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  #501  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:08 PM
Atamasama Atamasama is online now
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I’m a completionist who typically takes forever to finish a zone in an MMO. I’m usually doing every quest and side quest, every achievement, doing trade skills, whatever. Eventually I’m outleveling all content I run into until the end game. That’s just how I play.

If zones scale then my OCD perfectionist streak doesn’t cause get in the way of having challenges anymore. I like this change. I like the freedom Chisquirrel mentioned.

Last edited by Atamasama; 01-18-2018 at 03:08 PM.
  #502  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:52 PM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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Looks like the retro-raid scaling thing I mentioned earlier is one of the main complaints of the userbase. According to Blizzard, it was mis-implemented and wound up overscaling raid mobs by about 100% above expected values. Apparently mobs in MoP and WoD raids are now tough enough to be a challenge to solo runners, and (worse yet) people trying to do the raids at-level (like Level 80s trying to get the Algalon achievement in Ulduar) are finding it impossible; bosses have too much health to kill before enrage.

Apparently, this and many other bugs in 7.3.5 are why we're being treated to a special short-notice 8-hour maintenance day tomorrow (1/19/2018).

Last edited by gnoitall; 01-18-2018 at 09:53 PM.
  #503  
Old 01-19-2018, 12:04 AM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnoitall View Post
Looks like the retro-raid scaling thing I mentioned earlier is one of the main complaints of the userbase. According to Blizzard, it was mis-implemented and wound up overscaling raid mobs by about 100% above expected values. Apparently mobs in MoP and WoD raids are now tough enough to be a challenge to solo runners, and (worse yet) people trying to do the raids at-level (like Level 80s trying to get the Algalon achievement in Ulduar) are finding it impossible; bosses have too much health to kill before enrage.

Apparently, this and many other bugs in 7.3.5 are why we're being treated to a special short-notice 8-hour maintenance day tomorrow (1/19/2018).
Oops. You'd think they'd have some sort of testing system in place to make sure things like this didn't happen - maybe they could even have a separate server with all the changes, that anyone can play on to give feedback. They could call it the Server for Public Testing, or the Testing Server (Public), or something like that.

As for complaints about not being able to do level 80 things at level - that ship sailed long ago. With the mechanics, talents, abilities, and other changes, the gameplay has changed too much in the past four expansions to be remotely comparable. I mean, sure, it's a cool achievement, but...
  #504  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:25 AM
Clawdio Clawdio is offline
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Can confirm. When I did my run of Terrace of Endless Spring on Tuesday night, the bosses that used to take me 5 seconds to kill, now took me 10 seconds to kill. This injustice shall not stand!

But seriously, how did people find out about the Algalon thing? Was there a full raid of appropriately geared level 80's that just happened to be trying for the achievement on the very first night of the patch?
  #505  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:37 AM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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Originally Posted by Clawdio View Post
But seriously, how did people find out about the Algalon thing? Was there a full raid of appropriately geared level 80's that just happened to be trying for the achievement on the very first night of the patch?
Indeed. One of the commenters to the EU version of the Blizz announcement told that very story. Algalon had triple the health he had before scaling, requiring DPS literally beyond the capability of the 10-man group of 80s.

That particular achievement is only available in a level-appropriate group with composite item level below a threshold. It's a non-cheesable achievement, by design, and therefore non-achievable at the moment.

This is not the first time Blizzard has taken upon themselves to "fix" the problem that mobs are dying too easily. Remember the ilvl scaling "feature" Blizzard stealth-implemented in 7.2?

This episode is further proof that there are several Blizzard devs who think they know better than the the userbase and shove these "features" down our throats. Even the climbdown described in the announcement isn't reverting an obviously bad idea; it's just tuning the boss buff down a small bit, so those bosses will still be a lot tougher than they were. Tough enough that soloing a late raid boss (like WoD or MoP) on a less-then-awesome character (like alts) may expose the attempt to mechanics you'd normally be able to power past. (Like the 40-second cooldown before the Sha of Pride banishes you, or having to deal with Phase 2 (sparks, columns, disappearing floor) of Elegon. (This last bugs me, since I'm farming Elegon on 10 alts a week.)

They haven't gotten it right, but expect resistance to further tuning down, because again, the devs are right and the users are wrong.
  #506  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:57 AM
Clawdio Clawdio is offline
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Meh, this is one achievement that has been around for 8 or 9 years (I remember this achievement being available when trial of the crusader dropped). So one achievement out of literally thousands wasn't do-able for 3 whole days... 9 years later. I just can't get that worked up about it.

Regarding soloing old content, I recognize I'm in the minority, but I don't think old content SHOULD be easy to solo. I would rather it be just barely possible for an exceptional player to solo old raids, but no huge challenge for say.... a group of 5. But again, I realize I'm a minority as I don't solo old content ever (other than wanting all 3 color variants of the one shaman set from MoP), but there are lots of people that enjoy farming stuff week in and week out.
  #507  
Old 01-19-2018, 12:14 PM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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Originally Posted by Clawdio View Post
Meh, this is one achievement that has been around for 8 or 9 years (I remember this achievement being available when trial of the crusader dropped). So one achievement out of literally thousands wasn't do-able for 3 whole days... 9 years later. I just can't get that worked up about it.
Sympathy not your strong suit, then? The "9 years" doesn't count if the players didn't buy into the game until much later, really. Hell, I don't have the achievement, although I don't care much, but there's no point in having an achievement that's beyond achievability. And I wouldn't bet too much money on the "three days" bit either. As I said, it's looking like the tune-down won't initially be enough to overcome the initial overzealous buff, so more accurately like "3 days and counting."

And BTW, I think the achievement has relevance now even to max-level players, because of Ulduar Timewalking. Previous Ulduar raiding achieves have been "archived" as legacy, specifically because Ulduar was given relevance and currency with Timewalking, so having an effectively new achievement literally unreachable is beyond unfair.

Last edited by gnoitall; 01-19-2018 at 12:15 PM.
  #508  
Old 01-19-2018, 02:40 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnoitall View Post
Sympathy not your strong suit, then? The "9 years" doesn't count if the players didn't buy into the game until much later, really. Hell, I don't have the achievement, although I don't care much, but there's no point in having an achievement that's beyond achievability. And I wouldn't bet too much money on the "three days" bit either. As I said, it's looking like the tune-down won't initially be enough to overcome the initial overzealous buff, so more accurately like "3 days and counting."

And BTW, I think the achievement has relevance now even to max-level players, because of Ulduar Timewalking. Previous Ulduar raiding achieves have been "archived" as legacy, specifically because Ulduar was given relevance and currency with Timewalking, so having an effectively new achievement literally unreachable is beyond unfair.
Ulduar came out the same time as Minecraft. WoW at level 80, NOW, is nothing like WoW at level 80, THEN. Players are regularly pulling more than twice the DPS in the same gear. Four expansions is plenty of time to get the achievement, and it's pretty low on the list of things worth whining about, especially since groups HAVE been able to kill him post-patch, while carrying another toon.
  #509  
Old 01-19-2018, 04:07 PM
Clawdio Clawdio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnoitall View Post
Sympathy not your strong suit, then? The "9 years" doesn't count if the players didn't buy into the game until much later, really. Hell, I don't have the achievement, although I don't care much, but there's no point in having an achievement that's beyond achievability. And I wouldn't bet too much money on the "three days" bit either. As I said, it's looking like the tune-down won't initially be enough to overcome the initial overzealous buff, so more accurately like "3 days and counting."
Point conceded. For the niche group of players with XP turned off at level 80, who are raiding old content while making the effort to only equip items that were available 4 expansions and 9 years ago, this is incredibly unfair. I guess this is an argument in favor of sanctioned legacy servers.

Anyway, I came up with the best monk name today, looking forward to starting a new character and seeing how the scaling works in practice in the old zones.
  #510  
Old 01-19-2018, 05:44 PM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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Originally Posted by Clawdio View Post
Anyway, I came up with the best monk name today
You know, it's a bit unfair to just make that announcement and leave it like that. It's living the punchline, man.

(Of course, you'll notice I've never mentioned my characters' names here, because I'm a paranoid git that doesn't want to make it too easy to tie on-line identities together, so I would understand if you want to just leave it at that unsupported assertion. )
  #511  
Old 01-19-2018, 08:36 PM
Atamasama Atamasama is online now
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I’m guessing it’s Kwai Chang Candycane.
  #512  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:05 PM
gnoitall gnoitall is offline
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Well, I have good news and bad news. (For me, obviously. The rest of you play a completely different game than WoW, as far as I can tell.)

The good news is that MV is very farmable for a 110 after today's patch.

The bad news is that they've botched raid locks. Your UI says you have a raid lock with "X" cleared out of "Y", but when you go in it's a full reset.

This is true whether it's the particular toon with the lock, or any character in a group with that toon that's supposed to inherit and accept the lockout. In other words, for now, full clears for everyone (at least up to the desired boss). More time wasted.
  #513  
Old Today, 09:28 AM
Clawdio Clawdio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnoitall View Post
You know, it's a bit unfair to just make that announcement and leave it like that.
I present to the world: Ianmonkellen.

Uh oh. Now worried that I over sold it. But the new scaling thing seems cool for leveling. Once I get to 60, if I understand correctly, I think I can go to Northrend (??), which will be nice because I hate questing in Hellfire Penninsula for some reason.
  #514  
Old Today, 11:05 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Yep. I can confirm that at level 60 Northrend is available.

I was skeptical at first about the whole scaling thing but I think this might actually be a real improvement. It will make farming certain prior-expansion items a teeny bit more effort but not enough to really impact my cash-flow (I make a LOT of money crafting panther mounts, as just one example). Otherwise... I think I might enjoy leveling certain alts more under this system. Overall, I think it's a positive change, at least for me.
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