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Old 10-29-2019, 02:04 PM
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I'm tired of the Haka and "respect the Haka"


I didn't want to step on the RWC thread with my mini-rant, so I opened this thread.


I'm tired of the unnecessary deference to NZ and their ritual. There is no practical reason to allow one team to do a confrontational ritual which the other team has to endure, but not counter-challenge or "disrespect".

The All Blacks are already a formidable team and thus need no help. If they want to do a traditonal cultural activity they should do it in the locker roooms. Peruvian soccer players pray to a couple of Catholic images, privately and nobody would expect the other team to see and watch them pray a couple of Hail Marys in total silence and reverence.

It also breaks the Flow of the pre.match, pumping up one team and making the other lose energy. You should be allowed to go to the bench, play cards, practice kicks, make fun, or whatever. The other team is issuing a war cry, a defiant song, but apparaently for those in the "respect the haka" camp, the NZers are to precious to take any oppostion to it.

Just cancel it or do it way before the match and don't even try to forcé the other team to watch it. And if they decide to be on the pitch they should be able to do whatever they want, within reason. Practive lineouts.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:21 PM
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I'm not a fan of the haka in general.

My solution is simple, anyone can do whatever they want during their warm-up period. Should the other side choose to acknowledge a display that's their choice and would fine, as is ignoring it completely.

At the end of the warm up period we have the anthems and then kick off.

No special privilege for anyone, no special burden on anyone, people are fully free to perform whatever cultural ritual they like. I've never heard a good argument for why it must be the last thing done before kick-off.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:32 PM
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I reckon that if the All Blacks performed a haka first, then they sang “God Defend New Zealand” the balance would be better.

Last edited by penultima thule; 10-29-2019 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:14 PM
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Them performing an intimidation ritual before a match is fine: That sort of thing has always been a part of sports.

And likewise, the other team performing an intimidation ritual right back is also fine.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:44 PM
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Them performing an intimidation ritual before a match is fine: That sort of thing has always been a part of sports.

And likewise, the other team performing an intimidation ritual right back is also fine.
Kinda like this?
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:00 PM
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That's good. Every match should be a combination of Rugby and You Got Served.
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:38 PM
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Professional dance-off! I love it.
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:55 PM
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I won’t lie. I’d watch.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:08 PM
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I think you'll find most fans look forward to it. If you've never seen one in person then it may not have the same impact. And seriously, if that 90 seconds is so upsetting for you, maybe you could head to the loo.

https://www.gq.com.au/fitness/sport/...8fb86a8496f064
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:56 PM
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But why should the other team not be allowed to do something, too?
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:38 AM
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Hong Kong 7's got rid of the Hakka.

One, it took too long.

Two, the various Pacific Island teams, who have related Hakka traditions, could take the Hakka a bit too personally and get a bit too excited.

Three, Eric Rush, former All Blacks, brokered the agreement between the various countries/teams back in the day.
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Old 10-30-2019, 01:53 AM
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The Haka has been responded to on occasion. The French famously got into some performing Kiwis faces once.
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Old 10-30-2019, 02:07 AM
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I assumed that was going to be that "Scotsmen quietly lifting their kilts" commercial, but this is much better.
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Old 10-30-2019, 04:08 AM
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I think the Haka is great and should be continued. I also think fining a team for "disrespecting" the Haka is stupid.
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Old 10-30-2019, 05:42 AM
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I assumed that was going to be that "Scotsmen quietly lifting their kilts" commercial, but this is much better.
Or maybe a bunch of sullen Gallic tribesman staring down?
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Old 10-30-2019, 05:49 AM
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Fully agree with the OP. I'm not aware of any recent controversy, but I remember this rearing its head in a Wales v NZ international a few years ago. IIRC, the Welsh opted to go into a huddle while the haka was performed, ignoring it completely, and there was an outcry. Why? Sure, NZ and anyone else with that tradition can go ahead and do it, but forcing the other team to watch is ridiculous. I'd draw the line at the other team actively disrespecting it, but ignoring it should be fine, not fined.
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:27 AM
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The French response to a hakka in the '11 WC final was to all hold hands while their lock and 8th man jointly massaged the 8th man's asshole. Now if that isn't a display of reamwork in the face of tongue lapping adversity, I don't know what is. https://youtu.be/yiKFYTFJ_kw?t=45
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Last edited by Muffin; 10-30-2019 at 06:31 AM.
  #18  
Old 10-30-2019, 06:35 AM
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Fully agree with the OP. I'm not aware of any recent controversy, but I remember this rearing its head in a Wales v NZ international a few years ago. IIRC, the Welsh opted to go into a huddle while the haka was performed, ignoring it completely, and there was an outcry. Why? Sure, NZ and anyone else with that tradition can go ahead and do it, but forcing the other team to watch is ridiculous. I'd draw the line at the other team actively disrespecting it, but ignoring it should be fine, not fined.
Disrespectful would have been dressing up as 19th century British Grenadiers and charging with bayonets.
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Old 10-30-2019, 08:41 AM
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Or maybe a bunch of sullen Gallic tribesman staring down?
I think the English should respond with a display of morris dancing.
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Old 10-30-2019, 09:19 AM
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Disrespectful would have been dressing up as 19th century British Grenadiers and charging with bayonets.
Disrespectful sure; but awesome nevertheless.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:03 AM
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I think you'll find most fans look forward to it. If you've never seen one in person then it may not have the same impact. And seriously, if that 90 seconds is so upsetting for you, maybe you could head to the loo.

https://www.gq.com.au/fitness/sport/...8fb86a8496f064
I don't think the time involved has anything to do with it, it's the fact that 1) they feel entitled to shove that in the other team's faces, and 2) they act like a bunch of pissbabies if the other team doesn't sit there and take it to their satisfaction (and really get bent out of shape if the opposing team dares to respond.)

nevermind how silly it looks to see a team which is half white (or more) trying to act like hard-ass Maori warriors.

Last edited by jz78817; 10-30-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:13 AM
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Yeah, especially since the ancestors of most of those whites probably went egads, the natives are doing some sort of war dance...FIRE!
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:40 AM
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I agree that if the New Zealanders want to do the Haka, they can do it as they please, but they should have no expectation that the other side should have to respect it not respond in kind. That is a unilaterally entitled attitude.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:50 AM
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I don't think the time involved has anything to do with it, it's the fact that 1) they feel entitled to shove that in the other team's faces, and 2) they act like a bunch of pissbabies if the other team doesn't sit there and take it to their satisfaction (and really get bent out of shape if the opposing team dares to respond.)
I only watch rugby once every 4 years or so, but from this article, it doesn't sound like they act like pissbabies.

"Numerous haka experts in New Zealand have attested that England’s move to confront the haka was in no way offensive to the All Blacks side, and did not violate Māori cultural protocol, known as tikanga.

The All Blacks themselves dismissed the significance of the incident at the time, with their scrum-half Aaron Smith also revealing English captain Owen Farrell was winking at him during the performance."

"Wehi said the haka was widely misunderstood and was intended as a challenge to the opponents – and any side that met the challenge deserved respect – not a fine. “A haka is laying down the challenge and they were challenging the All Blacks back – so no problem with that,” he said."

"Most Māori love it when the challenge is met – I love it,” said Wehi. “People have to understand more what the haka is about. People think what they are doing is disrespectful. But if you ask Māori, they’ll tell you that’s what it’s all about. It’s laying a challenge and if the other team want to challenge you back – then it’s all good. That’s what it is all about.”
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Old 10-31-2019, 12:05 AM
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Try this one - after it, the authorities brought in respect rules to tone the pre-match aggro down a bit. Apparently, you are not allowed to 'answer the challenge' too seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4

Anfd for some amusing comparison, this is how the All Bl;acks mdid the Haka back in the 1970s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBCpPGNDr1U

Last edited by Wallaby; 10-31-2019 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 10-31-2019, 03:00 AM
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Fully agree with the OP. I'm not aware of any recent controversy, but I remember this rearing its head in a Wales v NZ international a few years ago. IIRC, the Welsh opted to go into a huddle while the haka was performed, ignoring it completely, and there was an outcry. Why? Sure, NZ and anyone else with that tradition can go ahead and do it, but forcing the other team to watch is ridiculous. I'd draw the line at the other team actively disrespecting it, but ignoring it should be fine, not fined.
The Welsh should have sung "Men of Harlech".
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Old 10-31-2019, 03:57 AM
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And for some amusing comparison, this is how the All Blacks did the Haka back in the 1970s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBCpPGNDr1U
... I've rarely come across something so cringingly White People in my life.
  #28  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:21 AM
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The English team were allowed to do whatever they wanted during the haka, *except* cross the midfield line, which is what they were fined for.

So in the end, both sides performed a centuries-old tradition: NZ did the haka, while England crossed a line and invaded someone else's territory.

Last edited by Annoying Buzz; 10-31-2019 at 04:21 AM.
  #29  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:41 AM
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The English team were allowed to do whatever they wanted during the haka, *except* cross the midfield line, which is what they were fined for.

So in the end, both sides performed a centuries-old tradition: NZ did the haka, while England crossed a line and invaded someone else's territory.
  #30  
Old 10-31-2019, 08:37 AM
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The English team were allowed to do whatever they wanted during the haka, *except* cross the midfield line, which is what they were fined for.

So in the end, both sides performed a centuries-old tradition: NZ did the haka, while England crossed a line and invaded someone else's territory.
English gotta English.
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Old 10-31-2019, 08:41 AM
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... I've rarely come across something so cringingly White People in my life.
I'm white, but, duuuuude, that was so akward. Some were just faking it so badly.
  #32  
Old 10-31-2019, 09:17 AM
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White Men Can’t Haka

Wesley Snipes and Woody Harrelson play street rugby hustlers in Auckland.
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:23 AM
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I am too, but the mix of half-assed unenthousiasm, being completely out of synch with each other, obvious embarrassment, looking at each other with that "are... are we really doing this, guys ?" and "ok I'm going to do it but not, you know, *do* it" is all so very uncomfortably yikes. And yet so relatable.

And then that last guy in the line who's really into it except it still looks like he's riverdancing just broke me
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Old 10-31-2019, 10:22 AM
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It looks like at least 2/3 of them are watching someone else and following along, as opposed to knowing the moves themselves.

Has any team ever tried responding with something ridiculous, like the Macarena or the Electric Slide? Or after the recent World Series, they could do the Baby Shark.
  #35  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:36 PM
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I am too, but the mix of half-assed unenthousiasm, being completely out of synch with each other, obvious embarrassment, looking at each other with that "are... are we really doing this, guys ?" and "ok I'm going to do it but not, you know, *do* it" is all so very uncomfortably yikes. And yet so relatable.

And then that last guy in the line who's really into it except it still looks like he's riverdancing just broke me
the one guy was probably preoccupied with thinking "are... are mutton chops still in style?"
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