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  #1751  
Old 03-30-2020, 07:12 PM
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Some of those nations/people, like Zimbabwe, have a lot of things to worry about and have to prioritize:
Quote:
“We are already ruined. What more harm can coronavirus do?” Irene Kampira asked as she sorted secondhand clothes at a bustling market in a poor suburb of Zimbabwe’s capital, Harare.

People in one of the world’s most devastated nations are choosing daily survival over measures to protect themselves from a virus that “might not even kill us,” Kampira said.

Even as the country enters a “total lockdown” over the virus on Monday, social distancing is pushed aside in the struggle to obtain food, cash, cheap public transport, even clean water. The World Health Organization’s recommended virus precautions seem far-fetched for many of Zimbabwe’s 15 million people.

“It’s better to get coronavirus while looking for money than to sit at home and die from hunger,” Kampira said, to loud approval from other vendors.
Quote:
Few health workers are available as doctors and nurses strike.

“There is a difference between being heroic and being suicidal,” said Tawanda Zvakada, president of the Zimbabwe Hospital Doctors Association.

Health workers described a lack of disinfectants, sanitizers and even water at hospitals.
Quote:
“What is happening in Zimbabwe is very scary. It’s like we are playing cards. Its either you win coronavirus or you win starvation,” said Tinashe Moyo at the supermarket. “I am very scared.”
  #1752  
Old 03-30-2020, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Any video of a gym full of body-builder-types singing Rodgers & Hammerstein, would be an instant hit on YouTube. People are starved for entertainment!
It's not Rodgers and Hammerstein, but how about this?

Or maybe this?
  #1753  
Old 03-30-2020, 07:42 PM
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It's not Rodgers and Hammerstein, but how about this?

Or maybe this?
Ah, the classics!
  #1754  
Old 03-30-2020, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
You should find this shocking and more than a little creepy, too. (Politico)
I was just talking to my brother in NSW.Australia. His Chief Medical Officer can detain any person in any place for any period by simple declaration. It's not a power that is often used, but it's there.
  #1755  
Old 03-30-2020, 07:50 PM
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Can someone help me with stats, how many people live in my state of Ohio, how many are ill, and how many have died? Also, what did the mypillow guy say at the presser?
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  #1756  
Old 03-30-2020, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SuntanLotion View Post
Can someone help me with stats, how many people live in my state of Ohio,
Dude. Have you tried just Googling Ohio? Or Wikipedia?
Quote:
how many are ill, and how many have died?
Here's the death info for the U.S. and for each of the states.
Quote:
Also, what did the mypillow guy say at the presser?
Here ya go.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 03-30-2020 at 08:05 PM.
  #1757  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:19 PM
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For psychonaut to thank you for your updates (and definitely a case of do as I say and not as I do).
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  #1758  
Old 03-30-2020, 10:42 PM
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Wow, seriously?
  #1759  
Old 03-30-2020, 11:08 PM
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785,779 confirmed infections
37,816 dead
165,607 recovered

In the US:

164,253 confirmed infections
3,166 dead
5,506 recovered

Yesterday's numbers for comparison:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
722,196 confirmed infections
33,976 dead
151,766 recovered

In the US*:

142,178 confirmed infections
2,484 dead
4,559 recovered
  #1760  
Old 03-30-2020, 11:23 PM
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Reports are coming out of Wuhan that the death toll was not 2,500 like the authorities said, but more like 40,000 or possibly even higher. I don't doubt it at all.

https://news.yahoo.com/wuhan-residen...164859600.html
  #1761  
Old 03-30-2020, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Reports are coming out of Wuhan that the death toll was not 2,500 like the authorities said, but more like 40,000 or possibly even higher. I don't doubt it at all.

https://news.yahoo.com/wuhan-residen...164859600.html
At this point it's a bit "so what" re China. We didn't trust their stats in the first place, and we have the rest of the world for statistics about infections, deaths and so forth. The only interesting bit is: did China actually contain Covid, or are there ongoing large breakouts? That would be something quite hard to cover up, and quite useful information.
  #1762  
Old Yesterday, 12:34 AM
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A member of the New Jersey National Guard has died. A civilian contractor and a military dependent have also died.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/30/pent...ronavirus.html
  #1763  
Old Yesterday, 03:32 AM
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The San Francisco Bay Area counties were among the first in the nation, on March 16, to declare that shelter-in-place order. Now, two weeks later, there are beginning to be signs that it's working. The exploding case counts apparently aren't exploding quite as fast as otherwise predicted. In another two weeks, we'll have a better idea how it's working.

Coronavirus slowing in Bay Area? Experts track data to see whether shelter in place is working, San Francisco Chronicle, March 28, 2020.

The Bay Area shutdown, originally scheduled to end on April 7, has been extended to May 1.

Berkeley, Bay Area to extend shelter-in-place order until May 1
  #1764  
Old Yesterday, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
I find this shocking and more than a little creepy.
You should. Many European governments have declared a state of emergency but none of them have decided that the best way of dealing with it is to grant someone dictatorial powers indefinitely.

Even before the current crisis, Hungary has been increasingly viewed by other members of the EU as a pariah state. Prime minister Viktor Orbán, once the West's darling of post-Soviet Hungary, has used his supermajority to push through a number of very questionable and controversial laws and constitutional amendments. These include restricting election campaigning to state-controlled media outlets, reforming the electoral process in a way that gives a clear advantage to Orbán's own party (think gerrymandering, but procedural rather than geographical), putting the Hungarian Academy of Sciences (of which I am a public-body member) under direct political control and dissolving its research institutions, effectively shutting the door to all asylum seekers, revoking the accreditation of degree programs (such as gender studies) that are deemed too "liberal", shutting down entire universities for the same reason, retroactively lowering the mandatory retirement age of judges in order to pack the courts with new and loyal appointees, and even removing the word "Republic" from the name of the country. All this has earned Hungary a formal censure by the European Parliament for "a breach of the values on which the Union is founded", suspension of Orbán's party from its membership in the EU-wide European People's Party, and hundreds of complaints to and dozens of unfavourable judgments by the European Court of Human Rights.

There is therefore a well-founded fear among Hungarian opposition parties and the rest of the EU that Orbán is not going to play nice with his new powers.

ETA: I see Hungary is already throwing mud at the detractors of its new dictatorship. The foreign minister has just posted on Facebook that the "international liberal media" is attacking Hungary "because the democratically elected Hungarian Parliament has given us the powers to protect our country from the worldwide pandemic".

Last edited by psychonaut; Yesterday at 03:39 AM.
  #1765  
Old Yesterday, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
785,779 confirmed infections
37,816 dead
165,607 recovered

In the US:

164,253 confirmed infections
3,166 dead
5,506 recovered

Yesterday's numbers for comparison:
Maybe, just maybe, we're starting to turn the corner on this thing. Apparently yesterday's initial death totals for Sunday were low due to weekend reporting issues, and Worldometer has revised the totals (numbers below).

But the big news is that the Sunday + Monday death total (936) is essentially the same as the Friday + Saturday death total (925). (The individual daily numbers are 400, 525, 363, 573.) I expected the total for Monday alone to hit 1000, and I can tell you I'm quite happy to be wrong.

The people who are dying now were probably infected 2-3 weeks (or more) ago, so this would be the result of actions taken during the second and maybe the third week of March. And we were really just starting to respond widely at that point.
  #1766  
Old Yesterday, 06:54 AM
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I really have to applaud Germany. Most of my income for the year comes over the summer working as a kid's overnight camp director, so I was facing financial catastrophe. They quickly approved and implemented a financial aid package just a few days ago granting 5000 bucks for freelancers and the self-employed, which today appeared in my bank account. Definitely a weight off my shoulders.
  #1767  
Old Yesterday, 09:26 AM
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Top Moscow doctor positive, shook Putin’s hand!
Quote:
The chief doctor of Moscow’s top hospital for coronavirus patients says he’s tested positive, a statement that comes a week after his encounter with President Vladimir Putin.

Putin visited the Kommunarka hospital a week ago and met with its chief doctor Denis Protsenko. The doctor says he’s feeling OK and self-isolated in his office.

There was no immediate comment from the Kremlin on whether Putin had undergone a coronavirus test following Protsenko’s announcement.

The president wore a business suit and shook hands with Protsenko before the meeting, drawing a buzz on social networks over his neglect of safety precautions.
  #1768  
Old Yesterday, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
It's not Rodgers and Hammerstein, but how about this?

Or maybe this?
Not Rodgers and Hammerstein, but here’s Randy Rainbow parodying Adelaide’s Lament from Guys and Dolls.

https://youtu.be/-CCW4Xnp_sQ
  #1769  
Old Yesterday, 10:24 AM
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Folks, can we have a separate thread for this kind of stuff? Please?
  #1770  
Old Yesterday, 10:39 AM
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The thread is a fine thing, and the information on "breaking news" from those on the ground in different regions valuable for all of us in real time ... but do you really think future historians will be looking HERE for documentation of the facts? Really?
As someone who does research at a history museum, absolutely . The internet is already life changing for being able to access so much more information and many more resources without having to travel to other places. And blogs, message boards and social media are basically the modern equivalent to diaries and correspondence.
  #1771  
Old Yesterday, 10:43 AM
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At this point it's a bit "so what" re China. We didn't trust their stats in the first place, and we have the rest of the world for statistics about infections, deaths and so forth. The only interesting bit is: did China actually contain Covid, or are there ongoing large breakouts? That would be something quite hard to cover up, and quite useful information.
Man, I completely disagree that it's "so what". We need every bit of accurate information about this virus as possible in order to try to fight it. The death count being that much higher would mean Italy (and Spain) isn't necessarily an extreme outlier and that would change a lot of calculations and projections.

Last edited by zweisamkeit; Yesterday at 10:44 AM.
  #1772  
Old Yesterday, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
You should. Many European governments have declared a state of emergency but none of them have decided that the best way of dealing with it is to grant someone dictatorial powers indefinitely.

Even before the current crisis, Hungary has been increasingly viewed by other members of the EU as a pariah state. Prime minister Viktor Orbán, once the West's darling of post-Soviet Hungary, has used his supermajority to push through a number of very questionable and controversial laws and constitutional amendments. These include restricting election campaigning to state-controlled media outlets, reforming the electoral process in a way that gives a clear advantage to Orbán's own party (think gerrymandering, but procedural rather than geographical), putting the Hungarian Academy of Sciences (of which I am a public-body member) under direct political control and dissolving its research institutions, effectively shutting the door to all asylum seekers, revoking the accreditation of degree programs (such as gender studies) that are deemed too "liberal", shutting down entire universities for the same reason, retroactively lowering the mandatory retirement age of judges in order to pack the courts with new and loyal appointees, and even removing the word "Republic" from the name of the country. All this has earned Hungary a formal censure by the European Parliament for "a breach of the values on which the Union is founded", suspension of Orbán's party from its membership in the EU-wide European People's Party, and hundreds of complaints to and dozens of unfavourable judgments by the European Court of Human Rights.

There is therefore a well-founded fear among Hungarian opposition parties and the rest of the EU that Orbán is not going to play nice with his new powers.

ETA: I see Hungary is already throwing mud at the detractors of its new dictatorship. The foreign minister has just posted on Facebook that the "international liberal media" is attacking Hungary "because the democratically elected Hungarian Parliament has given us the powers to protect our country from the worldwide pandemic".
Thanks for fleshing out the details of this development. I was not especially aware of Orban and did not realize Hungary was in such a state. I can see how such a move could Potentially lead to strict "get tough" measures to control the outbreak, but in the context of your description it doesn't sound like that's where it will end (or maybe even start).

It is weird to see the "war on liberals" taken to such an extreme since I don't really accept "liberals" as a valid category at all- I think the concept is mostly a demonized, fictional foil. Nobody really meets the description of "liberal" as told by liberal-haters. But it is simple and focuses the mind on partisan us-vs-them ideas which can be useful to politicians.

Doesn't sound like they are to the point of burning books, but the stifling of research and corruption of the electoral process is... creepy.

Last edited by Try2B Comprehensive; Yesterday at 11:32 AM.
  #1773  
Old Yesterday, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zweisamkeit View Post
Man, I completely disagree that it's "so what". We need every bit of accurate information about this virus as possible in order to try to fight it. The death count being that much higher would mean Italy (and Spain) isn't necessarily an extreme outlier and that would change a lot of calculations and projections.
Yes. If it turns out that China's death toll is ten times higher, and that people are still dropping, then perhaps we should not look to China as a model for fighting the virus.
  #1774  
Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
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Or Morgenpost. It has an interactive map which is probably easier to read at a glance.
I think Tagesspiegel's interactive map is significantly better.
  #1775  
Old Yesterday, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zweisamkeit View Post
Man, I completely disagree that it's "so what". We need every bit of accurate information about this virus as possible in order to try to fight it. The death count being that much higher would mean Italy (and Spain) isn't necessarily an extreme outlier and that would change a lot of calculations and projections.
Look, either you believe the information China is putting out, or you don't. If you don't, there's nothing that can fix that. If China came out this week and said, "hey, we were under reporting, here's the real figures!" would you suddenly believe those figures? Of course not. So we already have useful information or we don't, and if it's the latter there's nothing that can fix that. That's, "so what?"
  #1776  
Old Yesterday, 05:04 PM
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In the UK, Dominic Cummings (Brexit architect, advisor to Boris Johnson) has caught Covid-19.
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  #1777  
Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM
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Today in Austria:
  • Yesterday I reported that supermarkets will be distributing free face masks beginning on Wednesday, and it will be required to wear these in the stores. The chancellor subsequently explained in an interview last night that it is his intention for people to eventually start wearing these masks in all public places, not just in supermarkets. Supermarkets were chosen as the first place to start distributing and wearing the masks, because almost everyone goes shopping at one point, and because the supermarkets have an established supply and distribution chain. The idea behind wearing masks is not to protect the wearer against infection, but rather to help prevent people who are (perhaps unwittingly) infectious from spreading the virus when speaking, coughing, or sneezing.

    The chancellor says that wearing masks is going to be the "new normal" and that supermarkets will be the place where we must all learn and practise doing this. He said that before the crisis, he was often quizzical, and even irritated, at all the Asian tourists in Vienna who wore face masks, but after speaking directly with Asian politicians and health experts, he has come to understand and embrace their use.
  • Besides masks, the government has introduced further health restrictions regarding shopping: First, when going shopping, you must go alone. No more family trips to the supermarket. Second, surfaces touched by customers, such as shopping cart handles, must be disinfected after use. (I've already witnessed some cashiers wiping down debit/credit card readers after customers make a PIN transaction.) Third, all cashiers must be protected with plexiglass screens, though most shops I've visited in the past week have already installed these. Fourth, stores must take measures to enforce social distancing, such as only allowing in a certain number of customers per square metre of floor space, and marking spacing lines in front of the tills.
  • The country's classrooms remain closed and the education minister says they will remain so indefinitely. A survey of parents indicate that 90% are in favour of this measure. Schools are providing children with distance learning material, and 80% of parents report satisfaction with it. The education ministry is also providing funds to families who need to buy distance learning infrastructure (laptops, etc.) for their children. However, concerns are being raised about the social development of students in isolation. The government is therefore recruiting 900 psychologists to contact and work directly with students.
  • As Austria's intensive care beds are not yet at full capacity, the government has agreed to take on some patients from other countries. Three critical patients from France have been transferred to Salzburg for treatment, and five from Italy have been accepted by Tyrol.
  • The government is performing antibody tests on doctors, and in the future will expand this to other health care workers. These tests are intended to determine which people have already been exposed to and recovered from the virus and are presumably immune to further infections.
  • For some time now, certain districts in the country have been placed under a strict quarantine, with nobody allowed to enter or leave the district. In the past few days, some of these quarantines have been lifted, but as of today this stricter quarantine has been extended to some new districts (Altenmarkt, Zell am See and Saalbach).
  • Current statistics: 10,180 confirmed infections, 128 dead, 1095 recovered. 179,000 people have registered as unemployed since 15 March. Dozens of major companies are taking advantage of the government's aid package to lay off most of their workforce while still paying 80% of their salaries.
  #1778  
Old Yesterday, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zweisamkeit View Post
Man, I completely disagree that it's "so what". We need every bit of accurate information about this virus as possible in order to try to fight it. The death count being that much higher would mean Italy (and Spain) isn't necessarily an extreme outlier and that would change a lot of calculations and projections.
OK, but what would we do differently if we found out the Chinese cases and deaths were, say, 5x as high as they've reported?
  #1779  
Old Yesterday, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
Today in Austria:
  • Yesterday I reported that supermarkets will be distributing free face masks beginning on Wednesday, and it will be required to wear these in the stores. The chancellor subsequently explained in an interview last night that it is his intention for people to eventually start wearing these masks in all public places, not just in supermarkets. Supermarkets were chosen as the first place to start distributing and wearing the masks, because almost everyone goes shopping at one point, and because the supermarkets have an established supply and distribution chain. The idea behind wearing masks is not to protect the wearer against infection, but rather to help prevent people who are (perhaps unwittingly) infectious from spreading the virus when speaking, coughing, or sneezing.

    The chancellor says that wearing masks is going to be the "new normal" and that supermarkets will be the place where we must all learn and practise doing this. He said that before the crisis, he was often quizzical, and even irritated, at all the Asian tourists in Vienna who wore face masks, but after speaking directly with Asian politicians and health experts, he has come to understand and embrace their use.
  • Besides masks, the government has introduced further health restrictions regarding shopping: First, when going shopping, you must go alone. No more family trips to the supermarket. Second, surfaces touched by customers, such as shopping cart handles, must be disinfected after use. (I've already witnessed some cashiers wiping down debit/credit card readers after customers make a PIN transaction.) Third, all cashiers must be protected with plexiglass screens, though most shops I've visited in the past week have already installed these. Fourth, stores must take measures to enforce social distancing, such as only allowing in a certain number of customers per square metre of floor space, and marking spacing lines in front of the tills.

    ....
Both of these are very sensible!

I don't understand the "CDC is discussing/thinking about telling people to wear masks..." What's to discuss or think about? Why delay? Just tell people to do it! NOT the professional masks that health care workers must have, but homemade masks, painter's masks, SOME kind of cover over your nose and mouth. Are they going to "discuss" it for two more weeks and then tell people NOT to wear them? If they're ultimately going to tell people to use masks, then the sooner the better!
  #1780  
Old Yesterday, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Both of these are very sensible!

I don't understand the "CDC is discussing/thinking about telling people to wear masks..." What's to discuss or think about? Why delay?
Because they can't just do it because Trump. Heads would roll if they did it on their own, and he'd reverse the policy for who knows how long. So they've got to get Trump warmed up to the idea, and put him in the position of taking credit when he finally agrees.
  #1781  
Old Yesterday, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
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OK, but what would we do differently if we found out the Chinese cases and deaths were, say, 5x as high as they've reported?
Smack their leader upside the head and tell him that ain't cool.
  #1782  
Old Yesterday, 07:26 PM
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Alameda and nearby Bay Area counties just extended the shelter in place to May 1. Sorry no link, I got a text.
  #1783  
Old Yesterday, 07:32 PM
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Alameda and nearby Bay Area counties just extended the shelter in place to May 1. Sorry no link, I got a text.
oops, make that May 3.
  #1784  
Old Yesterday, 08:52 PM
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Austria’s recommendations sound sensible and achievable. Unfortunately, I fear that Americans will resist any required actions.
  #1785  
Old Yesterday, 11:15 PM
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858,892 confirmed infections
42,158 dead
178,100 recovered

In the US:

188,578 confirmed infections
3,890 dead
7,251 recovered

Yesterday's numbers for comparison:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
785,779 confirmed infections
37,816 dead
165,607 recovered

In the US:

164,253 confirmed infections
3,166 dead
5,506 recovered
  #1786  
Old Today, 03:32 AM
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For psychonaut to thank you for your updates (and definitely a case of do as I say and not as I do).
You're welcome! And thanks for the reminder of how beautiful Salzburg is—we took a short holiday trip there only a couple months ago. Hopefully we can all get back to singing the original tunes soon, leaving educational parodies such as this a distant memory…
  #1787  
Old Today, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
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Alameda and nearby Bay Area counties just extended the shelter in place to May 1. Sorry no link, I got a text.
Post #1763, above, including some links. (That was tentative, as of yesterday. What, they made it May 3 now?)
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