economy-focused slogan, that certainly wasn't a given.

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  #256  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:01 PM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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I'll admit that it doesn't really roll of the tongue, but which of those do you object to?
The "doesn't really roll off the tongue" part. They don't understand what a "slogan" means. It doesn't mean "cram a policy paper into one sentence".
  #257  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:04 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
The "doesn't really roll off the tongue" part. They don't understand what a "slogan" means. It doesn't mean "cram a policy paper into one sentence".
It worked for "Make America Great Again."

And that was nonsense.
  #258  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:20 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
The "doesn't really roll off the tongue" part. They don't understand what a "slogan" means. It doesn't mean "cram a policy paper into one sentence".
My favorite bumper sticker slogan is "Good policy doesn't fit on a bumper sticker." or even a recursively self referential and self contradictory statement "Only bad policy fits on a bumper sticker."

And that's not really a policy paper, a policy paper explains how those things are to be achieved. One of clinton's (many) faults on the camping trail is that she would read a policy paper to her audience. They would nod off, and then complain that she never addressed any of the issues that she spoke about, while repeating over and over the one line out of context that makes it look like it means the opposite of what it says.

So, the slogan, while maybe a bit unwieldy, is not a policy paper, not even a policy. It is a goal to be achieved through policies.

This may not be obvious to those who think that Make America Great Again is a policy, but that too, is just a slogan.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 07-21-2017 at 01:23 PM.
  #259  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:26 PM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
This may not be obvious to those who think that Make America Great Again is a policy, but that too, is just a slogan.
Of course it's a slogan. But it's a snappy (and yugely successful) one. As opposed to the ridiculous clunker of "A Better Deal: Better Skills, Better Jobs, Better Wages".

But please, Democrats, go with that.
  #260  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:32 PM
pjacks pjacks is offline
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It also unfortunately will lead Trump to inevitably mock the slogan with comments like"A better deal?! I'm the king of deals, I wrote the Art of the Deal, no one makes deals like I do, blah blah" and on and on until the midterms. Maybe not the best choice.

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  #261  
Old 07-21-2017, 01:44 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
Of course it's a slogan. But it's a snappy (and yugely successful) one. As opposed to the ridiculous clunker of "A Better Deal: Better Skills, Better Jobs, Better Wages".

But please, Democrats, go with that.
Personally, if I were to go with a slogan, it'd be simple.

"We can do better."
  #262  
Old 07-21-2017, 06:54 PM
marshmallow marshmallow is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
Maybe they think the FDR reference is a sop to the left.

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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Perhaps they point this stuff out because Republicans do in fact vote down healthcare for veterans, boo gay soldiers and fail to support rape victims in the military.
I thought these were well known examples, but thanks for the assist.

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I'm also not sure why giving big piles of money to the Pentagon is considered supporting our troops but trying to actually provide real support for them isn't.
Probably because America has a violent, pro-war culture. They even "declare war" on domestic issues like drugs and poverty and militarize their police. One could argue picking up litter on the side of the road or volunteering at a soup kitchen is patriotic, but that's not generally how it's used.
  #263  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:38 AM
Johnny Ace Johnny Ace is offline
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The place it came from is pretty stupid, but I like the sentiment:

Make America America Again.
  #264  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:52 AM
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A lot of these slogans, including the one they went with, seem like silly riffs to contrast the current administration. I think that's a bad idea in general and the Democratic Party should instead craft a message that doesn't lend itself to being a comparison to their opponents.
  #265  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:19 PM
ShadowFacts ShadowFacts is offline
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I don't think there's anything particularly bad about "A Better Deal." I could do without the sub-title, but I suspect that won't be emphasized on the stickers, t-shirts and ugly hats. I mean, it's not a barn-burner, I admit, but neither is "Make America Great Again." In fact, it's incredibly similar to that. It's a purposefully broad notion that can apply in a lot of areas - it's what you do with it that matters.

And I think we can all agree that it's light years better than Jeb!
  #266  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:45 PM
eunoia eunoia is offline
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Originally Posted by pjacks View Post
I agree, but how to you encompass all that in a catchy slogan?
Tumescent For A New America!

Edit: Holy crap, you weren't kidding, these are awful slogans and graphics.

Last edited by eunoia; 07-31-2017 at 01:49 PM.
  #267  
Old 08-11-2017, 09:34 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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It appears to be even worse than some of us envisioned in this thread:

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Democrats try to co-opt populist rage. Hilarity ensues.

Washington was abuzz this week with talk about the new Democratic agenda, A Better Deal, which is suddenly dominating news coverage and captivating voters with a plan to remake the American economy, sending Republicans scrambling for a viable platform of their own in advance of the midterm elections.

No, not really. I just wanted to see if you were paying attention on the beach.

<snip>

The slogan, which apparently took months of focus-grouping to perfect, rather than the five seconds of idle thought while doing the laundry that you would think it required, evokes yet again memories of the Roosevelt and Truman administrations, which remain powerful in exactly two places in America: nursing homes and Democratic leadership meetings.
Emphasis added.

I did lose a bit of respect for Matt Bai with his incessant hammering at Hillary during the campaign, but this was pretty funny and did have what I thought as some cogent analysis.
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