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  #1  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:05 PM
chacoguy chacoguy is online now
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Collar Bone Knockout

What, exactly, is happening in THIS video?
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:20 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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Looks like a hit to the carotid artery.
Supplies blood to the brain.

I didn't realize a soft blow like that could cut off blood supply.

Imagine if that had been a hard hit.

Last edited by aceplace57; 06-18-2017 at 08:23 PM..
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  #3  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:23 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Seems fake to me.
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:27 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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It's a brachial stun and it's an instructed maneuver in police DAAT training.
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:41 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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I googled that move. It's quite effective.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:46 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
It's a brachial stun and it's an instructed maneuver in police DAAT training.
But is the video an accurate demonstration of the effectiveness of this move? It seems exaggerated for effect. What makes the person totally unconscious from a split-second strike? I can understand sustained pressure to the area causing unconsciousness but just a rapid strike?? Fight my ignorance please.
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:59 PM
Isilder Isilder is offline
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yeah thats sure to end well. Break the small bones in your hand on his clavicle, thats a great ending.
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:01 PM
cwthree cwthree is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
But is the video an accurate demonstration of the effectiveness of this move? It seems exaggerated for effect. What makes the person totally unconscious from a split-second strike? I can understand sustained pressure to the area causing unconsciousness but just a rapid strike?? Fight my ignorance please.
The carotid sinus (the pressure point in this maneuver) is sensitive to pressure. The body is very quick to react to signals from the carotid sinus. Touch it just right, and your blood pressure will bottom out near instantaneously, causing you to black out and fall down.

This is different from maneuvers that rely on using pressure elsewhere in the neck to reduce the flow of blood to the brain. This does take several seconds to work, as it doesn't cause an abrupt change in blood pressure.
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  #9  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:40 PM
arseNal arseNal is offline
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FWIW, there's also this old viral video I believe purporting to show the same kind of strike, to the left side of the neck.
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  #10  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:54 PM
steatopygia steatopygia is offline
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I would be very interested in a reputable cite.
Carotid sinus massage is sometimes used by physicians to slow a rapid heart rate, but I'm not aware of any instant lowering of b/p. Smarten me!
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:27 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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<Austin Powers>
Judo CHOP!
</Austin Powers>
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:30 AM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steatopygia View Post
I would be very interested in a reputable cite.
Carotid sinus massage is sometimes used by physicians to slow a rapid heart rate, but I'm not aware of any instant lowering of b/p. Smarten me!
Here is a brief synopsis of it.


Here is a link to Wisconsins DAAT manual (albeit an older one). The technique and some of it's variations are described starting on page 54 and continues on page 55. Note: it's in PDF.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:18 PM
mmmiiikkkeee mmmiiikkkeee is offline
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It looks like one of those techniques that can actually work, but would not be preferred because there are many others which are more reliable and easier to use. In the modern era about minimizing risk I can see why police would seldom if ever actually try to use something like this, and why you never see it along with dozens of other pressure point type techniques in combat sports.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:27 PM
steatopygia steatopygia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
Here is a brief synopsis of it.


Here is a link to Wisconsins DAAT manual (albeit an older one). The technique and some of it's variations are described starting on page 54 and continues on page 55. Note: it's in PDF.
pkbites Thank you.

Reading the first page, it states " A sharp blow to the side of the neck causes unconsciousness by shock to the carotid artery, jugular vein, and Vagus nerve. For maximum result, the blow should be focused below and slightly in front of the ear. A less powerful blow causes involuntary muscle spasms and intense pain. The side of the neck is one of the best targets to use to drop an opponent immediately or to disable him temporarily to finish him later."

Ow. I am sure that hurts. But it is not any sort of proof. The only cited materials are two anatomy textbooks which don't have anything to do with blows to the neck. Just drawings and descriptions of the pertinent anatomy.

The second site, which I want to completely read when I get a chance, (Thanks!)
talks about a blow to the neck (pg. 54,55) but, doesn't mention any sort of incapacitating unconsciousness. I could have missed it somewhere else in the manual?

I'm still not saying that this doesn't exist. Just that I haven't seen any convincing proof. And NO, I am not volunteering for anything.

Last edited by steatopygia; 06-19-2017 at 07:29 PM..
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:41 PM
steatopygia steatopygia is offline
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If this effect actually existed, wouldn't it be used in MMA?
Is it banned ? I'm only a casual fan, little else on at 2 AM.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:16 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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There was an old thread on this. A lot of videos are faked. It requires a trained martial artist to hit the right spot with enough force to cause someone to lose consciousness and people with well developed neck muscles can't be taken out easily. It is real, but not at all as easy as many videos show. Allegedly martial artists also condition themselves so they are not as prone to the effect.
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:26 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
There was an old thread on this. A lot of videos are faked.
Yeah every time I watch that video, I am more convinced that it's a fake.
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  #18  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:28 PM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Interesting note:

Up until about 2002 the brachial stun move was considered lethal force (at least in Wisconsin per our Training & Standards division). I can't find a cite for that so you'll just have to believe me that is what we were trained.

Then, after finding that nobody has ever died from it, they took it off the lethal force column on the force continuum.

Before and after neither I nor anyone I know have ever used it, and I've been on the job since '82.
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  #19  
Old 07-19-2017, 08:04 PM
bobkitty bobkitty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambivalid View Post
Yeah every time I watch that video, I am more convinced that it's a fake.
The best way to tell if a fall video is fake is to watch the hands and head of the person falling. Instinct to protect the head will always kick in- either the hands come up to slow the fall/cushion the head, or the person will angle their head/hunch their shoulders to prevent a serious blow. The Marine doesn't move his hands at all, and hits his head pretty firmly at least three times on the way down.

I worked with many patients who faked seizures and falls, and we were amazed at some of the subtle ways they would protect their head.
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  #20  
Old 07-19-2017, 08:33 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkitty View Post
The best way to tell if a fall video is fake is to watch the hands and head of the person falling. Instinct to protect the head will always kick in- either the hands come up to slow the fall/cushion the head, or the person will angle their head/hunch their shoulders to prevent a serious blow. The Marine doesn't move his hands at all, and hits his head pretty firmly at least three times on the way down.

I worked with many patients who faked seizures and falls, and we were amazed at some of the subtle ways they would protect their head.
I can believe the video in the OP is real because a Marine could be an experienced martial artist capable of executing the move. But there's not much impact to the guy's head, he hits the wall with his back first then his head grazes the door as he goes down. Inconclusive IMO, but plausible.
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