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Old 05-22-2019, 03:09 AM
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Republicans are basically Nazis, exhibit 14H


Hey, remember those concentration camps at the border to deal with immigrants? Well, turns out you'd better not be gay or disabled, because if you are, they're going to torture you!


https://theintercept.com/2019/05/21/...ion-detention/

Quote:
The Intercept’s and ICIJ’s reporting, which included a groundbreaking review of more than 8,400 reports describing placements of ICE detainees in solitary confinement, found that the immigration agency has used isolation cells to punish immigrants for offenses as minor as consensual kissing, and to segregate hunger strikers, LGBTQ detainees, and people with disabilities.

[...]

The records show dozens of cases of detainees placed in solitary confinement solely due to a disability, many simply because they needed a wheelchair, cane, crutches, or some other aid. One detainee from Guatemala was put in isolation for more than two months only because he had a prosthetic leg. A Nicaraguan man was put in solitary for almost two months — the only listed reason: “Detainee utilizes crutches — deformed leg.”
(And yes, solitary confinement is torture.)

So we're locking a bunch of immigrants up in concentration camps and torturing them - often torturing them explicitly because they're disabled. Now, I'm not going to say that this makes ICE and the repiblicans supporting these policies exactly like nazis, but I will say that if someone wrote a story with this plot element, most would consider it a bit on the nose, and the editor would probably say something like, "look, if you want your villains to sound like Nazis, couldn't you be just a bit more subtle about it?"

What's happening on our southern border is a goddamn moral atrocity, and anyone supporting it deserves to stand responsible for it.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:35 AM
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Yes we all read in history class how, once the Holocaust got started, the Jews were simply flooding into Nazi territory.
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:52 AM
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Hi there, person defending American concentration camps torturing LGBT and disabled people. How are you doing today? Good? Good. Enjoying sticking up for American concentration camps torturing LGBT and disabled people? Well, as long as you think it makes the world a better place.

(That's literally the only valuable piece of information in the above post. He's defending concentration camps that are torturing LGBT and disabled people. Everything else is just that much fluff in the wind.)
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:19 AM
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Hi there, person defending American concentration camps torturing LGBT and disabled people. How are you doing today? Good? Good. Enjoying sticking up for American concentration camps torturing LGBT and disabled people? Well, as long as you think it makes the world a better place.
He's not defending them. He's just ignoring them and posting an irrelevant and historically-dubious distraction.

I mean, a reasonable person might ask how bad conditions must be in the places these people are fleeing in order for them to be willing to not only walk for, in some cases, over a thousand miles with their whole family and whatever possessions they can carry through dangerous territory but also to risk, upon arrival at their destination, horrific, inhumane and possibly illegal treatment. A reasonable person might ask what justification the US government and its sub-contractors have for engaging in these barbaric behaviors in the first place. A reasonable person might even endeavor to avoid responding with a rather gleeful tone in response to a discussion on the topic of gay and disabled people being tortured.

But that's just my opinion.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:34 AM
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*checks forum*
Damn! Ok, I'll try anyway. It takes a certain kind of, oh, special to disagree with this:

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...
What's happening on our southern border is a goddamn moral atrocity, and anyone supporting it deserves to stand responsible for it.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:53 AM
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*checks forum*
Damn! Ok, I'll try anyway. It takes a certain kind of, oh, special to disagree with this:
I mean, I'm trying for "elections", because it's an issue worth taking seriously on an electoral stage, but honestly? If you aren't mad as hell about the US running concentration camps where they will torture you for being disabled or LGBT... I'm at a loss, I really am. This is monstrous.
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:18 AM
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Moderating


Moving rant from Elections to the Pit.

[/moderating]
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:54 AM
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He's not defending them. He's just ignoring them and posting an irrelevant and historically-dubious distraction.
Let's not give him more credit than he deserves - this is how you defend the indefensible. Find a way to distract from the thing you know you can't defend and talk about some other irrelevant bullshit, in the hopes that the conversation shifts from "the thing I like but am unwilling to defend because it makes me look like a fucking monster" to "some other thing that merely makes me look like a partisan jerk". Related to The HurricaneDitka Show in this thread. I'd like to think we're collectively getting better at not falling for it, and I absolutely plan to call it out whenever I see it (as I did above). I encourage anyone else to do the same.

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Moving rant from Elections to the Pit.

[/moderating]
Oh. Well fuck that, then. Hey Farnaby, you fascist prick, your continued membership here is a cancer on the level of the discourse and you should take your fucking nazi apologia and fuck off, you colossal piece of shit.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:20 AM
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Well, I hate to point a finger, but the fact is that this nation was primarily founded by white Europeans, and white Europeans have shown throughout history that they severely lean towards imperialism.

It was primarily white Europeans who sailed all over the world, stuck their flags in the ground of whatever lands they found, and trumpeted, "Your land is now OUR land. Since you are inferior savages, we are justified in taking this land, dominating it, and doing whatever we want." If the indigenous people were lucky and weren't killed outright or enslaved, they became 2nd class citizens in their own land.

The Republican Right consists of people with this mentality. "Make America Great Again" is code for, "Let's go back to a time when white men ruled white women, and all other races stepped off the sidewalk and walked in the street in deference to their superiors."

The fact is that never ...... NEVER ....... would white children be treated the way those children are being treated. I think the death toll is up to five children who have died in those ratty cages. They're prison camps for children. Ain't we proud.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:28 AM
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Accusing ANYBODY of being "like Nazis" is a VERY serious charge and in my current state-of-mind I'm not willing to do that, even regarding the current Republican Party. But neither am I a fan of the Republican Party in its current state. Not in the least bit.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:29 AM
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Well, I hate to point a finger, but the fact is that this nation was primarily founded by white Europeans, and white Europeans have shown throughout history that they severely lean towards imperialism.

It was primarily white Europeans who sailed all over the world, stuck their flags in the ground of whatever lands they found, and trumpeted, "Your land is now OUR land. Since you are inferior savages, we are justified in taking this land, dominating it, and doing whatever we want." If the indigenous people were lucky and weren't killed outright or enslaved, they became 2nd class citizens in their own land.
Dammit, now I'm hearing Eddie Izzard in my head. "Do you have a flag?"

Of course you don't have to go back to colonial times for this sort of behavior, even in America: Japanese-American internment camps existed in living memory (and Guantanamo in very recent memory).

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The Republican Right consists of people with this mentality. "Make America Great Again" is code for, "Let's go back to a time when white men ruled white women, and all other races stepped off the sidewalk and walked in the street in deference to their superiors."

The fact is that never ...... NEVER ....... would white children be treated the way those children are being treated. I think the death toll is up to five children who have died in those ratty cages. They're prison camps for children. Ain't we proud.
I genuinely struggle to understand the sheer lack of empathy involved in accepting these practices, but then there are massive propaganda machines dedicated to churning out FUD and hatred which enable the dehumanization of entire populations.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:45 AM
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...The fact is that never ...... NEVER ....... would white children be treated the way those children are being treated. I think the death toll is up to five children who have died in those ratty cages. They're prison camps for children. Ain't we proud.
And in the 10 previous years, exactly zero immigrant children have died in US custody. MAGA, indeed.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:49 AM
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Yes we all read in history class how, once the Holocaust got started, the Jews were simply flooding into Nazi territory.
I'm inferring from this that you believe that it's okay to dehumanize and torture these people simply because they are immigrants. What's really sad is that it doesn't surprise me in the least that there are a lot of people in this country that are just as bigoted and hateful as you are. What a pathetic creature.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:59 AM
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Accusing ANYBODY of being "like Nazis" is a VERY serious charge and in my current state-of-mind I'm not willing to do that, even regarding the current Republican Party. But neither am I a fan of the Republican Party in its current state. Not in the least bit.
To quote from the thread I started on this in Elections:
This is happening under an administration whose president seems to believe we should be shooting immigrants and is pardoning war criminals who are being court-martialed for murdering civilians in Iraq, and where the head of the DHS was fired for being unwilling to break the law on the president's behalf. What's going on now is a moral atrocity the likes of which the US hasn't seen on US soil since at least the Japanese internment camps of World War II, possibly longer. But more importantly, there's damn good reason to believe that it's going to get worse.
The republican party isn't the 1942 Nazis. But then, the 1933 Nazis weren't the 1942 Nazis. Dachau started as a small prison for political opposition - as the regime became more and more extreme, it grew.

What's already happening is shocking and disgusting. We should stop it before it gets worse.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:28 AM
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What's already happening is shocking and disgusting. We should stop it before it gets worse.
Good luck with that; we're all counting on you.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:29 AM
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Yes we all read in history class how, once the Holocaust got started, the Jews were simply flooding into Nazi territory.
Well, this is more like the Jews, realizing how bad things were getting in Nazi Germany, fled to France for safety, only to be put in cages and tortured by the French because... well, I'll be damned if I can say why.

In the OT, the bad guys sacrificed children to Mammon. Today, these children are sacrificed to _____. Damned if I know. And a majority of American bible-beaters are OK with it because ______.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:31 AM
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I'm inferring from this that you believe that it's okay to dehumanize and torture these people simply because they are immigrants. What's really sad is that it doesn't surprise me in the least that there are a lot of people in this country that are just as bigoted and hateful as you are. What a pathetic creature.
Unsurprisingly, the hysterics that are attracted to a thread title like this cannot read well.

Shouldn’t you all be out on a ledge somewhere?
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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Well, this is more like the Jews, realizing how bad things were getting in Nazi Germany, fled to France for safety, only to be put in cages and tortured by the French because... well, I'll be damned if I can say why.

In the OT, the bad guys sacrificed children to Mammon. Today, these children are sacrificed to _____. Damned if I know. And a majority of American bible-beaters are OK with it because ______.
Must everything be compared to a decades old morality play? History is still taught past 8th grade, correct? How about some more appropriate smear terms. Stop trying to shoehorn everything into your favorite comic book.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:35 AM
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Well, this is more like the Jews, realizing how bad things were getting in Nazi Germany, fled to France for safety, only to be put in cages and tortured by the French because... well, I'll be damned if I can say why
Are we France, Nazis, or Jews in this analogy?

Quote:
In the OT, the bad guys sacrificed children to Mammon. Today, these children are sacrificed to _____. Damned if I know. And a majority of American bible-beaters are OK with it because ______.
Oooh! I love Mad-libs.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:38 AM
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Well, as long as you think it makes the world a better place.
Is that what you’re doing?
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:49 AM
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So what do you think about the dead kids and the cages?
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:57 AM
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Are we France, Nazis, or Jews in this analogy?
France. Bad France. Hitler's in Guatemala.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:35 AM
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Stop trying to shoehorn everything into your favorite comic book.
Well that's the problem isn't it. I have a general rule of thumb when it comes to ethics. When what you are doing matches the sort of over the top villainy that comic book and action movie writers use to identify how evil their antagonist is, be it Ming the Merciless, the Red Skull, Ernst Blofeld, or Cersei Lannister. Then you are probably doing something wrong. More and more our country seems to resemble the evil empire that the plucky heroes manage to overcome, rather than the beacon of truth and justice.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:11 AM
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The republican party isn't the 1942 Nazis. But then, the 1933 Nazis weren't the 1942 Nazis. Dachau started as a small prison for political opposition - as the regime became more and more extreme, it grew.

What's already happening is shocking and disgusting. We should stop it before it gets worse.
I couldn't agree with you more. If it were up to me Trump and EVERYbody associated with him, related to him, or who voted for him would be sent on a one-way trip to the Sun. Unfortunately, that's not how things work.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:47 AM
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I couldn't agree with you more. If it were up to me Trump and EVERYbody associated with him, related to him, or who voted for him would be sent on a one-way trip to the Sun. Unfortunately, that's not how things work.
Seems strange that in a thread complaining about inhumane conditions, you openly advocate for the immediate death of over 60 million people.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:50 AM
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One is real, the other isn't.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:00 PM
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One is real, the other isn't.
I see. So he's just joking about killing 60 million people? That's okay then.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:22 PM
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So what do you think about the dead kids and the cages?
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:31 PM
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So what do you think about the dead kids and the cages?
I'm against it.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:37 PM
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That's cool, we're on the same page there. But it's not funny, like sending 60 million people into the sun. I mean, can you imagine how big the ship would have to be, or how finely diced the people would have to be?
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:49 PM
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That's cool, we're on the same page there. But it's not funny, like sending 60 million people into the sun. I mean, can you imagine how big the ship would have to be, or how finely diced the people would have to be?
I'm sure the ship would need to be YUGE!
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:17 PM
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Nazis had better uniforms.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:33 PM
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I think it's important in the public discourse (which includes discussion of politics on forums) to get away from always invoking the Nazis. Evil things should be condemned because they're evil. Always introducing Nazis into the discussion only sets the stage for more equivocation, comparisons, analogies, metaphors, and generally turning everything into a mess.

It's just asking for people to say "well it may be bad but it's not NAZI level bad" and then it just degenerates into arguing over semantics. Condemn immoral policies because they're immoral.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:43 PM
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Now, I'm not going to say that this makes ICE and the repiblicans supporting these policies.
I don't believe that Republicans are torturing folks, I believe that "mean people" who would otherwise have job bullying someone else somewhere are doing this. If a were wealthy, I would probably vote Republican to keep more of my money, although I don't see how anyone could vote for Trump again, save for the above mentioned mean people.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:04 PM
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I see. So he's just joking about killing 60 million people? That's okay then.
Who said I was joking? If I had the power, that's what I would do. And I wouldn't regret it for even one millisecond. Why not? Because those lizard brains are making everything worse for each and every one of us (even if THEY don't understand that in the least). It's called "addition by subtraction," see?

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Old 05-22-2019, 05:55 PM
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:23 PM
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I think it's important in the public discourse (which includes discussion of politics on forums) to get away from always invoking the Nazis. Evil things should be condemned because they're evil. Always introducing Nazis into the discussion only sets the stage for more equivocation, comparisons, analogies, metaphors, and generally turning everything into a mess.

It's just asking for people to say "well it may be bad but it's not NAZI level bad" and then it just degenerates into arguing over semantics. Condemn immoral policies because they're immoral.
But it really is NAZI level bad. White supremacists have the government's blessing, they're separating families and sequestering those they separate in camps, the head of the government is blaming his base's woes on The Other and promising to take care of that Other because only he can, he's threatening to incarcerate his political opponents, he sneers at the law and views the levers of power as his to do with as he will. The parallels between pre-war Germany and the United States today are chilling.

I don't understand why people don't see that. Maybe it's easier to recognize the shape of the fireball from the outside.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:04 PM
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<lights up a cigar>

Puts on sunglasses

Because this thread sure has aged well.

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...blican+animals

I mean a lot of yous are a LOT angrier at Republitards than I am, and I'm still pretty damned angry. But some of you all who were telling me to chill have lost your fucking shit, screaming for impeachment.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:14 PM
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But it really is NAZI level bad. White supremacists have the government's blessing, they're separating families and sequestering those they separate in camps, the head of the government is blaming his base's woes on The Other and promising to take care of that Other because only he can, he's threatening to incarcerate his political opponents, he sneers at the law and views the levers of power as his to do with as he will. The parallels between pre-war Germany and the United States today are chilling.

I don't understand why people don't see that. Maybe it's easier to recognize the shape of the fireball from the outside.
If people really believed that, more of them would be fleeing the country. I just don't think it's an accurate comparison, and I absolutely think it's something that's pervaded everyone's headspace and poisoned debates and further increased the relentless polarization in this country.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:16 PM
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I mean a lot of yous are a LOT angrier at Republitards than I am, and I'm still pretty damned angry. But some of you all who were telling me to chill have lost your fucking shit, screaming for impeachment.
At least they've been screaming for *legal*, non-insane solutions. Unlike certain posters here.

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Old 05-22-2019, 08:21 PM
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At least they've been screaming for *legal*, non-insane solutions. Unlike certain posters here.
But god dammit it felt great! Until the next morning.
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Old 05-22-2019, 08:58 PM
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I think Big Brother is a better analogy to today's GOP than the Nazis. There is plenty of overlap of course, but check out this prescient bit of lit from "1984":
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April 4th, 1984. Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean. Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away with a helicopter after him. first you saw him wallowing along in the water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights, then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as suddenly as though the holes had let in the water. audience shouting with laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a helicopter hovering over it. there was a middleaged woman might have been a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting her arms around him and comforting him although she was blue with fright herself. all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20 kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood. then there was a wonderful shot of a childs arm going up up up right up into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats but a woman down in the prole part of the house suddenly started kicking up a fuss and shouting they didnt oughter of showed it not in front of kids it aint until the police turned her turned her out i dont suppose anything happened to her nobody cares what the proles say typical prole reaction they never-
Sure, that's farther than they have gone thus far, but it was only the other day Trump and his audience were joking around about gunning down migrants at the border. There's the same cruel enjoyment in dehumanizing and hurting others, the same glee at the thought of killing the 'other'.

It isn't Nazism, it is authoritarianism. There is a lot more creepy prescience to be found in 1984. It obviously isn't a perfect match, but I recommend everyone drop what they're doing and read 1984 right away. Obviously if you're an airplane pilot or surgeon or something, finish what you're doing first.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:02 PM
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He's not defending them. He's just ignoring them and posting an irrelevant and historically-dubious distraction.
Which is a tactic to defend something. It's called "whataboutism."
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:04 PM
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<lights up a cigar>

Puts on sunglasses

Because this thread sure has aged well.

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...blican+animals

I mean a lot of yous are a LOT angrier at Republitards than I am, and I'm still pretty damned angry. But some of you all who were telling me to chill have lost your fucking shit, screaming for impeachment.
Fuck off. You were advocating for killing people, so advocating for impeachment is not worse.

If you would just with the lying to defend yourself, it would be nice.
  #45  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Good luck with that; we're all counting on you.
Seems you forgot to include the "Regards" at the end.

I mean, you are parodying Shodan, right? You're attacking the liberal position with nothing but pointless snark. You pretend to be anti-Trump, but you've just attacked someone for taking an anti-Trump position.

You're trying to be Shodan. Because the liberal Snowboarder Bo wouldn't pull this shit. Right?

And, no, telling me to "Shut up" is not some amazing rejoinder. It tells me I hit a nerve.

You want to act like a right wing asshole, then I'm going to treat you like one. Sorry.

Last edited by BigT; 05-22-2019 at 09:12 PM.
  #46  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:16 PM
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Fuck off. You were advocating for killing people, so advocating for impeachment is not worse.

If you would just with the lying to defend yourself, it would be nice.
Where did I advocate "killing" people?
  #47  
Old 05-23-2019, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
I think Big Brother is a better analogy to today's GOP than the Nazis. There is plenty of overlap of course, but check out this prescient bit of lit from "1984":

Sure, that's farther than they have gone thus far,
Yes, that's a lot, lot farther. Like it has pretty much nothing to do with it. Call back when they'll show the execution of immigrants on live TV for the enjoyment of the Republican masses.
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Last edited by clairobscur; 05-23-2019 at 03:47 AM.
  #48  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:13 AM
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If people really believed that, more of them would be fleeing the country.
Why not judge Republican swine by their actions rather than how people react to their actions?

Quote:
I just don't think it's an accurate comparison
You're wrong.
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  #49  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:34 AM
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I would like to go on the record as opposing firing anyone into the sun, let alone 60 million people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Which is a tactic to defend something. It's called "whataboutism."
I am aware. There was a certain tongue-in-cheek element intended in my post.

I am also aware that comparisons to the Nazis have traditionally been purely hyperbolic. However, there are enough actual parallels between the early Nazi practices and what is currently going on in America that to avoid at least considering them would be to ignore the lessons of history. Which would be bad.
  #50  
Old 05-23-2019, 06:55 AM
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How many did you have last night, BigT? How's ya head this morning?
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