Straight Dope Message Board

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by dalej42

Let’s try to be as flexible as possible but I understand we only have until Thursday to get through the draft.

Technically, we have until the 9th because yahoo will let you backdate week 1 lineups if your draft runs long.

As for skipping Retro for being on the clock now 14 hours (and right now it's 4am in Australia), it may be moot anyway. RNATB is next on the clock and for all we know he may be under 20 feet of water down there in Florida. He posted about the Hurricane upthread:

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Sorry guys. I was prepping for the hurricane yesterday and didn't log on. [...] I'll PM Hamlet. Depending on the weather, I may have to send a list of potential picks to Beef or something.

Right next to that post I see Retro responded to this comment from me:

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

Retro and RNATB have hurt us by going extra slow right when slowness was starting to become a problem.

Once they both got back online we really should have gotten preranking lists from both of them: Category 5 Hurricane barreling down on you and being in Australia are both excellent, bullet-proof excuses, but that's only further reason we should probably have taken measures to mitigate the delays. 151

[dalej42]

Can we use our late round draft picks on practice squad guys? Not sure I will but there are a couple of guys I kinda liked in preseason. 152

[Ellis Dee]

We're at the mercy of yahoo for that. If yahoo lists the player, you can draft him. If not, then no. 153

[SenorBeef]

Neither RNATB or Retro sent me any pre-rank lists. If you're going to be gone for an extended period, please do that.

We should (obviously) get this draft done before the NFL season starts and this is definitely the slowest we've ever been. We're at risk for not finishing if we continue to allow 12+ hour delays.

So, yes, as much as I hate to skip anyone, and out of necessity, let's say that RNATB is now on the clock. Mostly I'm doing that so that RNATB's countdown isn't just starting later today if we give retro another 8 hours, because then we'd be looking at spending 2 full days on 2 picks.

So either Retro or RNATB can make the next pick, whoever gets back first. Since it goes Retro, RNATB, Hamlet, RNATB, that means that RNATB should send me a pre-ranked list for that next pick too. 154

[dalej42]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

We're at the mercy of yahoo for that. If yahoo lists the player, you can draft him. If not, then no.

Yup, he’s on Yahoo and was kinda a surprising cut, in my opinion. Actually there’s two guys that got cut that surprised me. 155

[RetroVertigo]

My pick will be posted in two minutes. 156

[RetroVertigo]

2.08 Miles Boykin WR Bal 157

[SenorBeef]

Unfortunately RNATB has 2 of the next 3, making skipping him more costly to him. And he's probably also in a hurricane, so, you know, that sucks to punish him more.

But on the other hand, we really need to get this draft moving, and he had the option of submitting a pre-ranked list.

So... give him until, I don't know, midnight? It seems like if he's not on by then, he's not going to be on anytime soon.

Edit: Sorry, that's midnight pacific, since it's about 12 hours after I said that RNATB can make his pick around noon pacific. 158

[Ellis Dee]

Meh, I say give him until noon Eastern on Monday. Morning picks aren't really our bag; we make our best progress from noon to midnight. Seems pointless to skip him at 3am only to make a few picks between then and noon.

The rest of this post was written before your most recent post, as it was time consuming to research the timing of picks.

Originally Posted by RetroVertigo

2.08 Miles Boykin WR Bal

Since you only have one pick left, and it's 12 picks away, maybe prerank 12 players and send it to to Beef so he can just choose the first one on the list not taken and announce it as soon as you get back the clock.



RNATB hasn't been on the SDMB for 23 hours, which was during the five hour delay yesterday afternoon waiting for pick 2.04. His next pick was 6 picks away from that, which is reasonable to assume we'd get to within the next 24 hours.

I'm thinking he lost power and has no cell service. How long do we want to wait for him? These two picks of his at 2.08 and 2.10 are his last two picks, and if we skip him, I suspect we could cover a lot of ground, greatly reducing the value of his two second rounders when he finally gets back online.



This draft has been super frustrating. If we go by the original idea of the 12-hour window, we've shattered that window five times and counting:

1.04 took 15 hours
1.05 took 21 hours
1.09 took 18 hours
1.11 took 36 hours
2.08 took 18 hours
2.09 ???

I've been only a couple picks away (or the very next pick) for several of these, such that I've been stopping in to check the dope every 15 minutes or so for days on end. (I literally refreshed this thread every 15 minutes for the entire 36 hour window waiting for pick 1.11, at least for the 28 or so hours of it when I wasn't sleeping. That was brutal.)

I'm so ready to not think about this draft until noon tomorrow. Can I have a night off? I two picks left -- 2.12, 3.03 -- and both are in the next 8 picks, but it feels like neither of them will never come... (Preranking for two picks is rough in that you have to include conditionals.) 159

[dalej42]

I agree the pace has been frustrating and it’s been a horrible combination of my job loss, Australia, and a major hurricane on top of a holiday weekend.

Once we’re into round three, is it likely that anyone drafted then is going to be a week one starter? Both the Packers and Bears D/ST are owned and I can’t think of a single non-drafted Packer or Bear that I’d be starting on Thursday, so we’re not in a horrible situation. 160

[Ellis Dee]

I had the same thought, and honestly I think we're already done drafting week 1 starters. The issue is I think yahoo requires full rosters to complete the draft and start the season. It's still workable, and again we could go until Sep 9th without too much issue, but it would introduce a ton of bookkeeping and headache that would be better to avoid if possible.

Totally agreed that it's essentially a blameless perfect storm. (Apologies to RNATB for that analogy.)



List for the new page:


1.01 Petey - Josh Jacobs, RB, Oak
1.02 Beef - David Montgomery, RB, Chi
1.03 Justin - Miles Sanders, RB, Phi
1.04 Overly - Darrell Henderson, RB, LAR
1.05 Justin - Kyler Murray, QB, Arz
1.06 Omni - Justice Hill, RB, Bal
1.07 Gaffer - N'Keal Harry, WR, NE
1.08 Retro - Darwin Thompson, RB, KC
1.09 RNATB - T.J. Hockenson, TE, Det
1.10 Hamlet - Devin Singletary, RB, Buf
1.11 dale - Tony Pollard, RB, Dal
1.12 dale - Damien Harris, RB, NE

2.01 Petey - D.K. Metcalf, WR, Sea
2.02 Beef - Deebo Samuel, WR, SF
2.03 Justin - A.J. Brown, WR, Ten
2.04 Overly - Alexander Mattison, RB, Min
2.05 Ellis - Daniel Jones, QB, NYG
2.06 Omni - J.J. Arcega-Whiteside, WR, Phi
2.07 Gaffer - Parris Campbell, WR, Ind
2.08 Retro - Miles Boykin, WR, Bal
2.09 RNATB -
2.10 Hamlet -
2.11 RNATB -
2.12 Ellis -

3.01 Petey -
3.02 Beef -
3.03 Ellis -
3.04 Overly -
3.05 Jules -
3.06 Omni -
3.07 Gaffer -
3.08 Retro -
3.09 Jules -
3.11 Jules -
3.12 dale -

4.01 Petey -
4.02 Beef -
4.04 dale -
4.05 dale -
4.06 Omni -
4.07 Gaffer -
4.11 Jules -

5.06 Omni -
5.11 Jules -

6.06 Omni - 161

[Really Not All That Bright]

There's a certain poetry to this since I just traded away Tyfreak: 2.09 - Mecole Hardman, WR, KC. I'm PMing Hamlet and also PMing my next pick to Beef. 162

[RetroVertigo]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I was shocked that Retro didn't take Pollard. He has Zeke Elliott and, instead of grabbing his backup and likely weekly starter until Zeke comes back, he took Darwin Thompson (who I'm not a fan of) who is a lower drafted, smaller backup. I get that the Chiefs have a much better offense, but Thompson isn't (and may never be) a starter. Weird to me.

Drafting Pollard is a purely a short-term play for my team. If I believe that Elliott is going to continue being the All-Pro for Dallas that he is then Pollard is never more than a handcuff. Which if my team was a championship contender would be the obvious play. But cost a lot for a 1st round pick.

I saw Thompson as the most likely 2nd stringer RB left to make a significant impact with his team longterm. This became more likely after the Hyde trade and then less likely with the McCoy signing.

Either way, a Sproles type player in that Chiefs offence is a gamble I'm willing to take. 163

[RetroVertigo]

Also I'd like to apologize. I was on my 24 hour trip back home and Dale's pick must have been moments after I checked one last time before boarding. I got into the states with only 2 hours to clear customs and reboard and I was so tired I didn't even think to check when I sat down in my seat. 164

[Ellis Dee]

No worries, Retro. A short airport layover is not a reasonable time to ask someone to make a pick.

And yay! RNATB clocking in at a mere 90 minutes just made my day.

If we get through pick 3.04, the draft should speed up significantly because Justin, Hamlet, myself, RNATB and Overly will all be finished, leaving only 7 of you to finish the draft. (And then Retro wraps up at 3.08 leaving only 6 left.)

EDIT: Erm, I just realized I don't know who I want at 2.12 or 3.03. I should get on that... 165

[Really Not All That Bright]

Just so you guys know, I should be online for a while to make my pick. Storm hasn't arrived yet. 166

[SenorBeef]

Hamlet sent me his pick in PM

2.10 Darren Waller, TE, OAK

And rnatb sent a list for his second pick

2.11 Noah Fant, TE, DEN

Someone PM next up for me please I'm working and gotta run

Edit - if rnatb wants to change that pick since he's here go ahead. I assume it's still what he wants. 167

[Ellis Dee]

I'm next and aware, but have sent you two PMs yesterday and today that I'd love a response to because it impacts what I'm picking now.

EDIT: Love that pick, Hamlet. I was eyeing him at 3.03, but I'm always a sucker for Hard Knocks guys. 168

[Really Not All That Bright]

I'm good with that pick. Also willing to move Hockenson now if anyone wanted him. 169

[Ellis Dee]

Thanks Beef for the timely responses. I'll make my pick in 10 minutes or so. 170

[Ellis Dee]

2.12 Marquise Brown, WR, Bal


I hate this pick; it's giving me panic flashbacks to Tavon Austin, but I stupidly took him with the #1 overall pick in 2013. Yikes. Risking a 2.12 is much less scary and Brown is the clear #1 BPA on my chart, so, yeah.

PMing Petey now... 171

[Petey]

I was in the middle of another league's draft.

I figure why not:

3.01: Dwayne Haskins, QB, Was 172

[dalej42]

Originally Posted by Petey

I was in the middle of another league's draft.

I figure why not:

3.01: Dwayne Haskins, QB, Was

Damn it, I had him targeted if I could have either made a QB trade or else could have cut Keenum. 173

[SenorBeef]

I'm going to be working for a few more hours. I didn't expect to get this far today. It's going to be a while for my pick probably. 174

[Ellis Dee]

Can you estimate a time so I have a target to stay awake for? I would otherwise be going to sleep in a few hours, and would hate to miss your pick by minutes. 175

[SenorBeef]

Actually cancel that. There's an easy pick. Andy Isabella, WR, ARI 176

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by RetroVertigo

Drafting Pollard is a purely a short-term play for my team. If I believe that Elliott is going to continue being the All-Pro for Dallas that he is then Pollard is never more than a handcuff. Which if my team was a championship contender would be the obvious play. But cost a lot for a 1st round pick.

I saw Thompson as the most likely 2nd stringer RB left to make a significant impact with his team longterm. This became more likely after the Hyde trade and then less likely with the McCoy signing.

Either way, a Sproles type player in that Chiefs offence is a gamble I'm willing to take.

I've never owned Sproles, but by my recollection, he had one season (2011) as a potential starter and years as maybe a weak flex play for the rest of his career.

I dont see Thompson as ever being a starter, with a potential top end as a flex play I would never want to rely on. But you own Zeke, and Pollard is his clear backup and talented in his own right with full time starter potential. To me, Pollard has both more upside potential and backup value. Having the backup to a guy you already own is so much more important than having the backup (who maxes out as a part timer even if he starts). But, as always YMMV. 177

[Ellis Dee]

Dammit, everyone I want is apparently on injured reserve, or should be. Pick coming soon. 178

[Ellis Dee]

I want a WR. I was so excited to draft Butler until a last-minute injury check revealed he's already on IR. I don't love the Steelers guy who is literally last on the depth chart and barely made the 53-man roster.

So it's this guy, who very well may go on IR in the coming weeks due to back problems. Plus, I already drafted Pettis last year, and the 49ers isn't exactly the receiving corps you want to double up on. But fuck it, I see nothing good left in the draft, so with my final pick:


3.03 Jalen Hurd, WR, SF



1.01 Petey - Josh Jacobs, RB, Oak
1.02 Beef - David Montgomery, RB, Chi
1.03 Justin - Miles Sanders, RB, Phi
1.04 Overly - Darrell Henderson, RB, LAR
1.05 Justin - Kyler Murray, QB, Arz
1.06 Omni - Justice Hill, RB, Bal
1.07 Gaffer - N'Keal Harry, WR, NE
1.08 Retro - Darwin Thompson, RB, KC
1.09 RNATB - T.J. Hockenson, TE, Det
1.10 Hamlet - Devin Singletary, RB, Buf
1.11 dale - Tony Pollard, RB, Dal
1.12 dale - Damien Harris, RB, NE

2.01 Petey - D.K. Metcalf, WR, Sea
2.02 Beef - Deebo Samuel, WR, SF
2.03 Justin - A.J. Brown, WR, Ten
2.04 Overly - Alexander Mattison, RB, Min
2.05 Ellis - Daniel Jones, QB, NYG
2.06 Omni - J.J. Arcega-Whiteside, WR, Phi
2.07 Gaffer - Parris Campbell, WR, Ind
2.08 Retro - Miles Boykin, WR, Bal
2.09 RNATB - Mecole Hardman, WR, KC
2.10 Hamlet - Darren Waller, TE, Oak
2.11 RNATB - Noah Fant, TE, Den
2.12 Ellis - Marquise Brown, WR, Bal

3.01 Petey - Dwayne Haskins, QB, Was
3.02 Beef - Andy Isabella, WR, Arz
3.03 Ellis - Jalen Hurd, WR, SF
3.04 Overly -
3.05 Jules -
3.06 Omni -
3.07 Gaffer -
3.08 Retro -
3.09 Jules -
3.11 Jules -
3.12 dale -

4.01 Petey -
4.02 Beef -
4.04 dale -
4.05 dale -
4.06 Omni -
4.07 Gaffer -
4.11 Jules -

5.06 Omni -
5.11 Jules -

6.06 Omni -



PMing Overly now... 179

[RetroVertigo]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I've never owned Sproles, but by my recollection, he had one season (2011) as a potential starter and years as maybe a weak flex play for the rest of his career.

I meant as in skill set with his ability to catch out of the back.

I dont see Thompson as ever being a starter, with a potential top end as a flex play I would never want to rely on. But you own Zeke, and Pollard is his clear backup and talented in his own right with full time starter potential. To me, Pollard has both more upside potential and backup value. Having the backup to a guy you already own is so much more important than having the backup (who maxes out as a part timer even if he starts). But, as always YMMV.

I get it, but I see Thompson as having the most upside in his situation. So for me to draft Pollard is using my 1st round pick to select a handcuff where (as I see it) DT has more upside would be a short term play. 180

[dalej42]

And it’ll be fun to look back because we’ve had so many first round RB busts in this league over the years. 181

[Overly Sentimental]

Hey guys sorry in half drink and not near an anything just pick me the top guy and get on with it please and thanks 182

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Overly Sentimental

Hey guys sorry in half drink and not near an anything just pick me the top guy and get on with it please and thanks

Heheh. 183

[Ellis Dee]

It's midnight; I say enjoy the night and get to it tomorrow, preferably by around noon-ish. We did well today. Figure get into the 4th round tomorrow, finish Tuesday and have all day Wednesday if something goes wrong.I 184

[dalej42]

Originally Posted by Overly Sentimental

Hey guys sorry in half drink and not near an anything just pick me the top guy and get on with it please and thanks

I’ll trade you a backup punter for your 2020 1st round pick.

Yeah, get some sleep and come back to pick once you’re sobered up. 185

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

Ha. I was super close to drafting AJ Brown but the situation was so poor for various reasons. Tawan Taylor got traded away an hour later, which is not really a big deal but shows confidence in Brown and gives him a more direct route to playing time and development, and that might've been enough to swing me towards him, and I missed it by an hour. Obviously, now, he's going to become a perennial all-star and I will know for the next decade+ that I missed out on him.

I guess we'll see. I was shuffling between Brown, Samuel, and Parris Campbell, so when you went with Samuel that made it a little easier. Of course, now I'm worried I missed the boat on Campbell. But Indy's situation is complicated this year, so who knows when he'll get significant playing time.

Brown felt like the easier choice because few people seem high on Corey Davis and I figure that either Mariota finally pulls it together this year or they pick up a big name QB in free agency next year.

On the third hand, I really wanted Devin Singletary to fall to 2.03 and I was a little crushed when Hamlet took him. 186

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by RetroVertigo

I meant as in skill set with his ability to catch out of the back.

Which, even if he lives up to being like Sproles one of the best ever at that, means he will still have limited starting value.

Originally Posted by RetroVertigo

I get it, but I see Thompson as having the most upside in his situation.

I would agree if I thought the Chiefs would hand him the starting role, and that he could transition from small school one year wonder to NFL running back. Maybe he does become Ray Rice (minus the women beating of course) as a shorter, do it all back, but I think there's a reason it took 6 rounds to draft him (Rice went in the 2nd), and that he wont ever be a guy you want to start.

Originally Posted by RV

So for me to draft Pollard is using my 1st round pick to select a handcuff where (as I see it) DT has more upside would be a short term play.

With Zeke's extension looking like it will get done, maybe you're right. I just think Pollard projects as a better NFL player than D.T. and I think you underestimate the value of having the backups to your own studs rather than someone elses. 187

[Hamlet]

Who could have guessed people would have differing opinions on NFL players. That's what makes this fun. 188

[RetroVertigo]

The only topic in the world worth debating. 189

[Overly Sentimental]

I appreciate you guys waiting although you didn't have to. Can I have will Grier , qb, car? 190

[Jules Andre]

I guess I'll go with something that is at least potentially useful this season.

Justin Jackson, RB, LAC

Pm sent to Omni 191

[Omniscient]

3.06 Nick Foles, QB, Jax 192

[Ol'Gaffer]

3.07 Ryquell Armstead, RB, JAC

PM sent 193

[RetroVertigo]

3.08 KeeSean Johnson WR Ari 194

[Jules Andre]

Good pick, Retro.

Sorry for the delay, I'm doing this while I'm at work. I have that suspicion that I'm overthinking this, which is made worse by not having early picks and feeling like I need to hit a home run here. So I'll swing for the fences and risk the strike out.

3.09 - Terry McLaurin, WR, Was
3.11 - Preston Williams, WR, Mia

Pm sent to dale 195

[dalej42]

Trade in the works, give me a few minutes to finish it 196

[Omniscient]

Low key think that Foles pick is amazing value and upside in this dismal QB class. 197

[dalej42]

Looks like the person I was finalising the trade has gone to bed. They can announce it in the am. If something falls through. I already know who I’m taking with 3.12 198

[Ellis Dee]

Good progress today, we're fine.

Originally Posted by Omniscient

Low key think that Foles pick is amazing value and upside in this dismal QB class.

I can't fully parse this, but yeah, Foles is solid value from a 3rd round pick.

Originally Posted by Jules Andre

Sorry for the delay, I'm doing this while I'm at work.

In that case, let me refresh the list for you...

EDIT: Actually, let's do that on the next page. 199

[Ellis Dee]

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