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Old 07-10-2017, 11:36 AM
Nars Glinley Nars Glinley is offline
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Referring to the President by number (45). Is this a new thing?

I don't remember it for past administrations and certainly not to the degree that it is being used now. ISTM that it was used somewhat to distinguish the Presidents Bush but that at least made sense.

Is it supposed to be an insult?
  #2  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:44 AM
skdo23 skdo23 is offline
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I remember Reagan being referred to as the 40th President more often than his successors were referred to by their numbers. My WAG is that it is similar to birthdays where people tend to consider ones that are multiples of 5 as "milestones" and make a bigger deal out of them.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:47 AM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nars Glinley View Post
I don't remember it for past administrations and certainly not to the degree that it is being used now. ISTM that it was used somewhat to distinguish the Presidents Bush but that at least made sense.

Is it supposed to be an insult?
I used to say "Papa Bush" and "Baby Bush" to distinguish between them.

Yes, it is supposed to be an insult Or maybe people are afraid that, like Voldemort, if you say "Trump" he will hear it and get into your head. Or something.

It's silliness - part of Trump Derangement Syndrome. I don't remember people refusing to say "Obama".

Last edited by Okrahoma; 07-10-2017 at 11:47 AM.
  #4  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:55 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
.

It's silliness - part of Trump Derangement Syndrome. I don't remember people refusing to say "Obama".
Obama was an intelligent and honorable man. Why would people refuse to say "Obama?"

Surely you don't believe Trump is simply the flip side of a moderate Democrat?

Perhaps you've missed the past 20 years or so, (or six months) of news about Trump. He's grossly unfit in every possible way to serve as President of the United States.
  #5  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:08 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
I don't remember people refusing to say "Obama".
True. No one on the Right ever failed to address the former president by his name, Barack HUSSEIN Obama, or one of its many variants, e.g. "Obozo," "Obummer," "Obambi," "Barry Soetoro," et cetera. We should all aspire to such gentility.
  #6  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:12 PM
bobot bobot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nars Glinley View Post
...

Is it supposed to be an insult?
Yeah, in a way. It's a way to refer to Trump without saying his name. As Vinyl Turnip points out, it's only insulting a little bit compared to the way other presidents were referred to.
  #7  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:34 PM
Happy Lendervedder Happy Lendervedder is offline
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I first noticed it on Politico. Their section on the Obama administration was "44."

I reckon it started as an inside-the-beltway thing, and has now hit the mainstream.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 07-10-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:47 PM
YamatoTwinkie YamatoTwinkie is offline
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I think it was primarily used to distinguish between the two Bush Presidencies, but it continued as a political-nerd shorthand. I've never seen it used with malice. If anything, I would have thought that it'd be an honor to be on the same list as "1" "3" "16", "26" and "32".
  #9  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:30 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name.

I wasn't around back in the 1820's so I don't know if people were talking about what 6 was doing.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:31 PM
naita naita is offline
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Originally Posted by Happy Lendervedder View Post
I first noticed it on Politico. Their section on the Obama administration was "44."

I reckon it started as an inside-the-beltway thing, and has now hit the mainstream.
Here's an example: 44 to reverse 43s executive orders.
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:35 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is online now
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name.

I wasn't around back in the 1820's so I don't know if people were talking about what 6 was doing.
Oh, it's a thing alright.


Quote:
"The Van Buren Boys" is the 148th episode of the sitcom Seinfeld, and name of a fictional New York street gang. Their sign is one hand with all the fingers and thumb 'up' and spread out. The other hand has all but the thumb and pointer finger up, for a total of eight (8). The gang is named for the 8th President of the United States, Martin Van Buren (who was the first president from New York).
  #12  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:51 PM
John Mace John Mace is online now
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name.

I wasn't around back in the 1820's so I don't know if people were talking about what 6 was doing.
His father said: I am number 2. To which the son replied: Who is number 1? And the father responded: You are number 6.

That's how it all started.
  #13  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:20 PM
Lance Turbo Lance Turbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name.

I wasn't around back in the 1820's so I don't know if people were talking about what 6 was doing.
It may be subtle in some cases but it is pretty wide spread.

CNN Politics

The menu across the top of the page reads, "45, CONGRESS, SECURITY, THE NINE, TRUMPMERICA, STATE."
  #14  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:29 PM
hajario hajario is online now
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I think it started becoming widespread to distinguish the Bushes. 41 and 43.
  #15  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:35 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Originally Posted by hajario View Post
I think it started becoming widespread to distinguish the Bushes. 41 and 43.
Yes. But it was still used occasionally as far back as I recall, which is basically Kennedy. It was mostly used in the news for elections, inaugurations, or deaths that I recall. I doubt anyone but the Bushes were known by their numbers, except George as the first. I assume still kids all get some intro to them by number in history classes also, so I remember the first few, and that Lincoln was the 16th.
  #16  
Old 07-10-2017, 03:57 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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It has been an inside the Beltway thing for as long as I've followed politics. It's probably similar to how some athletes are sometimes referred to by their uniform number. It started coming into more popular use around the time of George W Bush, which also saw the rise of a lot of political blogs aimed at more wonky readership. I'd say it is similar to the use of POTUS and SCOTUS.
  #17  
Old 07-10-2017, 04:18 PM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
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It was a thing back in the late 19th century to distinguish between Grover Cleveland's non-consecutive terms.
"When was Augustus Garland the Attorney General?"
"GC-22."
By the way, the symmetry of having an AG whose initials are A.G. is the kind of thing more presidents should strive for.

Last edited by Tom Tildrum; 07-10-2017 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Cleveland rocks!
  #18  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:54 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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It started as a means of separating the Bushes. It was short and catchy. It works well in headlines. People started using for Obama. People continue using it for Trump. People will continue using it for the next President.

I'm sure it can be used as an insult. Anything can be used as an insult. Does the OP have any examples at all of its being used as an insult? One. How about one, to start. Then we can see whether this is a thing. Until it's a thing it isn't a thing.
  #19  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:59 PM
E-DUB E-DUB is offline
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I don't use the number to diminish the current occupant of the White House. I diminish him by not capitalizing his last name. My feeling is that most of the time we've seen it over the many years that he's been a public eyesore the ENTIRE name was capitalized. I'm just trying to restore a little balance to the universe.
  #20  
Old 07-11-2017, 12:09 AM
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
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I first began to see it used, on other forums, as a way to avoid rewarding a narcissist. Sort of the modern version of referring to FDR only as "that man in the White House."
  #21  
Old 07-11-2017, 12:16 AM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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I thought it was 45*
  #22  
Old 07-11-2017, 12:27 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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No, that's the complex conjugate of Donald Trump.
  #23  
Old 07-11-2017, 12:40 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
His father said: I am number 2. To which the son replied: Who is number 1? And the father responded: You are number 6.

That's how it all started.
"I don't know, Dad. Senator Jackson has often referred to me as Number 2."
"He's not talking about the order of presidents, son."
  #24  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:14 AM
Edible Hat Edible Hat is offline
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Twitter. Twitter requires an economy of language and 45 is three letters shorter than Trump. Trump is the first president to start his first term with Twitter being a culturally dominant form of communication (and Trump himself is a Twitter personality, of course.) I wouldn't be surprised if this convention of Twitter has percolated outside into more staid discourses.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:14 PM
Alan Smithee Alan Smithee is offline
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My recollection is that it started during GWB's presidency within the Bush family as a jokingly way for them to refer to one another.
  #26  
Old 07-11-2017, 09:20 PM
SpoilerVirgin SpoilerVirgin is offline
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I saved a copy of the iconic Newsweek cover when Obama was elected in 2008.
  #27  
Old 07-11-2017, 09:34 PM
enipla enipla is offline
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My good friend and cousin, just refer to him as "it". 45 is way to dignified.
  #28  
Old 07-12-2017, 10:48 PM
Superdude Superdude is offline
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But they're missing out on calling him Dolt 45
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2017, 12:57 AM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
I first began to see it used, on other forums, as a way to avoid rewarding a narcissist. Sort of the modern version of referring to FDR only as "that man in the White House."
This is how I understand it. Using 45 keeps his name from trending as highly on Twitter, etc., as he might like so yeah, it is all about poking the narcissist with a stick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edible Hat View Post
Twitter. Twitter requires an economy of language and 45 is three letters shorter than Trump. Trump is the first president to start his first term with Twitter being a culturally dominant form of communication (and Trump himself is a Twitter personality, of course.) I wouldn't be surprised if this convention of Twitter has percolated outside into more staid discourses.
Sounds like a reasonable explanation for why it has become so popular.
  #30  
Old 07-13-2017, 01:13 AM
dalej42 dalej42 is online now
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But they're missing out on calling him Dolt 45


I've seen an internet meme: Dolt 45, day drinking since January 20!
  #31  
Old 07-13-2017, 01:30 AM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is online now
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I would've been cool with comparing the Clinton42 and Clinton45 administrations.
  #32  
Old 07-13-2017, 02:55 PM
XT XT is offline
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
True. No one on the Right ever failed to address the former president by his name, Barack HUSSEIN Obama, or one of its many variants, e.g. "Obozo," "Obummer," "Obambi," "Barry Soetoro," et cetera. We should all aspire to such gentility.
Um...Barry Soetoro? First I've heard of that one. For that matter, I must have missed Obambi as well.
  #33  
Old 07-13-2017, 03:33 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Um...Barry Soetoro? First I've heard of that one. For that matter, I must have missed Obambi as well.
Barry Soetoro gives hits to 21 threads just here at the Dope and 377,000 on Google. For Obambi it's 7 and 151,000. That's some impressive missing.
  #34  
Old 07-13-2017, 05:27 PM
Emily Litella Emily Litella is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
His father said: I am number 2. To which the son replied: Who is number 1? And the father responded: You are number 6.

That's how it all started.
Damn, you're old. But then again, so am I.
  #35  
Old 07-15-2017, 03:16 PM
PapSett PapSett is offline
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I refer to him as 45 because I refuse to give him the respect of the title PRESIDENT. I'll call him Trump, Drumpf or 45. That's it.
  #36  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:14 PM
hajario hajario is online now
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I refer to him as 45 because I refuse to give him the respect of the title PRESIDENT. I'll call him Trump, Drumpf or 45. That's it.
Edgy
  #37  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:28 PM
BigT BigT is offline
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Edgy
Yes, having principles is like being an edgelord. You've totally figured it all out.
  #38  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:01 PM
hajario hajario is online now
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Yes, having principles is like being an edgelord. You've totally figured it all out.
I bet that seemed like quite the burn in your head before you typed it out.
  #39  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:11 PM
igor frankensteen igor frankensteen is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
His father said: I am number 2. To which the son replied: Who is number 1? And the father responded: You are number 6.

That's how it all started.

Wow. Not everyone makes an oblique cross reference back to a cult-followed, British, esoteric sequel television series from 1967.

As for the whole numbering the President thing, it does seem to be a relatively recent thing, NOT an insult at all, boosted more than anything else by the urge of commentators to look neato-keen, while referring to the two Bushes.

I'd suggest that the primary reason for it, IS the "I want to seem clever while I talk about the Presidents" thing. It's the main reasons for a LOT of popular slang, including the insult stuff.

People who say things like "Obozo" or "Shrub" and so on, never do it because they think that by insulting someone casually, that their opinions will be taken more seriously. They aren't THAT idiotic. They do it as a way to signal the other prejudiced people in the audience that they are also really cool guys.

Last edited by igor frankensteen; 07-16-2017 at 12:13 PM.
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