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Old 05-23-2016, 04:06 PM
GlowingDarkness is offline
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Do 'nice guys' ever find women who will accept them?


Just to clarify, I'm not a nice guy and neither is this about me. This has been interesting to me since I've been seeing it online on YouTube and other sites.

Apparently a good number of women don't like "nice guys" because lets be honest. Most of them whether it be due to biology or social conditioning are attracted to males who are confident. A sense of protection is what they go for. Even if it is completely false. Nice guys are often mistaken for being shy and unable to defend women from threats (Note: This isn't my opinion. It's just what I've read from evolutionary psychology)

But then I think that I as an open minded and deep thinker judging people by evolution is silly. Sure a lot of women might go for the traditional role, but people are individuals. And there are all types of women in the world who would date and marry nice guys. Hope is not lost for them

Thoughts?
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:19 PM
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Well, my dad is pretty much the embodiment of a nice guy, and he found my mom who accepts him. And I know a lot of acquaintances - nice guy men - who have girlfriends or are married.

So, anecdotally, yes, it can happen.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:24 PM
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I think my guy is a pretty nice guy, though not a 'nice guy'. I mean, he's not a misogynist, like so many 'nice guys' are if you just scratch the surface a little, but he's not really a fighter, he's respectful and courteous and a gentleman, he spoils me and pretty much lets me have my way in most things because he loves me.

We both bring our strengths to the table. When he feels strongly about something, really strongly, then we generally do it his way. He is fiscally savvy and very sensible, but if there's fighting to be done (not physical, that's childish anyway) I am usually the one to do it. Like if I need to return something, or complain about customer service. He is extremely reserved and I am the social one.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:30 PM
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Sure. Almost all people end up with someone, at least for a while.

But from your description of nice guy, the quotation marks are not needed. You're asking if kind, soft-spoken men ever end up with women. All the time. "Nice guy" implies the kind of person who does all sorts of things for a woman in the hopes that he'll punch in the proper sequence to make her legs spring open. They're ironic quotes, there's nothing nice about it.

But even most "nice guys" end up with women too. Some grow out of it, and some find a women who's willing to be treated like a sex vending machine in hopes of getting a husband.

I'm generalizing, I know.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:34 PM
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Most men who have money can find a woman. Even most antifeminist men who have money will find a woman. PUAs are generally antifeminist and yet they find many women.

I am not looking for female friends until I will have a salary like $50K/year -- which I will never have.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:38 PM
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Different people mean different things by "Nice Guy". To some, it's become a put-down.


But I'm a "Nice Guy" by the definitions we used to use, and I've been married to Pepper Mill for 23 years now, so I guess it can happen.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:58 PM
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Different people mean different things by "Nice Guy". To some, it's become a put-down.


But I'm a "Nice Guy" by the definitions we used to use, and I've been married to Pepper Mill for 23 years now, so I guess it can happen.
There's actually a huge difference between a nice guy and a "Nice Guy". If you're actually just a nice person, then your chances of finding a life long partner is very high.

Self described "Nice Guys" are the ones other people dislike, because they're not really nice people. They're whiny and feel entitled to have sex with any woman they treat in a way they consider nice.

Understandably, it may be difficult to determine if you're a nice person of a "Nice Guy". "Nice Guys" tend to have a lot of anger toward women, but in my experience it's very rare they have any awareness of how entitled and unpleasant they appear to others. But my point is, I don't believe it's really a simple matter of people having different definitions, so much as some people sorely lacking self awareness.

At any rate, both types definitely find women that will accept them. Being a thoughtful conscientious person is one of the best traits anyone can bring to a relationship, so of course bona fide nice guys get women. On the other hand, plenty of women wind up with entitled assholes, so tons of "Nice Guys" get women too. They may be the butt of a lot of jokes, but it's silly to think they never wind up in relationships.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:08 PM
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My husband is a nice guy. He's polite and respectful of others; kind and decent in a way I've found few people I've met to be.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop View Post
Self described "Nice Guys" are the ones other people dislike, because they're not really nice people. They're whiny and feel entitled to have sex with any woman they treat in a way they consider nice.
IME as you imply, they often do not realize it. Many people seem to imply that "they are just being nice to get sex" when its more a dysfunctional perception of what women want. People call them entitled when more often than not they are confused. People are attributing to malice what is more accurately ignorance. Plenty of "Nice Guys" really do want relationships.

They are just going through a checklist like this:
I am clean and nicely dressed
I give her flowers
Take her nice places
Tell her how wonderful she is

She doesn't want to go out with me anymore, why have advances been rebuffed, why does she not want a relationship with me?

The problem is that they are looking at the lack of a relationship as a problem and are seeking the parts and tools to solve the problem.

They see other guys doing these things and don't realize that there is more to it because the details are not something we share with the world its how you relate when you are alone with them that makes the difference.

Its nowhere near as simple, and they dont realize that the checklist (clean, flowers, dinner, etc_ is just the admission to the game. The rest is how you play.

I blame TV for making it look too easy.

Last edited by drachillix; 05-23-2016 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:34 PM
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If the "nice guy" has spine and common sense sure, no problem, but too often being a self professed "nice guy" is code for

"I bought you dinner and drinks.... so please, please fuck me"
"I'll do anything you want for some affection"
"I'm socially clueless and will probably embarrass you"

Any man who actually says (out loud) "I'm a nice guy" to a woman he is considering is either an incipient sociopath on the make or someone excusing their social awkwardness by being overly solicitous and fawning. Women desiring long(er) term relationships normally want caring and competence in one package. A man who will not set limits is a man who not be respected.

Having said this there is a point - Why You’re Not Married - where women may re-consider their options, but that's on a case by case basis. If you are not completely socially hapless and have decent hygiene and are not hideous after the age of 30 or so single women are often a lot more flexible in their parameters.

Last edited by astro; 05-23-2016 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:53 PM
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A key bit of advice to the OP and anyone else who is open to receiving it:

Guys who are truly kind and respectful don't have to say they are nice. "Niceness" should just go without saying. Telling a woman that you're a nice guy is basically telling her she'd be wise to stay away from you. That's how widespread the Nice Guy meme is. So please come up with a different way of describing yourself.

I don't know why guys seems to think "niceness" is unattractive. 'Cuz it is not. But like any other trait, it is insufficient all by itself. I don't know why this is so puzzling to people.
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:22 PM
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Any man who actually says (out loud) "I'm a nice guy" to a woman he is considering is either an incipient sociopath on the make or someone excusing their social awkwardness by being overly solicitous and fawning.
Or maybe they're just boring and/or unattractive.

Sociopaths don't seem to cover for their sociopathy by proclaiming how nice they are. And many of them attract lots of women (a poster child is Ted Bundy, who did quite well before and after achieving notoriety, including having a gaggle of women giggling at his Florida murder trial).

I never got anywhere with Mrs. J. until I got my "Born To Raise Hell" tattoo and served a prison stretch for littering (and creating a nuisance).
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:47 PM
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Self described "Nice Guys" are the ones other people dislike, because they're not really nice people. They're whiny and feel entitled to have sex with any woman they treat in a way they consider nice.
And one has already posted to this thread. (I'm not naming names! Ow!)




Most of the guys I know are pretty nice, and most are partnered. One of my cousins used to work as a bouncer; he's large enough that even without "puffing up" most dudes would take a look and suddenly sober up*. He may have a mean bone someplace, but I've known him since he was born and I've never seen him be anything but kind. Even as a little kid, being mistreated by another of a similar size would be more likely to leave him confused than trigger a tantrum. He's the kind of guy who'll be very polite while immobilizing an asshole and taking him outside. He's also married, with a daughter.

* Anecdote told at his wedding by a short, small, built former coworker "we'd tell troublemakers 'dude, do I need to call Mike? he does karate' and they'd blow raspberries and we'd call Mike and they'd go 'aaaaaaaah!' and suddenly remember their manners, and then later they'd ask us 'and he does karate?' 'yeap' 'what does he need karate for?'"

Last edited by Nava; 05-23-2016 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:54 PM
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And one has already posted to this thread. (I'm not naming names! Ow!)
Um, the one who admitted to being a "Nice Guy", maybe?
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:18 PM
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Just to clarify, I'm not a nice guy and neither is this about me. This has been interesting to me since I've been seeing it online on YouTube and other sites.

Apparently a good number of women don't like "nice guys" because lets be honest. Most of them whether it be due to biology or social conditioning are attracted to males who are confident. A sense of protection is what they go for. Even if it is completely false. Nice guys are often mistaken for being shy and unable to defend women from threats (Note: This isn't my opinion. It's just what I've read from evolutionary psychology)

But then I think that I as an open minded and deep thinker judging people by evolution is silly. Sure a lot of women might go for the traditional role, but people are individuals. And there are all types of women in the world who would date and marry nice guys. Hope is not lost for them

Thoughts?
Yes. Nice guys don't get the sex they are owed because women go for bad boys. I've seen it on the internet too.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:47 PM
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I'm soft spoken, have trouble picking up signals, and have always tried to treat all people with respect. It took a while, but I found someone (or she found me) and we've been married for almost 20 years.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:09 PM
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. . . I as an open minded and deep thinker . . .
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:08 PM
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Well, you're starting off on the right foot by questioning what you've read of evolutionary psychology, because evolutionary psychology is, at least based on the ''research'' I've seen, shit science. A favorite kind of shit science misogynists like to use to prop up their poor treatment of women.

Anyhow, define 'protection.' There is nowhere I feel safer than in my husband's arms. He is 5'7'' and 140 lbs. I have a wedding photo of his then teenage sister sweeping him into her arms and carrying him and spinning him along the ground in celebration. Maybe not your stereotypical definition of masculine, but he's a compassionate badass. Gentle, kind to everyone, almost always reasonable, so calm in a crisis.

The day he first kissed me, i was 19 and I had a panic attack. i had severe PTSD at the time. We had just hooked up and I broke up with him, sobbing, ''Sorry, I can't do this.'' He wasn't angry. I swear to fucking God, he drove an hour and half to see me, bought me flowers, everything, and here I am rejecting him and sobbing like a child. He pulled me into his arms and said, ''It's okay. I just want what's best for you.'' He stayed with me the entire night, expecting nothing.

It wasn't a one-shot miracle moment, either. That's his standard MO at all times. Compassion, understanding, acceptance. Compassion, understanding, acceptance. Over and over. Never fails.

I'm sure some ladies dig the assholes. As for me, I'll keep my nice guy.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 05-23-2016 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:08 PM
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Again, they are discussing me. As a rule, most men earning >30K/y can find a girlfriend. Most men earning >60K/y can find a girlfriend even if they are very antifeminist.

I am not a "nice guy" -- I am not looking for female friends.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:17 PM
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Again, they are discussing me. As a rule, most men earning >30K/y can find a girlfriend. Most men earning >60K/y can find a girlfriend even if they are very antifeminist.
This is totally absurd. Totally and utterly.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:19 PM
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This is totally absurd. Totally and utterly.
Most prominent anti feminists do have wives or long time partners.

Last edited by CCitizen; 05-23-2016 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:22 PM
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Most prominent anti feminists do have wives or long time partners.
Oops. I feel kinda silly. I misread that post. Apologies.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:25 PM
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Oops. I feel kinda silly. I misread that post. Apologies.
Everything is OK. Not having money means not having many types of relationships -- I had recently quit my relationship with my therapist. In many ways, romantic partnership as well as therapeutic partnership does have financial side.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:22 PM
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I mean, can we state the obvious here? Nice guys often end up with nice girls. I don't mean ''nice'' in the euphemistic way but in the sense that you are compassionate, considerate of others, and yeah maybe a little shy.

That seems to hold pretty consistently across the board for all the fantastic men I know. There are very few couples I'm friends with where one is an obvious dick. People tend to attract people like themselves.

So sure, if your goal in life is to get a girlfriend who values money above all else, knock yourself out becoming rich and powerful. For some people that's not even a bad thing, because they will find someone who embraces the thing they value most -- money -- and it can be a good match. Just recognize a lot of people value a lot of different things other than money and if you truly and openly embrace your own values you will probably attract a partner who values those same things.
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:26 PM
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All the women I've had relationships though I was a nice guy. They liked that I treated them like human beings, and took an interest in what they had to say.
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:37 PM
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One of my red flags when dating is if a woman doesn't seem to value a man being nice. I also expect a woman to be nice. I have no problem sticking up for a woman in any situation but I have no respect for women who don't try to avoid these situations.
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:40 PM
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Thoughts?
You stay down now, Mr. Swedish Champion Sorry, wrong thread.

Nope. This subject is about played-out.
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:58 PM
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From my observation, there's also a religious demographic: Christian women are significantly more likely than non-Christian women to go for nice guys. In fact this may be true of religious vs. non-religious women in general.
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Old 05-24-2016, 12:59 AM
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There isn't any contradiction between actually being nice and being confident, and actually being nice gives women a sense of protection. The whole 'nice guys' complaint has a whole lot of fallacies behind it. If a guy is actually nice and not attracting women, he's probably not making a real effort (most of the 'assholes' who score a lot also get rejected more times in a month than the nice guy does in his life) or is socializing badly in some way. Neither of those are actually a direct result of being 'nice'. And a huge chunk of the people who call themselves 'nice guys' are actually not nice at all, and view women as a sort of video game where you keep putting in niceness tokens until you win a sexing (or loving or whatever).

You should read this page to get a good deconstruction of the nice guy fallacies: http://www.heartless-bitches.com/ran...eguys/ng.shtml

Evolutionary psychology is a great steaming pile of crap, it's just people tossing out pseudo-scientific babble to support their existing prejudices. I've never seen the kind of evo-psych that supports 'nice guy' complaints supported by any real research or critical thinking. The most common failure of critical thinking is taking some 20th century social conventions and 'proving' that they must have come from evolution because reasons, and never addressing why people didn't behave that way through the rest of recorded history. And Youtube comments are a swirling cesspool of broken people, it's a terrible place to get ideas from.
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:29 AM
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A better question...


If the sense of protection is solely a females basis on choice of mate then consider these thoughts ...
1. Has she considered the alternative?... dogs are great security.
2. Is she looking for a GOOD guy or a NICE guy or a STRONG guy?... there is a definite difference in each individually.
3. The males aware of this evolutionary truth are better searching for the female needing protection?
4. If she is looking for protection then how NICE a guy is matters none; thats a sacrifice one makes in this particular situation... most likely she will go for the ass hole who is just as likely the wimp as a nice guy having been passed by.
Even so, an ass hole that turns out to be a wuss was most likely chosen over a nice guy fit to serve these protection needs (this is shown by Hollywood in decades of romantic films).
5. Many NICE people are just as mean at times as those who are more often so.

If the intention here is to seek out a female mate its best to be the person you want to be or the person they want you to be. Ask yourself what life you want and what significance does this choice place over any/all life goals... Go from there.
  #31  
Old 05-24-2016, 04:32 AM
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Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn't evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds?
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:16 AM
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Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn't evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds?
The problem with evo psych is the poor methodology. It usually starts with some observation about modern-day human behavior that is factual, for example, women tend to prefer the color pink. It then attributes an evolutionary cause to that observation to the absolute exclusion of all other possible factors. Women like pink because we once played the gatherer role and needed to attend to reddish colors in nature (see: berries.)

Let us completely ignore the fact that pink used to be associated with boys more than girls as recently as the 1800s. Let us completely negate any possible explanation for this observation other than an evolutionary one. Let us then conclude that any existing inequalities between genders exist because it's natural and good and anybody who wants to correct them is just railing against the inevitable essential differences between men and women.

That is why it's shit science.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:05 AM
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Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn't evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds?
Evolutionary psychology is (at this time and in the usage in consideration in this thread and similar discussions) is a series of Just-So stories concocted to explain a current (real or perceived) social situation.

It is self-serving bullshit.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:18 AM
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Help me understand something: If evolutionary physiology is real, why isn't evolutionary psychology? Do only bodies evolve but not brains/minds?
There is some real science behind the evolution of human minds, and some serious scientific investigation into how much of modern human behavior can be traced back to evolutionary factors, but the "evolutionary psychology" that you see in youtube comments, from 'nice guys', or from PUAs/MRAs is sorely lacking things like controlled studies and peer reviewed papers. On examination, it ends up being just some guy making up a story to justify something that he thinks is true, then other people quoting him like it's respectable, or someone going to a real research paper and treating as complete proven fact an out of context conclusion or aside that's bounded by many conditional statements in the original.

Like I said before, one thing that is very telling is that evopsych explanations often assert that a 20th century American behavior is a result of evolutionary pressure in pre-history, but utterly fail to explain why other times and other cultural backgrounds produce different behavior.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:32 AM
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"Nice" is what you say about someone (or yourself) when you have absolutely nothing else to say. It is the equivalent of looking at a car and going "well, at least it runs". You can be nice and have a girlfriend or wife, as long as it isn't the only thing you have going for you.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:41 PM
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We need clarification: Are nice guys getting successful because of being nice, or in spite of being nice?
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:55 PM
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We need clarification: Are nice guys getting successful because of being nice, or in spite of being nice?
It's like DigitalC said. There are plenty of traits comparable to "nice" that at least some women find very attractive - kind, considerate, compassionate. Men like that can find a great partner if, like Shodan said, they have some standards and are pursuing the right kind of woman for them.

Then on the other hand, there are guys who are "nice" because they're bland and there's nothing else of note to say about them. If you're being described as nice because nobody can think of anything else to call you, you're going to have to succeed with women in spite of yourself.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:15 PM
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We need clarification: Are nice guys getting successful because of being nice, or in spite of being nice?
Actually nice guys are having success because they're also normal human beings. I'm not actually sure if their niceness is the most important factor in that success, one way or the other.

"Nice" guys are having some success, now and then, inexplicably, in spite of being desperate, rapey and smelly.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:18 PM
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Faking being nice is a nasty thing. Women can tell.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:27 PM
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Faking being nice is a nasty thing. Women can tell.
We have one of these in my writer's group. He hits on me in front of everybody else and generally acts like he's there to pick up women. He practically falls all over himself to pull out chairs and hold open doors. His writing has potential but it is very, very shallow and female characters are either nonexistent or pathetic caricatures.

Last session, he made a comment about one of the female characters in another writer's story: ''If it were me, I'd smack that bitch and dump her ass.''

The he looked directly at me with an expression bordering on panic and said, ''Uh, not physically.''



The worst thing about these guys is that they truly think they are nice. They think just because they may not have any ill intent means they are incapable of doing douchebag things. The best sort of people, IME, are the ones willing to honestly examine their own behavior for traces of dickery. These guys don't. They are perpetual victims of innocent misunderstandings and other people overreacting.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 05-24-2016 at 03:28 PM.
  #41  
Old 05-24-2016, 03:27 PM
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Faking being nice is a nasty thing. Women can tell.
Well, sometimes they can tell. Sometimes they can't tell, but they get clued in when the "nice" guy throws a tantrum and demands the sex he thought he was "buying" from said women. Sometimes the "nice" guy doesn't throw the tantrum, and instead goes home and sulks, and the women can never tell. But they still don't particularly want to hump the "nice" guy. 'Cause why would they? He's not particularly attractive.
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:39 PM
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I've tentatively identified as a "nice guy", quotation marks and all. As in, yeah, one of the guys who go on record complaining that women in general don't want "nice guys" and go out with the other kind of guys.

(It's complicated because it was never a bunch of Nice Guys™ who came forth and self-identified in this fashion; it was women, most specifically heartless bitches international, who wrote a screed about nice guys, which then went viral So for me to identify as a Nice Guy™ means I think I'm among the guys that the author of the heartless bitches piece was writing about).

Anyway, yeah.

Most women would like to be with male-bodied people who are men, who embody certain characteristics that we can designate as masculine, manly. Which isn't how I am at all. And for the record, I'm not angry and bitter about the majority of women having that preference. I just didn't like being left out in the cold, as it were.

There are several general categories of women who kind of like to be with guys like me, in other words good territory for me and guys like me to go a-flirting:

• masculine dykey females who (despite stereotypes to the contrary) aren't into other female-bodied people by preference, even if they generally tend to like women as people a lot.

• sexually active women who have been labeled sluts and similar terms, who have had sufficient time and opportunity to sow their wild oats and bang all the random cute guys and all that, who are kind of ready to be with someone who will love them and appreciate them and who don't have some kind of judgmental issue about who they've been with.

• feminist women who have a strong distaste for patriarchally scripted gender-specific courting and dating roles and would like to play with someone who doesn't do them either.


(cf — Chasing Amy, The Rose)
  #43  
Old 05-24-2016, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
Most women would like to be with male-bodied people who are men, who embody certain characteristics that we can designate as masculine, manly. Which isn't how I am at all. And for the record, I'm not angry and bitter about the majority of women having that preference. I just didn't like being left out in the cold, as it were.
In reality, most people appeal to a pretty limited range of their preferred sex. I'm not saying you're wrong for looking at yourself and saying you're not most women's type. But if you think most men are widely appealing to most women, I'd say you're mistaken. It's not a binary your type vs. all other men thing. It's your type vs. a whole bunch of different types of men.
  #44  
Old 05-24-2016, 10:07 PM
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(It's complicated because it was never a bunch of Nice Guys™ who came forth and self-identified in this fashion; it was women, most specifically heartless bitches international, who wrote a screed about nice guys, which then went viral So for me to identify as a Nice Guy™ means I think I'm among the guys that the author of the heartless bitches piece was writing about).
I first heard about 'Nice Guys never get the girl' growing up in the 80s, and went through a stretch of identifying as one before coming to my senses in the early 90s. The term was circulating at least a decade before there even was a web, and at least two decades before the website. The concept is much older than you think, and while it probably gained popularity from the site, it's NOT a recent invention. And yes, 'nice guys' self-identify, HBI didn't come up with the term or even attach it to people.

Also, have you read the site in question? Because they make it really clear that the people they're talking about are not actually nice at all, and I don't understand why anyone would want to self-identify as the whiny, sexist, manipulative, unkind person they describe.

Quote:
• feminist women who have a strong distaste for patriarchally scripted gender-specific courting and dating roles and would like to play with someone who doesn't do them either.
FYI Feminist women don't generally like the kind of guys identified as "nice guys" on the HBI site, because such guys are extremely sexist. I think you have a disconnect going on somewhere.
  #45  
Old 05-25-2016, 08:16 AM
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BTW, AHunter3, another thing:

This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
females
and this:
Quote:
female-bodied people
are not examples of well-chosen words. You're objectifying. Yes, I know you're also doing it with men, so it's an equal opportunity thing. But people don't notice it when you do it with men. They do notice it like all get out when you do it with women.

Women are just people, dude. (So are men, BTW.) "Females" is a word that sets off all kinds of alarm bells. Mine sure went off. You're risking some very heavy inadvertent well-poisoning here.

Last edited by Don't Panic; 05-25-2016 at 08:17 AM.
  #46  
Old 05-25-2016, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Martian Bigfoot View Post
Yes, I know you're also doing it with men, so it's an equal opportunity thing. But people don't notice it when you do it with men. They do notice it like all get out when you do it with women.

Women are just people, dude. (So are men, BTW.) "Females" is a word that sets off all kinds of alarm bells. Mine sure went off.
Last week is one of the rare times I heard an actual example of annoying mainstream political correctness. NPR was comparing men and women for some reason in a job, let's say engineers, and said "woman [engineers] did so-and-so", which first of all is annoying because most other examples of nouns-as-adjectives when applied to groups are seen as essentializing if not outright offensive, but that would be okay if they were consistent. But the piece went on to compare them to "male [engineers]" .

A bizarre overreaction to the use of "females" as a noun, which is indeed annoying in itself.
  #47  
Old 05-25-2016, 09:15 AM
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A bizarre overreaction to the use of "females" as a noun, which is indeed annoying in itself.
Not sure what your criticism is here. I was just pointing out the reaction one might get when using the word as the above poster did. I'm perfectly happy to give said poster the benefit of the doubt concerning his intended meaning. I'm just saying it's a red flag. And if you're walking around carrying a red flag, there might be angry bulls in your near future.

If someone wants to make it their mission to reform the noun "females", be my guest. If they also, say, want to walk around with a sign saying "misogynist" on their foreheads, because they like the look of the sign and the nice font it's written in, that's their call, too. But they'll probably draw some funny looks.

If someone was casually throwing around racial slurs, I would probably alert them to that, too.
  #48  
Old 05-24-2016, 08:55 PM
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We had the long thread (which I started) about the problems genuinely nice, but socially inept, guys. My conclusion was that being a decent person doesn't preclude us finding female companionship, but it isn't enough. Even being decent and nice looking may not be enough. Some of us just never learned to flirt or read signals. I was lucky enough to meet someone who was both willing to make the first move and highly compatible with me. The bottom line is that being nice doesn't keep us from finding someone, but by itself it's not necessarily enough.
  #49  
Old 05-24-2016, 08:58 PM
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There is one difference between a nice guy and a "nice guy":

The nice guy isn't afraid to make a move early on.
  #50  
Old 05-24-2016, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stringbean View Post
There is one difference between a nice guy and a "nice guy":

The nice guy isn't afraid to make a move early on.
^^^^ yeah, that.

Or, to rephrase it with different value judgments, a no-quotation-marks nice guy is sexually forward and makes moves and stuff. Which is not an expectaton of nice GIRLS, you may notice.
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