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Old 07-02-2019, 02:43 PM
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In general, why is the college "party culture" viewed as negative?


Is it the inappropriate behaviors that may occur from it? Or is it the illegal aspect of underage drinking? I think it's a mix of several factors if you ask me.

Now, I understand that partying has it's pros & cons, & even though some my posts revolved around partying, it's not for everyone. Some people would rather stay in, watch a movie, or go out to eat. Furthermore, even going on an "adventure" throughout the mall is still a fun option for some.

Overall, the main focus of college is to get an education. IMO, the administration does a good job of letting their students know that there's more to life than partying & drinking, & there is: People just have different interests & opinions on partying, & I respect them for following their interests rather than trying to "fit in" with the partiers.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:07 PM
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"In general" is a bad start to a discussion. If you want serious debate you would have better success if you start by giving some concrete examples of the ways college "party culture" is viewed as a negative. Opinion pieces, articles, angry emails from your parents, anything other than a vague impression of society.

You've already given the general answer in your post, but perhaps that was the purpose? You've partied so hard you just felt you needed to counterbalance by sharing a three paragraph college essay with the world?

Last edited by naita; 07-02-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:20 PM
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In general, why is the college "party culture" viewed as negative?

...Overall, the main focus of college is to get an education...
The college "party culture" is viewed as negative because for some students (especially those who are immature, unfocused, unmotivated, or who haven't learned how to moderate their behavior), it can lead to them not completing their education and obtaining a degree. This puts them in an even worse situation than if they'd never gone to college, because they then have the debt (which is virtually impossible to erase) without the degree.

Plus, they are now in the habit of frequently partying, which makes it even tougher for them to succeed in the future, whether it's completing their studies or getting a job.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:29 PM
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The college "party culture" is viewed as negative because for some students (especially those who are immature, unfocused, unmotivated, or who haven't learned how to moderate their behavior), it can lead to them not completing their education and obtaining a degree.
This. it's irresponsible. Party culture is a bunch of unsupervised kids spending someone else's money on ephemeral things.

When I was a freshman, there were like 20 freshmen engineering students on my dorm floor. One and only one graduated in engineering. Most didn't make it past their first year. I'd love to know what happened to them. Do they look back fondly their time drinking and getting stoned all day?

Some look on party culture as a waste of time and money. I view it as a waste of potential. Some just view it from the "prig" perspective - Why should other people enjoy themselves, when I'm not?

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 07-02-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:26 PM
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Overall, the main focus of college is to get an education.
While this is true, for most students going away to college is their first time living away from their parent's home and being left mostly completely to their own devices in the partially controlled environment of the college campus. In that respect college is not just about an academic education, the forced self-guided social and "adulting" education is arguably just as important. When a young person takes this newfound freedom and independence as a license to act irresponsibly, it's a concern. That's not to say partying does not have an appropriate and important place in the college experience, but it can certainly be taken too far.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:29 PM
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:41 PM
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Let's see: fights, rape, unintended pregnancy, STDs, dropping out of school, kicked out of school, ER visits, taking longer to graduate, lower GPA, jail, fines, death. I think that about covers it, although I'm sure I probably missed something. Most students manage to avoid all or most of these pitfalls, but not all do.

That said, I don't think college party culture is viewed entirely as a negative, it's just a matter of knowing that bad things can happen as a result and therefore making sure you've prepared your college-bound kid to know what level is acceptable and how to avoid bad situations.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:56 PM
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I think it's all that stuff, plus a certain recognition from older and wiser folks that maybe newly minted college students aren't terribly well equipped to function in that particular environment.

I mean, our partying changed significantly between our first year and our last- we didn't necessarily drink less, but it was more... controlled? Planned? Deliberate? I mean, as a freshman, it was frequently seeing what you could scare up, since booze was (relative to later years) hard to come by, and in varying types and quantities. When we became of age, we tried out a lot of bars and clubs. But by our final year or two, we knew where we liked, and generally speaking, had matured somewhat into a "let's go dancing/pool playing/hanging out, and get a buzz in the process" instead of "Woo hoo! NO parents! Let's get supremely wasted and see if we can hook up!"

And after college wasn't some kind of cessation of partying; it just changed again. It seemed to be more purposeful, for lack of a better word, between work stress and maintaining the bonds of our little friend tribes that we put together.

Last edited by bump; 07-02-2019 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:29 PM
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A guy at my localish college partied hearty just this weekend.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:51 PM
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I'm aware that the following is perhaps an unpopular opinion and paints me as a fuddy-duddy but so be it.

I have always had a value system that considered how I spent my resources (time and money) separating recreation from productive pursuits. I have always felt that the goal is to balance the two properly and recognize when to keep them separate. This inevitably leads me to see those who pursue "party culture" as over-investing their resources in recreation, to the detriment of productive pursuits. Now, of course some individuals have a natural capacity for high levels of engagement in partying, and still being perfectly successful in their productive pursuits (maybe it's genetic?). However, I suspect that on average they are outliers. So, for me, when I see someone committed to partying, I categorize it as risky behavior. (FWIW I can count numerous good friends in the past who did not make it out of their younger years into productive adulthood (or survive) because of their commitment to pursuing their form of partying.)

But that's just me.
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:02 PM
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I think that previous posters have it covered -- it's not partying, per se, that's a negative, it's the fact that (a) many college students decide to prioritize partying over classwork, and wind up with poor grades (and often flunking out), and (b) college partying has a tendency to lead to criminal activity (e.g., battery, rape, destruction of property) and unintended consequences (e.g., unplanned pregnancy, STDs, death or injury from drunken stunts).

I went to the University of Wisconsin-Madison, which has had a reputation as one of the U.S.'s biggest party schools for decades -- and, when I went there, the legal drinking age was 18. I saw an awful lot of classmates and dormmates get drunk and wasted nearly every night, and most of them didn't graduate. At the time, the stat we were quoted was that our graduation rate was just under 50% -- that is, less than 50% of any given freshman class at Madison wouldn't graduate from that school, and it was widely known that dropping out due to overindulging in the school's "vibrant party culture" was a big reason why.

18 year olds, generally speaking, aren't terribly good at moderation or thinking about long-term consequences of their actions; this is even more the case when they're suddenly out from under daily parental scrutiny of their actions.

Obviously, going to a few parties doesn't necessarily lead to negative consequences; the issue with "party culture" at colleges is all about the excesses.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 07-02-2019 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:33 PM
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18 year olds, generally speaking, aren't terribly good at moderation or thinking about long-term consequences of their actions; this is even more the case when they're suddenly out from under daily parental scrutiny of their actions.

Obviously, going to a few parties doesn't necessarily lead to negative consequences; the issue with "party culture" at colleges is all about the excesses.
And I think specifically, it's the younger students who the negativity is aimed at. Few people are getting bent out of shape at the post-college young adult nightlife scenes in a lot of cities, even though there's just as much booze, drugs and sex as in college.

But the difference is that the post-college set are more mature and experienced. A 25 year old who's graduated college will have a better handle on how to party than a 18 year old who's out from under their parents' thumb for the first time.

That's why the first year is such a bloodbath at most schools in terms of students failing out- a big chunk of them just go nuts with the freedom and treat the school part of college as a secondary pursuit. Schools with big party cultures just exacerbate that phenomenon.
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Old 07-03-2019, 01:27 PM
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That's why the first year is such a bloodbath at most schools in terms of students failing out- a big chunk of them just go nuts with the freedom and treat the school part of college as a secondary pursuit. Schools with big party cultures just exacerbate that phenomenon.
Indeed. My goddaughter just finished her sophomore year at Illinois State. During her freshman year, she was sharing an overcrowded dorm room with three other girls, two of whom overtly told her that (a) the most important part of college was having fun, and (b) she (my goddaughter) was lame, and "missing out" on what they considered to be the most important part of the college experience, because she was spending most of her evening studying, rather than going out and getting blitzed, like they were.

Not suprisingly at all, both of those girls flunked out of ISU by the end of their freshman years. But, they apparently had fun doing it.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:36 PM
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Underage drinking.

It may encourage lifelong problems with alcohol

It may distract people from studying

Young kids do dumb things (I was young once). Throw in peer pressure and alcohol and they do very stupid and dangerous things. YouTube is full of videos of people experiencing serious injuries because a drunken group decided to do something dumb.
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:36 PM
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I'm not sure what party culture means. Two a week. Drunk every night?
The problem is peer pressure. Colleges where the pressure is on someone to get smashed are not going to have the graduation rates of colleges where the pressure is on to do your problem sets, and party after. Like the one I went to.
My daughter went to a college at the very bottom of the party rankings - where fun goes to die. She graduated just fine.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:01 PM
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This. it's irresponsible. Party culture is a bunch of unsupervised kids spending someone else's money on ephemeral things.

When I was a freshman, there were like 20 freshmen engineering students on my dorm floor. One and only one graduated in engineering. Most didn't make it past their first year. I'd love to know what happened to them. Do they look back fondly their time drinking and getting stoned all day?

Some look on party culture as a waste of time and money. I view it as a waste of potential. Some just view it from the "prig" perspective - Why should other people enjoy themselves, when I'm not?
I wouldn't blame party culture on that. Engineering is a very common freshman major, and most of them just plain old can't handle the higher math. "Pre-med" is the same way, for that and other reasons.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:03 PM
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Indeed. My goddaughter just finished her sophomore year at Illinois State. During her freshman year, she was sharing an overcrowded dorm room with three other girls, two of whom overtly told her that (a) the most important part of college was having fun, and (b) she (my goddaughter) was lame, and "missing out" on what they considered to be the most important part of the college experience, because she was spending most of her evening studying, rather than going out and getting blitzed, like they were.

Not suprisingly at all, both of those girls flunked out of ISU by the end of their freshman years. But, they apparently had fun doing it.
I never thought getting blackout drunk and being hungover every morning was fun. Some people seem to think it is, I guess.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:15 PM
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I was a prof for *mumble* years and I saw a big change over time.

When I was a student and early on, if a class met at 3/4pm on a Friday, no big deal.

But then students didn't want to take classes that late on a Friday. Somehow interfered with their partay life.

So saw more MW 1.5 hours afternoon classes instead of MWF 1 hour classes.

But then 1/2pm F was too much of a burden. Then morning F classes were getting in the way.

So this made Thursday another partay night. Well, that meant that 3/4 pm classes on Th were interferring ...

It's just wrong that getting blackout drunk is considered not just acceptable but the norm. People too young to make good decisions are screwing up their life.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:20 PM
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The college "party culture" is viewed as negative because for some students (especially those who are immature, unfocused, unmotivated, or who haven't learned how to moderate their behavior), it can lead to them not completing their education and obtaining a degree. This puts them in an even worse situation than if they'd never gone to college, because they then have the debt (which is virtually impossible to erase) without the degree.

Plus, they are now in the habit of frequently partying, which makes it even tougher for them to succeed in the future, whether it's completing their studies or getting a job.
But isn't there going to be some point in a person's life where he or she first has the freedom to make bad decisions, will not have sufficient maturity to make good decisions, and most (hopefully) gradually learn to moderate their behavior?

We could say that this should be after college or make the age 16, 25, or 30, but at whatever the age, until the person learns, the original times will be marked by immaturity and overindulgence.
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Old 07-03-2019, 04:33 PM
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I wouldn't blame party culture on that. Engineering is a very common freshman major, and most of them just plain old can't handle the higher math. "Pre-med" is the same way, for that and other reasons.
Most of my friends my freshman year of college were liberal arts majors who preferred weed to alcohol and were not part of the frat-party type culture, and the majority of them wound up not graduating either! Some went off and did the traveling-hippie thing (or are still doing it) and some just went back home to live with their parents.

College really isn't for everyone.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:36 PM
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Nobody pressured me into drinking in my college years - it was my own decision to go partying, and I enjoyed it.
I did do my schoolwork and I did graduate.

And there wasn't much underage drinking at McGill, but the legal drinking age here is 18.

I have friends of various ages, including college students, and yes, I still do go to parties sometimes that involve many of my student friends. I no longer drink, but I enjoy hanging out with people, and I keep an eye on those who look like they may have partied too hard.

(The reason I'm sometimes at parties with a bunch of young university students is because we're all involved in a theatre group together. And there are people around my age in my theatre group as well, at these parties. No, I don't randomly invite myself to parties consisting of a bunch of drunk college kids much younger than me.)

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Old 07-03-2019, 06:09 PM
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But isn't there going to be some point in a person's life where he or she first has the freedom to make bad decisions, will not have sufficient maturity to make good decisions, and most (hopefully) gradually learn to moderate their behavior?

We could say that this should be after college or make the age 16, 25, or 30, but at whatever the age, until the person learns, the original times will be marked by immaturity and overindulgence.
Sure, but the problem with screwing up in college today is that it literally carries a much higher price tag than it used to. The cost of college has gone up much faster than inflation. My son just graduated from a public state university, and it cost about $30K/year. Many private universities are now in the range of $65K-70K/year.

It can really screw up your life to pay that kind of money (or more typically, take on that kind of debt) and not get a degree because of excessive partying.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:40 PM
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The lil'wrekker is soon to be a Junior at her University. She's still there taking summer courses, after spending time at another university on an internship. She's a good student, excellent marks. She's never been a party-er. Tomorrow she and a few girlfriends are going to lake for the 4th. There will be a huge group of 20 somethings and college friends. She's 20yo. I still felt the need to give her the drinking talk. I know she's trustworthy, but good girls can into trouble fast. Bikini clad girls, college boys, lots of alcohol. What could go amiss?
My talk was countered with, "Oh, Mother"

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Old 07-03-2019, 07:16 PM
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I wouldn't blame party culture on that. Engineering is a very common freshman major, and most of them just plain old can't handle the higher math. "Pre-med" is the same way, for that and other reasons.
Tis true, but at least in my circle the constant drinking and "par-taaay" ing did not help. Some of the the people I'm talking about stopped going to freshman English, etc, too.

We had an upperclassman on our floor who liked to "party hardy"*. But he had the discipline to study. All the freshmen saw him binge drink on Friday and Saturday, but never noticed him in the library all Sunday. In a way, he was part of the problem. The freshmen took the wrong lesson from his "bad" example.

But they didn't have to, it was their own choice. I respect that. I just wonder how they would have fared without the "freedom" they had. Maybe they weren't cut out for college, who knows. I wish they'd given it a real try, though.

It's been 39 years. I wonder how they are doing.


*I never knew how that was supposed to be spelled

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Old 07-03-2019, 10:45 PM
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I had absolutely no interest in drinking or partying when I was in college. I eventually left campus and decided to take online courses because I got sick of living with people who were only able to talk about weed and alcohol.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:15 AM
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At my college, we have about 9,000 students & most of them live on/off campus, while the others commute.

Now, I do party, but I never get blackout drunk, only buzzed/tipsy, & I only got sick once. However, there's something about my college which makes it a "moderate party" school IMO:

It's located in a small, rural area with only a select amount of stores & restaurants. We only have one bowling alley & a pub/bar for entertainment. The nearest mall outlet/bigger town is about 10-15 minutes away. So, most people either stay in, party, or go home. Furthermore, our campus security is slightly strict, yet we still have fun, but most of our parties last about 4-5 hours, usually from 10 pm - 2 am. There's also a lack of "jungle juice" parties at my college. A majority of them are BYOB, but it's recently become a rare party event at my school, probably because of the underage liability risk.

On an extra note, the only reason our parties get busted is when a noise complaint is issued, but this mostly applies for house parties, rather than off campus apartments.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:40 AM
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Now, I do party, but I never get blackout drunk, only buzzed/tipsy, & I only got sick once.
I'll ask you this (and I'm not being accusatory, just curious):
- Have you ever skipped class the morning after a party, because you were tired or hung over?
- Do you go to parties despite knowing that you really need to be doing homework instead?
- Did you ever do something while you were buzzed/tipsy that, the next day, you thought back and said, "whoa, that was dumb" or "whoa, I got lucky that that didn't go really wrong"?

What I (and most of the other posters in your thread) have describes as the negatives of partying in college are when students (if they're being honest) would answer "yes, frequently" to at least one of the above.

Also, it sounds like partying, at your school, is at least in part the result of there being fairly few other social activities available.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 07-04-2019 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:40 AM
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It's viewed as bad by those too old to partake. I lived it with gusto back in the day, but now as an old fogey in my 60s, I'm more "Get off my lawn!" in outlook. But those were the days. A time to cut loose with few consequences. There were exceptions, like the two freshmen on a wild drunk who managed to ram their car into the largest tree on campus and kill themselves. Or the one girl who was drinking while leaning against a stairwell door in her building when it came open, she banged her head on the floor and died. But most students emerge unscathed.
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:15 AM
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We had an upperclassman on our floor who liked to "party hardy"*.

<snip>

*I never knew how that was supposed to be spelled
It's "party hearty".
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:19 AM
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I'll ask you this (and I'm not being accusatory, just curious):
- Have you ever skipped class the morning after a party, because you were tired or hung over?
- Do you go to parties despite knowing that you really need to be doing homework instead?
- Did you ever do something while you were buzzed/tipsy that, the next day, you thought back and said, "whoa, that was dumb" or "whoa, I got lucky that that didn't go really wrong"?

What I (and most of the other posters in your thread) have describes as the negatives of partying in college are when students (if they're being honest) would answer "yes, frequently" to at least one of the above.

Also, it sounds like partying, at your school, is at least in part the result of there being fairly few other social activities available.
The first 2 questions are a "No", however, the 3rd one is an interesting observation & I'll admit, there's some things that I'd redo over at those parties. However, nothing bad happened, more like missed opportunities when I should've been more confident with meeting new people/approaching girls. However, I helped a drunk girl home once after a party with one of her friends:

So, I met them after the party when they were the only ones standing outside while everyone else went their separate ways. Surprisingly, the drunk girl's friend didn't mind me helping her, even though she was a little buzzed herself. Then, I started to wonder why weren't they creeped out by my presence? Was it because her friend was there in that moment?

Furthermore, I didn't have ANY intentions with them, so I wasn't planning to "hook up" with them at all, even though I was buzzed as well. Meanwhile, while we were walking back, the drunk girl said that she: "regained faith in humanity" because other guys would've taken advantage of her in that situation, which was an interesting comment from her to say the least.

On an extra note, this thread connects with my other thread about approaching women in public, because several party situations occur from drunken behaviors, which may be either positive or negative, but mostly negative.
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:55 AM
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Or is it the illegal aspect of underage drinking?
In most countries that's not a factor at all, the US are among the few countries where it is normal to be of college age but not of drinking age.

And another +1 for robby's post.
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:28 PM
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- Do you go to parties despite knowing that you really need to be doing homework instead?
Heh. I had a fiendish buddy, and he and his roommate made killer margaritas. I would be home being a good boy, hunkered down for a night of study, when often they would call me to ask if I wanted to drink margaritas with them, or "margs" as we called them. (It even became a verb, "to marg.") I would say no, then all they had to do was fire up the blender while I was on the line, and that was it, over to their place I went.
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Old 07-04-2019, 06:44 PM
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Speaking as someone who has seen both sides of it, I hate it because it makes self-destructive behaviors seem fun. The guys who are loading up your beer bong won't be there for you when you get a DUI or develop alcoholism. In fact those guys will probably get mowed down by their own alcohol issues, but first they will pass that self-destructive torch to someone else.

That's what I see when I see a toxic culture in progress. I see a mindless shameless entity that propagates itself by advertising a good time at the expense of the people it fools.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:26 PM
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Social/light drinking is more of an adult thing to do IMO, like having a glass of wine for dinner or having a beer or two at a picnic/bonfire. However, college kids usually binge drink because of their personality & the illegal aspect of it. I even heard of people who calmed down once they turned 21 because they didn't have to go through any loopholes just to get hooked up with alcohol.
  #35  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sta3535 View Post
However, college kids usually binge drink because of their personality & the illegal aspect of it.
And, as a number of posters in this thread have already noted, going off to college gives students much more freedom from the day-to-day oversight of their parents than they've ever had before, and lends itself to engaging in excesses and irresponsible behavior (be it drinking, drugs, promiscuity, or just never going to class in favor of playing video games).

Last edited by kenobi 65; 07-11-2019 at 01:15 PM.
  #36  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:05 PM
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We had an upperclassman on our floor who liked to "party hardy"*. But he had the discipline to study. All the freshmen saw him binge drink on Friday and Saturday, but never noticed him in the library all Sunday. In a way, he was part of the problem. The freshmen took the wrong lesson from his "bad" example.
I knew a guy like that; he'd get super-wasted on the weekend, and generally speaking if you met him, you'd think he was probably a stoner as well, and likely got bad grades.

In fact, he was carrying a nearly 4.0 GPA in microbiology, and ended up going to a relatively prestigious medical school, and has ended up as a med school professor of radiology at another even more prestigious medical school.

And HMS Irruncible, I think you're focusing too much on the worst-case aspects. I mean, 99.999% of students who participate don't have problems- even those chugging beer bongs.

It's like anything else- the vast majority can partake without issue, but there's a small minority that go way too far, and suffer the negative consequences.

The problem with freshmen/sophomores is that they're too young and/or inexperienced to make good choices in those situations for a number of reasons, so a proportionately higher number suffer negative consequences.

And like Siam Sam pointed out, I think no small part is older people being grumpy- either because they never did it when they were younger, or because the pressures and responsibilities of grownup life combined with physical changes are preventing them from doing it anymore.

I'd venture a guess that if you polled adults about party culture in universities, the negative vote proportion would track with age pretty closely.
  #37  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:32 PM
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“This American Life” did an entire show about how the party culture at Penn State affects the local people—the pizza delivery people get assisted, there is routine vandalism. Streets full of vomiting college students disrupting neighborhoods.

On weekends, residents wake up in the mornings having to deal with the remains of people having sex, and shitting on their lawns.

There is also the occasional death resulting from alcohol use, whose abuse is intensified by the fraternity system.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/396/1-party-school
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  #38  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:38 PM
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the pizza delivery people get assisted
I'm guessing that this was supposed to be "assaulted," but auto-correct did its magic. If not, then State College, PA might have a rash of drunk-but-helpful PSU students pitching in to assist their local delivery drivers.
  #39  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:43 PM
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And HMS Irruncible, I think you're focusing too much on the worst-case aspects. I mean, 99.999% of students who participate don't have problems- even those chugging beer bongs.
I think you fabricated that number because NIDA puts it about 10 million times higher than that.

Quote:
According to the 2016 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), 57.2 percent of full-time college students ages 18 to 22 drank alcohol in the past month; 38.0 percent engaged in binge drinking (5 or more drinks on a single occasion for men or 4 or more drinks on an occasion for women) in the past month; and 10.5 percent engaged in heavy alcohol use (binge drinking on 5 or more days in the past month).
(bolding mine).

I would argue that binge drinking 5 days is a problem, and puts one at risk of more serious problems, and 10% is a very concerning figure for that.
  #40  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:46 PM
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I'm guessing that this was supposed to be "assaulted," but auto-correct did its magic. If not, then State College, PA might have a rash of drunk-but-helpful PSU students pitching in to assist their local delivery drivers.
Ha. Yes. Assaulted. There was a story about a pizza guy who routinely feared being hit by bottles and stuff when he made deliveries.
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  #41  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:47 PM
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There's nothing wrong with partying. There is something wrong with drinking to an excess on a regular basis. And most college students don't know the difference, so when they refer to "partying", they usually just mean "getting drunk".
  #42  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:47 PM
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I actually did misread that, as meaning that pizza delivery people got lots of money from parties.
  #43  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:56 PM
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On weekends, residents wake up in the mornings having to deal with the remains of people having sex
I get why they would find witnessing zombie fornication off-putting.

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 07-11-2019 at 02:57 PM.
  #44  
Old 07-11-2019, 04:14 PM
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I get why they would find witnessing zombie fornication off-putting.
Used condoms, soiled underpants, heavily intoxicated youths on the doorstep. That kind of thing.
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  #45  
Old 07-11-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
I think you fabricated that number because NIDA puts it about 10 million times higher than that.


(bolding mine).

I would argue that binge drinking 5 days is a problem, and puts one at risk of more serious problems, and 10% is a very concerning figure for that.
I have a feeling that the numbers are skewed by places like BYU and Liberty University.

5 or more drinks in an occasion, on 5 or more days a month? That's the threshold for "serious problems"? When I was in school, the numbers were a LOT higher than that- it was probably more like 55% drank, and 50% binge drank, and 40% did it between 3 and 10 days per month.

Basically there was no concept of moderate drinking- people either drank enough to be somewhere between a buzz and completely passed-out, or didn't drink at all.

And yet, despite that, the vast, vast majority of them didn't end up with any acute or long term issues as a result. Some did, but (and I have no cites), the percentage was a LOT less than 10%- probably on the order of 1%.

I'm not saying it's a good thing to party like that, but I am saying that it's not nearly as bad as the pearl-clutching Baptists seem to think it is.
  #46  
Old 07-11-2019, 06:31 PM
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There you have it: Party culture is viewed negatively because the world, much like the SDMB, has lamentably large chunks of the populace who are puritanical old fogeys quivering in silent indignation that somebody, somewhere, might be having fun.

And it's doubly offensive if it's *young* people having that fun! They don't know what they're doing! They should be investing in their 401k's and buying sensible socks and not playing with their damn phones all the time! Kids these days. Youth is just wasted on them. Why, when *I* was young, I did my homework twice a night just to be sure, brushed my teeth 5 times, and made sensible long term capital gains investments before having a warm glass of milk and toddling off to bed at 8PM every night!

And now look at me! I'm in the middle class and own my own home and 2 cars! *Thunderclap* Gaze upon my majesty! Bow before my wisdom!

Sure, I comprehensively screwed the environment for my kids and grandkids. Sure, my generation enjoyed a peak of prosperity and standard of living that is steadily declining for all subsequent generations. My kids will probably never be able to afford a home in the area I live due to rampant real estate inflation and zoning laws. I've also created a maliciously defunct political system run on lies and billions of dollars of systemic corruption that nobody can do anything about. None of that matters! What matters is *I* did the sensible thing, and people who do fun things are bad! How will they ever aspire to reach the same level of perfection and excellence as I if they spend their formative years drinking and pawing at each other??

There is a single right way to do things, and these damn kids just don't get that they're wasting their lives having fun while young when they could enter the middle class a whole 2.5 years earlier if they just lived in coffin-motels and subsisted on gruel while making sensible investments with the money they save! And just think how they're seriously endangering their comfortable middle class future by partying and potentially dropping out of college! Why, they could end up *lower class*, with unfixable environmental problems, unsustainable housing markets, and systemically corrupt politics! Do you know how much worse that is than being *middle class* with all those problems??

Truly, party culture is a pernicious issue we need to pass some laws about right away.
  #47  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:14 PM
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And yet, despite that, the vast, vast majority of them didn't end up with any acute or long term issues as a result. Some did, but (and I have no cites), the percentage was a LOT less than 10%- probably on the order of 1%.
Here's a link to an abstract of a report on college drinking and academic issues. In the abstract, it notes data from several different studies.

In one study:
- 25% of college students report suffering academic issues specifically due to drinking
- 22% of college students who drank fell behind on their schoolwork
- 30% missed class due to alcohol use

In another study:
- 24% reported doing poorly on a test or assignment due to alcohol use
- 33% reported having missed a class due to alcohol use

In a third study, it was found that there was a direct relationship between average weekly drinking levels and grades; students who averaged "A"s had an average of four drinks per week, while those who averaged "D"s or "F"s had an average of 10 drinks per week.

Now, are all of those kids suffering "acute or long-term issues" due to drinking / partying? Very likely not. As has been noted, there are *some* kids who party hearty, but still manage to get good (if not great) grades, and graduate. But, poor academic performance directly leads, in many cases, to flunking out, and I think that flunking out of college qualifies as an "acute or long-term issue." I think your suggestion that "the vast, vast majority" aren't having major issues due to partying is likely inaccurate, and I will bet you that it's actually substantially higher than your estimate of 1%.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 07-11-2019 at 07:18 PM.
  #48  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:37 PM
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I was in a college fraternity with a bunch of degenerate partiers, myself included. Excessive drinking, casual drug use, promiscuous sex and outrageous behavior were par for the course. But the majority graduated, got married and have successful careers. A few fell by the wayside, but most straightened up after college, no worse for wear.
  #49  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:00 PM
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Was Animal House too far? I don't think so. Bluto graduated.
Well, he became a senator anyway.
  #50  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:32 PM
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I was in a college fraternity with a bunch of degenerate partiers, myself included. Excessive drinking, casual drug use, promiscuous sex and outrageous behavior were par for the course. But the majority graduated, got married and have successful careers. A few fell by the wayside, but most straightened up after college, no worse for wear.
Exactly. And I'd wager that it wasn't just the majority as in 51%, but more like 95% Enough to where the flameouts were far more notable than the guys who were successful.

And stuff like "30% missed class due to alcohol use" could mean anything from "Suffered alcohol poisoning and was still in the hospital" to "Went out to a bar with friends, stayed out too late, and skipped their 8 am class because they didn't want to get up that early even though they weren't hung over."

There's a lot of room for interpretation in that statement.
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