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Old 10-18-2012, 10:02 AM
harmonicamoon harmonicamoon is offline
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"I haven't received a raise in 5 years. Thanks Obama".

This quote is from a friend of mine. He is a blue collar worker. How would you respond to this?
  #2  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:04 AM
Airbeck Airbeck is offline
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Tell him to blame his boss. I mean is the President supposed to dictate salary structures for private businesses?

I don't see the connection between him not getting raises and Obama. How does that work?

Last edited by Airbeck; 10-18-2012 at 10:05 AM.
  #3  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:18 AM
DWMarch DWMarch is offline
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Tell your friend to stop being lazy and blaming other people for his problems. The guy's been working there for five years and no one has taken notice of his contributions? Must mean he isn't making any. He's lucky to have a job at all, especially considering his victimized attitude. He is not entitled to a raise by virtue of there being a President of the United States. Where would he even get such a silly idea?

If Romney is elected he's not going to get a raise. He's going to get fired. The job will either be outsourced to China or deregulated to the point that he can be fired on a whim. He will also lose whatever health care coverage he has. But I guess that will be Obama's fault too.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:20 AM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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"That's odd. I've gotten several raises in the past 4 years. Have you considered the possibility that you're a shit worker?"
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:21 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Before I start cheerleading for Obama, I think I'd need to know a wee bit more about the details of your friend's situation. Don't you think?
  #6  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:23 AM
ladyfoxfyre ladyfoxfyre is offline
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Huh. Who knew your friend works for the President!
  #7  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:26 AM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Before I start cheerleading for Obama, I think I'd need to know a wee bit more about the details of your friend's situation. Don't you think?
You don't need to cheerlead for Obama. It would not matter who was president - his friend still made a stupid statement,even if the friend is a government worker.
  #8  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:27 AM
pseudotriton ruber ruber pseudotriton ruber ruber is offline
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My response would begin, "Huh, Joe Biden, I'm surprised at you..."
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:29 AM
tim314 tim314 is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Before I start cheerleading for Obama, I think I'd need to know a wee bit more about the details of your friend's situation. Don't you think?
Like what? Is Obama his boss? Is he working for a government agency?

If anything like that were true, do you really think the OP would have omitted it?
  #10  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:37 AM
harmonicamoon harmonicamoon is offline
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Before I start cheerleading for Obama, I think I'd need to know a wee bit more about the details of your friend's situation. Don't you think?
He works as a contractor for a huge manufacturing corporation. Has been working for the contractor for 6 years and at the same location.
It is my guess that when he asked for a raise, his employer blamed Obama for him not receiving a raise.
Go ahead John Mace, bring out the Obama banner.
  #11  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:46 AM
CaptMurdock CaptMurdock is offline
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Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
He works as a contractor for a huge manufacturing corporation. Has been working for the contractor for 6 years and at the same location.
Maybe he should thank his boss and/or President Obama for still having a job after 6 years.

Nothing personal, but
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:48 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Pretending anything you say will make a difference: I would gently point out that Obama wasn't president five years ago. The economy crashed and went into a deep recession around the time he took office. Almost everybody wants the recovery to go faster than it's going, but unless your friend is a private employee of Barack Obama, the fact that he has not gotten a raise in five years suggests his friend's industry has problems that go beyond just the broader economic issues, and Obama isn't responsible for those any more than he's responsible for the economy crashing before he was elected. And of course there are a lot of factors that influence the economy beyond just the president (and the rest of the political system).
  #13  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:50 AM
Jas09 Jas09 is offline
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I'd point out that Obama hasn't gotten a raise in 4 years either.
  #14  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:53 AM
Uncle Jocko Uncle Jocko is offline
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Not to mention, Obama actually did lower tax rates for middle-income folks like your friend. AND he's reduced the amount of withholding for FICA (I think it was FICA ... it was something in withholding) over the past couple of years. Methinks your blue-collar friend actually has more take-home pay than he would have had without the President's actions.

Of course, those who believe our President is a socialist/communist/foreigner who can magically control gas prices and China's currency would be completely unable to fathom that he's actually cut income taxes instead. Yet that is the truth. The tax thing, I mean, not the socialist/magic thing.

Last edited by Uncle Jocko; 10-18-2012 at 10:53 AM.
  #15  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:54 AM
tim314 tim314 is offline
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Originally Posted by DWMarch View Post
If Romney is elected he's not going to get a raise. He's going to get fired. The job will either be outsourced to China or deregulated to the point that he can be fired on a whim. He will also lose whatever health care coverage he has. But I guess that will be Obama's fault too.
Well, if he had done a little better at the first debate...
  #16  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:57 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
He works as a contractor for a huge manufacturing corporation. Has been working for the contractor for 6 years and at the same location.
It is my guess that when he asked for a raise, his employer blamed Obama for him not receiving a raise.
Go ahead John Mace, bring out the Obama banner.
In that case, he should ask his employer how, specifically, Obama is responsible. We can't read his mind.
  #17  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:06 AM
Sitnam Sitnam is offline
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My yearly income has doubled in the last five years, I was wondering who I should thank.
  #18  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:09 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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My yearly income has doubled in the last five years, I was wondering who I should thank.
More than doubled for me. Thank you Obama!
  #19  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:18 AM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
This quote is from a friend of mine. He is a blue collar worker. How would you respond to this?
Join a union.
  #20  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:22 AM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
He works as a contractor for a huge manufacturing corporation. Has been working for the contractor for 6 years and at the same location.
It is my guess that when he asked for a raise, his employer blamed Obama for him not receiving a raise.
Go ahead John Mace, bring out the Obama banner.
Did his employer explain the connection?
  #21  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:52 AM
El_Kabong El_Kabong is offline
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The OP may want to say to his friend, "Do you believe the President controls the economy? If the President does control the economy, is that a good thing?"

Last edited by El_Kabong; 10-18-2012 at 11:53 AM.
  #22  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:21 PM
Gangster Octopus Gangster Octopus is offline
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Ask him how his 401k has done under Obama.
  #23  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:25 PM
Enginerd Enginerd is offline
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You get paid market value for your work. STFU or get better at your job. Sincerely, Mitt Romney
  #24  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:27 PM
Hedda Rosa Hedda Rosa is offline
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Tell him this.
  #25  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:36 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
In that case, he should ask his employer how, specifically, Obama is responsible. We can't read his mind.
He should also ask his employer how the manufacturing corporation has done under Obama. There are more than a few companies that are doing quite fine, and whose profits are quite nice.

Maybe show him this page

Quote:
1) Corporate profit margins just hit an all-time high.

2) Fewer Americans are working than at any time in the past three decades. One reason corporations are so profitable is that they don't employ as many Americans as they used to.

3) Wages as a percent of the economy are at an all-time low.
If his company is not one of the many who are doing just great under Obama, then ask him why it is Obama's fault that his specific company is failing.
  #26  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:14 PM
mozchron mozchron is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
More than doubled for me. Thank you Obama!
Me too. And I was doing pretty well 5 years ago to begin with.

Thanks Obama!
  #27  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:23 PM
MsWhich MsWhich is offline
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Personally speaking, I would respond (100% truthfully) by telling him that my freelancing business is doing better right now than at any time since I started freelancing in 2004. I've had more clients in the past three months than in the entire year prior to that. Many of the people on my industry-related listserv are reporting similar experiences.

So basically, my personal anecdote cancels out his personal anecdote. We're going to have to ask a whole shitload more people before we can get to the bottom of this one. Either that or look at some actual data, his choice.
  #28  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:27 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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Originally Posted by tim314 View Post
Like what? Is Obama his boss? Is he working for a government agency?

If anything like that were true, do you really think the OP would have omitted it?
If it were anything like that, I'd suspect that he would be getting step increases in his basic rate every thirty weeks or so.

That's how it works for me (USPS, but I'd be surprised if other federal pay systems aren't at least similar).
  #29  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:49 PM
Jophiel Jophiel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
This quote is from a friend of mine. He is a blue collar worker. How would you respond to this?
"My wife and I have both found new jobs (without losing our old jobs) and increased our household income about 30%. Thanks, Obama!"
  #30  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:04 PM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Was Obama President 5 years ago?

No?

So maybe he isn't the reason you haven't gotten a raise in 5 years but he IS the reason you still have a job.

On the other hand, mad max world looks intersting in the movies.
  #31  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:11 PM
drewtwo99 drewtwo99 is offline
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Nod your head and back away slowly. It's the only way you can deal with people like this.

The other day some guy was ranting to me about voter ID, "Doesn't it bother you that anyone can vote in this country without showing ID? Only in a democratic country like here does this stuff happen! WHY DOESN'T IT BOTHER YOU?"

You really can't engage these people.
  #32  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:20 PM
Sitnam Sitnam is offline
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nm...

Last edited by Sitnam; 10-18-2012 at 03:22 PM.
  #33  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:22 PM
StusBlues StusBlues is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
"That's odd. I've gotten several raises in the past 4 years. Have you considered the possibility that you're a shit worker?"
This, pretty much. My base pay has increased roughly 40% during the Obama administration, mostly because I've had bossed who were convinced I was going to bolt otherwise and wanted to keep me.
  #34  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:26 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
He works as a contractor for a huge manufacturing corporation. Has been working for the contractor for 6 years and at the same location.
It is my guess that when he asked for a raise, his employer blamed Obama for him not receiving a raise.
Go ahead John Mace, bring out the Obama banner.
So, the contracting company is too feeble to negotiate higher fees? Or, maybe they did and screwed your friend and pocketed the increase. Anything keeping him there? If he thinks he is worth more, he should find a job which pays more. He shouldn't blame Obama for him being a pussy. He should be grateful that inflation is pretty low, so he didn't really lose that much purchasing power. Plus what everyone else has said.
  #35  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:28 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by Airbeck View Post
Tell him to blame his boss. I mean is the President supposed to dictate salary structures for private businesses?
Well ... that depends: http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/11/news...tion/index.htm
  #36  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:33 PM
Ca3799 Ca3799 is offline
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Your friend should get a job on Wall Street or for a big oil company- someplace like that. They are rolling in the dough.
  #37  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:06 PM
monstro monstro is online now
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I'd tell him that if he's so miserable, he should self-deport.
  #38  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:14 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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Since those companies were taking government money to stay afloat and it impacts the high level execs who put the companies in that position, no problem.
  #39  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:31 PM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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It doesn't really matter what you tell him. He'll still blame his economic woes on the government, as will many like him. That's the way it works. The buck always stops in the White House.
  #40  
Old 10-18-2012, 09:24 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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There were a couple of very bad growing seasons in England, and food was scarce and expensive. Disraeli's party was voted out. He is supposed to have said something to the effect that the British voter will not forgive a party that fails to control the weather.
  #41  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:02 PM
gfrt654 gfrt654 is offline
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I haven't received a raise in 5 years. Thanks Obama.

Your "friend" is a simpleton or a shill. Obama has been Prez for less than 4 years and when he was sworn in the WORLD
  #42  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:22 PM
a35362 a35362 is offline
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I don't think the four years/five years thing is the point. The guy is saying, "If you're such a great president, how come the economy hasn't improved enough that I've gotten a raise by now?"

I don't know if the guy is a bad worker or not, but I agree that his situation is hardly Obama's fault. It's pretty naive to think that everything is going to turn around so quickly in only four years, when the economy was so bad when he took office. In fact, I think it's just shy of a miracle that it didn't get much worse, although I'm not sure if Obama should get credit for that. Maybe some credit.

But all he can do is tell the voters, "Please try to hang in there and be patient. The economy IS improving a little bit all the time...."
  #43  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:24 PM
PandaBear77 PandaBear77 is offline
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I've worked for the state in 2 different states. Both places I've been told we get raises when the Republicans win elections. I have yet to see proof of this since both states keep electing Democrats, though, so for now I consider it a myth. Nobody gives raises to state employees.
  #44  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:43 PM
Andiethewestie Andiethewestie is offline
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Let's all ask Willard how much his investment income has shot up during the last 4 years.
  #45  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:01 PM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonicamoon View Post
This quote is from a friend of mine. He is a blue collar worker. How would you respond to this?
Five years ago I didn't have a job at all. Now I have permanent, full time employment AND I've gotten two raises in the past year.

The plural of anecdote is not data.
  #46  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:54 PM
harmonicamoon harmonicamoon is offline
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My friend didn't finish high school, but managed to become a master electrician. He is a great employee. I think his main problem is that he has no testicles to give an ultimatum to his employer. I appreciate all your input. This MB rocks! It is full of a lot of free thinkers. Thanks to you I have a response to give to his statement.
  #47  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:03 AM
Try2B Comprehensive Try2B Comprehensive is offline
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Ah, well, if it were a survey or a poll maybe it would be data, no?

Anyhoo, I've gotten a raise every year for 5 years. My gf and I share a wonderful income, apt, food, etc. Better than ever!

EDIT: whoops! Ninja'd by the conclusion

Last edited by Try2B Comprehensive; 10-19-2012 at 12:04 AM.
  #48  
Old 10-19-2012, 09:33 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Ah, well, if it were a survey or a poll maybe it would be data, no?
Perhaps, but a valid poll or survey is more than just collecting random anecdotes.

I'm somewhat amused by the people in my life who say "Are you better off now than four (or five) years ago" in a manner that makes it clear they're expecting a "no" and are flabbergasted when I reply that yes, I am very much better off now than I was then.
  #49  
Old 10-19-2012, 09:52 AM
SirRay SirRay is offline
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Originally Posted by Andiethewestie View Post
Let's all ask Willard how much his investment income has shot up during the last 4 years.
Quite well, it seems:
Quote:
A new report running Thursday in The Nation finds that Romney and his wife, Ann, made at least $15.3 million -- and perhaps tens of millions more -- as a result of bailout funds paid to General Motors. The story, an early copy of which was provided to The Huffington Post, is written by investigative reporter Greg Palast and was backed by the The Investigative Fund at The Nation Institute.
(This was mentioned yesterday - I haven't found any credible reports this morning that debunk it, and apparently Mittens has confirmed he did profit: "Romney's campaign did not deny that he profited from the auto bailout in an email to The Hill Wednesday afternoon, but it said the the report showed the Detroit intervention was "misguided")
  #50  
Old 10-19-2012, 12:01 PM
Hershele Ostropoler Hershele Ostropoler is offline
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I know someone who runs a company poorly who blames Obama for its troubles. Presumably she tells her employees that they're not getting raises because of Obama.

Also, I can see someone saying that who dislikes Obama for some other reason and is just attributing negative things to his presidency for no more reason than that.

And as has been pointed out, Obama wasn't president five years ago. Were the first two or three years of lack of raises due to Bush?
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