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Old 06-13-2017, 02:59 AM
Reddy Mercury Reddy Mercury is offline
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Would Joe Biden have won against Trump?

If he had run and been nominated, do you think former Vice President Joe Biden could have defeated Trump in last year's election? Why or why not?
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:08 AM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
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Hard to know. Hillary Clinton could have defeated Trump in last year's election. She just didn't. We still don't know why, not in the sense of a consensus existing. Many of us find it implausible that Trump could have defeated anyone under any imaginable circumstances. He did.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:00 AM
Qin Shi Huangdi Qin Shi Huangdi is offline
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Yes, because Biden is personally quite popular and wouldn't have collapsed quite as much among white working-class voters as Clinton did in key Rust Belt/Blue Wall states. I'm convinced nearly any Democrat besides Mrs. Clinton would have won in 2016 given how narrow the odds were.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:17 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Biden would have gotten quite a bit of the millenial "ironic" vote out of his bitching Trans Am, I'll tell you that much.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:37 AM
Johnny Ace Johnny Ace is offline
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At least he wouldn't have had the Comey thing happen, though the Russians would still have monkeyed with the election. Ultimately, I'm not certain how much Biden would have affected the 'change for change's sake' anti-establishment vote, though. We don't know how he and his advisors would run his campaign, either.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:44 AM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is online now
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Would that have been the first pitting of two 70-somethings in a Presidential (general) election?

Last edited by Ambivalid; 06-13-2017 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 06-13-2017, 06:35 AM
davida03801 davida03801 is offline
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Personally I doubt it. Like it or not Trump was the one that read the electorate right in the past cycle.
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:35 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Personally I doubt it. Like it or not Trump was the one that read the electorate right in the past cycle.
He didn't read shit. He ran as a publicity stunt, saying the most outrageous shit just to get time on the news. It was just by happy accident for him that so many white working class voters happily lapped up his verbal diarrhea and proclaimed it to be divine chocolate fudge ice cream.
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:46 AM
asahi asahi is online now
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If he had run and been nominated, do you think former Vice President Joe Biden could have defeated Trump in last year's election? Why or why not?
I would lean toward 'yes' but it wouldn't be a blowout victory, either. Many of those who voted against Hillary Clinton had already started turning against Barack Obama's Democratic party. I think Hillary Clinton's campaign and messaging woes amplified concerns that white working class defectors had.

What could have made the difference for Biden is that he is from coal and steel country. And he still very much identifies with working class people. He communicates in a way that seems much, much more authentic than Hillary Clinton, and I think that his record of being a mainstream moderate might have differentiated him from Obama at least a little bit.

Even so, the fact is that voters were in a mood for something different and there area lot of people who would have voted to shake things up with Trump no matter which Democrat was running against him.
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:51 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:57 AM
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I'm inclined to say no. Biden showed in 2008 that he wasn't a great campaigner and had a bad case of "foot in mouth" disease, and I doubt that had changed.

Don't get me wrong - Biden would likely have been a good president, but in order to be president you need to be able to campaign and it wasn't a strong point for him.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:03 AM
wolfman wolfman is online now
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He would have destroyed (by current relative standards)Trump. Normal people were desperately wanting any viable alternative to Trump, but there wasn't one.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:11 AM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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I think it's likely Biden would have gotten at least a fraction of a percent more in MI, WI, and especially PA, and thus I think it's likely he would have won. Not certain, of course.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:20 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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I doubt it. Hillary lost because blacks and other core Democratic constituencies didn't turn out to vote. Biden doesn't have any more charisma than she did. They wouldn't turn out for him either.

Plus "it's time we had a woman President" has at least slightly more appeal than "it's time we picked another old white guy".

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Old 06-13-2017, 08:23 AM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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I doubt it. Hillary lost because blacks and other core Democratic constituencies didn't turn out to vote. Biden doesn't have any more charisma than she did. They wouldn't turn out for him either.

Plus "it's time we had a woman President" has at least slightly more appeal than "it's time we picked another old white guy".

Regards,
Shodan
That's just one reason out of many -- if she had gotten just a very slightly larger fraction of white working class voters in MI, WI, and PA, she would have won the election. I think it's likely (but not certain) Biden would have done so.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:25 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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I doubt it. Hillary lost because blacks and other core Democratic constituencies didn't turn out to vote. Biden doesn't have any more charisma than she did. They wouldn't turn out for him either.

Plus "it's time we had a woman President" has at least slightly more appeal than "it's time we picked another old white guy".

Regards,
Shodan
They did pick another old white guy.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:26 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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The whole election cycle would have changed, Trump might not have been the GOP candidate as a result. Biden in the election would have taken away one of Trump's big advantages, that he wasn't Hillary. He still wouldn't be Hillary but it wouldn't have mattered. Biden would have been better prepared to handle attacks by Trump, he would do it like Kasich did, and Hillary wasn't smart enough to do. Biden probably would have held the Blue Wall.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:55 AM
asahi asahi is online now
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The whole election cycle would have changed, Trump might not have been the GOP candidate as a result. Biden in the election would have taken away one of Trump's big advantages, that he wasn't Hillary. He still wouldn't be Hillary but it wouldn't have mattered. Biden would have been better prepared to handle attacks by Trump, he would do it like Kasich did, and Hillary wasn't smart enough to do. Biden probably would have held the Blue Wall.
Trump was going to win that nomination no matter what. The GOP tried like hell to stop the Trump train precisely because they assumed, like most pundits, that he would lose to Hillary Clinton. They feared that his white nationalist campaign would forever brand the GOP as the part of racists -- and I still suspect that it could -- but they overestimated Hillary's strength just as the Democrats did. He was a phenomenon. I'm not sure it's a phenomenon that can be repeated but he wasn't going to lose the nomination no matter whom the Dems chose.

This does lead us back to the original question, which is how he would have fared against Joe Biden. That question leads me to consider another: how would Joe Biden have fared against Hillary Clinton and a strong Bernie Sanders insurgency. It's entirely possible that Hillary Clinton, who absolutely was going to run for the nomination no matter what, would have gotten into a political brawl with Biden over the heart and soul over the establishment. Meanwhile, there's this other guy over here to the left who somehow keeps building a cult following, only in this scenario, he quite likely wins some of the primaries he lost because two establishment candidates keep siphoning votes from each other. In this scenario, the same situation that bedeviled Republicans confronts Democrats: a guy who wasn't even supposed to be here is now in a tight 3-way race because there's no clear victor. Now maybe, just maybe, Biden consistently finishes a strong 2nd in races that he loses to Bernie and maybe Clinton consistently finishes in 3rd a la Jeb Bush. And then maybe as it was with Bush, the pressure builds for her to concede by late February. But does she? And meanwhile you've got the legion of Bernie Bros attacking the Democratic establishment, calling it a "rigged' system and that they're the party of Wall Street. Even if Biden finally gets Hillary off of his back, he's still got a much stronger Bernie Sanders contingent to deal with now. Maybe Biden comes away with a win before the convention but it's conceivable in this scenario that this thing goes to the convention without either side having the needed delegates. The convention turns into a brawl over super delegates. Suddenly, what was supposed to be a nightmare for Republicans becomes the nightmare for Democrats instead.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:58 AM
FlikTheBlue FlikTheBlue is offline
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My guess is also that Biden would have won. As mentioned by others, some voters went with Trump because they wanted an old white guy. Biden offered the same alternative.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:03 AM
asahi asahi is online now
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My guess is also that Biden would have won. As mentioned by others, some voters went with Trump because they wanted an old white guy. Biden offered the same alternative.
Trump had the advantage of being both a revolution and a counter-revolution. He was a revolution in the sense that voters thought they were getting a businessman and an ordinary guy who could just cut like a hot knife through butter and get things done. He was a counter-revolution in the sense that he was the polar opposite to Barack Obama, in every possible sense. And there were a lot of republicans he was not necessarily a revolution at all, and that he'd just continue the status quo of the GOP being a government of corporations, by corporations, for corporations. You look at someone like Trump and think 'How the hell could this guy win' but when you consider those three advantages more deeply, it makes sense even if it never, ever should have come to that.

Last edited by asahi; 06-13-2017 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:21 AM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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Biden doesn't have any more charisma than she did.
Are you kidding? Hillary has never said anything that approaches many of Biden's quips, like the Giuliani "noun verb 9-11" gem.

The knock against Biden is that he's been wrong on every foreign policy question, per Bob Gates. But seriously, you think last year's electorate would have cared?
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:27 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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Trump was going to win that nomination no matter what. The GOP tried like hell to stop the Trump train precisely because they assumed, like most pundits, that he would lose to Hillary Clinton. They feared that his white nationalist campaign would forever brand the GOP as the part of racists -- and I still suspect that it could -- but they overestimated Hillary's strength just as the Democrats did. He was a phenomenon. I'm not sure it's a phenomenon that can be repeated but he wasn't going to lose the nomination no matter whom the Dems chose.
Much of Trump's appeal was based on Hillary as the presumed opposition, which started early on. It could have changed. I won't argue that Trump would have likely succeeded in the same way whether it was Biden, Bernie, or anyone else other than Hillary, but it was not etched in stone, so don't take it for granite.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:33 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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This does lead us back to the original question, which is how he would have fared against Joe Biden. That question leads me to consider another: how would Joe Biden have fared against Hillary Clinton and a strong Bernie Sanders insurgency.
Bernie had the same advantage Trump did, he wasn't Hillary. With Biden and Hillary in the picture he would not have done so well. With Hillary in the picture they would have just split the opposition on the Democratic side making it easier for Hillary. If it was just Biden and Bernie in the primaries I think Biden would have the advantage and a Biden/Sanders or Biden/Hillary ticket would be likely. By that point it would have been an entirely different election.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:41 AM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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I'm inclined to say no. Biden showed in 2008 that he wasn't a great campaigner and had a bad case of "foot in mouth" disease, and I doubt that had changed.
I don't know. I can't recall any of his gaffs being particularly off-putting. And I think that actually might make him more genuine and relatable and less of the "slick, ambitious professional politician" Hillary was perceived to be.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:00 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Biden's gaffes are legendary, in the same sense that Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster are. Everyone talks about them, but when asked for specimens, they just produce really vague maybes.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:01 AM
E-DUB E-DUB is offline
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I don't know that he would have won, but he damn sure would have taken Pennsylvania.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:02 AM
TimeWinder TimeWinder is offline
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No, of course not. Nobody would have won against Trump. Half the voters in this country get their information from "news" sources that are at best described as "completely fictitious," and they'd have invented a Biden that ate babies and personally escorted Mexicans and Muslims to coal miners' homes to take their jobs at gunpoint while using up welfare dollars.

The candidate you choose to run against such a misinformation force is irrelevant.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:28 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Clinton got the votes. We just have a flawed election system that declared the guy who came in second place the winner.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:31 AM
Jophiel Jophiel is offline
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I think he very well may have. I think he has much more authenticity than Clinton (I'm not saying it's fair, just that it's true) and wouldn't have had the email/Clinton foundation/etc nonsense swirling around that dragged Clinton's credibility down further. Stronger connection to working class and still has some cachet with the younger voters.

Yes, the GOP would have invented some monstrous evil-Biden but it wouldn't have been on the foundation of decades of anti-Clinton hysteria.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:37 AM
shunpiker shunpiker is offline
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Yes. Why... because he wasn't HRC.

Okay, maybe I'm oversimplifying but my feeling is that Hillary was shown to be damaged goods back ~ 2008. The party breathed some fresh air into her before 2016, but she was always an easy target for the `Pubs talking points.

If nothing else, there's hadn't been the volume of data collected (good/bad/neutral) about JB as there was on HC.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:43 AM
asahi asahi is online now
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Trump had the advantage of being both a revolution and a counter-revolution. He was a revolution in the sense that voters thought they were getting a businessman and an ordinary guy who could just cut like a hot knife through butter and get things done. He was a counter-revolution in the sense that he was the polar opposite to Barack Obama, in every possible sense. And there were a lot of republicans he was not necessarily a revolution at all, and that he'd just continue the status quo of the GOP being a government of corporations, by corporations, for corporations. You look at someone like Trump and think 'How the hell could this guy win' but when you consider those three advantages more deeply, it makes sense even if it never, ever should have come to that.
If I may quote my own post to follow up on this thought and relate it to what's happening now, I think that what's happening now with Trump's support can also be broken down into three basic camps:

Trump is probably starting to see a lack of confidence among those who considered him to be a "revolution." Some are starting to doubt whether he has the character that this country wants and needs, and even if they can overlook character issues, they might doubt that he has the actual competence now. Of course, there's no way to know just how many doubters there are. There are surely those who believe that the Russia investigation is just a plot by the Establishment to stymie his agenda.

The status-quo Trumpists, the Wall Street Republicans who held their noses and voted for him because they thought he'd be good for business, are also probably beginning to have some serious doubts. I suspect that there are probably a lot of people in this category who are beginning to sour on the entire Republican party. Mind you, that doesn't mean they're Democrats at all -- they're just as skeptical of the left as they are Trump. But they're desperately searching for allies who want to preserve political stability that ensures global economic order. Steve Bannon is probably scaring the ever-living shit out of them at the moment. My guess is, these types will probably join the #neverTrump movement and sit out an election in 2020 if he somehow winds up running again. But they'd bolt right back to the party if Mike Pence becomes president in the interim.

That leaves us with those who saw Trump as the counter-revolution, the anti-Obama. My guess is, they've never been happier. They couldn't be more pleasantly surprised by what they're seeing. Some probably were skeptical on election night that he'd keep his promises -- they're skeptical no more. In fact he might have attracted others who were previously apolitical to possibly vote in greater numbers in the next election.

Where that leaves us in the final analysis is anyone's guess. I'm hoping that the latter group represents a fringe and that any increases in his popularity have only a marginal effect otherwise. But who knows...
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:49 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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That's just one reason out of many -- if she had gotten just a very slightly larger fraction of white working class voters in MI, WI, and PA, she would have won the election. I think it's likely (but not certain) Biden would have done so.
I agree that Biden probably would have outperformed her in MI, WI, PA (and MN, but HRC held on to narrowly win the state anyways). Are there any states where you think Biden would have underperformed her? VA with all the aristrocratic Washington insiders maybe? Or out west in heavily-Hispanic states like NM, NV, or CO? What about NH (which HRC won by 2,736 votes)? Would Biden have done better or worse there?
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:03 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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... Trump's support can also be broken down into three basic camps: ...
I voted for Trump, but I don't know which of your three camps I fit into.
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:07 AM
asahi asahi is online now
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I voted for Trump, but I don't know which of your three camps I fit into.
Doesn't matter, as long as you take your hiking gear.

Okay, piss poor attempt at humor. I need new material.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:12 PM
Johnny Ace Johnny Ace is offline
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Now maybe, just maybe, Biden consistently finishes a strong 2nd in races that he loses to Bernie and maybe Clinton consistently finishes in 3rd a la Jeb Bush. And then maybe as it was with Bush, the pressure builds for her to concede by late February. But does she? And meanwhile you've got the legion of Bernie Bros attacking the Democratic establishment, calling it a "rigged' system and that they're the party of Wall Street. Even if Biden finally gets Hillary off of his back, he's still got a much stronger Bernie Sanders contingent to deal with now. Maybe Biden comes away with a win before the convention but it's conceivable in this scenario that this thing goes to the convention without either side having the needed delegates. The convention turns into a brawl over super delegates. Suddenly, what was supposed to be a nightmare for Republicans becomes the nightmare for Democrats instead.
There's a major problem with that scenario. Hillary had a commanding lead over Bernie in the primary, with nobody else in sight. It stretches probability to think that she'd be that far behind two other candidates.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:17 PM
John Mace John Mace is online now
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Clinton got the votes. We just have a flawed election system that declared the guy who came in second place the winner.
Yeah, and the team that scores the most home runs in the World Series should be the winner. We just have a flawed system of scoring that sporting event. :roll eyes: How stupid are those teams that try and win the most games!?!?

I think Joe Biden would have been a very good antidote to Trump. I'm pretty certain he would have beaten Trump. He would not have made a dumb move like trying, on purpose, to win the popular vote. He would have gone to those places HRC neglected, but not only that, he would have actually connected with the voters there.

Last edited by John Mace; 06-13-2017 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:25 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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I agree that Biden probably would have outperformed her in MI, WI, PA (and MN, but HRC held on to narrowly win the state anyways). Are there any states where you think Biden would have underperformed her? VA with all the aristrocratic Washington insiders maybe? Or out west in heavily-Hispanic states like NM, NV, or CO? What about NH (which HRC won by 2,736 votes)? Would Biden have done better or worse there?
Obviously I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess (and with hindsight), Biden would have done better in these states as well -- I think Hillary's voters were mostly the locked-in Democratic voters, and the ones she lost as compared to 2012 were either mostly non-voters who liked Obama but didn't turn out or some in the middle who switched to Trump, and I think Biden would have done slightly better with both groups.

I think the Democrats strongly underestimated how much personal hatred there was out there for Hillary herself.

But we'll see come 2018 and 2020 how the Democrats, and the country, will respond.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:35 PM
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Biden's gaffes are legendary, in the same sense that Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster are. Everyone talks about them, but when asked for specimens, they just produce really vague maybes.
Your memory gaps are not indicative of a lack of evidence. Without even googling I can remember Biden referring to Obama as a "clean" and "articulate" African-American, asking a wheelchair-bound politician to stand up, and inappropriately ribbing Chief Justice Roberts at Inauguration Take Two over Roberts' flubbing of the oath the previous day. With Googling, there are more. He's no Prince Philip, admittedly, but he had more than his share.

He also had a habit of being a little too hands-on with women.

Again - I'm a big fan of Uncle Joe but he is not without his weaknesses and vulnerabilities.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:40 PM
Blank Slate Blank Slate is offline
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I think it's likely Biden would have gotten at least a fraction of a percent more in MI, WI, and especially PA, and thus I think it's likely he would have won. Not certain, of course.
Trump only won those states by a combined 80,000 votes. It was a razor thin margin. Barring any major blunders or scandals, Biden would have beaten Trump.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:42 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Trump only won those states by a combined 80,000 votes. It was a razor thin margin. Barring any major blunders or scandals, Biden would have beaten Trump.
I find the phrase "barring any major blunders" used in conjunction with Biden to be quite comical.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:44 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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I think Joe Biden would have been a very good antidote to Trump. I'm pretty certain he would have beaten Trump. He would not have made a dumb move like trying, on purpose, to win the popular vote. He would have gone to those places HRC neglected, but not only that, he would have actually connected with the voters there.
I'm sure he would have been a better electoral candidate, and undoubtedly taken the popular along with that if successful. There wouldn't have been the kind of anti-Joe contingency equivalent to either the anti-Trump or anti-Hillary counterparts. That's no guarantee of victory, but another factor that would have changed the flavor or the election.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:47 PM
enalzi enalzi is online now
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No, of course not. Nobody would have won against Trump. Half the voters in this country get their information from "news" sources that are at best described as "completely fictitious," and they'd have invented a Biden that ate babies and personally escorted Mexicans and Muslims to coal miners' homes to take their jobs at gunpoint while using up welfare dollars.

The candidate you choose to run against such a misinformation force is irrelevant.
He wouldn't have even need to get those trump voters. Assuming everything else stays the same, an extra 78K votes in MI, WI, and PA gets the election. There were over 700 thousand 3rd party votes in those states. Pull in some of those, get a little bit more from non-voters, and there you.

I think everyone is forgetting how close the election really was.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:48 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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I find the phrase "barring any major blunders" used in conjunction with Biden to be quite comical.
Since the plagiarism thing in the 80s, I'm not sure if Biden has made any "major blunders". Tons of minor blunders, sure. But I can't think of any major ones -- certainly nothing close to Trump's bragging on tape about sexual assault.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:01 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Since the plagiarism thing in the 80s, I'm not sure if Biden has made any "major blunders". Tons of minor blunders, sure. But I can't think of any major ones -- certainly nothing close to Trump's bragging on tape about sexual assault.
"A three-letter word: jobs, J-O-B-S" has got to be up there at least on par with "potatoe", but perhaps you're right. They're typically in the realm of verbal gaffs, not major scandals (aside from the plagiarism thing you already mentioned).
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:07 PM
Blank Slate Blank Slate is offline
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People like Joe, even those with differing political opinions. Charm matters, unfortunately.

A democrat could never survive a major blunder like a chickenhawk disrespecting John McCain's military service. They would never survive the primary. I don't know how Trump got the nomination after that. Republicans are unknowable. When the "family values" party embraces a serial adulterer, what does it all mean?

Had Beau Biden lived, we would probably be talking about President Biden now.
  #46  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:13 PM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank Slate View Post
When the "family values" party embraces a serial adulterer, what does it all mean?
It means that they don't really give a fuck about all those things they give lip service to as long as they get power at the end of it.

Which is exactly how Trump got elected.

Last edited by Gyrate; 06-13-2017 at 01:13 PM.
  #47  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:38 PM
John Mace John Mace is online now
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Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
I'm sure he would have been a better electoral candidate, and undoubtedly taken the popular along with that if successful. There wouldn't have been the kind of anti-Joe contingency equivalent to either the anti-Trump or anti-Hillary counterparts. That's no guarantee of victory, but another factor that would have changed the flavor or the election.
Biden would still have been "establishment" and if that was a deal breaker in this last election, then he would've lost. But I don't think it was a deal breaker. I think it came down to Hillary just not being relatable. And Joe is relatable. Some might say despite his flaws and some might say because of his flaws. He's just an overall positive guy who seems like he'd be cool to hang with.
  #48  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:36 PM
XT XT is offline
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I think the real question is...would Biden have gotten the votes for Romney or Obama got in the election before? Because Trump won with fewer votes than either of them had.

My WAG on this is, yes, he would have gotten at least as many votes as either of them and would have won in the key states the Dems really needed to have in order to secure a victory. I wasn't terribly excited about Biden when the election started and was happy he chose to stay out, but that was mostly because I was planning to vote for Hillary and thought she'd be the best of a bad lot. But if it had come down to Biden verse Trump (or just about anyone who wasn't Sanders), I'd have voted for him with a smile on my face and a song in my heart over Trump. I knew Trump would be a disaster, though even I didn't think it would be this epic after less than a year. Hell, in hindsight I'd vote, today, for Sanders over Trump...or the locally appointed dog catcher for that matter.
  #49  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:51 PM
Icarus Icarus is offline
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I would be curious about how Joe would have handled Trump as a person, especially in a debate setting.

In response to Trump's MO of insults and razzle dazzle, Hillary tried to be a traditional candidate and speak from the script. I can imagine Biden would have been coached to do the same - "appear presidential", "don't get flustered", etc. But, I'm suspecting Joe would have eventually gone off script and taken the opportunity to hit at Trump head on in some more testosterone driven street level ways.

It would have been interesting to see that happen, and how it would have played to the media and electorate. McCain was accused of being a hot-head, but I can certainly see that some portion of the electorate would see that as a positive quality if it were Joe against Trump.
  #50  
Old 06-13-2017, 03:44 PM
pjacks pjacks is offline
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I feel like if Biden is the nominee, he picks a much more exciting & appealing running mate than HRC did. Moderate whitebread Kaine was a a dumb choice, especially when you have a left-wing flank increasingly suspicious of you & a huge non-white contingent in your party.

Biden, alongside someone like Tammy Duckworth or Kamala Harris, maybe ekes out a few more EC votes than Clinton+Kaine, sure.

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