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Old 12-08-2019, 03:47 AM
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Southerners and the Baptist Religion.


Why is it when you go to the South of the USA almost everyone is a Baptist? Sometimes you'll find an Italian or Greek person, and even they will be of the Baptist religion?

How did so many people get converted apparently en masse? When did it happen? And how does religious freedom and the separation of church and state factor in it?

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Old 12-08-2019, 04:04 AM
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Having an Italian or Greek lastname doesn't make someone Italian or Greek. A lot of those people will have already been born into a Baptist family, same as those with English, German or French lastnames; I note you do not expect these to be Episcopalian, Lutheran, Catholic, Animist or Muslim. Others may have been through different denominations along their lives. Religious freedom allows people of any genetic, religious and cultural background to practice whichever religion they want to.
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Old 12-08-2019, 04:32 AM
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There's a Baptist church on every corner. The smallest hamlets will have 3 or 4 baptist churches.
There's also many split offs from the basic Baptist church:
Southern Baptist
Missionary Baptist
Hard shell Baptist
More I cannot remember.
The separation of church and state has nothing to do with it except it keeps the state out of the church and church out of the state.
IMHO
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Old 12-08-2019, 04:50 AM
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Baptists come in many divergent varieties, and formal seminary training is not required in many groups, unlike more mainstream denominations. Thus it's pretty easy to self-ordain and setup an independent church with certain tax benefits.
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Old 12-08-2019, 05:29 AM
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In the years before the Civil War (sometime around the 1840s, I think), the Baptist church in the south split over the issue of slavery. The new Southern Baptist faction was opposed to abolition and was also opposed to civil rights for blacks (even if they were freemen), so you can see how it might be fairly popular in the South, given the beliefs of most Southerners at that time.

If you compare that to other churches, the Methodists for example were also split over the issue of slavery, with northern Methodists strongly opposed to it and southern Methodists being much more tolerant of it. However, unlike the Baptists, the southern Methodists were not as clearly supportive of slavery. Southern Baptist clergy were free to own slaves. Southern Methodist clergy were not supposed to own slaves (though some did). Most other protestant Christian religions in the south held similar views (i.e. the official position of the church was that they tolerated slavery but did not recommend it).

The Catholic church didn't split, but while the Pope vocally opposed slavery, church leaders in the U.S. were much more ambivalent about the issue.

If you are a white southern racist in the 1800s, are you going to feel more welcome in the church that openly supports your racism and slavery, or are you going to feel more welcome in the church that only tolerates it and recommends against it, or only locally supports slavery while the church's leadership opposes it? You are going to go to the church that openly supports racism and slavery, of course.

Quakers were strongly opposed to slavery, and were largely responsible for getting the whole abolition movement going in the North. Their strong anti-slavery stance was probably the strongest factor preventing the Quaker religion from spreading into the South.

Many black slaves were introduced to Christianity through the Baptist church. Many evangelicals thought that it was their duty to bring Christianity to the slaves. Note that both pro-slave and anti-slave factions of the Baptists both used various Bible passages to support their claims. In most areas of the South, blacks were not allowed to lead churches, so blacks had to go to white churches (they were segregated, of course, with pews specifically for whites only and other pews set aside for blacks). After the Civil War, blacks were finally allowed to lead their own churches, so they split off from the white churches and formed their own branches of the Baptist church.

I don't know enough about the Baptist church to say why they remained popular through the 20th century and to modern times, but the Baptist church certainly got a large boost during the 19th century due to the divisive issue of slavery and the fact that the church split into factions that strongly supported that faction's beliefs.

Last edited by engineer_comp_geek; 12-08-2019 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 12-08-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
There's a Baptist church on every corner. The smallest hamlets will have 3 or 4 baptist churches.
There's also many split offs from the basic Baptist church:
Southern Baptist
Missionary Baptist
Hard shell Baptist
More I cannot remember.
The separation of church and state has nothing to do with it except it keeps the state out of the church and church out of the state.
IMHO
============================================

That's how its work in THEORY but listen to all those Baptisst et all calling Hilary Clinton Satan's spawn, and Barak Obama the same or the antichrist...then you'll get a true idea of how much religious groups stay out of politics.
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Old 12-08-2019, 06:39 PM
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Thus it's pretty easy to self-ordain and setup an independent church with certain tax benefits.
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There's a Baptist church on every corner.
In Pico-Union/Koreatown there's a storefront Evangelical church squeezed in somewhere practically in the middle of every block.

I've often thought that, if I ever fall upon really hard times, I can always put on a suit, borrow a tambourine, rent out a cheap storefront, brush up on my Pentecostal Spanish, and easily get by with a new career.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:30 PM
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What is a “hard shell Baptist”?

I have an image of a church where the pastor wears a lobster costume?
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Old 12-08-2019, 09:14 PM
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What is a “hard shell Baptist”?

I have an image of a church where the pastor wears a lobster costume?
Primitive Baptists who are opposed to mission societies and, for most of them, the use of musical instruments in worship:
Quote:
Primitive Baptists – also known as Hard Shell Baptists, Foot Washing Baptists or Old School Baptists – are conservative Baptists adhering to a degree of Calvinist beliefs that coalesced out of the controversy among Baptists in the early 19th century over the appropriateness of mission boards, tract societies, and temperance societies.[1][2] The adjective "primitive" in the name is used in the sense of "original".[1]

[snip]

Primitive Baptists generally do not play musical instruments as part of their worship services.[11] They believe that all church music should be a cappella because there is no New Testament command to play instruments, but only to sing.[10] Further, they connect musical instruments in the Old Testament with "many forms and customs, many types and shadows, many priests with priestly robes, many sacrifices, festivals, tithings" which they see as having been abolished; "had they been needed in the church Christ would have brought them over".[10]

African-American Primitive Baptists may not share the general Primitive Baptist opposition to musical instruments, however.[12]
A subset of Hard-Shell Baptists are Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists:
Quote:
Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists are part of a larger sub-group of Baptists that is commonly referred to as "anti-mission" Baptists. This sub-group includes the Duck River and Kindred Baptists, Old Regular Baptists, some Regular Baptists and some United Baptists. Only a minuscule minority of Primitive Baptists adhere to the Two-Seed doctrine. The primary centers of Two-Seedism were in Northern Alabama, Arkansas, Eastern Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, and Texas.[1][2][3] As of 2002, five churches or congregations of this faith and order still existed in Alabama, Indiana, Tennessee, and Texas.[4]
What's this about two seeds? Satan, of course!
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Serpent seed, dual seed or two-seedline is a controversial religious belief which explains the biblical account of the fall of man by saying that the serpent mated with Eve in the Garden of Eden, and the offspring of their union was Cain. It appears in early Gnostic writings such as the Gospel of Philip (c. 350). Irenaeus (c. 180), an early church father, explicitly rejected the doctrine as heresy, a view which was echoed by subsequent mainstream Christian theologians.[1] According to The Celtic Church In Britain, by Leslie Hardinge, the early Celtic church taught the belief in re-telling the seduction of Eve by the serpent.[citation needed]

The serpent-seed doctrine has occasionally been promoted in more recent times, such as by American religious leaders Daniel Parker (1781–1844),[2] William M. Branham (1909–1965),[3]:98 and Arnold Murray (1929–2014). This belief is also held by some adherents of the white supremacist theology known as Christian Identity, who claim that Jews are descended from the serpent.[4][5]
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Last edited by Derleth; 12-08-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 12-08-2019, 09:25 PM
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Why is it when you go to the South of the USA almost everyone is a Baptist?
This is untrue.

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How did so many people get converted apparently en masse? When did it happen? And how does religious freedom and the separation of church and state factor in it?
The Southern Baptist church has historically been a pillar of white supremacy, and the south is chock full of white supremacists (though they call themselves "race realists" now.)

The SBC passed a resolution apologizing for its past behavior in 1995. Many members disliked that, but they haven't deserted the church because (A) it's not like the church is actually doing anything concrete about it, and (B) it's not like there's a more extreme conservative church that people are going to switch to.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:10 PM
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There are about 15 million affiliated with the Southern Baptists, which makes it large but hardly "everybody" when you consider that the South has 124 million people. Plus, it's really, really important to remember that the SB is more than 90% white. If you say "everybody," you're cutting out half the population at a stroke. The SB is a few percent black, and there are other majority black baptist denominations.

It's true that SB is politically and culturally powerful, though, and that makes it stand out. But even as a generalization, "everybody" is a poor one.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:25 PM
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There are a LOT of Methodists, Episcopalians, and especially Catholics in the South.

The Baptists are just the loudest and most nosy of all the denominations, which is why you KNOW when you've met one. "Have you been saved?" "What church do you go to?" are not questions that most denominations will bring up within 5 minutes of meeting you. But they are with Baptists.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:28 PM
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There is a small sect of Universalist Baptists, who believe that God is too loving to not eventually save everyone. The most famous member of this group was probably bluegrass legend Ralph Stanley.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:52 PM
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A lot of it was because how the various Christian sects decided to evangelize. Some of them, like Catholics, built one mission at a time, sending ordained ministers/priests out as fast as they could. Methodists sent out lay ministers, which were a lot more plentiful.

As for the Baptists, well, every time the Baptists had an argument, they split. Baptists didn't really have organized seminaries in the beginning, so anybody who could read a Bible and preach on it could become a minister, which eliminated staffing problems. The Baptists who believed in free will split with the Baptists who believed in predestination. The pro-slavery and anti-slavery Baptists split. Black and white Baptists were split, etc. You could end up with multiple Baptist churches in a small town, each of them a tiny bit different from the others, whereas Lutherans would pretty much have one church for each ethnic group (Germans vs. Scandinavians), and Catholics were limited by how many priests were available.
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:10 AM
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There are a LOT of Methodists, Episcopalians, and especially Catholics in the South.

The Baptists are just the loudest and most nosy of all the denominations, which is why you KNOW when you've met one. "Have you been saved?" "What church do you go to?" are not questions that most denominations will bring up within 5 minutes of meeting you. But they are with Baptists.
There are a lot of Methodists in the south, it's the "second" religion. There aren't many Episcopalians (they're not concentrated in any particular area I think, maybe the northeast). There are very, very few Catholics except in New Orleans (and not necessarily so in all parts of Louisiana). Plus e.g. Cuban and Mexican Catholics in Florida and Texas.

Catholics in the south range from 26% of Louisiana to 4% (!) of Mississippi.
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:45 AM
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I've often thought that, if I ever fall upon really hard times, I can always put on a suit, borrow a tambourine, rent out a cheap storefront, brush up on my Pentecostal Spanish, and easily get by with a new career.
It's an easy path. "Stealin' in the name of the Lord" is traditional. "Preach a little gospel; sell a couple bottles of Doctor Good." Don't forget groping faith-healing, and casting-out-Satan podcast subscriptions. I'll ordain you if you wish. For a percentage.

Bonus plan: Forge a personal ministry to deal hands-on with infidelity, frigidity, substance abuse and dealing, gambling, auto theft, and loss of faith. Be sure to collect tithes - cash or in kind.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:05 AM
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This page has a fair amount of detail on the religious demographics of the southern US.

It seems Baptist denominations make up about 27% of the population (divided into 11% Southern Baptist Convention, 6 % other evangelical Baptist denominations, 3% mainline Baptist denominations, 7% historically Black Baptist denominations). The Catholics clock in at 15%, which makes them the largest single denomination, and the second largest of the Christian traditions, as analysed by Pew. The Methodists aren't the "second religion", according to this data; all Methodist denominations together come in at less than 7%.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:58 AM
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When it happened was during the Second Great Awakening. This was a religious revival movement that swept through the United States from around 1800 to 1830. It was a movement based on emotional religious sermons addressed to very large crowds of people at public gatherings which were aimed at converting large groups of listeners.

There had been some Baptists before the SGA but they were a minor sect. But their message fit in well with the movement and they expanded greatly.

Last edited by Little Nemo; 12-09-2019 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:10 AM
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This page has a fair amount of detail on the religious demographics of the southern US.

It seems Baptist denominations make up about 27% of the population (divided into 11% Southern Baptist Convention, 6 % other evangelical Baptist denominations, 3% mainline Baptist denominations, 7% historically Black Baptist denominations). The Catholics clock in at 15%, which makes them the largest single denomination, and the second largest of the Christian traditions, as analysed by Pew. The Methodists aren't the "second religion", according to this data; all Methodist denominations together come in at less than 7%.
Note, however, that this varies widely across "the South." In Mississippi, e.g., the various Baptist denominations (including historically black churches) include 50% of adults; the Methodists' 6% does place them second, just ahead of the nondenominational evangelical churches (5%) and Catholics and Pentecostal (4% each). Meanwhile, in Texas the Catholics (23%) outnumber the Baptists (20%), doubtless due to the large Hispanic population, whereas in Oklahoma the opposite is true: 30% of adults are Baptist and 8% are Catholic.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:40 AM
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When it happened was during the Second Great Awakening. This was a religious revival movement that swept through the United States from around 1800 to 1830. It was a movement based on emotional religious sermons addressed to very large crowds of people at public gatherings which were aimed at converting large groups of listeners.

There had been some Baptists before the SGA but they were a minor sect. But their message fit in well with the movement and they expanded greatly.
And, as mentioned above, Baptists have the capacity to expand. Baptists lack a hierarchical structure. They lack an educational requirement. They lack an ordination requirement.
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:02 AM
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There are a LOT of Methodists, Episcopalians, and especially Catholics in the South.
Being from the Deep South, I don't think I ever met a Catholic while I was there.

Most of the Catholics in the South are on the edges of the area. Baltimore/DC in the north, New Orleans, and Hispanic populations in South Florida and Texas.
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:23 AM
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Being from the Deep South, I don't think I ever met a Catholic while I was there.

Most of the Catholics in the South are on the edges of the area. Baltimore/DC in the north, New Orleans, and Hispanic populations in South Florida and Texas.
Like the 1.2 million Catholics in Georgia? Or the 200,000 in South Carolina? Or the roughly 400,000 in North Carolina? Or the 673,000 in Virginia (12% of the population)

And I don't know how you can hand-wave away Texas, Florida and Louisiana and say there aren't Catholics in the South.

I wasn't trying to say that most people aren't Baptist, but that there are a whole lot of people there who aren't, but you'd never know it, because the Baptists are so obnoxiously outspoken and up in your business about it.
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:41 AM
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Being from the Deep South, I don't think I ever met a Catholic while I was there.
I met very few Catholics before the Hispanic influx around 20 years ago. Lots of them now. (I can count the number of people that I've met down here that I know to be Jewish I can count on the fingers of one hand.) Oh, and one Buddhist.
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:48 AM
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The Baptist Church was called a frontier religion because it required no hierarchy. This made it much easier to spread in the unsettled South.

As for Louisiana, there are many Catholics outside of New Orleans, though mostly in the southern part of the state. Catholic Cajuns live in most all of southern Louisiana.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:17 AM
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As for the Baptists, well, every time the Baptists had an argument, they split. Baptists didn't really have organized seminaries in the beginning, so anybody who could read a Bible and preach on it could become a minister, which eliminated staffing problems. The Baptists who believed in free will split with the Baptists who believed in predestination. The pro-slavery and anti-slavery Baptists split. Black and white Baptists were split, etc. You could end up with multiple Baptist churches in a small town, each of them a tiny bit different from the others, whereas Lutherans would pretty much have one church for each ethnic group (Germans vs. Scandinavians), and Catholics were limited by how many priests were available.
As Emo Phillips put it (joking/not joking): Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:15 PM
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Like the 1.2 million Catholics in Georgia? Or the 200,000 in South Carolina? Or the roughly 400,000 in North Carolina? Or the 673,000 in Virginia (12% of the population)

And I don't know how you can hand-wave away Texas, Florida and Louisiana and say there aren't Catholics in the South.
I wasn't trying to be offensive, and I didn't say there weren't any. I am just giving my experience.

I grew up in SC. So that 200,000 is only 4%. Which is probably substantially higher than 30 years ago before the Hispanic population grew.

I am just saying I wouldn't not describe that population as "a LOT."
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:48 PM
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The Baptist Church was called a frontier religion because it required no hierarchy. This made it much easier to spread in the unsettled South.

As for Louisiana, there are many Catholics outside of New Orleans, though mostly in the southern part of the state. Catholic Cajuns live in most all of southern Louisiana.
When I lived in Lafayette Catholicism was the default religion. The Baptists were oil people who came from Texas.
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:44 PM
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When it happened was during the Second Great Awakening. This was a religious revival movement that swept through the United States from around 1800 to 1830. It was a movement based on emotional religious sermons addressed to very large crowds of people at public gatherings which were aimed at converting large groups of listeners.

There had been some Baptists before the SGA but they were a minor sect. But their message fit in well with the movement and they expanded greatly.
That's what I was going to post ... the reasons the South has a lot of Baptists are complex, historically, but the Second Great Awakening is a major factor.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:01 PM
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Does my dad's family of West Virginia Quakers count as Southern?

I was in Mexico City five decades ago drinking with an older Gringo who said he was a Free Baptist bishop. He ordained me, no charge except more cheap aguardiente. Voices in my head later promoted me to bishop but I have no ambition to be archbishop or establish a Naked Baptist church adjacent to a WalMart. Am I damned?

Back to demographics. Does anyone have numbers on the economic status of various Southern denominations? Which denominations tend to be richest and poorest?
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:40 PM
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I wasn't trying to be offensive, and I didn't say there weren't any. I am just giving my experience.

I grew up in SC. So that 200,000 is only 4%. Which is probably substantially higher than 30 years ago before the Hispanic population grew.

I am just saying I wouldn't not describe that population as "a LOT."
Maybe not Catholics themselves, but if you roll in Methodists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Lutherans, you have a pretty sizeable number.

I mean, I grew up in Texas, and while Catholicism is pretty popular here, as is Baptist-ism, there were always a whole lot of Methodists around, and a fair number of the other denominations as well, especially as you go up the socio-economic scale. In other words, the poorer someone is, the more likely they are to be Baptist (or Catholic), while the other denominations seem to be more popular among more wealthy people.

That actually tracks with this study as well:

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-l...-distribution/
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:48 PM
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Pedant alert.

There is no "Southern Baptist Church." There are Southern Baptist churches. Individual churches are fully autonomous, unlike many other denominations. Individual churches may voluntarily join the Southern Baptist Convention, but the SBC has no actual authority over the actions of the individual churches (other than to expel them or otherwise express displeasure).

The individual churches may vary a great deal in their attitudes and actions. My former wife was ordained as a minister in a Southern Baptist church in the 1980s. I have attended several same-sex unions at Southern Baptist churches as far back as 1993. Now, the SBC wasn't happy about these events, but that's a story for another time.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:03 PM
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There are a lot of Methodists in the south, it's the "second" religion. There aren't many Episcopalians (they're not concentrated in any particular area I think, maybe the northeast). There are very, very few Catholics except in New Orleans (and not necessarily so in all parts of Louisiana). Plus e.g. Cuban and Mexican Catholics in Florida and Texas.

Catholics in the south range from 26% of Louisiana to 4% (!) of Mississippi.
Depends on what one means by "the South". We have a lot of Catholics in Texas. Texas may or may not be considered South depending on the situation.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:40 PM
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Depends on what one means by "the South". We have a lot of Catholics in Texas. Texas may or may not be considered South depending on the situation.
Texas is simultaneously the south and a region that can only be called "Texas."

Louisiana is still more Catholic, but as noted upthread it's not as strongly so as you might expect from Mardi Gras and other cultural depictions.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:31 PM
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There is a small sect of Universalist Baptists, who believe that God is too loving to not eventually save everyone. The most famous member of this group was probably bluegrass legend Ralph Stanley.
Yes. Ralph Stanley was a Primitive Baptist Universalist. Primitive Baptists generally believe in predestination with regard to salvation, with PBUs believing that everyone is predestined to go to heaven.

Non-universalist Primitive Baptists often refer to the Universalists as "No hellers."

Last edited by breezman; 12-09-2019 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:04 PM
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Pedant alert.

There is no "Southern Baptist Church." There are Southern Baptist churches. Individual churches are fully autonomous, unlike many other denominations. Individual churches may voluntarily join the Southern Baptist Convention, but the SBC has no actual authority over the actions of the individual churches (other than to expel them or otherwise express displeasure).
Which is why I once saw a sign that read "4th Baptist Church, Reformed" and I thought "There's somebody in there that doesn't get along with anybody!"
  #36  
Old 12-09-2019, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Does my dad's family of West Virginia Quakers count as Southern?
Probably not for this discussion.

West Virginia became a state because the Civil War. That part of Virginia was more closely allied culturally to the northern states. People in that area generally did not own slaves, and did not want to secede from the Union. When Virginia left the Union, West Virginia left Virginia.

Since there wasn't much slavery in that area before the state formed, Quakers with their strong anti-slavery sentiments would have been quite welcome there.

West Virginia started out mostly Presbyterian, because that's who settled there first. During the first half of the 1800s, Methodists and Baptists converted a lot of other protestant religions. Methodists came to dominate the state. There are plenty of Baptists in the state, but not in the same proportions that you see in states further south. The most popular religion in the years leading up to the Civil War were the "northern" Methodists, who were more strongly opposed to slavery than Methodists in southern states. To this day, Methodists remain the most popular religion.

In other discussions, you might want to group West Virginia differently. Culturally, West Virginia is Appalachian, so it shares a lot of that culture with Tennessee and Kentucky.

And in more rural areas you'll find a lot of yahoos with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks, which I never understood. It's like dude, you remember why we became a state, right?

Some people put the north-south divide at the Mason-Dixon line, which means that only us folks who are from the northern panhandle (like me) are technically northern. The accent does change a bit and becomes more of a southern drawl once you get below the Mason-Dixon line.
  #37  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:17 PM
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The Pew Forum website has a breakdown and statistics by state and by region:
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/
  #38  
Old 12-09-2019, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Back to demographics. Does anyone have numbers on the economic status of various Southern denominations? Which denominations tend to be richest and poorest?
In the Pew study that gkster and bump linked to, if you drill down to the Southern region, and "Evangelical Protestants" (which is going to include the Baptists, among others), you see:
- 36% make less than $30,000 a year
- 22% make between $30,000 and $49,999

Compare that to "Mainline Protestants" (e.g., Methodists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc.) in the South:
Catholics:
- 27% under $30,000
- 17% between $30,000 and $49,999

Not a *huge* difference, but the Evangelicals are, indeed, more likely to be lower income.
  #39  
Old 12-09-2019, 11:11 PM
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Not a *huge* difference, but the Evangelicals are, indeed, more likely to be lower income.
I asked a friend about this; she grew up in Georgia and has lived near me in the Northeast for several years. She said that her mom was proud of being Methodist because that meant they were a cut above the Baptists, even though they weren't really well-off either.
  #40  
Old 12-10-2019, 01:42 AM
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Texas is simultaneously the south and a region that can only be called "Texas."

Louisiana is still more Catholic, but as noted upthread it's not as strongly so as you might expect from Mardi Gras and other cultural depictions.
Northern Louisiana, Monroe and Alexandria, is a lot more traditionally southern.
As Justin Wilson said of a small town called Bunkie, right in the middle of the state "the Dixon and Mason line runs right through Bunkie" to Cajuns.
  #41  
Old 12-10-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Back to demographics. Does anyone have numbers on the economic status of various Southern denominations? Which denominations tend to be richest and poorest?
I'll poke through Pew, but I imagine Episcopalians are among the richest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
And in more rural areas you'll find a lot of yahoos with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks, which I never understood. It's like dude, you remember why we became a state, right?
You can find Confederate flags everywhere. Including Sweden for some reason.
  #42  
Old 12-10-2019, 02:59 PM
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I'll poke through Pew, but I imagine Episcopalians are among the richest.
I did so, and can't find a more affluent Christian group. Only greater are Jewish and Hindu (latter same percentage of >$100k, more $50k to $100k)
  #43  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:09 PM
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I'll poke through Pew, but I imagine Episcopalians are among the richest.
But the Presbyterians are better educated...

(WAG. don't see the numbers)
  #44  
Old 12-10-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Melbourne View Post
But the Presbyterians are better educated...

(WAG. don't see the numbers)
For the southern US, by denomination or group, the percent that are college grads, according to the Pew study:

- Mainline Protestants: 36%
--- Presbyterians: 56%
--- Methodists: 39%
--- Lutherans: 39%
--- Episcopalians aren't broken out (sample size is too small)

- Evangelical Protestants: 21%
--- Baptists: 19%

So, good guess on your part.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 12-10-2019 at 04:30 PM.
  #45  
Old 12-11-2019, 12:22 PM
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Flannery O'Connor...


"They're sixteen and they got a car. Somebody said they were both going to be Church of God preachers because you don't have to know nothing to be one."

'A Temple of the Holy Ghost'
  #46  
Old 12-11-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
For the southern US, by denomination or group, the percent that are college grads, according to the Pew study:

- Mainline Protestants: 36%
--- Presbyterians: 56%
--- Methodists: 39%
--- Lutherans: 39%
--- Episcopalians aren't broken out (sample size is too small)

- Evangelical Protestants: 21%
--- Baptists: 19%

So, good guess on your part.
You can click through and it has the info, in order of 1) <= high school, 2) some college 3) college, 4) post graduate:
Episcopalians 16/29/31/25%
(Mainline) Presbyterians 27/27/25/21%

Or for graduating college, 56% vs. 46%. So Episcopalians have more education, but that doesn't mean that Presbyterians are slouches.
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