Talk to me about Kimchi (in terms I will understand)

[Mangetout]

I'm a Brit with (what I consider to be) fairly broad culinary tastes - and not averse to strong flavours - at the same time, being appreciative that foreign strong flavours are sometimes overwhelmingly difficult for an adult to grow to love.

I've tried things that claimed to be 'Kimchi flavour' - mostly these were ramen-type noodle pots. In some cases, including a sachet of moist pickled vegetables. None of these were any more offensive to me than, say, Branston pickle, which leads me to suspect that they may be heavily sanitised, westernised approximations, or at least that the process of making them shelf-stable in a flimsy plastic sachet may have destroyed their true nature.

If I look around, there are a number of products available to me in various Asian food supermarkets; comprising shelf-stable cans or jars, but also, jars in the refrigerated section. I suspect the latter of these is going to be the closest to authentic I can buy commercially here in the UK (without either making from scratch or finding someone who does).

Which leads me to the question: what will my likely impression of Kimchi actually be? What will my westernised nose and palate perceive it as?

[Isamu]

Ideally, you'll taste sour, spicy, crunchy vegetables. Apart from the usual kimchi that uses a leafy vegetable (a kind of cabbage, I believe), there are also cucumber and radish (my fav) kimchis. If you can get the radish one, please try it. It won't be super hot like a chilli pepper, but it will have a slight to medium burning sensation in your mouth.

Kimchi has a smell to it - which may be best described as vinegary (with old socks)? Vinegar is not really a pleasant smell to me, but kimchi is, so there must be a subtle difference in the aromas.

[Bozuit]

I bet mangetout would make good kimchi.

[Greekfreak]

Being reasonably adventurous with my palate, and having lived in Korea since 2000, I can say that the average person will find the smell too revolting to even get near the stuff. This is the rotten cabbage kimchi, not the radish or apple variety.

I don't mind it grilled, but their tendency to overdo food with sauces (particuarly hot pepper paste) is annoying.

[Anonymous Coward]

The few times I've had Kimchi it had a "fizzy" feeling on my tongue. I assume it's a byproduct of the fermentation process?

Is that fizz normal or desirable in Kimchi?

[Leaffan]

I have eaten homemade kimchi from a Korean friend and it is wonderful stuff. It was his mum's homemade authentic recipe, fermented and all.

As I recall it was nothing more than hot and spicy cabbage and peppers. If you have any kind of metropolitan taste in foods it should not be in the least bit offensive.

[GaryM]

I have made my own cabbage kimchi years ago. I took some to a local Korean restaraunt we ate at and they said it was pretty good.

The refrigerated jars at the local asian market, 50 miles away, is good. That's what I'd buy if I were you.

[pulykamell]

It's basically spicy sauerkraut, with a bunch of other things added to it. Sauerkraut is just salted cabbage leaves that are left to ferment. Kimchi is the same idea, although there's Korean hot pepper, green onions, garlic, ginger, etc. added to it (sometimes fish, dried shrimp, or oysters; fruit like apple or pear, some daikon radish.) To me, it's just really sexed-up sauerkraut, at least the Napa cabbage version of kimchi.

[Oedipus]

Originally Posted by Greekfreak

Being reasonably adventurous with my palate, and having lived in Korea since 2000, I can say that the average person will find the smell too revolting to even get near the stuff. This is the rotten cabbage kimchi, not the radish or apple variety.

I don't mind it grilled, but their tendency to overdo food with sauces (particuarly hot pepper paste) is annoying.

This man speaks the truth. I lived in Korea for 2 weeks this summer and I could barely eat bimbimbap because of the shitty pepper paste. Kimchi wasn't the worst thing ever, but it wasn't amazing and I can honestly say I've never craved the stuff. The Koreans thought I found it too spicy which is NOT true in the least, but I couldn't break it to them that I just didn't like it. Period.

That said, its worth the try. Have fun.

[Hello Again]

Some Kimchi is extremely spicey. I should say that the "standard" version of kimchi is *extremely* spicey by western standards. (Mild kimchis exist but when made from napa cabbage, I think it's a bit westernized). I've seen recipes that are not considered unusually spicy, that call for a CUP of chili powder to a head of cabbage.

I would wager your first impression will be -- "hm, kinda like saurkraut, only HOLYFUCK ITS SPICY"

Personally I've never eaten Kimchi that smells foul, it has a strong fermented smell but it's not inherently revolting and (compare with, durian, which smells disgusting). As far as I can tell, the only people who object to the smell of kimchi are people who just don't like strong smells in their food (and object equally to fish smells, onion smells, etc).

[HazelNutCoffee]

Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward

The few times I've had Kimchi it had a "fizzy" feeling on my tongue. I assume it's a byproduct of the fermentation process?

Is that fizz normal or desirable in Kimchi?

It just means the kimchi is a bit old. Some people like it that way.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Hello Again

Some Kimchi is extremely spicey. I should say that the "standard" version of kimchi is *extremely* spicey by western standards.

True. But if you're used to medium spicy & up Thai or Indian food, or even jalapeno peppers, kimchi should not be a problem for you. Korean chile flakes aren't really all that hot. Of course, it's all relative, but that's one of the reason I like Korean chile flakes--they have a distinctive flavor with a hint of heat that is not overbearing. I've tried to make kimchi with other kinds of pepper flakes, some hotter ones (like dried Thai chiles) or just different ones (like Italian red pepper flakes), and none of those taste right.

[Greekfreak]

Originally Posted by Oedipus

This man speaks the truth. I lived in Korea for 2 weeks this summer and I could barely eat bimbimbap because of the shitty pepper paste. Kimchi wasn't the worst thing ever, but it wasn't amazing and I can honestly say I've never craved the stuff. The Koreans thought I found it too spicy which is NOT true in the least, but I couldn't break it to them that I just didn't like it. Period.

That said, its worth the try. Have fun.

Yes, the pepper paste is akin to garlic--too much and that's all you taste.

And Koreans tend to believe that it's spicy. If you enjoy random Thai and Indian cuisine, you'll find it pretty boring, to be frank. Most Korean food is.

[Lanzy]

I spent over 3 years in Korea and I could never stand anything but the Americanized version of the stuff.

[Hello Again]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

True. But if you're used to medium spicy & up Thai or Indian food, or even jalapeno peppers, kimchi should not be a problem for you. Korean chile flakes aren't really all that hot. Of course, it's all relative, but that's one of the reason I like Korean chile flakes--they have a distinctive flavor with a hint of heat that is not overbearing. I've tried to make kimchi with other kinds of pepper flakes, some hotter ones (like dried Thai chiles) or just different ones (like Italian red pepper flakes), and none of those taste right.

I agree. It's not more spicy than spicy Indian dishes or spicy Thai dishes. Just, as you say, different/unfamiliar.

PS I like the "fizzy" mouthfeel, when I can get it.

[hogarth]

I'm not a big kimchi fan; the comparison to spicy sauerkraut is a good one, and I don't care for sauerkraut.

On the other hand, I like the radish and cucumber versions as suggested by Isamu.

[Jormungandr]

Check what ingredients are used in making it before eating. I used to eat kimchi at a local restaurant and enjoyed it. However, it changed ownership recently. I don't know where the previous owner was from, as he served mild and spicy only, but the new one uses seafood, particularly octopus. Unfortunately, I'm allergic to it, but I noticed the off taste just as I began to eat. Sadly, there are no other places that serve kimchi nearby.

[Mangetout]

Thanks folks - it sounds like I ought to try it - spicy doesn't frighten me too much (I don't go for 'this will only hurt' type sauces, but I'm not averse to eating things with no shortage of hot peppers in them). I guess it's the reports of it smelling 'rotten' that are giving me pause, but maybe these are just from people who would describe western chutneys in the same way.

[tdn]

Originally Posted by Hello Again

PS I like the "fizzy" mouthfeel, when I can get it.

Oh hell yeahs. Now I want some!

[ministryman]

Dammit, I'm drooling.....yes, true kimchi smells, but it goes down good with a nice korean Beer or some SOJU!

Hope you're sleeping alone. If not, you will be.....

[GargoyleWB]

There are some varieties or recipes that, to me, smell overwhelmingly of soap and disposable baby diapers (unused ). I haven't liked these personally. There are others that are more pickly and sauerkrauty, with good spiciness, that are so wonderful I get Pavlovian drooling just thinking about them.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Greekfreak

If you enjoy random Thai and Indian cuisine, you'll find it pretty boring, to be frank. Most Korean food is.

Oh, I'm not sure I agree with that. I really enjoy Korean food, especially the stews. Kimchi jjigae in particular. That one may be my favorite soup/stew in any cuisine, surpassing even pho and tom yum or tom kha. The barbecue items are all great, and I love the variety of banchan (little plates of appetizers that get served with your meal) that a good Korean restaurant serves. I still remember being overwhelmed the first time I went to a Korean restaurant (by myself, too) and getting something like a dozen to fifteen little plates of banchan, and thinking the waitress got my order wrong, as I ordered some bulgogi or something similar. I had no idea this was part of the Korean restaurant experience.

Korean food rocks. I love Thai and Indian, too, but Korean is great, as well.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward

The few times I've had Kimchi it had a "fizzy" feeling on my tongue. I assume it's a byproduct of the fermentation process?

Is that fizz normal or desirable in Kimchi?

It's old and I prefer it approaching tingly, but not crazy tingly. It's super fermented when you get it like that. When it is like that, make kimchi fried rice.

Originally Posted by Lanzy

I spent over 3 years in Korea and I could never stand anything but the Americanized version of the stuff.

What's the Americanized version?

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

What's the Americanized version?

Made with ketchup, bacon, and corn.

[Jeff Lichtman]

The most common type of kimchi is made from Nappa cabbage. When well-fermented it has a very cabbagey smell - much more so than sauerkraut. As others have noted, in addition to the red pepper flavoring it usually has other things like green onions and ginger, which add to the flavor and aroma. Kimchi made from chunks of radish is also common. I have also seen kimchi made from cucumbers. A local Korean market sells what they call "watery kimchi," which is pickled vegetables in a brine with no chiles.

Kimchi is strong both in flavor and aroma. I wouldn't expect it to appeal to people who like things on the bland side. You might enjoy it if you like bold flavors.

BTW, the sour flavor and aroma in kimchi come from lactic acid, which is a result of fermentation. Vinegar contains acetic acid, not lactic acid. This is probably why Isamu, who dislikes vinegar, doesn't mind the smell of kimchi.

[Greekfreak]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

Oh, I'm not sure I agree with that. I really enjoy Korean food, especially the stews. Kimchi jjigae in particular. That one may be my favorite soup/stew in any cuisine, surpassing even pho and tom yum or tom kha. The barbecue items are all great, and I love the variety of banchan (little plates of appetizers that get served with your meal) that a good Korean restaurant serves. I still remember being overwhelmed the first time I went to a Korean restaurant (by myself, too) and getting something like a dozen to fifteen little plates of banchan, and thinking the waitress got my order wrong, as I ordered some bulgogi or something similar. I had no idea this was part of the Korean restaurant experience.

Korean food rocks. I love Thai and Indian, too, but Korean is great, as well.

Korean food for me is on par with Russian food--mostly edible, rarely delicious. I find their soups very good, like Gamja tang or Doegi Guk Bap, and I really dig Andong jim dak--Sam gae tang is also good, but by and large, it's fairly pedestrian and unappetizing. Ditto with Japanese food.

Chaque'un son gout, as they say.

[Alan Smithee]

I love Korean food! About ten years ago when I was in my 20s my dad married first generation Korean immigrant. She loves the fact that when I visit I'll eat absolutely anything she makes, and share any dish with her at a Korean restaurant. I think Indian edges out Korean cuisine, but it beats Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, and Japanese, all of which I love. (Except Vietnamese. Vietnamese is just ok IME.)

[pulykamell]

Oh my, that would be like choosing between my children. I think Thai would be my favorite of the bunch, but the rest. I couldn't choose. I'd probably go Szechuan, Korean, Indian, Vietnamese, Japanese, but, really, this is impossible to answer. Right now, I want nothing more than a bowl of kimchi jiggae or buddae jjigae.

[Chronos]

The kimchi I've had mostly just had an extremely strong cabbage flavor, plus a bit of vinegar and a bit of spiciness. I like vinegar and spice, but I'm not overly fond of cabbage, so I usually order something else.

Now, I love bulgogi and bibimbob, thought that might just be that the Korean restaurant I used to go to just happened to be particularly good.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lichtman

BTW, the sour flavor and aroma in kimchi come from lactic acid, which is a result of fermentation. Vinegar contains acetic acid, not lactic acid. This is probably why Isamu, who dislikes vinegar, doesn't mind the smell of kimchi.

Yeah, kimchi doesn't have any vinegar--at least not any kind of kimchi I've ever had. Vinegar and lactic acid are both sour, but they have distinct tastes. If you've had a New York half sour or full sour pickle, or got a pickle from an Eastern European grocery that sells them out of buckets, that's what lactic acid fermentation tastes like. It's not as sharp a sourness as vinegar.

[Siam Sam]

Kimchi quality can vary so widely. Hawaii has a large ethnic-Korean population, so there was lots of it to be found in the stores. When living there, I tasted some really awful junk and some that was sublime.

[Oedipus]

Originally Posted by Greekfreak

Korean food for me is on par with Russian food--mostly edible, rarely delicious. I find their soups very good, like Gamja tang or Doegi Guk Bap, and I really dig Andong jim dak--Sam gae tang is also good, but by and large, it's fairly pedestrian and unappetizing. Ditto with Japanese food.

Chaque'un son gout, as they say.

I remember our most delicious meals coming from when he had our homestay and hung out with actual Korean teens. Most of the stuff then was like fried pork cutlets, amazing chicken wings, and more American-ish food. That was soooo yummy.

One of the "traditional" things we had though was like a whole fucking cornish hen filled with rice in a broth. No idea what it was called, but that shit was delicious.

[Great Antibob]

Originally Posted by Oedipus

One of the "traditional" things we had though was like a whole fucking cornish hen filled with rice in a broth. No idea what it was called, but that shit was delicious.

sam gae tang. It is traditional, but it's more of a special treat, rather than an everyday sort of thing. It's basically a chicken soup, and like in the West, Koreans consider it to have health benefits.

[Cartooniverse]

Originally Posted by HazelNutCoffee

It just means the kimchi is a bit old. Some people like it that way.

Isn't Kimchi by definition "old" ? I've always enjoyed opening a jar to find it somewhat carbonated and bubbly. That fades after a few openings anyway.

I love the stuff and rarely eat it. My Dearly Beloved™ does not like the scent of it on me, and lawdy it does cling for a while. When on the road, I'll go to a Korean BBQ place if I know it's got a decent rep with the local Koreans and indulge. Alternately, I'll take out my South Korean adoptee daughter for dinner and we'll dive in. Typical dinner would be the usual dizzying array of small dishes, kimchee, kalbe, bulgoki and perhaps a scallion pancake or two. Mmmmm.... Korean food !

[Clothahump]

Kimchi is the food of the ghods.

It will come in a wide variety of flavors and spices, from sweet and mild to sour and burn-the-enamel-off-your-teeth. You have to be adventurous and find the ones that you like.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Some kimchi is older than others. You can eat when it's new, or you can wait for three years, or eat it somewhere in between.

[Greekfreak]

Originally Posted by Great Antibob

sam gae tang. It is traditional, but it's more of a special treat, rather than an everyday sort of thing. It's basically a chicken soup, and like in the West, Koreans consider it to have health benefits.

Yes, chicken, not hen--basically ginseng chicken soup.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Cartooniverse

Isn't Kimchi by definition "old" ? I've always enjoyed opening a jar to find it somewhat carbonated and bubbly. That fades after a few openings anyway.

If you go to a place that has many types of kimchi or even specializes in kimchi (we have at least one here called New Chicago Kimchee), you should be able to find kimchi in various types and states of fermentation. The older types of kimchi, from my understanding, are generally used for stews like kimchi jjigae and not for straight-out-of-jar eating, although I'll eat any kind of kimchi straight out of the jar. I buy the old, overfermented stuff, (since I use it mostly for jjigae) but I can't remember if there's a special name for it or not. I kind of pantomime for the guy, say "old" and "jjigae" and eventually he figures out what I want.