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  #1  
Old 08-09-2019, 06:03 PM
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Antonio Brown is a douchebag


https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/...11btztst6vimv?

Brown will only play football if he can keep using his outdated helmet.
  #2  
Old 08-09-2019, 06:17 PM
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Hey now, let’s be fair. I think you’re being too hard on Antonio. The purpose of a helmet is to protect the head, and in his case I’m not sure how much that matters.

Case in point:

Gruden also said he "expects a lot more drama from No. 84" after Brown arrived to camp in a hot-air balloon.

Isn’t it a lost cause by now?

Last edited by Atamasama; 08-09-2019 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:23 PM
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I liked this line too:

Quote:
Brown started training camp on the non-football injury list with a "minor injury," and it was later reported that he got frostbite on his feet from a cryotherapy machine after using it "without the proper footwear."
He gave himself frostbite. I agree it might be too late for the helmet to help.
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:37 PM
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So glad the Steelers got rid of Brown and Bell.
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Old 08-09-2019, 06:43 PM
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It been a while since we a true top-tier jackass diva WR, I guess nature decided it was a role that needed filled.
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Old 08-09-2019, 09:21 PM
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It been a while since we a true top-tier jackass diva WR, I guess nature decided it was a role that needed filled.
Brown makes Terrell Owens look like a team player. Fuck I can't stand this piece of crap, and as much as it hurts to call out someone from my alma mater, fuck O'Dell Beckham as well.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:43 PM
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Turns out the Steelers played Oakland in the off-season much better than during the regular season.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:04 AM
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So glad the Steelers got rid of Brown and Bell.
Agree with you there. Did you hear about the time he driving down McKnight Road going over 100 mph?


Now if only Ben would retire...
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Old 08-10-2019, 03:32 AM
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And there are still people who think that what happened with Brown and Bell are Pittsburgh’s fault. Every day and every headline proves where the fault lies.

I have a theory that when Burfict tried to kill him in the playoffs two years ago it scrambled his brain and CTE is manifesting itself. Prior to that one hit he was a diva, after that he was very erratic in ways he was not before. And now Burfict is his teammate, which is simultaneously sad and wryly amusing at the same time. At least he doesn’t have to worry about that lunatic making him worse than he already did.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:00 AM
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Agree with you there. Did you hear about the time he driving down McKnight Road going over 100 mph?
Dude gives us potheads a bad name.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:19 AM
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Agree with you there. Did you hear about the time he driving down McKnight Road going over 100 mph?


Now if only Ben would retire...
I agree with USAF: there's something scrambled upstairs with that guy. It's beyond just being a rich a-hole football player; he's showing signs of really erratic behavior.
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Old 08-11-2019, 01:45 PM
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Playing devil's advocate...

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He gave himself frostbite.
Do we know this for sure? Isn't it quite possible that the facility he went to screwed up by not providing proper footwear/explanation/etc?

As for the helmet thing (which I think is hilarious), at this point I think it's too early to conclude that he's serious and not just posturing. Other players like Brady and Rodgers have complained about wanting to use older helmets and worked to grandfather their old models in as long as possible. Sure, when the new rules hit they're quietly going along with them, but Brown's always been a loudmouth. He's not actually going to retire and leave $30 mil on the table over a helmet.

The whole helmet rule is arbitrary anyways... nothing's been shown to be wrong with his helmet model, it's just that the NFL has a blanket rule that helmets older than 10 years aren't approved.

Basically, while these two stories are amusing for their drama, I wouldn't say that they're signs of erratic CTE behavior or anything. Now, if you want to talk about the furniture off the balcony story (which no one in this thread mentioned), that's another thing...

Last edited by magnusblitz; 08-11-2019 at 01:49 PM.
  #13  
Old 08-11-2019, 06:39 PM
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Love the painting of the helmet in similar, but not quite, Oakland colors. AB as Wile-E-Coyote.
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Old 08-11-2019, 08:07 PM
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Love the painting of the helmet in similar, but not quite, Oakland colors. AB as Wile-E-Coyote.
I really hope a picture of this surfaces. Unfortunately sounds like it was at a mini camp before Hard Knocks.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:41 PM
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Playing devil's advocate...

Do we know this for sure? Isn't it quite possible that the facility he went to screwed up by not providing proper footwear/explanation/etc?
It's far more likely that he screwed it up than they screwed it up. They do this every day, and know what is and isn't dangerous.

However, playing devil's advocate... I'm not keen on slamming the guy even if it was his fault. He didn't get hurt hang gliding, or getting in a drunken brawl at 3am, he got hurt undergoing a legitimate treatment to improve his football career.

Re: the helmet, the real question is what he does when his grievance is turned down. Everything until then is theater, which I expect from a diva WR.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:58 PM
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However, playing devil's advocate... I'm not keen on slamming the guy even if it was his fault. He didn't get hurt hang gliding, or getting in a drunken brawl at 3am, he got hurt undergoing a legitimate treatment to improve his football career.
Bolding mine, and I'd like a cite. Here is a cite that says whole body cryotherapy is woo.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:00 PM
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As someone who has never played football in a helmet, what is such a big deal about it? Does the new helmet restrict Brown's vision in some way? Is it heavier? I assume it's safer than his current (old) helmet. Why do guys like Brady fuss about their old vs. new helmets as well?
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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As someone who has never played football in a helmet, what is such a big deal about it?
Did you play high-school, college, or the pros without a helmet?
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:31 PM
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Did you play high-school, college, or the pros without a helmet?
No, I've only ever played intramural flag football, which is almost nothing like actual real football. But I'm asking why Brown insists on making such a fuss over a helmet switch, when most of the other 2,000 NFL players don't see a big deal with it.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:32 PM
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Bolding mine, and I'd like a cite. Here is a cite that says whole body cryotherapy is woo.
Fair 'nuff, I'm not in the pocket of Big Cryo. He was hurt undergoing a ... popular ... treatment to improve his football career.

Point being, he wasn't hurt while being an inherently selfish "screw the team, I'll do what I want" ass, he was hurt while genuinely attempting to better himself for the football season. That's the sort of mistake that is forgivable.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:56 PM
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Does the new helmet restrict Brown's vision in some way?
This is his claim, precisely.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/8/...ule-retirement
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But Brown believes the new certified helmet protrudes out and interferes with his vision as he tries to catch the football, according to Schefter.
  #22  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:57 PM
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But you gotta be some special kinda stupid (or stoned) to take a dip in that thing without adequate protection.
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:08 PM
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This amusing article discusses Brown’s odds of winning a lawsuit against the NFL:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/08/11/an...-legal-dispute

Spoiler: Not good.
  #24  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:06 PM
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AB is, in my estimation, simply an attention whore. The helmet kerfuffle is just the latest "pay attention to me!" moment that he needs to distract from his sheer idiocy of freezing the skin off his own feet. Dogs gonna bark, fish gonna swim, ABs gonna need headlines.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:15 PM
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AB is, in my estimation, simply an attention whore. The helmet kerfuffle is just the latest "pay attention to me!" moment that he needs to distract from his sheer idiocy of freezing the skin off his own feet. Dogs gonna bark, fish gonna swim, ABs gonna need headlines.
If he doesn't back this up with a big season, I predict he's about done. LeVeon Bell too.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:44 AM
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If he doesn't back this up with a big season, I predict he's about done. LeVeon Bell too.
Bell just wanted more money, as is his right. He wasn’t an attention whore, or diva. He believed his skills were worth more than he was offered. Regardless of whether he was right or not, he had every right to not play and seek a better deal. AB on the other hand is the type of diva WR which until now I’d only seen in fiction.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:56 PM
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Bell just wanted more money, as is his right. He wasn’t an attention whore, or diva. He believed his skills were worth more than he was offered. Regardless of whether he was right or not, he had every right to not play and seek a better deal. AB on the other hand is the type of diva WR which until now I’d only seen in fiction.
I largely supported Bell’s decision because, as you said, he just wanted more money. He wasn’t under contract and it was his choice. I can’t say I wasn’t annoyed, though, after his “I want to play my entire career in Pittsburgh” and “I’m about to have my best season” comments while turning down an extension better than the contract he ultimately got from the Jets.

But what really pissed me off was his comments in training camp, about how he was ready to touch the ball 450 times to win the Super Bowl, this after justifying his holdout by saying that Pittsburgh was going to use him up, and his apology to fantasy players but not a peep to those of us who supported him even though his actions hurt Pittsburgh by causing a huge distraction. That’s when I realized that he was as big a jackass as Brown is.
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:03 PM
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I largely supported Bell’s decision because, as you said, he just wanted more money. He wasn’t under contract and it was his choice. I can’t say I wasn’t annoyed, though, after his “I want to play my entire career in Pittsburgh” and “I’m about to have my best season” comments while turning down an extension better than the contract he ultimately got from the Jets.
The Steelers only offered $10 million guaranteed. The Jets gave him more than triple that. Though he ended up getting less than he wanted, he got more “real” money than he would have if he hadn’t held out.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/...ets-guaranteed
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Old 08-17-2019, 08:26 PM
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The Steelers only offered $10 million guaranteed. The Jets gave him more than triple that. Though he ended up getting less than he wanted, he got more “real” money than he would have if he hadn’t held out.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/...ets-guaranteed
All the reports I saw gave him $33 million guaranteed in the first two years. The Jets gave him $25 million. He very much miscalculated.
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:36 PM
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All the reports I saw gave him $33 million guaranteed in the first two years. The Jets gave him $25 million. He very much miscalculated.
No. The Steelers offered him $10 million guaranteed out of $70 million total over 5 years. They claimed it had “rolling guarantees” in addition but that was BS marketing speak. Any “guarantee” that has contingencies isn’t a guarantee, it’s just a regular contract.

The Jets gave him $52.5 million, which is less than what the Steelers offered, but it includes $35 million in guarantees. So if Bell is hurt, has a falling out with the team, or just gets cut he will get all of that $35 million.

Bell had said publicly when the Steelers offered him $60 million that it wasn’t enough, and when they upped it to $70 million he still wouldn’t take it. When he took less than $60 million to be a Jet it does make him seem like a fool given his public statements, but it all comes down to guaranteed money.
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:43 PM
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This CBS story contradicts what SB Nation said somewhat:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/l...ting-out-2018/

But this page backs it up:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york...on-bell-12329/

$27 million in salary guarantees plus $8 million in a signing bonus does total the $35 million that SB Nation reported.

Sports Illustrated also confirms the $35 million:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/03/13/le...agreement-jets

Bleacher Report says $35 million:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ee-to-contract

I’m guessing it’s $35 million.
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:20 PM
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No. The Steelers offered him $10 million guaranteed out of $70 million total over 5 years.
God forbid I defend the Steelers (good owners, horrible fans), but most everything I read was that the Steeler guaranteed $33 million.
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Originally Posted by Ata
They claimed it had “rolling guarantees” in addition but that was BS marketing speak. Any “guarantee” that has contingencies isn’t a guarantee, it’s just a regular contract.
That is very simplistic thinking. If I offered you ten dollars right now, or one hundred dollars in one year if you dont die (and knowing you could buy insurance that would pay you $50 if you did), you'd be an idiot taking the guaranteed money. Yes, Bell got more "guarateed" money, but he also cost himself $14.5 million dollars.

Almost everything I've read has concluded Bell made a huge financial mistake by skipping a years salary to sign a similar deal that he would have gotten (except more "guaranteed"). YMMV.

Last edited by Hamlet; 08-17-2019 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:48 AM
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God forbid I defend the Steelers (good owners, horrible fans), but most everything I read was that the Steeler guaranteed $33 million. That is very simplistic thinking. If I offered you ten dollars right now, or one hundred dollars in one year if you dont die (and knowing you could buy insurance that would pay you $50 if you did), you'd be an idiot taking the guaranteed money. Yes, Bell got more "guarateed" money, but he also cost himself $14.5 million dollars.

Almost everything I've read has concluded Bell made a huge financial mistake by skipping a years salary to sign a similar deal that he would have gotten (except more "guaranteed"). YMMV.
Only if by "die", you mean, "break a leg", "lose a step", "get worked into the ground and fall apart", or "get cut to save a buck". I can come up with five different scenarios that involve Bell getting hosed by that contract, and none of them ridiculously implausible in the NFL.


The Steelers' contract offered $20.5m in actual guarantees. If it's not guaranteed at the signing of the contract, it's not guaranteed, no matter how you try to word it. Bell gets injured in that first year, and the Steelers decide to cut him? Bell only makes $20.5 million.

Add $20.5m to the franchise tag of $14.5m, and you get the $35m he got guaranteed from New York. And he got a year off out of the deal. An NFL contract is only worth the actual guaranteed money - everything else is fluff.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:26 AM
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An NFL contract is only worth the actual guaranteed money - everything else is fluff.
And I think that statement is both factually inaccurate, and a poor way to judge financial situations.
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:05 PM
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And I think that statement is both factually inaccurate, and a poor way to judge financial situations.
This article is a cautionary tale about counting on money that’s not guaranteed.
https://deadspin.com/why-only-the-nf...cts-1797020799

Yes, it’s not literally true that only guarantees matter. It’s not like you will never be paid more than that. You very well may be. But it’s also true that most of the time, what matters more is what’s guaranteed.

It’s going to be situational. A youngish franchise quarterback with a winning record will most likely see most if not all of the money in his contract. That’s not a volatile position or a risky situation. NFL rules go out of their way to protect QBs and a good QB is essential to any team being successful, and are very difficult to find.

Le’Veon Bell is a running back in his late 20s. Most RBs are good up until they hit 29/30, when they typically hit a wall, or at least teams are nervous about retaining them. It’s a very physical position that wears down a person’s body. Injuries are common even among the most durable players. He might have a couple of years where he’s a premiere player but after that it’s iffy. He’s in a position where he better not expect to see most of the non-guaranteed cash in a five year contract. Odds are that he won’t get all of it.

And you also have to factor in that the contract dispute with the Steelers doesn’t make that situation a stable one. If they sign him and he doesn’t meet their expectations they’re less likely to cut him some slack and more likely to just cut him. He’d be a problem child that’s just no longer worth it. I think he made a smarter long-term financial decision. I don’t like the way he did it, personally, but I think he came out better in the end.

Last edited by Atamasama; 08-18-2019 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:46 PM
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I think he made a smarter long-term financial decision. I don’t like the way he did it, personally, but I think he came out better in the end.
We dont know the exact amounts, but from what has been reported, the Steelers offered him a 5 year, $70 million dollar deal, with $33 million payable in the first two years, and $20.5 million guaranteed. He signed a contract with the Jets with a year less, a lower yearly salary, and less money in the first two years, and passed on $14.5 million to hold out. All to get an additional $4.5 million guaranteed. The only way that would work put in his favor is if he got injured in his first year, and the Steelers cut him right away. To me, that doesnt sound like coming out better.

Last edited by Hamlet; 08-18-2019 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:46 PM
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We dont know the exact amounts, but from what has been reported, the Steelers offered him a 5 year, $70 million dollar deal, with $33 million payable in the first two years, and $20.5 million guaranteed. He signed a contract with the Jets with a year less, a lower yearly salary, and less money in the first two years, and passed on $14.5 million to hold out. All to get an additional $4.5 million guaranteed. The only way that would work put in his favor is if he got injured in his first year, and the Steelers cut him right away. To me, that doesnt sound like coming out better.
It’s still only $10 million the first year. That’s all they offered as an up-front guarantee.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/03/lev...happy-contract

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/...ets-guaranteed

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...lers-in-summer

He would only make more than $10 million if he didn’t get hurt or cut that first year and that’s far from a given for a RB getting close to 30.

Your $20.5 million figure is just wrong. The $33 million in “guarantees” is weasel speak. (Not weasel words from you, from the Steelers/their PR group.)

Last edited by Atamasama; 08-18-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:03 PM
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And Antonio Brown (remember him? check the thread title) missed practice again today. The GM told him through the media "it’s time for him to be all in or all out"
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:12 PM
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Double down, Anty Brown.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:28 PM
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It’s still only $10 million the first year. That’s all they offered as an up-front guarantee.
We can play the dueling cites game if you wish:

"According to CBS Sports NFL Insider Jason La Canfora, the Steelers deal would have paid Bell $20.5 million guaranteed up front in Year 1. According to Pro Football Talk, that money would have been paid through a $10 million signing bonus, a $10 million roster bonus plus his base salary." CBS Sports

"Pittsburgh reportedly were offering Bell a $10 million signing bonus and ALSO a $10 million roster bonus in 2018, according to Florio. When added to the minimum base salary they could have paid him as per league rules, Bell would have been guaranteed $20.79 million in year one alone." Mike Florio

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He would only make more than $10 million if he didn’t get hurt or cut that first year and that’s far from a given for a RB getting close to 30.
I love the continued attempts to age LeVeon up. He's 27 years old and while that is, I suppose, "close to thirty", it's also closer to 25. And he would have been 25 if he signed with the Steelers originally, which would have given him another year of prime earning rather than him sitting out to the tune of $14.5 million.

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Your $20.5 million figure is just wrong.
No it's not. Using all other RB contracts as a baseline, the reality is $20.5 guaranteed in the first year is much, much, much closer to reality than $10 million. And as my cites above show, the guaranteed money was for both the $10 million signing bonus you cite to, AND the $10.5 million guaranteed roster bonus.
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The $33 million in “guarantees” is weasel speak. (Not weasel words from you, from the Steelers/their PR group.)
And here, in reality, teams don't cut guys they trust enough to give a 5 year, $70 million dollar contract to after the first year of the contract. There is very little doubt in my mind that, unless the injury was career ending, the Steelers wouldn't cut him for being injured in the first year of a 5 year contract. I can think of no examples of a team making a guy one of the highest paid players at his position, and then cutting him after a year. And, even then, they just might keep him on the roster to help pay his medical bills ala Shazier.

You're absolutely right, if Bell suffers a career ending injury in the first year of his contract, he made the right decision to sign with the Jets rather than the Steelers. Other than that, he sacrificed money to get guaranteed money. It is, of course, his decision, and I support his ability to get as much money as he can. But I think you really have to ignore history and common sense to conclude a guy who will make less during the time it is highly unlikely he'll be cut, will make less in yearly salary, and skipped out on $14.5 million is better off.

Last edited by Hamlet; 08-18-2019 at 10:30 PM.
  #41  
Old 08-18-2019, 10:37 PM
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Could you folks PLEASE take the talk about a DIFFERENT FUCKING PLAYER who played for a DIFFERENT FUCKING TEAM and had a DIFFERENT FUCKING ISSUE to another thread?
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Could you folks PLEASE take the talk about a DIFFERENT FUCKING PLAYER who played for a DIFFERENT FUCKING TEAM and had a DIFFERENT FUCKING ISSUE to another thread?
I don’t know why this is worthy of that kind of reaction. They both left the same team under similar ignominious circumstances at the same time. They are inextricably linked to each other.
  #43  
Old 08-19-2019, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
We dont know the exact amounts, but from what has been reported, the Steelers offered him a 5 year, $70 million dollar deal, with $33 million payable in the first two years, and $20.5 million guaranteed. He signed a contract with the Jets with a year less, a lower yearly salary, and less money in the first two years, and passed on $14.5 million to hold out. All to get an additional $4.5 million guaranteed. The only way that would work put in his favor is if he got injured in his first year, and the Steelers cut him right away. To me, that doesnt sound like coming out better.
Yet again, it's $35m guaranteed from New York. He got the same amount of money and a year off. Tell me again how he's come out worse.
  #44  
Old 08-19-2019, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
Tell me again how he's come out worse.
Well, he's playing for the Jets now, for one.
  #45  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:14 AM
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Yet again, it's $35m guaranteed from New York. He got the same amount of money and a year off. Tell me again how he's come out worse.
I love this technique:

Chi: He got more guaranteed money!

Me: Yes, he did but thats not the only measure of whether he is better off.

Chi: But he got more guaranteed money!

Me: Yes, but he will make less per year, for fewer years, and with only a slight uptick in guaranteed.

Chi: But he got more guaranteed money!

Me: Yes, but that only matters if he suffers a career ending injury in year one of his contract and they cut him. Which, for an elite player at his position, rarely, if ever, happens.

Chi: But he got more guaranteed money!

Me: *sigh*
  #46  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:14 AM
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[Moderating]

Zakalwe, if you think that a thread has gotten hijacked, you have a number of options. You can report the thread. You can politely ask other folks to get back on the topic. You can ignore the hijack and just add more discussion about the original topic (this is probably the most effective option). You seem to be getting way too heated for any of that. You probably ought to take a step back from this thread, and only come back once you've calmed down.
  #47  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:10 AM
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My WAG regarding Antonio:

I suspect the foot issue is worse than we really know (in terms of how long it will take him to recover), and it's embarrassing and AB can't control it. The complaint about the helmet is something he can control (to a certain extent) so he's going with that. Star players not playing pre-season games is one thing (even common), but he's not even practicing with the team. I mean, why not fight your helmet fight, while practicing with an approved helmet that you hate.... unless maybe your feet are still fucked.
  #48  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Clawdio View Post
My WAG regarding Antonio:

I suspect the foot issue is worse than we really know (in terms of how long it will take him to recover), and it's embarrassing and AB can't control it. The complaint about the helmet is something he can control (to a certain extent) so he's going with that. Star players not playing pre-season games is one thing (even common), but he's not even practicing with the team. I mean, why not fight your helmet fight, while practicing with an approved helmet that you hate.... unless maybe your feet are still fucked.
Don't buy it. AB is showing his injured feet on Hard Knocks. He's also shown running and cutting on them in limited time. He's not healed yet, that's for sure, but I don't think there's some big conspiracy to obscure a long term issue.

The helmet thing is just him being a prima donna and rebelling. Breaking in a new helmet is annoying, and if he's one of those superstitious/OCD types who needs his routine it's probably especially distracting. Mayock and Gruden were very tolerant on the foot injury, they are clearly fed up with the helmet thing. I see no way that blowing up the helmet issue is a net gain for him.
  #49  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Omniscient View Post
Don't buy it. AB is showing his injured feet on Hard Knocks. He's also shown running and cutting on them in limited time. He's not healed yet, that's for sure, but I don't think there's some big conspiracy to obscure a long term issue.

The helmet thing is just him being a prima donna and rebelling. Breaking in a new helmet is annoying, and if he's one of those superstitious/OCD types who needs his routine it's probably especially distracting. Mayock and Gruden were very tolerant on the foot injury, they are clearly fed up with the helmet thing. I see no way that blowing up the helmet issue is a net gain for him.
While I agree Brown is a prima donna, here's a really good article from Nate Jackson (TE-Broncos) about how big of a deal changing helmets is:

https://deadspin.com/why-antonio-bro...met-1837234576
  #50  
Old 08-19-2019, 11:29 AM
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Question about these helmets he's trying to find:

Years ago i took a 2 week motorcycle safety course where (if we passed) we got our motorcycle drivers licence at the end of the 2 weeks. One thing they preached was never set your helmet on the seat of your bike, because if it fell from that height and hit the ground it was basically useless (to the point where they wouldn't even let us ride in the class if they saw us drop our helmet).

Are modern football helmets the same? Are they rendered unsafe after a certain amount of hits/games?
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