Obama Ad: Meet the 47%

[Euphonious Polemic]

No, this is not a real advertisement.

But what do you think about the following:


<voiceover>
Recently, Governor Romney said the following at a $5,000 a plate fundraiser:

""There are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47% who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it...These are people who pay no income tax, 47% of Americans pay no income tax."

We'd like you to meet some of these people in the 47%

<"man/woman on the street (or home) interviews>

"Hi, I'm Gloria. I'm a student, going to university studying engineering. I don't pay Federal Income Tax. I work to put myself though college, and I'm also getting a Pell Grant, so I'm very grateful that it's helping me get an education. I hope to get a great job when I graduate and start paying taxes, thanks to the breaks I'm getting now. I'm Gloria and I'm part of the 47%"

"Hello, I'm Janice. My husband John passed away three years ago, because we could not get medical coverage due to his pre-existing conditions. I'm living on Social Security now, and I'm also very glad to be on Medicare. John worked very hard his whole life, and I'm proud to have raised three great kids. I'm Janice and I'm part of the 47%."

"Hi there, I'm Frank. A few years ago, I lost my job when the company was bought out. I spent several months on unemployment until I got back on my feet again. I really appreciated the hand up, and it helped me to be where I am today - employed and paying taxes. I'm Frank and like many other folks, I was part of the 47% and it helped me."

Hello, I'm Nolan. I proudly served my country in Iraq, and paid the price of losing both legs. I'm doing more physiotherapy now, and planning to do retraining to learn a new job. I don't pay Federal Income Tax, but Mr. Romney, I'm not a victim. I'd like you to come here and say that to my face. I'm Nolan and I'm part of the 47%.

"Hi folks, I'm Grant. I worked for a company my whole life and was looking forward to retirement. Then Romney's Bain Capital bought my company and shut it down. I lost my pension, so now I rely entirely on social security. I'm Grant and I'm part of the 47%

"Hello, I'm Travis. I work hard for a living, and I pay my bills and my mortgage on time. My wife Jeannie looks after our 3 kids at home. I have enough deductions so that I don't pay Federal Income Tax. I do pay Federal Payroll taxes though. I don't rely on the government. I'm not a victim. Actually, I'm a Republican. Mr. Romney, I'm a Republican that you just insulted, and I'm part of the 47%."

<Voiceover>

The 47%. They are your sons, your daughters, your neighbors, your co-workers, your mothers and your fathers. They are in this group at the beginning of their careers, or the end or perhaps for only a few months in the middle. They are Americans. And they are worthy of the attention of the President.

[campp]

Nitpick: $50,000 per plate dinner.

[Enkel]

They need
- an active duty military in the war zone
- someone like my neighbor who grossed over $300k last year, but paid no taxes because he works the system
- An MBA w/six figure income who pays taxes and is voting for Obama

[BigAppleBucky]

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

<voiceover>
Recently, Governor Romney said the following at a $5,000 a plate fundraiser

Quibble - it was $50,000.00.

[Bpelta]

It would burn. The Obama campaign really ought to capitalize on this ASAP.

[howye]

I like this one: Romney's Responsibility Map

[OldGuy]

Couple of questions.

Wasn't the quote that 47% pay no taxes not no income taxes?

But assuming Romney meant (or said) income taxes, can't you only get to 47% by counting everyone -- including 5 year old children? Wouldn't having a small child saying "Hey his 47% includes me and I'll be paying taxes when I grow up as long as I can finish going to school" also be quite effective?

[Euphonious Polemic]

[quote=OldGuy;15506841]
Couple of questions.

Wasn't the quote that 47% pay no taxes not no income taxes?

This is the direct quote from Romney: (bolding mine)

All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean, the president starts off with 48, 49, 48—he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax.

Full transcript here:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...y-secret-video

Originally Posted by OldGuy

But assuming Romney meant (or said) income taxes, can't you only get to 47% by counting everyone -- including 5 year old children? Wouldn't having a small child saying "Hey his 47% includes me and I'll be paying taxes when I grow up as long as I can finish going to school" also be quite effective?

No. The 47% does not count children. From what I"ve read, the stats are that 47% of those 18 years of age and older do not pay Federal Income Tax. Of course, that does not mean that many of them do not pay other taxes, such as payroll tax, sales tax, Alcohol and tobacco tax, property tax etc.

[Jophiel]

The problem with saying you're the "47%" is that it puts you in the minority. Something like "the 99%" implies that you have the power to change things. Something like "1%" implies something being elite or detached. 47% just sounds like the wrong side of average.

I'd go with people who make under the line for paying federal income taxes -- your single mother, your father working to support his kids, your elderly, your soldier and introduce these people with Romney saying how he can't convince these people to show personal responsibility and how they're not his problem. Leave the 47% number out of it -- it's a misleading figure designed to promote the Right anyway. Just human stories of hard work and struggle and trying for a better future and Romney shitting all over them.

[Chefguy]

As I mentioned in another thread, the statement that 47% pay no income tax is correct. However (according to last night's newscast), 40% of that number are retired senior citizens (who mostly vote Republican), 30% of the number are working poor who don't meet the tax threshold, and 3% of the number are the wealthy who are able to hide their assets (and who also mostly vote Republican). That all comes up to about 35% of the total number of people in the 47% of Americans who are legally not obliged (yet) to pay income tax, leaving 12% that are perhaps collecting some sort of assistance as sole income. They're not slackers or professional victims or addicted to welfare. Romney is a sleazoid of the first order.

[Jophiel]

That's why I'd leave the 47% thing out of there. Defending the number just gives it false validity. Better to focus on Romney's contempt for half of the nation than the statistics themselves.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by Jophiel

That's why I'd leave the 47% thing out of there. Defending the number just gives it false validity. Better to focus on Romney's contempt for half of the nation than the statistics themselves.

Probably a good idea. Too many folks seem to latch onto the 47% and misinterpret it as "47% stealing money from good hard working people'

[Sage Rat]

The commercial would do better by including percentiles. Rather than saying, "I am part of the 47%", they would say, "I am 15% of the population." Of course, that wouldn't work if all of these groups, added together, didn't come to approximately 47% (or more). If they added up to 2%, it's not such a great ad.

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

Probably a good idea. Too many folks seem to latch onto the 47% and misinterpret it as "47% stealing money from good hard working people'

My niece's husband for one. I never heard someone bitch so loudly for no good reason.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

The commercial would do better by including percentiles. Rather than saying, "I am part of the 47%", they would say, "I am 15% of the population." Of course, that wouldn't work if all of these groups, added together, didn't come to approximately 47% (or more). If they added up to 2%, it's not such a great ad.

Well, of this group, most paid payroll taxes, so they were the working folks mentioned who take advantage of deductions for children, mortgage or education credits. From here

some of those people who did not pay income tax still paid payroll taxes, for social security and Medicare, so that it was only 18.1% of households that did not pay any income or payroll taxes.

And a large group of the remainder were elderly, as mentioned in the "ad":

Of the 18.1% paying no income or payroll taxes, more than half (10.3% of all households) were elderly, so retired people who may well have paid income and payroll taxes, as well as others, during their working lives.

Of the remainder, 6.9% of all households did not pay income or payroll taxes, essentially because they were poor, leaving 1% of "others" who did not pay either of these two types of taxes

So, if you had a group of 100 people representing the "47%" that Romney said "I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.", they would break down as follows

61 would be working and paying payroll taxes. They would not be making enough money though, or would have enough deductions so that they would not owe federal tax. I guess they don t' take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

22 people would be elderly, and most would have paid taxes throughout their lives. I guess Romney thinks that they need to take a bit more responsibility.

15 people would be poor, disabled or students with no income.

2 people would not pay either income tax or payroll taxes - 1 of these would be from a household with an annual income above $200,000 who did not pay any taxes whatsoever.

[Andiethewestie]

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

Well, of this group, most paid payroll taxes, so they were the working folks mentioned who take advantage of deductions for children, mortgage or education credits. From here


And a large group of the remainder were elderly, as mentioned in the "ad":






So, if you had a group of 100 people representing the "47%" that Romney said "I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.", they would break down as follows

61 would be working and paying payroll taxes. They would not be making enough money though, or would have enough deductions so that they would not owe federal tax. I guess they don t' take personal responsibility and care for their lives.

22 people would be elderly, and most would have paid taxes throughout their lives. I guess Romney thinks that they need to take a bit more responsibility.

15 people would be poor, disabled or students with no income.

2 people would not pay either income tax or payroll taxes - 1 of these would be from a household with an annual income above $200,000 who did not pay any taxes whatsoever.

Let's get that ONE !! LOL

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by Andiethewestie

Let's get that ONE !! LOL

I wonder if that "one" would be Mitt Romney at some point in the past, and that's why we're not seeing his old tax returns.

[Drain Bead]

I actually know a couple named Travis and Jeannie, so that kinda creeped me out.

[Damuri Ajashi]

Quote:
All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean, the president starts off with 48, 49, 48—he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax.

I heard the audio and I swear I thought he as going to keep going past 50% and then say voter suppression was the only way they were going to win. And THAT'S why he needs your money so that he can fund an all day rap concert in Cincinnati.

[moonshot925]

There is a reason why 46-47% of tax units pay no federal income tax.

Many are covered under tax benefits for the elderly. That would include the extra standard deduction for senior citizens and the exclusion of some social security benefits from taxation.

Benefits for the working poor and children (The Child Tax Credit, Earned Income Credit and Child and Dependent Care Credit).

Then there are itemized deductions, education credits and tax exempt interest.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Originally Posted by moonshot925

There is a reason why 46-47% of tax units pay no federal income tax.

Many are covered under tax benefits for the elderly. That would include the extra standard deduction for senior citizens and the exclusion of some social security benefits from taxation.

Benefits for the working poor and children (The Child Tax Credit, Earned Income Credit and Child and Dependent Care Credit).

Then there are itemized deductions, education credits and tax exempt interest.

You know, I think we all understand that. That's rather the point of this thread.

So do you think that for ALL these people, almost half the nation, the elected president should (in Romney's own words) "not worry about those people"?

What do you think of Romney's words?

Do you think that for ALL of the people you mentioned, (the elderly, the working poor, those who work with enough exemptions to not pay federal income tax) - do you think that they are ALL (in Romney's own words) "dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them"?

[-getitrite]

The truth that Romney has already made clear, was the poor have a safety net and dont need to be worried about, he is now making the statement that there are 47% that he will not have to work for, So if this keeps up then the only person Romney will be working for is by my understanding himself. This is a worry for me, a psycopath in office. Not just someone frome the tea party but a real psycopath.

[jshore]

Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic

Do you think that for ALL of the people you mentioned, (the elderly, the working poor, those who work with enough exemptions to not pay federal income tax) - do you think that they are ALL (in Romney's own words) "dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them"?

...And that Romney can "never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

(That's the great thing about the Romney quote: Some quotes, like the Obama quote about clinging to guns and religion or the redistribution quote lose much of their punch once you quote enough to get the context. But, the Romney quote just keeps on giving...The more you quote, the better it gets! )

[septimus]

Since the theme is Americans who pay little taxes, perhaps you can squeeze in room for

"Hello, I'm Milton Ramnee. I make oodles of megabucks taking over companies and stripping them down. Because of loopholes I pay almost no income taxes. That makes me part of the 47% too but I hate the other 46% and I'm proud of it."

[Jophiel]

With Romney's push for "I'm for the 100%", the ads write themselves...

Here's Mitt Romney talking for the cameras about the poor and middle class...
"I'm for the 100%"

And here he is when talking to his friends in private...
"...they feel they're entitled to food, housing, healthcare... ...I'll never convince them to take personal responsibility... ...my job is not to worry about those people..."

Shouldn't we have a president who cares about ALL of America?


Alternately...
"I'm for the 100%..."

Really? Remember when you said...
"I’m not concerned about the very poor."

And told your friends in private that...
"...they feel they're entitled to food, housing, healthcare... ...I'll never convince them to take personal responsibility... ...my job is not to worry about those people..."

Shouldn't we have a president who cares about ALL of America?