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  #2001  
Old Yesterday, 05:53 PM
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Cats can carry Corona, chap.
  #2002  
Old Yesterday, 07:52 PM
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Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

Giuliani, a familiar voice in Trump’s ear, promotes experimental coronavirus treatments
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...63d_story.html

Quote:
Rudolph W. Giuliani, who was in the center of the impeachment storm earlier this year as an unpaid private attorney for President Trump, has cast himself in a new role: as personal science adviser to a president eager to find ways to short-circuit the coronavirus pandemic.

In one-on-one phone calls with Trump, Giuliani said, he has been touting the use of an anti-malarial drug combination that has shown some early promise in treating covid-19, the disease the novel coronavirus causes, but whose effectiveness has not yet been proved. He said he now spends his days on the phone with doctors, coronavirus patients and hospital executives promoting the treatment, which Trump has also publicly lauded.
....
This may not be the proper place to post this. I looked all over and couldn't decide. Someone please move if this should be somewhere else.
  #2003  
Old Yesterday, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
Probably not IRL:


The results are based on lab experiments in which a small number of animals were deliberately given high doses of the virus, SARS-CoV-2, and do not represent real-life interactions between people and their pets,
  #2004  
Old Yesterday, 08:19 PM
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Note to self: maintain 6-foot social distance from tigers at all times.
  #2005  
Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM
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I was in the pool a few minutes ago, and darn cold it was too. A commercial airliner flew overhead going from Bahrain to Frankfurt. This is this is the first such jet I have seen in a very long time.
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  #2006  
Old Yesterday, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Baron Greenback View Post
The Vera Lynn song kinda was too.
On the Friday that we got laid off, at the end of the shift, we were joking about "see you on the other side, and take care". It felt strange, as if I could feel the past breaking off from the future.
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  #2007  
Old Yesterday, 09:02 PM
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Have you noticed that the air is cleaner? I was out walking yesterday, and it was mild, and the air smelled absolutely amazing. In Belleville.
  #2008  
Old Yesterday, 09:11 PM
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On the Friday that we got laid off, at the end of the shift, we were joking about "see you on the other side, and take care". It felt strange, as if I could feel the past breaking off from the future.
I felt that the too. Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore
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  #2009  
Old Yesterday, 09:23 PM
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I felt that the too. Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore
We need to seriously think of what kind of future we want to have.

What are our priorities? Cheap consumable crap? Commuting to a job that can be done remotely? Polluted, brown air?

What do we want the world to look like going forward?
  #2010  
Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM
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Among a fuck-ton of others if you've listened to Pink Floyd's The Wall or seen Dr Strangelove you know/know of We'll Meet Again.

CMC fnord!

Speaking of Pink Floyd, Middle-aged New Jersey crowd shouts ‘f--- the police’ after cops bust up Pink Floyd cover band’s ‘corona party’

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Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
I was in the pool a few minutes ago, and darn cold it was too. A commercial airliner flew overhead going from Bahrain to Frankfurt. This is this is the first such jet I have seen in a very long time.

I live in Guanzhuang area of Chaoyang, Beijing, which is in the flight path for Beijing Capital International Airport. Usually when I look out my southern window, the airplanes coming in, especially at night, almost look like the arcade game screen for Space Invaders. These days, the maximum I've seen has been three planes in a day, four if you count the PLA medical helicopter that flew by.
  #2011  
Old Yesterday, 09:57 PM
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Aye, normally here in Las Vegas a plane lands or takes off about every 60 seconds. That is not true at all right now; our skies are mostly empty.
  #2012  
Old Yesterday, 11:17 PM
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1,273,810 confirmed infections
69,459 dead
264,761 recovered

In the US:

336,830 confirmed infections
9,618 dead
17,977 recovered

Yesterday's numbers for comparison:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
1,202,433 confirmed infections
64,729 dead
246,638 recovered

In the US:

311,635 confirmed infections
8,454 dead
14,825 recovered
I take the US numbers with a couple of grains of salt as there seems to be a serious problem with getting accurate data on Sundays. I doubt fewer people get sick AND fewer people die just because it's Sunday.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; Yesterday at 11:19 PM.
  #2013  
Old Yesterday, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
We need to seriously think of what kind of future we want to have.

What are our priorities? Cheap consumable crap? Commuting to a job that can be done remotely? Polluted, brown air?

What do we want the world to look like going forward?
These words are important. May I repost?
  #2014  
Old Today, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AdityanathYogi View Post
To the point by Trump:
https://youtu.be/nG9-_xk4-h4
To what point?
  #2015  
Old Today, 12:47 AM
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Much more to the point:

QE2 acting the way we wish trump would:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52176222
  #2016  
Old Today, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AdityanathYogi View Post
That to wait till the end of clinical trials is unaffordable.

Besides, I guess it's not ethical also at this point towards people in the control group of the clinical trial to be denied this. My grandfather is 80+ having high blood pressure if he happens to catch covid-19. would I like him to be in control group or in the group taking hcq in a clinical trial at this point?
What about the ethics of giving somebody a drug known to have potentially serious side effects that might not actually help treat COVID-19? While rare, the known side effects include permanent blindness and potentially-fatal cardiomyopathy or other cardiac events. Giving him this drug quite literally could kill him; is it ethical to give him a possibly fatal dose in the blind hope that maybe it might help, even without evidence that it will?
  #2017  
Old Today, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AdityanathYogi View Post
Besides, I guess it's not ethical also at this point towards people in the control group of the clinical trial to be denied this. My grandfather is 80+ having high blood pressure if he happens to catch covid-19. would I like him to be in control group or in the group taking hcq in a clinical trial at this point?
The stuff Trump & Co want to dole out en masse is not candy or even as benign as aspirin. It has side effects and some people can not tolerate it at all.

Would you want grandpa in the group that gets an experimental drug that might cause blindness, deafness, or destroy his heart and may or may not actually do anything to combat the disease he has or in the placebo group?

I sincerely hope that the chloroquine+Z-pak combo has some effectiveness against covid-19 but it is unproven and still experimental at this stage. Touting it as a cure is premature at best and, if it turns out it's not effective, can maim and kill people who otherwise have recovered from covid-19 without that particular damage.

If we don't do actual clinical trials with actual control groups we aren't doing good science and we won't actually know if this works or not. If it turns out that the drug combo is dramatically effective you can halt a trial early, but you have to do real science to get real answers.
  #2018  
Old Today, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AdityanathYogi View Post
Hydroxychloroquine Azithromycin combo may be unsafe for heart patients, for that consult your doctor but hydroxychloroquine alone is fairly harmless in small doses from what I read (even for that you would consult your doctor obviously)...
What the frack are you reading?

The ocular side effects - that is, potential blindness - is based on a cumulative dose, not a "small dose".

The side effects are nasty enough that some people opt to risk malaria rather than take this drug. Other people who find the drug useful for various auto-immune disorders sometimes have to stop taking it permanently.

Even if hydroxychloroquine is effective against covid-19 we don't know what an effective dose might be, let alone an optimal one. Sure, if it's a "small dose" the risk might be acceptable for severe case, or even "moderate" one in a person with significant risk factors but I sure as heck wouldn't take that drug for a mild case that's no worse than the average flu, and yes, I do mean actual influenza with the high fever, body aches, and not wanting to get out of bed for a week. If I could ride that out without a drug that could potentially blind me or destroy my heart muscle I would definitely opt for the "control group".

If, on the other hand, the choice is hydroxychloroquine or a week on a respirator I'm more open to the drug.

Cholorquine and hydroxychloroquine are not benign medications, they can be quite unpleasant and have significant chances of side effects, some of which can be permanent or life-threatening. There are times that they are appropriate, but dosing large numbers of people with this stuff when we don't even know if it works for what ails them is irresponsible.
  #2019  
Old Today, 03:13 AM
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What the frack are you reading?

The ocular side effects - that is, potential blindness - is based on a cumulative dose, not a "small dose".
Cumalative does over years rather than the days it will be given for COVID19.

Quote:
The side effects are nasty enough that some people opt to risk malaria rather than take this drug. Other people who find the drug useful for various auto-immune disorders sometimes have to stop taking it permanently.
Never had malaria have you?

Quote:
Even if hydroxychloroquine is effective against covid-19 we don't know what an effective dose might be, let alone an optimal one. Sure, if it's a "small dose" the risk might be acceptable for severe case, or even "moderate" one in a person with significant risk factors but I sure as heck wouldn't take that drug for a mild case that's no worse than the average flu, and yes, I do mean actual influenza with the high fever, body aches, and not wanting to get out of bed for a week. If I could ride that out without a drug that could potentially blind me or destroy my heart muscle I would definitely opt for the "control group".

If, on the other hand, the choice is hydroxychloroquine or a week on a respirator I'm more open to the drug.
Your body your business.

Quote:
Cholorquine and hydroxychloroquine are not benign medications, they can be quite unpleasant and have significant chances of side effects, some of which can be permanent or life-threatening. There are times that they are appropriate, but dosing large numbers of people with this stuff when we don't even know if it works for what ails them is irresponsible.
Riiight. It's a medication that has been around for 8 decades and sees millions of doses given a year. Its well understood and Doctors know how to manage it. Plus deal with side affects.
  #2020  
Old Today, 05:33 AM
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Never had malaria have you?
No.

On the other hand, I'm not fond of deafness, blindness, or heart damage, all of which are known if uncommon side effects of those two anti-malaria drugs.

If I was traveling to a known malaria-risk area, or I myself had malaria, I'd consult with a doctor about risks vs. benefits of medication but that's way different than listening to former "reality" TV guy with zero medical qualifications recommend a drug unproven in efficacy against a new disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Your body your business.
Let's just say I'm not a fan of taking a drug unless you actually need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
Riiight. It's a medication that has been around for 8 decades and sees millions of doses given a year. Its well understood and Doctors know how to manage it. Plus deal with side affects.
Right - side effects like blindness, deafness, and heart damage that in at least two cases lead to organ transplants. It's a well understood medication that is also well understood to have some non-trivial risks. Sure, MOST people take it and don't suffer terribly, but then, MOST people also get over covid-19 without needing to go to a hospital for more intense treatment.

That's why you need to listen to medical people and not politicians when it comes to treating a disease.
  #2021  
Old Today, 05:37 AM
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https://abc7.com/amp/coronavirus-dru...mpression=true

Dr. Anthony Cardillo said he has seen very promising results when prescribing hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc for the most severely-ill COVID-19 patients.

"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."
How many patients?

What sort of control group? (If there was no control group it's anecdotal data which is not reliable)

What criteria did he use for "very very ill"?

What follow up did he do?

How many did he follow to full recovery (meaning, two negative tests for the virus after symptoms went away).

How many patients were lost to follow up?

Those are really, really basic questions that you should be asking.
  #2022  
Old Today, 05:59 AM
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1,273,810 confirmed infections
69,459 dead
264,761 recovered

In the US:

336,830 confirmed infections
9,618 dead
17,977 recovered

Yesterday's numbers for comparison:I take the US numbers with a couple of grains of salt as there seems to be a serious problem with getting accurate data on Sundays. I doubt fewer people get sick AND fewer people die just because it's Sunday.
Yeah, the 10,000th U.S. COVID-19 death has almost certainly happened already; it just hasn't made it into the stats yet.
  #2023  
Old Today, 06:05 AM
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Just watched the Queen's message to Britain and the Commonwealth and the world.
Did she have a lot to say?
  #2024  
Old Today, 06:12 AM
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Did she have a lot to say?
Well, yes, but she changes from day to day.
  #2025  
Old Today, 06:24 AM
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Breaking (good) news from Austria! Residents of other places may want to take note, as this could be a preview of what's to come if your society does things right.

An hour-long press conference with the chancellor, vice-chancellor, health minister, and interior minister has just concluded. According to them, because Austria started its coronavirus containment measures much earlier than most countries, and because the population has been complying with them very well, the situation here has markedly improved. The daily rise in the number of new cases has sunk to 1.6%, and the doubling time for new infections has increased from every 3.6 days in mid-March to every 16.5 days in the last week. The replication factor still hasn't sunk below 1 (it's currently around 1.14), though all told Austria has recorded the best improvement among all countries in the European Union.

As a result, the government has put forth a plan to gradually relax the lockdown. Starting on 14 April, all home improvement stores will be allowed to open, as well as all small retail stores (i.e., those with less than 400 m˛ of floor space). From 1 May, all other retail and service stores (except restaurants) can open. From 15 May, hotels and restaurants will gradually be allowed to open. All this is conditional on everyone continuing to adhere to the existing restrictions on movement (i.e., no leaving the house except to do necessary shopping, to go to work if remote working is not feasible, to help others who cannot help themselves, and to do limited exercise), as well as on strict new measures to enforce social distancing in the shops, including mandatory face coverings and capacity limits of 1 customer per 20 m˛ of floor space. The chancellor stresses that this plan can be paused or even rolled back at any moment if the number of new infections starts to rise again, as already happened in Singapore after its relaxation of the rules.

Schools and universities will remain closed for in-person classes, though distance learning will continue and school-leaving exams will still take place, with arrangements to be announced in a later press conference.

The mandatory use of face coverings has been extended to public transport; violators will be subject to a fine of €50. The government did not, as some feared, make use of the Red Cross tracking app a legal requirement, though it is strongly encouraging everyone to use it. There are as yet no plans to reopen the federal parks; the matter will be revisited after Easter.

Despite earlier announcing that a special exception would be made for Easter Monday allowing families to hold a small home gathering (up to five guests), the chancellor, vice-chancellor, interior minister, and health minister all repeatedly implored people today not to hold such gatherings.

In stark contrast to what I've observed from press briefings in the United States and elsewhere, the Austrian government is taking its own recommendations on social distancing very seriously and practising them very conspicuously. Today's press conference featured four widely spaced podiums, each of which was enclosed in a plexiglass booth, and showed technical staff carefully measuring the distance between them. The four cabinet members entered the room wearing face masks and did not remove them until they were in place in the booths and ready to speak. Unlike in the US and in the UK, where senior officials have been caught dismissing or even flouting the rules, no such scandals have occurred in Austria. (The worst case I've read about was a backbench opposition MP in one of the state legislatures who was caught attending a "coronavirus party".)
  #2026  
Old Today, 09:13 AM
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Yay, psychonaut! Great news! We could use some hope.
  #2027  
Old Today, 09:40 AM
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Some good news:

Researchers have a way to sterilize masks so they can be reused.

They are developing ways using AI and chest/lung xrays to diagnose the virus. Hopefully this will go to help solve the problem of not enough people being tested.

Obviously we are not out of this yet but these will go further to help.
  #2028  
Old Today, 09:48 AM
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What about the ethics of giving somebody a drug known to have potentially serious side effects that might not actually help treat COVID-19? While rare, the known side effects include permanent blindness and potentially-fatal cardiomyopathy or other cardiac events. Giving him this drug quite literally could kill him; is it ethical to give him a possibly fatal dose in the blind hope that maybe it might help, even without evidence that it will?
There's a simple solution to all this. As we saw when Covid tests were almost impossible to obtain, the uber-rich and famous shoved their way to the front of the lines and got them, since they are more equal than the rest of us peasants. Seems simple enough to do the same with this drug. Let the movie and sports stars, along with the uber-rich muscle their way ahead of us to get this "cure", and then watch their social media accounts to track how well it performs. Sorry if I'm cynical, but it would make for great clinical trials without losing any essential members of society should things go wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Aye, normally here in Las Vegas a plane lands or takes off about every 60 seconds. That is not true at all right now; our skies are mostly empty.
My eldest reports that impromptu shutdowns of ATC centers and towers (due to positive Covid tests) are not a huge problem since so few are in the air now. In one case, the jetliners simply sorted themselves into the traffic pattern via radio calls after a tower shut down. In another, he reports an entire ARTCC (traffic ctrl center handling hi altitude flights through large areas) was shut down. So they descended below 10,000 feet and picked their way along using lo altitude airways and contacting towers along the way. He said it's weird doing cross country flights like he used to do in a Cessna, but in a 767.

Last edited by pullin; Today at 09:50 AM.
  #2029  
Old Today, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
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clinical trials are going on elsewhere and the results will require weeks and months to come out hence I am not asking this question to this doctor
Your responses in this thread show the dangers of promoting a medicine based on a hunch. Everybody is universally replying, "good: let's get these trials going and get good science as quickly as we can." But you are insisting that it's worth doing because it might work. Now, it might, but know that people are reacting exactly as you are but with all sorts of other substances: methanol, urine, the garlic I mentioned above, and *not all of them work*. People have died from self-medicating like this. Adding unnecessary deaths over the top because you're too impatient to wait for the science is immoral and unethical.

My father is at serious risk, too, and I'm sure as hell not going to suggest he take this on a whim. I'm telling him to stay home and reduce his risks of contagion to as near zero as possible.
  #2030  
Old Today, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by AdityanathYogi View Post
clinical trials are going on elsewhere and the results will require weeks and months to come out hence I am not asking this question to this doctor
In other words - you're taking the word of this guy (who, yes, is a medical doctor) without any form of proof to back up his theories. Because no with an MD has ever been wrong.



Don't get me wrong - I hope this drug works out. But your unquestioning acceptance smacks more of wishful thinking to me than actual medicine.
  #2031  
Old Today, 11:01 AM
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NYC using parks as temp burial sites.


https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/nyc-...evine/2361777/
  #2032  
Old Today, 11:14 AM
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That is a last resort contingency, not something currently happening.
  #2033  
Old Today, 11:20 AM
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Of interest: I've been watching the stats at worldometers and while our absolute numbers of confirmed cases are still growing, the relative *percentage* is slowing somewhat. I don't know what our current estimated doubling rate is. On April 5th we had about 25,000 new cases (total 336,000), on the 4th we had 34,000 (total 311,000).

I entered recent US total numbers into Excel - and while weekend figures are likely skewed due to processing delays etc. the day to day increases hit a high on March 24th (38% from the day before) and were 8% on April 5th. I did a rolling percentage increase comparing to 4 days earlier, and 4/5's percentage was 56 percent (comparing 4/5 to 4/1) while comparing March 22 to March 18 it was 265%; the 4 day rolling average for the days leading up to 4/5 gradually decreased from 110 (on 3/29) to 91, 81, 73, 70, 69, 65 and 59%.

I can't find the numbers for New York on that site (could have sworn they used to have state-level graphs). It would be very enlightening to see whether NY numbers parallel the national trends.
  #2034  
Old Today, 12:05 PM
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Well, yes
An imposter, then.
  #2035  
Old Today, 12:18 PM
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There's a simple solution to all this. As we saw when Covid tests were almost impossible to obtain, the uber-rich and famous shoved their way to the front of the lines and got them, since they are more equal than the rest of us peasants.
Help me out here but to do the test you basically need the correct ingredients, access to a lab and equipment, and know how to do the test?

Well then couldnt say a rich person with an access to a personal doctor who then has access to a personal lab, then a personal chemist, be able to do the test themselves?

I mean are we talking rich people pushed to the head of the line of a local testing company or did they do it privately? Both of which annoy me but if I was as rich as Bezos I certainly would.

I am reading all kinds of stories about how rich people are doing things like living out on their yachts to going to bug out places to having staff move in with them so I think its plausible.
  #2036  
Old Today, 01:24 PM
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Whenever I read about these people pushing this unproven treatment, I can only think of thalidomide.
  #2037  
Old Today, 01:25 PM
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Whenever I read about these people pushing this unproven treatment, I can only think of thalidomide.
Not quite "unproven", many are saying it can be part of a treatment regimen. But thinking it cures or it prevents is going a bit too far.
  #2038  
Old Today, 01:29 PM
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This is why we cant have nice things:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/tech/...acy/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/us/woody-har...ies-tied-to-5g

Yes folks, it isnt those "wet markets" in china, or viruses- it's 5G wireless telephone service that causes Covid 19!!!!

Bullshit, of course.
  #2039  
Old Today, 01:41 PM
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NYC using parks as temp burial sites.


https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/nyc-...evine/2361777/
Well, says they're contemplating it. However, I think a more sensible headline would read "Mandatory Cremation Planned for COVID-19 Victims." Meat worship funerals are something we really can't afford in a pandemic. Cremate the victims, and the families can bury a coffin with an urn in it at some later date if they're really adamant about it.
  #2040  
Old Today, 02:29 PM
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UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who was hospitalized yesterday for treatment of COVID-19 (with which he had been diagnosed about a week ago), has just been moved to intensive care, as per BBC News:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52192604

Foreign Secretary Domenic Raab is apparently acting in the role of Prime Minister at the moment.
  #2041  
Old Today, 02:30 PM
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Boris Johnson has been moved to intensive care... wow. His fiance is currently pregnant - she must be scared silly.
  #2042  
Old Today, 03:20 PM
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After the Republican legislature refused to postpone the Wisconsin election, the governor has issued an executive order to postpone it.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...lection-168527
  #2043  
Old Today, 04:24 PM
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I already reported today's big news from Austria, about the impending gradual lifting of the lockdown, in a previous post. Here's what else has happened today:
  • Since Wednesday last week supermarkets have been distributing face masks for free. As of today, the wearing of face coverings while shopping is a legal requirement. And also as of today, many supermarkets are charging €1 per mask, though they are prohibited by law from profiting on such sales.
  • The government has increased funding for its aid to cover the wages and salaries of laid-off employees, from €1 billion to €3 billion.
  • The state of Upper Austria is planning some sort of one-off financial reward for its health care workers, which could take the form of tax relief or a 15th salary. (Fun fact: in Austria, "monthly" salaries are paid 14 times per year rather than 12.)
  • The housing market is effectively frozen; with the government-imposed restrictions on movement, nobody is showing or visiting properties for sale or to rent. For this reason, the government has said that if your current housing rental contract expires during the coronavirus crisis, then you have the right to unilaterally extend it to the end of the year. This way your landlord cannot evict you for staying past the end of the originally agreed term.
  • Border controls with Austria's neighbouring countries will remain in place for at least another 20 days, according to the interior minister.
  • The entire state of Tyrol was placed under a strict quarantine some time ago; this will be lifted tomorrow.
  • Nationwide, electricity usage is down 13%.
  • Current statistics: 12,297 confirmed infections, 220 deaths, 3463 recovered.
  #2044  
Old Today, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Zappa View Post
Of interest: I've been watching the stats at worldometers and while our absolute numbers of confirmed cases are still growing, the relative *percentage* is slowing somewhat. I don't know what our current estimated doubling rate is. On April 5th we had about 25,000 new cases (total 336,000), on the 4th we had 34,000 (total 311,000).

I entered recent US total numbers into Excel - and while weekend figures are likely skewed due to processing delays etc. the day to day increases hit a high on March 24th (38% from the day before) and were 8% on April 5th. I did a rolling percentage increase comparing to 4 days earlier, and 4/5's percentage was 56 percent (comparing 4/5 to 4/1) while comparing March 22 to March 18 it was 265%; the 4 day rolling average for the days leading up to 4/5 gradually decreased from 110 (on 3/29) to 91, 81, 73, 70, 69, 65 and 59%.

I can't find the numbers for New York on that site (could have sworn they used to have state-level graphs). It would be very enlightening to see whether NY numbers parallel the national trends.
Isn't some of that pattern due to the fact that each increase is part of a larger total? If the absolute number of new cases is relatively steady, then it would naturally be a smaller percentage increase at each iteration. I don't know how you account for that. Because I want you to be right about a decreasing rate of increase.
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