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  #51  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:48 PM
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Hancock was a unique take on living as a superhero absolutely ruined by the stupid, shoved in, makes no sense love story between Will Smith and Charlize Theron. I wish for a reboot.
  #52  
Old 11-19-2019, 04:02 PM
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Hancock was a unique take on living as a superhero absolutely ruined by the stupid, shoved in, makes no sense love story between Will Smith and Charlize Theron. I wish for a reboot.
I agree. Not only was the idea of a romance in the movie peculiar, but he happened to just snatch Jason Bateman's character's wife right out from under him, and we're supposed to be cool with it for some reason.

So not only was a love story not necessary or particularly useful, it was not even a GOOD love story either!
  #53  
Old 11-19-2019, 04:20 PM
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People justifiably complain a film is sexist if there are no strong female characters. I heartily applaud his decision to have Arwen take the place of Glorfindel and make her part stronger.
Arwen wasn't in The Hobbit. She was in the LOTR as a love interest anyway, and isn't what people are talking about.

I'm sure what people are complaining about is the absurd romance between Kili the dwarf and the elf Tauriel, who was invented for The Hobbit.
  #54  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:34 PM
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Arwen wasn't in The Hobbit. She was in the LOTR as a love interest anyway, and isn't what people are talking about.

I'm sure what people are complaining about is the absurd romance between Kili the dwarf and the elf Tauriel, who was invented for The Hobbit.
If I am interpreting DrDeth correctly, he was saying that augmenting Arwen in LOTR was a good idea, but he agrees that inventing Tauriel for The Hobbit was a bad idea.
  #55  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:35 PM
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Arwen wasn't in The Hobbit. She was in the LOTR as a love interest anyway, and isn't what people are talking about.

I'm sure what people are complaining about is the absurd romance between Kili the dwarf and the elf Tauriel, who was invented for The Hobbit.
Yes, I know. I was talking about the fact that people complain if a film has no strong characters, and thus Jackson made a good choice in LotR with Arwen.

What should he have done with the Hobbit? Ignore the cries for a strong female character in films? He pretty much had to create a new character, the Hobbit book being a complete sausage party. Of course, when it was written that was fine, but today?
  #56  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:38 PM
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OK, so I over-interpreted.
  #57  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:48 PM
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Well, he could have created a strong female character for The Hobbit, and skipped the part where he made her swoon over the first dwarf she saw. Not every female character has to be a love interest.

Last edited by TroutMan; 11-19-2019 at 05:49 PM.
  #58  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:57 PM
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If I am interpreting DrDeth correctly, he was saying that augmenting Arwen in LOTR was a good idea, but he agrees that inventing Tauriel for The Hobbit was a bad idea.
Tauriel was fine but the romance was bad.
  #59  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:58 PM
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Well, he could have created a strong female character for The Hobbit, and skipped the part where he made her swoon over the first dwarf she saw. Not every female character has to be a love interest.
I concur. Or maybe just let out that Fili & Kili were female. After all, us humans arent supposed to be able to tell the difference.
  #60  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:59 PM
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OK, so I over-interpreted.
To some extent. I appreciate Jackson brought in Galadriel, of course.
  #61  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:22 PM
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The Great Outdoors is one of my favorite John Candy comedies. It would have been even better with more John Candy or Dan Aykroyd and less angst ridden teenage son and local girl romance. That subplot really detracts from the silly lighthearted tone of the rest of the movie.
  #62  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:30 PM
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Back to School starring Rodney Dangerfield has a pointless romance between his son and a random fellow student.
  #63  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:01 PM
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...What should he have done with the Hobbit? Ignore the cries for a strong female character in films? He pretty much had to create a new character, the Hobbit book being a complete sausage party. Of course, when it was written that was fine, but today?
The problem with The Hobbit, is there's a lack of stuffing to the narrative, beyond it being a series of picaresque adventures that happen to Bilbo and his party. They keep falling downhill, from one adventure to the next, out of control, until they end up at the Lonely Mountain. But there's no real point, no greater significance or theme in their world, other than it's exciting. Unlike LOTR.

My thought was, if you have to bloat the plot to get three movies, then really go into just what the Necromancer was getting up to at Dol Whatever, show how its resolution was fundamentally different, yet ultimately more important, than what happens with one single dragon and his hoard, and show that settling the Necromancer problem didn't ultimately solve the Sauron problem.

Evil has to constantly be watched out for, fought---even if you'd rather ignore it, or deny it's happening---and afterwards, you still might not be done with the problem. That's a theme. For that, Galadriel (and plenty of her Wood Elves) should play a gigantic role. And not some stupid [expletives deleted] bit with some covered-in-birdshit wizard riding a rabbit sled.

Add Tauriel too, that's fine. But the love triangle was just asinine.
  #64  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:19 PM
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Cate Blanchett as Galadriel was so good that she'd probably have knocked it out of the park, no matter what you had her doing in the movie. Just increase her role.
  #65  
Old 11-19-2019, 10:55 PM
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The problem with The Hobbit, is there's a lack of stuffing to the narrative, beyond it being a series of picaresque adventures that happen to Bilbo and his party. They keep falling downhill, from one adventure to the next, out of control, until they end up at the Lonely Mountain. But there's no real point, no greater significance or theme in their world, other than it's exciting. Unlike LOTR.

My thought was, if you have to bloat the plot to get three movies, then really go into just what the Necromancer was getting up to at Dol Whatever, show how its resolution was fundamentally different, yet ultimately more important, than what happens with one single dragon and his hoard, and show that settling the Necromancer problem didn't ultimately solve the Sauron problem. ....
Add Tauriel too, that's fine. But the love triangle was just asinine.
Yes, and if you read the Appendices, the whole Hobbit thing was the B side to the White Council taking out the Necromancer.
  #66  
Old 11-19-2019, 11:13 PM
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Aragorn and Legolas had more chemistry in LOTR, I say mostly tongue-in-cheek, than Aragorn and Arwen. And Eowyn's girly crush seemed mostly sad. But yes, those movies needed some women.
  #67  
Old 11-19-2019, 11:18 PM
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34 posts and no one's mentioned Top Gun? Less romantic blah blah, more jets!
I thought the Iceman-Maverick sexual tension was adorable but you do you.
  #68  
Old 11-19-2019, 11:30 PM
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Though still flawed, I think "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" would have been much improved with just Indy and ShortRound.
Except for incessant screaming, I don't think Capshaw added anything to the movie/story (unlike Karen Allen who played a much bigger part of "Raiders").
in the crystal skull, they have a line where she asks "so whatever happened to that blonde nightclub floozy you used to drag around ? and he says she married a dentist and moved to Minnesota" and she deadpans i bet you were relieved (or an exchange close to that )

Last edited by nightshadea; 11-19-2019 at 11:32 PM.
  #69  
Old 11-19-2019, 11:36 PM
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Love Story. They meet on an ice hockey rink, hang out as friends, then she dies. It's more about the things that don't happen. Might have to change the title though.

Last edited by Isamu; 11-19-2019 at 11:37 PM.
  #70  
Old 11-20-2019, 02:00 AM
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There's an interesting Luc Besson movie from the 1980s called The Big Blue based on the lives of 2 world-champion free-divers (who were childhood friends). It's quite a beautiful and spiritual movie, well worth a look, but for some reason (US marketing, probably), they shoehorn in a completely useless Rosanna Arquette to be a love interest (and the character she lusts after isn't particlarly interested in her, anyway).

Last edited by Wallaby; 11-20-2019 at 02:00 AM.
  #71  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:19 AM
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34 posts and no one's mentioned Top Gun? Less romantic blah blah, more jets!
This.

And it didn't help that Kelly McGillis was pretty bad in the role.
  #72  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:42 AM
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People justifiably complain a film is sexist if there are no strong female characters. I heartily applaud his decision to have Arwen take the place of Glorfindel and make her part stronger.

Jackson was hamstrung by the Studios decision to make it into a trilogy. He had to pad, and the padding isnt good. Otherwise, the trilogy isnt bad, the first film is great.
Well, not if there is no good reason for there to be a female in it. If I'm watching a movie about, say, merchant mariners in WW2 I don't mind if there aren't any females. Or token females if it's Tolkien because that's how he saw women. But don't film, say, a movie about the Viet Nam anti-war movements and not put women in because you don't think they belong there.
  #73  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:43 AM
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34 posts and no one's mentioned Top Gun? Less romantic blah blah, more jets!
It needed more romance, but the understated one, not the obvious one. Marverick and Ice Man should have hooked up. You know they wanted to.

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Freddy Mercury's relationship with his wife was a significant part of his life. To omit it from his biopic would really do the story a disservice.
She was the "Love of My Life" after all. omitting her would leave a big hole in the story. (and since it actually is true, it shouldn't be left out of a biopic. Reality is stranger than fiction.)

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I had no interest in seeing Titanic when it came out because of the dopey love story(I do regret not having seen it on the big screen now). I don't know exactly how they could have filled out the rest of the movie but it seems there were enough other characters' lives that could have been explored or something.
Also, Jack would have survived if Rose hadn't hogged the whole dame piece of wood

Today, I really enjoy the movie but the romance angle is my least favorite part.
This is one of my pet peeves about people that "hate" Titanic for the romance - they forget that everyone's favorite Titanic movie A Night To Remember also has a teenage romance. There was even a scene in front of the clock with Andrews exactly like Titanic.

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 11-20-2019 at 09:44 AM.
  #74  
Old 11-20-2019, 10:40 AM
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It needed more romance, but the understated one, not the obvious one. Marverick and Ice Man should have hooked up. You know they wanted to.



She was the "Love of My Life" after all. omitting her would leave a big hole in the story. (and since it actually is true, it shouldn't be left out of a biopic. Reality is stranger than fiction.)



This is one of my pet peeves about people that "hate" Titanic for the romance - they forget that everyone's favorite Titanic movie A Night To Remember also has a teenage romance. There was even a scene in front of the clock with Andrews exactly like Titanic.
Totally agree with your first two comments but I haven't seen A Night to Remember so I'm just speaking about the Titanic on it's own terms. Maybe if the two leads had better chemistry (I adore both actors individually but they did not mesh in this case)or if they weren't the core of the film. Anyway, I definitely love the film; just saying the love tory, for me, didn't add anything.
  #75  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:42 PM
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As much as I liked Peter Jackson, I feel the entire second movie was unnecessary.
I suspect Peter Jackson agrees with you, since his original plan was to make two movies, but studios insisted on three. A whole lot of what is wrong with The Hobbit can be traced back to that.
  #76  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:55 PM
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The problem with The Hobbit, is there's a lack of stuffing to the narrative, beyond it being a series of picaresque adventures that happen to Bilbo and his party. They keep falling downhill, from one adventure to the next, out of control, until they end up at the Lonely Mountain. But there's no real point, no greater significance or theme in their world, other than it's exciting. Unlike LOTR.
Well, I think The Hobbit does indeed have a theme, which is Bilbo growing in many ways (from scared nobody to hero to wise enough to want to avoid fighting). But agree that there's certainly not enough to justify three movies.
  #77  
Old 11-20-2019, 01:22 PM
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I thought the Iceman-Maverick sexual tension was adorable but you do you.
Just made my day.
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  #78  
Old 11-20-2019, 01:36 PM
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I thought the Iceman-Maverick sexual tension was adorable but you do you.
When I do me I have sexual tension. Damn split personality.
  #79  
Old 11-20-2019, 03:14 PM
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Rose are red,
Violets are blue,
I have DID,
and so do I.
Also, me as well.
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  #80  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:25 PM
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I think the Sherlock Holmes movies (the ones with Robert Downey Jr. ) would have been better without a love interest for Holmes. Everybody always tries to turn Irene Adler into a love interest, and it didn't help that Downey and Rachel McAdams had zero chemistry IMO.
  #81  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:38 AM
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I think the Sherlock Holmes movies (the ones with Robert Downey Jr. ) would have been better without a love interest for Holmes. Everybody always tries to turn Irene Adler into a love interest, and it didn't help that Downey and Rachel McAdams had zero chemistry IMO.
Yep. I concur.
  #82  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:48 AM
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the godfather movie and book didnt need mike getting in married in sciliy
  #83  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:54 AM
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the godfather movie and book didnt need mike getting in married in sciliy
Hmmm... IDK. I think it added something to Mike's story, helped him on his was to ruthless killer. Also said something about his capacity for duplicity, going from that to his old gf back in New York like nothing. So maybe not so much important to the plot, but important to the character. Which is actually important to the plot in its own way, in a character-driven film. As the first two godfather films certainly were.
  #84  
Old 11-21-2019, 02:41 AM
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Any John Ford western. This also applies to "the best John Ford western not made by John Ford", Howard Hawks' Red River.
You had to have love in The Searchers for it to work.
  #85  
Old 11-21-2019, 03:49 AM
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The obligatory scene in any WW2 movie where the GI's go chase tail in some European village for 20 minutes.

It's almost always the worst part of the movie. I understand it happened in real life and you need a slow romantic/comedy bit in your movie as part of the checklist but I always hate it. I think "Battle of the Bulge" is the only time it's actually worked in a movie and there it's solely because it's actually two lovers just saying their quiet goodbyes before they flee the town from the Nazi's, you basically gain everything with what's unsaid than what's directly said.
  #86  
Old 11-21-2019, 03:37 PM
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For me, too. Also, I was somewhat aghast at the interaction between Martin Freeman and Zooey Deschanel (as well as between Deschanel and Sam Rockwell) in 2005's The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Agreed. That just smacked of Hollywood fuckery. Trillion's nonchalant rejection of Arthur Dent was part of the fun in the book/radio/tv series.
  #87  
Old 11-21-2019, 04:24 PM
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Arguably John Woo's The Killer and less arguably so, Hard Boiled.

Sally Yeh Chien Wen was so put off my her experience filming The Killer, she retired from acting shortly after (fortunately she's continued her music career). Woo has acknowledged that he didn't flesh Jenny's character and relationship with Ah Jong (Chow Yun Fat) correctly, leaving a disjointed plotline.

In Hard Boiled, I found the "romance" between Teresa (Teresa Mo Shun Kwan) and Tequila (Chow Yun Fat) unnecessary. The secret messages could just as well be relayed to a male officer in a different way just as effectively, making an all male cast. Mo's saving grace moment in the film is when she shoots the bad guy after he slaps her!

Last edited by lingyi; 11-21-2019 at 04:26 PM.
  #88  
Old 11-21-2019, 08:07 PM
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I thought the Iceman-Maverick sexual tension was adorable but you do you.
It was heavily implied that all the airmen were fucking each other. Why else have all the emotional naked shower/spots scenes. This is cannon, and it was what made the Maverick/Charlie romance so significant.
  #89  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:22 PM
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Not no love interests, obviously, but I think Love Actually would've been much better without the subplot with the two soft-porn stand-ins.
  #90  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:43 PM
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As Good As It Gets
Helen Hunt as a single mom / waitress.
Jack Nicholson as the curmudgeonly patron of her restaurant. He's an ass - but has a reputation for writing fiction that just utterly SPEAKS to his female readership.
Greg Kinnear as a gay man, which is relevant because a) he's not a love interest for Hunt, and b) he's a target for Nicholson's homophobic character.

I don't recall too many of the story details, but somehow Kinnear, Hunt and Nicholson have to go on a road trip. I think Nicholson learns to tolerate Kinnear - and somehow winds up involved with Hunt. The part of the relationship where he learns to be a better person / friend and learns to try to help others was believable - but having him wind up with Hunt romatically just rang incredibly false in my mind. It was like the producers said "Whoops - appealing to a female audience, someone gotta be in love with someone else, let's shove these two together, the end".

Hunt and Nicholson both won Oscars for it. Yes, their performances were very good - but ending up "together" just felt wrong.

Last edited by Mama Zappa; 11-22-2019 at 04:45 PM.
  #91  
Old 11-22-2019, 05:09 PM
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Major League.

It's a fun movie about baseball. The fact that there's any scenes with Roger Dorn's wife drives me up the wall.
As soon as I saw the thread title I jumped in to post this. Major League is one of the best sports movies ever, and best comedies ever, if you fast forward through all scenes with Renee Russo (nothing against her personally) and/or Dorn's wife.
  #92  
Old 11-22-2019, 05:33 PM
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As Good As It Gets
Helen Hunt as a single mom / waitress.
Jack Nicholson as the curmudgeonly patron of her restaurant. He's an ass - but has a reputation for writing fiction that just utterly SPEAKS to his female readership.
Greg Kinnear as a gay man, which is relevant because a) he's not a love interest for Hunt, and b) he's a target for Nicholson's homophobic character.

I don't recall too many of the story details, but somehow Kinnear, Hunt and Nicholson have to go on a road trip. I think Nicholson learns to tolerate Kinnear - and somehow winds up involved with Hunt. The part of the relationship where he learns to be a better person / friend and learns to try to help others was believable - but having him wind up with Hunt romatically just rang incredibly false in my mind. It was like the producers said "Whoops - appealing to a female audience, someone gotta be in love with someone else, let's shove these two together, the end".

Hunt and Nicholson both won Oscars for it. Yes, their performances were very good - but ending up "together" just felt wrong.
Kinnears character needed moneyand was going to borrow some from his mom since his art showing didnt make much money and he had to pay for the medical bills after getting almost murdered by a break in was the reason for the trip

Hunts character was the reason jacks character finally wanted to change and get the meds he refused ti take ......

Last edited by nightshadea; 11-22-2019 at 05:33 PM.
  #93  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:19 PM
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Ben Affleck's 'Pearl Harbor' came immediately to mind.

"But... but... but... Kate Beckinsale..." [/fanboy]
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