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  #1  
Old 10-05-2005, 02:19 PM
rainy rainy is offline
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How long does a warning (speeding) stay on the books?

I got pulled over by the Georgia State Patrol yesterday for speeding, but thankfully only got a warning. My assumption is that if I were to get pulled over again, it would be automatically a ticket once the officer sees I have been issued a warning once, no matter what his intent when he pulled me over, or how slight my infraction.

Anyone know how long that warning will be 'active?' Will it ever drop out of the system? Or has it been added to the dreaded..."permanent record."

-rainy
  #2  
Old 10-05-2005, 06:10 PM
AllShookDown AllShookDown is offline
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The time I got a warning, a Wisconsin state trooper said something like, "this is between you and me." I got a slip of paper but I assume it never went into the computer. I processed insurance policies for many years and I don't recall seeing an MVR (motor vehicle record) with a warning for a moving violation. I haven't worked in that area for 10 years though so I could be wrong.
  #3  
Old 10-06-2005, 11:37 AM
rainy rainy is offline
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Originally Posted by AllShookDown
I got a slip of paper but I assume it never went into the computer.
Yeah, what I got looked like a note from a "while you were out" pad. I hope it doesn't go into the computer, so that maybe my charming personality can get me out of another ticket if I get caught.

-rainy
  #4  
Old 10-06-2005, 11:40 AM
Q.E.D. Q.E.D. is offline
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Uh, silly question, but why not just not speed? That way you don't have to worry about getting caught.
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:11 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Most police departments have an internal computer system. This is used to record contacts of people with that particular department. While in most places it is considered an open public record, the only way to see such info is to go inside the station and request to see it. This means that if you get stopped & warned and they put it on their computer, only officers from THAT particular department are going to be advised of the previous warning if you're stopped again. Other departments won't have such info because it wasn't them that stopped & warned you. Info on warnings usually are not shared because it's a petty contact.

Also, it won't show up on your driving record as it wasn't a conviction of anything. Just a warning.

I believe we keep contact information on our computer for 10 years, except traffic warnings which remain for 1 year. But only if it was a written warning. Verbal warnings are not entered.
  #6  
Old 10-06-2005, 12:46 PM
UncleBeer UncleBeer is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites
This means that if you get stopped & warned and they put it on their computer, only officers from THAT particular department are going to be advised of the previous warning if you're stopped again. Other departments won't have such info because it wasn't them that stopped & warned you. Info on warnings usually are not shared because it's a petty contact.

Also, it won't show up on your driving record as it wasn't a conviction of anything. Just a warning.
How can both of these be true?
  #7  
Old 10-06-2005, 01:07 PM
rainy rainy is offline
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Originally Posted by Q.E.D.
Uh, silly question, but why not just not speed? That way you don't have to worry about getting caught.
Yeah, well a few years ago that was my position. But I've been jaded by my horrible commute and my foot has grown significantly heavier. In fact I find it amusing to notice that I speed past all the license plates of counties I pass through to get home, and am in turn left in the dust by those with much longer commutes than I have. I'm thinking of coining it as "The Law of the Commute."

-rainy
  #8  
Old 10-06-2005, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UncleBeer
How can both of these be true?
I don't see any conflict. Or am I missing something?
  #9  
Old 10-06-2005, 03:29 PM
Raguleader Raguleader is offline
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Originally Posted by UncleBeer
How can both of these be true?
The first statement refered to records kept internally by each Police Precinct.

The second statement refered to the driving record the State keeps for you. If the local police department doesn't pass the information up to the state's DMV (or DPS, or whatever they call it in your state) then it never goes onto your driving record. That said, if the department that your traffic cop was from keeps records of warnings for it's own reference, you probably won't be able to talk your way out of the next ticket.
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Old 10-06-2005, 10:48 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Originally Posted by Raguleader
The first statement refered to records kept internally by each Police Precinct.

The second statement refered to the driving record the State keeps for you. If the local police department doesn't pass the information up to the state's DMV (or DPS, or whatever they call it in your state) then it never goes onto your driving record. That said, if the department that your traffic cop was from keeps records of warnings for it's own reference, you probably won't be able to talk your way out of the next ticket.

Exactly.

FYI most PD's keep a record of most contacts, whether it's an arrest or even if your a complainant. Most of these are considered public information (depending on where you live) and you can walk into the station and ask to run a name, an address, or both, through the public information computer, and you'll get to see everything that's happened regarding that name or that address you run. It's a great way to check up on somebody. Just remember, the info in that computer will only be contacts made by that particular department.
  #11  
Old 10-07-2005, 08:51 AM
Raguleader Raguleader is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites
Exactly.

FYI most PD's keep a record of most contacts, whether it's an arrest or even if your a complainant. Most of these are considered public information (depending on where you live) and you can walk into the station and ask to run a name, an address, or both, through the public information computer, and you'll get to see everything that's happened regarding that name or that address you run. It's a great way to check up on somebody. Just remember, the info in that computer will only be contacts made by that particular department.
Would they keep a record of you coming in to look at someone's records? And if that person checked to see if you checked on them, would it keep a record that they had done so?
  #12  
Old 10-07-2005, 12:33 PM
UncleBeer UncleBeer is offline
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Originally Posted by Who_me?
I don't see any conflict. Or am I missing something?
Nope. It's me. I think I read "won't" as "will."
  #13  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:53 PM
Schpongle Schpongle is offline
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Cx

I have a question for Reguleader, what if I was pulled over in my dump truck and given a warning by a State Trooper seeing as that's the state would he enter it into the states system? Seeing as he's not a county or city officer.

Thanks in advance!
  #14  
Old 11-17-2017, 02:35 PM
Doug K. Doug K. is offline
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Originally Posted by Schpongle View Post
I have a question for Reguleader, what if I was pulled over in my dump truck and given a warning by a State Trooper seeing as that's the state would he enter it into the states system? Seeing as he's not a county or city officer.

Thanks in advance!
This conversation ended more than ten years ago. You might not get a reply.
  #15  
Old 11-17-2017, 05:56 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Originally Posted by Q.E.D. View Post
Uh, silly question, but why not just not speed? That way you don't have to worry about getting caught.
Because then you'll get rear-ended by other drivers who are 'moving at the speed of the traffic'?

Because most of the speed limits on roads are now set by a political process, rather than the expertise of traffic engineers or road designers. We have many roads designed for an expected speed, with various design elements built-in to subtly encourage drivers to stay near that speed -- but now the speed limit there is less than that design speed. So drivers routinely ignore these political speed limits, all over the country.
  #16  
Old 11-17-2017, 08:09 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
FYI most PD's keep a record of most contacts, whether it's an arrest or even if your a complainant. Most of these are considered public information (depending on where you live) and you can walk into the station and ask to run a name, an address, or both, through the public information computer, and you'll get to see everything that's happened regarding that name or that address you run. It's a great way to check up on somebody. Just remember, the info in that computer will only be contacts made by that particular department.
There has been some changes since this zombie was laid to rest.

Fist of all, contact information now can be seen by other agencies in the area that share mobile data terminal use. That means if a trooper or an officer for any department in Milwaukee/Waukesha/Ozaukee/Racine County pulled you over and made contact with you, even if it was just a warning, I'll be able to see it on my data terminal if I pull you over later, for about 30 days. This capability previously did not exist. The warning does not go n your state driving record, so please don't misread what I'm saying.

Secondly, what you'll see if you go into a agency and look at their public information computer has changed drastically, and not for the better. Due to a misinterpretation of a court case (2013 IIRC), a lot of jurisdictions are redacting [blacking out] pertinent information on their reports available to the public. This makes the reports useless. So if you want to know why there was a police car at your neighbors house it may say what address they were at and why, but it will be blacked out who they spoke to and had contact with.

This is absolutely freaking ridiculous. If it's a traffic accident eventually you can get the info on a state accident report, and if there is an arrest you can get the information by going to the court house and looking at the file. But for a lot of areas just simple contacts at the local PD are blacked out. This, like I said, is due to a misinterpretation of a court ruling. It's not the decision of the law enforcement agencies doing this but the local city attorneys or county corporation counsels. And not all jurisdictions are doing this so YMMV.
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:26 AM
Raguleader Raguleader is offline
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This conversation ended more than ten years ago. You might not get a reply.
Yeah, I mean, who knows if that guy is even still on here?

As for what databases it would be put into, I dunno, not a cop.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2017, 06:08 PM
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I would play it safe for at least 30 days. The safest thing to do is go a little bit slower than most of the traffic around you. Out of any group of ten cars, don't try to be the slowest one and don't try to be the fastest one. Be the fourth slowest car. Three are slower than you and six are faster than you. The faster car is the one who is most likely to get pulled over. Don't be that car. If two cars pass you for every one car you pass, then you're doing it right.

FWIW, when I lived in TN twenty years ago, I twice got tickets where the judge gave me probation and said that the record would be expunged if I had no other moving violations for 30 days. I know that's not the same thing as a warning, but it gives a data point for comparison.
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Old 11-19-2017, 12:52 PM
edwardcoast edwardcoast is offline
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Originally Posted by Q.E.D. View Post
Uh, silly question, but why not just not speed? That way you don't have to worry about getting caught.
Because people are childish and self-centered and think they know better about breaking the law.

Seriously, people should just put on a podcast, set the cruse control and drive safely. So many idiots out there with speeding it is sick. If someone needs so badly to arrive sooner, then leave earlier.
  #20  
Old 11-19-2017, 08:52 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Replies to Q.E.D.'s post:

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Originally Posted by edwardcoast View Post
Because people are childish and self-centered and think they know better about breaking the law.

Seriously, people should just put on a podcast, set the cruse control and drive safely. So many idiots out there with speeding it is sick. If someone needs so badly to arrive sooner, then leave earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net
Because then you'll get rear-ended by other drivers who are 'moving at the speed of the traffic'?

Because most of the speed limits on roads are now set by a political process, rather than the expertise of traffic engineers or road designers. We have many roads designed for an expected speed, with various design elements built-in to subtly encourage drivers to stay near that speed -- but now the speed limit there is less than that design speed. So drivers routinely ignore these political speed limits, all over the country.
Q.E.D. died in 2009.
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2017, 01:12 AM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Because people are childish and self-centered and think they know better about breaking the law.
Maybe. But keep in mind that traffic violations are the only offense that the law has an established "warning".

Petty theft, misdemeanor battery, disorderly conduct, etc, etc.. None of those infractions have clauses in the law that allow for you to be told "don't do it again" and set you on your way.

This is because the law recognizes people slip up now and then and as a society we've established a mercy clause of sorts. I think everybody would be miserable if every single time they got stopped they got an expensive fine, demerit points, and higher insurance premiums.

It's been tried and it did not lead to higher compliance rates nor safer roads.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2017, 04:04 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Because then you'll get rear-ended by other drivers who are 'moving at the speed of the traffic'?
They'll be the ones paying for my repair bills since they were at fault and driving recklessly.

Quote:
Because most of the speed limits on roads are now set by a political process, rather than the expertise of traffic engineers or road designers. We have many roads designed for an expected speed, with various design elements built-in to subtly encourage drivers to stay near that speed -- but now the speed limit there is less than that design speed. So drivers routinely ignore these political speed limits, all over the country.
Those drivers can get tickets if they want. I've never once gotten a ticket for not speeding.
  #23  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:02 AM
Boozahol Squid, P.I. Boozahol Squid, P.I. is offline
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Maybe. But keep in mind that traffic violations are the only offense that the law has an established "warning".

Petty theft, misdemeanor battery, disorderly conduct, etc, etc.. None of those infractions have clauses in the law that allow for you to be told "don't do it again" and set you on your way.
I don't think this is true. I've seen plenty of instances where cops have broken up a fight without hauling both participants into jail, or have told a bunch of college students to quiet down and go inside without citing them for drunken disorderly (or is it drunk and disorderly?) conduct.
  #24  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:13 AM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
Maybe. But keep in mind that traffic violations are the only offense that the law has an established "warning".

Petty theft, misdemeanor battery, disorderly conduct, etc, etc.. None of those infractions have clauses in the law that allow for you to be told "don't do it again" and set you on your way.
Traffic violations are civil offenses. All of the others you list are criminal offenses.
  #25  
Old 11-20-2017, 10:33 AM
whitetho whitetho is online now
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Yeah, I mean, who knows if that guy is even still on here?
You're alive! We thought you was [turned into] a toad!

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  #26  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:03 AM
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Yeah, I mean, who knows if that guy is even still on here?
Twelve years!!!! Dang, my foot still unconsciously comes off the accelerator on that strip of road.

-rainy
  #27  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:57 AM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Traffic violations are civil offenses. All of the others you list are criminal offenses.
First of all, irrelevant. Name one other violation of law that has a clause that allows for a peace officer to just warn you and not charge it. Traffic infractions routinely have 3 outcomes: Citation, Written warning, verbal warning. Name any other violation of law that has a statutory allowance for a warning with no charges issued.

Second of all, you are incorrect, at least regarding my jurisdiction. Petty theft, battery, and disorderly conduct can all be charged as civil (non-criminal) ordinance violation. So mlah.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:15 PM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
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Originally Posted by CookingWithGas View Post
Traffic violations are civil offenses. All of the others you list are criminal offenses.
Ummm.....not in Texas. The majority of traffic violations are Class C misdemeanors, punishable by fine only. However, if there is injury or property damage or impairment of some sort (booze,drugs, etc.), the seriousness of the offense goes up, and can go into the felony levels.
  #29  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:24 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Second of all, you are incorrect, at least regarding my jurisdiction.
Which is what?
  #30  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:32 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
Name one other violation of law that has a clause that allows for a peace officer to just warn you and not charge it.
In many jurisdictions (possibly most, possibly all, too many to cite) LEOs have power of discretion. Here is policy from Fredericksburg, Va., and the law is cited within. (PDF file) This is not just for traffic violations.
Quote:
The Chief of Police delegates to each sworn police officer of this Department the authority of
providing alternatives to arrest, as described in these Codes. The Fredericksburg Police Department authorizes the following alternatives to custodial arrest:
Release on Summons
Written Warning
Verbal Warning
Intake Referral (Juveniles)
I'll research your jurisdiction if you reveal it.
  #31  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:16 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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I don't think this is true. I've seen plenty of instances where cops have broken up a fight without hauling both participants into jail, or have told a bunch of college students to quiet down and go inside without citing them for drunken disorderly (or is it drunk and disorderly?) conduct.
Yes, but the law [for the most part] does not specifically establish a warning system for such violations. Discretion and a statutory establishment of warnings is not the same thing. Some of you need to understand the difference between the two.
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  #32  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:22 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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LEOs have power of discretion[
Like I said, discretion and a statutory establishment of a warning system are not the same thing.
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  #33  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:21 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Like I said, discretion and a statutory establishment of a warning system are not the same thing.
Please cite statute from the jurisdiction of your choice that establishes a warning system for violation of any law of your choice.
  #34  
Old 11-21-2017, 03:31 AM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Please cite statute from the jurisdiction of your choice that establishes a warning system for violation of any law of your choice.
There isn't. That's my point. But for traffic there is a written warning citation that is almost identical to an actual UTC. In the space where the fine/deposit is usually written is the term N/A. On the top it says "Notice of Violation". And on the bottom it says "Warning". Then there is a space for the actual violation and such. The back has an area for notes and says WI DOT on it.

I don't have the option of using something like this for any other violation of law. If I get dispatched to a supermarket because the store detective nabbed a shoplifter I don't have a warning cite for ordinance retail theft. It just doesn't exist. I suppose a local municipality could have them on their own but I've never seen them.

ETA: I almost never use the written warnings. Why would I go through the hassle of writing all that out for a warning when I can just issue a verbal? Their legal consequence are the same.
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  #35  
Old 11-21-2017, 01:33 PM
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
There isn't. That's my point. But for traffic there is a written warning citation that is almost identical to an actual UTC. In the space where the fine/deposit is usually written is the term N/A. On the top it says "Notice of Violation". And on the bottom it says "Warning". Then there is a space for the actual violation and such. The back has an area for notes and says WI DOT on it.

I don't have the option of using something like this for any other violation of law.
The fact that the citations are printed like that doesn't mean it's statutory. You said "statutory establishment of a warning system" and I am looking for the statute.

I take it that you are an LEO.

Last edited by CookingWithGas; 11-21-2017 at 01:33 PM.
  #36  
Old 11-23-2017, 07:03 AM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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The fact that the citations are printed like that doesn't mean it's statutory. You said "statutory establishment of a warning system" and I am looking for the statute.

I take it that you are an LEO.
Dang. The gophers ate my reply. That hasn't happened in ages.


I think I have a warning ticket book in my squad briefcase. IIRC on the back it says something akin to "under the authority of SS#xxx (state statute). I haven't issued one of those for a long time so I'm going off memory here. I'm on vacation now for a couple of weeks so I'll dig it out and see what it says when I get back to work.

I have no idea what happens to those warning cites after the agency copy gets turned in to the Lt's box. I've handed out so few written warnings (as opposed to the multitude of verbal warnings) that I've never really given it a thought.
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  #37  
Old 11-24-2017, 12:02 AM
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The mention of written vs verbal warnings reminds me of the continuum of discipline the Air Force has, with everything from verbal warnings all the way up to a Court Martial (the idea being to fix the Airman while it's a minor problem rather than waiting for it to get bit enough to drop the hammer on).

One of the more amusing bits of practice is that the lowest bit of official paperwork is a Letter of Counseling. The bit before there's any paperwork is the Verbal Counseling... which we're supposed to create a written record of via a Memorandum which both the supervisor and the troop sign, so the supervisor can prove the verbal counseling happened later on.

That's right, we have to create paperwork to document our specifically non-paperwork processes, because if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen.
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  #38  
Old 11-26-2017, 08:01 PM
Raguleader Raguleader is offline
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As it happens, I can tell you that as of, oh, this morning, the Utah State Patrol issues written warnings in the form of a printed report with your car registration and driver's license info, as well as the name and badge number of the officer who ticketed you. It's very official-looking. Didn't feel it was the most advantageous time to ask the officer how long they keep that in their system or who all gets to see it.
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  #39  
Old 11-26-2017, 08:11 PM
Lord Mondegreen Lord Mondegreen is offline
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Twelve years!!!! Dang, my foot still unconsciously comes off the accelerator on that strip of road.

-rainy
Which says to me that the LEO made the right decision. He sent you a message without making you suffer financially and you heeded the message, even after 12 years.

Sounds like a good result all round. (Unless of course that is the only bit of road on which you slow down )
  #40  
Old 11-26-2017, 09:19 PM
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I got pulled over one time and received a written warning from a cop that I stuck in the center console. About 6 months later I got pulled over by a different cop and when I opened my center console to get my wallet he saw the warning and told me to hand it over. After he read the date and saw it was half a year old he left me off with you guessed it, another warning, I promptly disposed of that one at the next gas station
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  #41  
Old 11-27-2017, 10:37 AM
Boozahol Squid, P.I. Boozahol Squid, P.I. is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
Yes, but the law [for the most part] does not specifically establish a warning system for such violations. Discretion and a statutory establishment of warnings is not the same thing. Some of you need to understand the difference between the two.
I understand the difference, I just don't know that there actually is a formal establishment of warnings in the law. I await the end of your vacation so you can cite whatever statute your state has set up for warnings, but my Google-fu isn't bringing up state statutes establishing a formal warning system. Given the nature of them as discretionary, I would imagine they'd be awkward laws to write.
  #42  
Old 11-27-2017, 12:26 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozahol Squid, P.I. View Post
I understand the difference, I just don't know that there actually is a formal establishment of warnings in the law. I await the end of your vacation so you can cite whatever statute your state has set up for warnings, but my Google-fu isn't bringing up state statutes establishing a formal warning system. Given the nature of them as discretionary, I would imagine they'd be awkward laws to write.
They also have the same effect on a driving record as a verbal warning, which is they arent posted. But its a tool that helps people assess their driving habits more so than a verbal warning (until they throw it in the trash, of course).

Some of our squads have a printer hooked up to the mobile data terminal that automatically prints out a cite. But mine doesnt. I have to write by hand so if its a warning Im not going to spend the time and energy writing it out when I can just do it verbally.
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  #43  
Old 11-27-2017, 02:44 PM
rainy rainy is offline
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Originally Posted by Lord Mondegreen View Post
Sounds like a good result all round. (Unless of course that is the only bit of road on which you slow down )
The funny part is that the section of road I got the warning on is probably the safest place to go really fast. It is the on-ramp interchange section for a highway project that never got built. So it is basically three miles of straight, limited access, highway with excellent visibility (with the possible exception of where that trooper was sitting, but in my defense I thought it was someone parked to go fishing in the nearby lake) and the lowest speed limit of any of the surrounding divided highway. But yes, I housebreak easily.
  #44  
Old 11-28-2017, 02:43 PM
Boozahol Squid, P.I. Boozahol Squid, P.I. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
They also have the same effect on a driving record as a verbal warning, which is they arent posted. But its a tool that helps people assess their driving habits more so than a verbal warning (until they throw it in the trash, of course).

Some of our squads have a printer hooked up to the mobile data terminal that automatically prints out a cite. But mine doesnt. I have to write by hand so if its a warning Im not going to spend the time and energy writing it out when I can just do it verbally.
I've gotten written warnings on what looked exactly like a regular citation print-out, one hand-written on what looked like the sort of "traffic book" that might come with a Halloween cop costume, and even one in postcard form that I was supposed to fix the issue I was being warned about (a broken taillight,) find a police officer to witness that it was corrected, and mail back to the officer in question. All of these in the same city. That's what's lead me to believe that (at least in my town) there's no legal framework for a traffic warning, and that a cop forcing a litterer to pick up all the trash on a section of sidewalk rather than citing him, or dressing down a jaywalker, is doing just the same as a cop handing out a written traffic warning.
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