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Old 08-19-2015, 04:30 PM
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I know someone with a fairly high IQ (149) who is like wrong about everything.


Well, not everything. But copious amount of salt must be taken with the statements this person makes. Examples include telling me the Jared guy is a child molester, minimum wage is $15, 911 was an inside job; and, worst of all, we are completely out of master links! Out of master links!!! How are you gonna put a chain on without a master link!?!?!??!?!

I think it stems from some sort of strong negative bias and having a highly reactionary personality.

Last edited by Mr. Nylock; 08-19-2015 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:42 PM
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I am acquainted with a man with a fairly high IQ who is a dyed-in-the-wool, to-the-bone conspiracy theorist. He spends hours every day writing eloquently in support of the CT-of-the-day, be it chem trails, the invalidity of the IRS, the "Richest 100" who are going to take over the world, or government plans to round up "truth-tellers" like himself, and all manner of complete and utter nonsense in between. Sorry, but there is no corollation between intelligence and belief.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:56 PM
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Ted Kaczynski
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:16 PM
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Hate to break it to you, but he's right about Jared!

http://fox59.com/2015/08/18/former-s...raphy-charges/
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:21 PM
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According to Jared's plea bargain, your friend is right about that.

Some places have a $15 minimum wage, so you have to give your friend partial credit.

When it comes to 9/11, though, he's just full of shit.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:25 PM
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I've known plenty of people who are highly intelligent, educated, etc. whose lives are completely messed up. Intelligence does not equate to common sense, and high levels of intelligence have actually been correlated with a greater incidence of mental illness as well.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:37 PM
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According to Jared's plea bargain, your friend is right about that.

Some places have a $15 minimum wage, so you have to give your friend partial credit.

When it comes to 9/11, though, he's just full of shit.
He wasn't basing his opinions on any of this information; that's more to the point. The article he showed me on minimum wage said nothing about minimum wage currently being $15 in our area - it was an article about a proposal to raise the minimum wage to $!5 in 3 years getting over one hurdle.

He didn't base his opinion on the Jared thing on a guilty plea - just an article that only remotely hinted at his involvement.

And we do have master links - he was definitely wrong about that.

ETA: Your min. wage article says nothing about it currently being $15 anywhere. Jared! Say it ain't so!

Last edited by Mr. Nylock; 08-19-2015 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:52 PM
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When creating a new character, Intelligence and Wisdom are categorised as different abilities, and so have separate dice rolls. It's possible to have someone with the maximum Intelligence of 18 and, at the same time have the minimum Wisdom of 3 (and vice versa). The two axes of Alignment (Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic and Good-Neutral-Evil) are not rolled for and instead are chosen by the player.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:54 PM
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People with high IQ's wind up on opposite sides of debates. Many people with high IQ's have joined religious cults.
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:30 PM
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He's wrong about the richest 100. They have already taken over the world.
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:31 PM
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Through the years I've met a number of people who sailed through university, were members of Mensa and had IQ's that were through the roof. In a number of cases I got the feeling the the more the IQ, the more it pushed out Common Sense.

One of 'em (like the person Jay Ray knows) never met a conspiracy he didn't like.
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:50 PM
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Does he by chance have schizophrenia, paranoid subtype, or schizotypy? Because that is correlated with higher than average IQ. Many (though not all) paranoid schizophrenics are into conspiracy theories, and also into forming certainty based on very little information.

I'd also question the 145 number. It's not impossible, of course, but that would put him in the top one half of one percent of people in the US, 4 standard deviations above the mean.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:19 PM
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In a number of cases I got the feeling the the more the IQ, the more it pushed out Common Sense.
This has been my exact theory since high school. More book smarts, less walking-around smarts. Totally inverse relationship.
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Old 08-20-2015, 12:20 AM
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OP, I would like to know what your perception of the IQ scale is like. 149 is WAY higher than "fairly" high.
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Old 08-20-2015, 12:30 AM
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I'd also question the 145 number. It's not impossible, of course, but that would put him in the top one half of one percent of people in the US, 4 standard deviations above the mean.
3 standard deviations. I assume most people know hundreds of people, so having one acquaintance in that range wouldn't be at all unusual. If the OP is in a STEM field, then people are already likely to be in the ~90th percentile for IQ, and so knowing someone in the 99.7th percentile would be even less unusual.
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:35 AM
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I'd never heard of a "master link" before so I Googled, and apparently it's just a little piece of metal. How could we be "out" of something so easy to manufacture?
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:37 AM
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I've known plenty of people who are highly intelligent, educated, etc. whose lives are completely messed up. Intelligence does not equate to common sense, and high levels of intelligence have actually been correlated with a greater incidence of mental illness as well.
It seems safe to me to operate on the idea that there's no such thing as common sense. In the first place, no two people have had the same life experiences. Second is that he people I usually hear saying someone else does not have common sense are, in fact, simply saying that the other person has not done what the complainer supposedly would do in that situation. Of course, the complainer generally has more information about the incident because it's almost always commentary in hindsight.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:31 AM
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Second is that he people I usually hear saying someone else does not have common sense are, in fact, simply saying that the other person has not done what the complainer supposedly would do in that situation.
I used to get told I had no common sense a lot when I was in my 20s, and yet I was sure I carefully thought through my actions in a logical manner. The fact that they didn't turn out the way I predicted was hardly my fault, but I got blamed. It confused and frustrated me. I also decided that "common sense" was not a real thing.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:26 AM
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. Examples include telling me minimum wage is $15,and, worst of all, we are completely out of master links
This guy may have a high IQ, but he is NOT intelligent. He may be good enough at math and solving Rubik cubes that he measures high on the IQ test. That just proves that the IQ test is a joke--it measures puzzle-solving skills, but it does not measure intelligence.

If he believes in 9/11 conspiracy theories, then he is just weird.
And if he doesn't know how to google for the minimun wage, then he is both weird and stupid.
And if he is both weird, stupid, and scores high on IQ tests, then he's crazy. I wouldn't trust him to feed my cat when I go on vacation.
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Old 08-20-2015, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
I used to get told I had no common sense a lot when I was in my 20s, and yet I was sure I carefully thought through my actions in a logical manner. The fact that they didn't turn out the way I predicted was hardly my fault, but I got blamed. It confused and frustrated me. I also decided that "common sense" was not a real thing.
I can't tell if this is a whoosh or not.
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Old 08-20-2015, 07:20 AM
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I can't tell if this is a whoosh or not.
It's not. The common sense I was accused of not having involved anticipating things I couldn't possibly guess. It wasn't about what I did, it was about the result, which wasn't what the other person wanted. I didn't know what they wanted, I didn't know that what I was doing was not what they wanted, but I was apparently supposed to have the "common sense" to know all that.
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Old 08-20-2015, 07:54 AM
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I used to get told I had no common sense a lot when I was in my 20s, and yet I was sure I carefully thought through my actions in a logical manner. The fact that they didn't turn out the way I predicted was hardly my fault, but I got blamed. It confused and frustrated me. I also decided that "common sense" was not a real thing.
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It's not. The common sense I was accused of not having involved anticipating things I couldn't possibly guess. It wasn't about what I did, it was about the result, which wasn't what the other person wanted. I didn't know what they wanted, I didn't know that what I was doing was not what they wanted, but I was apparently supposed to have the "common sense" to know all that.
Could you be a little more vague, please?
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:12 AM
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For the most part, people's beliefs are driven more by what they want to believe than on facts and reason.

Intelligence can help someone avoid believing things that are completely stupid, but it can also help a person come up with clever ways to rationalize the things they want to believe. So that cuts both ways.

And being very intelligent can sometimes give a person more confidence and the ability to believe that they have it right and everyone else is wrong, where a less intelligent person might be more apt to bow to the weight of public opinion.

[In general, intelligence is very overrated, though useful in certain fields.]
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:28 AM
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It's not. The common sense I was accused of not having involved anticipating things I couldn't possibly guess. It wasn't about what I did, it was about the result, which wasn't what the other person wanted. I didn't know what they wanted, I didn't know that what I was doing was not what they wanted, but I was apparently supposed to have the "common sense" to know all that.
I define common sense as being about to use reason to reach a conclusion about how the world operates based on the convergence of two or more simple and ordinary set of conditions.

Like, if you cross the street without looking, you might get hit by a car. Cars + pedestrian inattentiveness = accident.

If you pinch a baby, it will probably cry.

If you curse out the boss and turn in your assignments late, don't expect to be promoted.

If you stink and dress sloppily on your first date, your chances of a second date are next to nothing.

Can you give us an example of a prediction you were expected to make that was considered common sense, but isn't comparable to the cause-and-effects I just described? When I hear people contesting the notion of common sense, it makes me doubt we're talking about the same thing.

Last edited by you with the face; 08-20-2015 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:29 AM
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Could you be a little more vague, please?
I wish I could remember some specifics, but it was 25 years ago. I was just agreeing with Monty that "common sense" means different things to different people, which cancels it out.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:30 AM
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It's not. The common sense I was accused of not having involved anticipating things I couldn't possibly guess. It wasn't about what I did, it was about the result, which wasn't what the other person wanted. I didn't know what they wanted, I didn't know that what I was doing was not what they wanted, but I was apparently supposed to have the "common sense" to know all that.

Can you share with us a specific example of what you're talking about please?
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:42 AM
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Online IQ tests can give an average person an Extremely High IQ number. Just saying...
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:57 AM
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I'm a long time member of Mensa and use to go to a lot of various Mensa meetings. There were a few really strange people there. However most were relatively normal people who happened to be able to think rather quickly and deeper.

As far as common sense, I'm a really good mechanic having worked on cars, bicycles, and even aircraft for 24 years. I'm in IT now. As an aside: get 50 Mensans in a room and 50 IT people and you'll find that the IT people are much stranger. Also about 10 of the IT people would qualify for Mensa.

As far as master links for chains, tell your friend that both KMC and SRAM make great master links for bicycle chains. I just bought 4 on EBay for 10- and 9-speed chains.
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:58 AM
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Okay, I cannot remember anything specific, but here's the best approximate example I can think of.

Someone would phone my roommate while he was at work. I took the message, but didn't write it down as I was expecting him home in an hour and I knew I'd remember it. The hour passes and he still isn't home. Turns out he ran into some friends and went out to dinner. I had scheduled to go out with my friends later that night, so before he came home, I'd already gone out - end result he didn't get the message from me until after work the next day, which was very late.

He argued the common sense thing to do was to write the message down. My logic was to tell him as I had no reason to think he wouldn't be home at the regular time.

My argument is my "common sense" is just as valid as his "common sense".

In this example I did do the wrong thing, and as I say it's not an actual thing that happened, but it's the fact that what I thought was logical "common sense" thinking was considered by him to not be.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:03 AM
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OP, I would like to know what your perception of the IQ scale is like. 149 is WAY higher than "fairly" high.
A lot depends on the IQ test. Some have a fairly wide standard deviations. Years ago I took a couple of proctored IQ tests. I scored 148 on one but it was actually lower than the 138 that I scored on the other on the percentile scale. If memory serves, one was Standford-Binet and the other was the California Test Of Mental Maturity. However both were at or above the 98th percentile.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:12 AM
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Okay, I cannot remember anything specific, but here's the best approximate example I can think of.

Someone would phone my roommate while he was at work. I took the message, but didn't write it down as I was expecting him home in an hour and I knew I'd remember it. The hour passes and he still isn't home. Turns out he ran into some friends and went out to dinner. I had scheduled to go out with my friends later that night, so before he came home, I'd already gone out - end result he didn't get the message from me until after work the next day, which was very late.

He argued the common sense thing to do was to write the message down. My logic was to tell him as I had no reason to think he wouldn't be home at the regular time.

My argument is my "common sense" is just as valid as his "common sense".

In this example I did do the wrong thing, and as I say it's not an actual thing that happened, but it's the fact that what I thought was logical "common sense" thinking was considered by him to not be.

The 'common sense' thing to do would be to write down the message before you went out, so he would see it when he got home, not when you remembered to tell him the next day.

When I had room mates, back in the bad old days before everyone had cellphones, we had a notebook by the phone for just that kind of event, and for any other messages we needed to convey - like buy milk, or feed the cat.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:21 AM
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Okay, I cannot remember anything specific, but here's the best approximate example I can think of.

Someone would phone my roommate while he was at work. I took the message, but didn't write it down as I was expecting him home in an hour and I knew I'd remember it. The hour passes and he still isn't home. Turns out he ran into some friends and went out to dinner. I had scheduled to go out with my friends later that night, so before he came home, I'd already gone out - end result he didn't get the message from me until after work the next day, which was very late.

He argued the common sense thing to do was to write the message down. My logic was to tell him as I had no reason to think he wouldn't be home at the regular time.

My argument is my "common sense" is just as valid as his "common sense".

In this example I did do the wrong thing, and as I say it's not an actual thing that happened, but it's the fact that what I thought was logical "common sense" thinking was considered by him to not be.
You didn't have common sense.

You see, common sense would recognize the fact that sometimes unexpected things happen, and would likely take simple, easy steps to prepare for unexpected things--such as writing down a message.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:24 AM
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I'd never heard of a "master link" before so I Googled, and apparently it's just a little piece of metal. How could we be "out" of something so easy to manufacture?
This one was really mind boggling to me. I thought I knew what a master link was, but then I had to look it up because how can we be out of them? Just...make more.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:26 AM
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He wasn't basing his opinions on any of this information; that's more to the point. The article he showed me on minimum wage said nothing about minimum wage currently being $15 in our area - it was an article about a proposal to raise the minimum wage to $!5 in 3 years getting over one hurdle.

He didn't base his opinion on the Jared thing on a guilty plea - just an article that only remotely hinted at his involvement.
Of your four examples of your friend being wrong, you were wrong 50% of the time. Coverage of the molestation and child porn charges made it as clear as they reasonably could that they had tons of evidence against him. If I were talking about it, I wouldn't have gone around saying he was guilty before his plea, but it was pretty clear to me he was guilty.

Likewise, I've read at least a dozen articles in the past year about raising the minimum wage to $15/hour in various isolated places, especially Seattle. Even assuming he got confused about whether it's been implemented, he sounds a lot more knowledgeable than you on the subject, since you seemed to think the idea was on par with 911 conspiracies.

I don't understand the master link thing at all. Is that a joke?
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:29 AM
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I'd never heard of a "master link" before so I Googled, and apparently it's just a little piece of metal. How could we be "out" of something so easy to manufacture?
I share your confusion. It's like saying that the world is out of chairs. There's all kinds of master links out there from bicycle chains to conveyor belts. Unless he was speaking of some specific niche of master links his statement made no sense.

There was no need to mention minimum wage, Jared or 911 in the op. Those three issues, while strongly proven, still have some room for debate left in them. Once he said "master links" his argument got ridiculous.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:33 AM
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The 'common sense' thing to do would be to write down the message before you went out, so he would see it when he got home, not when you remembered to tell him the next day.
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You didn't have common sense.
I know:
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In this example I did do the wrong thing
This is why I was being circumspect instead of being specific, because you're missing my point. The incident I just described DID NOT ACTUALLY HAPPEN, it is an example of the cross-purpose thinking that confused me. He kept saying I had no common sense. I believed I did, it just didn't align with his. Which makes it not "common" at all.

I have since learned that what he really wanted was for me to anticipate his expectations and fulfil those, like any considerate person would. "Common sense" never actually figures into it at all. Now I try to be that way every time.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:38 AM
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Okay, I cannot remember anything specific, but here's the best approximate example I can think of.

Someone would phone my roommate while he was at work. I took the message, but didn't write it down as I was expecting him home in an hour and I knew I'd remember it. The hour passes and he still isn't home.
Do you dispute that at this point, you should have realized your initial assumption was wrong and immediately reevaluated the logic of not writing down the message? Since the prudence of your choice was contingent on your roommate coming home soon, common sense (as I define it) would dictate a change in action when he didn't.

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He argued the common sense thing to do was to write the message down. My logic was to tell him as I had no reason to think he wouldn't be home at the regular time.
I don't think your logic was as valid as his. You had plenty reason to think he wouldn't be home at the regular time, because he failed to show up at his regular time!
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:39 AM
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I define common sense as being about to use reason to reach a conclusion about how the world operates based on the convergence of two or more simple and ordinary set of conditions.

Like, if you cross the street without looking, you might get hit by a car. Cars + pedestrian inattentiveness = accident.

If you pinch a baby, it will probably cry.

If you curse out the boss and turn in your assignments late, don't expect to be promoted.

If you stink and dress sloppily on your first date, your chances of a second date are next to nothing.

Abomination!
Take thy divination witchcraft and get thee back to Hell, foul sorceress!
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:39 AM
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An IQ test really doesn't measure your intelligence, rather it measure your POTENTIAL intelligence, which are quite often miles apart.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:40 AM
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I know:
This is why I was being circumspect instead of being specific, because you're missing my point. The incident I just described DID NOT ACTUALLY HAPPEN, it is an example of the cross-purpose thinking that confused me. He kept saying I had no common sense. I believed I did, it just didn't align with his. Which makes it not "common" at all.

I have since learned that what he really wanted was for me to anticipate his expectations and fulfil those, like any considerate person would. "Common sense" never actually figures into it at all. Now I try to be that way every time.
Most people would have written down the message before they left. That would have been the most common behavior. So, it's common sense.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:45 AM
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I know:
This is why I was being circumspect instead of being specific, because you're missing my point. The incident I just described DID NOT ACTUALLY HAPPEN, it is an example of the cross-purpose thinking that confused me. He kept saying I had no common sense. I believed I did, it just didn't align with his. Which makes it not "common" at all.

I have since learned that what he really wanted was for me to anticipate his expectations and fulfil those, like any considerate person would. "Common sense" never actually figures into it at all. Now I try to be that way every time.
This is why I asked for specific examples. I fear that even if you were able to remember specifics, your story would break down just like your hypothetical one has.
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:03 AM
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This is why I asked for specific examples. I fear that even if you were able to remember specifics, your story would break down just like your hypothetical one has.
I'm sure a real example would've been more convincing, but it was 25 years ago, I can't remember one. But my point still stands: Common sense isn't common. We all think too differently for that to be so.
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:12 AM
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My therapist once told me that the only difference in those of higher intelligence is that they are better at rationalizing and obfuscating their points.

In other words, the smarter you are, the easier it is for you to come up with a believable lie--even one you yourself believe.

Hell, one of the proposed reasons for the intelligence explosion in human primates is that there was a feedback loop where each of us had to get smarter to outsmart the previously smartest person in order to reproduce.

Last edited by BigT; 08-20-2015 at 10:14 AM.
  #44  
Old 08-20-2015, 10:16 AM
Greg Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
It's not. The common sense I was accused of not having involved anticipating things I couldn't possibly guess. It wasn't about what I did, it was about the result, which wasn't what the other person wanted. I didn't know what they wanted, I didn't know that what I was doing was not what they wanted, but I was apparently supposed to have the "common sense" to know all that.
As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!
  #45  
Old 08-20-2015, 10:42 AM
Blaster Master is offline
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Coincidentally, I have the same IQ as the person mentioned in the OP. I can say myself that I've believed some unusual things over time, though a lot of that had to do with how I was raised and I eventually realized I was wrong. That said, I still have some beliefs that aren't mainstream, not conspiracy theory types of beliefs, more of the philosophical kind.

That said, I do recall reading about a study once that actually indicated that intelligent people are often more likely than those of average intelligence to fall for conspiracy theories and scams and such. As far as conspiracy theories go, part of the justification is that a large part of what makes people intelligent is their ability to recognize patterns, and this can lead to identifying patterns that aren't there, and their high intelligence can also lead to distrusting the opinions of others who are less intelligent. And it's similar with scams, trusting their own ability to judge an opportunity too much, possibly not realizing that parts of it are out of their competence, and thus falling for the scam.

But even putting that study aside, there's intelligent people all over the place. You can find them all over the political spectrum, though there are some areas where they are more or less common. Similarly, you can find them of all sorts of religious varieties. And you'll certainly find them believing plenty of nonsense too. If someone is really intelligent and knows a lot one or even several topics, they may be thoroughly ignorant on another and just fall into believing something pretty silly.

And I can also say, speaking for myself, that sometimes I formulate a belief and can get stuck going in my head creating all kinds of convoluted justifications, even if the original belief is more or less on a whim. I've put in a lot of time learning how to identify what beliefs I have that are legitimately backed up by reason, which ones are based on opinion or taste (and should be, like music, food preferences, etc), and which ones are basically derived from intellectual masturbation, and I've largely learned how to unwind them. Sometimes I still need someone to call me out on them though.
  #46  
Old 08-20-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
I'm sure a real example would've been more convincing, but it was 25 years ago, I can't remember one. But my point still stands: Common sense isn't common. We all think too differently for that to be so.
Despite how badly your hypothetical example failed to prove your point, I think this point is still valid. We see a lot egregious folderol aggressively defended by the clueless by calling it "common sense", so calling anything "common sense" feels like begging the question.

ETA: The other phrase I've learned to treat as a red flag for idiocy is "It stands to reason..." "It stands to reason that there's no such thing as global warming." "Umm... it's been very carefully reasoned out that AGW is occurring."

Last edited by gnoitall; 08-20-2015 at 11:05 AM.
  #47  
Old 08-20-2015, 11:53 AM
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Does he by chance have schizophrenia, paranoid subtype, or schizotypy? Because that is correlated with higher than average IQ. Many (though not all) paranoid schizophrenics are into conspiracy theories, and also into forming certainty based on very little information.
STOP TALKING ABOUT ME!!!

I know you all hate me. *sniffle*
  #48  
Old 08-20-2015, 11:58 AM
Smeghead is offline
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Why on earth would you believe your friend's reported IQ, since he's wrong about everything else?
  #49  
Old 08-20-2015, 11:59 AM
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A lot depends on the IQ test. Some have a fairly wide standard deviations. Years ago I took a couple of proctored IQ tests. I scored 148 on one but it was actually lower than the 138 that I scored on the other on the percentile scale. If memory serves, one was Standford-Binet and the other was the California Test Of Mental Maturity. However both were at or above the 98th percentile.
This was my experience also. When I took the proctored Mensa test, at 17, I scored 142. Since then, I've taken at least one other different IQ test in which I scored slightly lower but, as JerrySTL says, that score was considered higher than the 148 and both above the 98th percentile.
  #50  
Old 08-20-2015, 12:17 PM
Vinyl Turnip is offline
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Here we go.
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