reptiles

[ratty]

Does anyone here love reptiles and/or have reptile pets? I have MANY pets, and many of them are reptiles. I get a lot of flak for this from people who are either afraid of reptiles (understandable) or who feel reptiles are evil creatures that should be exterminated. (seriously- these people frighten me) I would love to discuss with other people their own reptile experiences, good or bad, and any theories about why many people fear and loathe my scaly friends.

[Bedrosian Bixby]

Long-time snake owner, here. I currently care for a 4 ft. Ball Python, though in the past I've had Boas, Reticulated Pythons and a Burmese. The Ball Python is less temperamental than other constricters I have handled. My neices and nephews actualy dig the little guy.

Having two cats makes it hard to have other 4-legged creatures around the house, but over the years I've had a few. I raised an Iguana from infancy to about 4 feet in length before it mysteriously went off to that great vegitable patch in the sky. After highschool, I worked part-time in a pet store. I had access to critters that most don't get a chance to see. Over the years, I've raised Savannah and Nile Monitors, various Chameleons and once a Caymon Crocidile (never again. nasty son of a bitch)

I think there are very obvious reasons why people don't like snakes. Biblical stigmas, the fact that they move in ways that seem unnatural to us, the cold lifeless look in their eyes and the reputation they have for being deadly all factor in our unreasonable fear of snakes. (poisonous snakes make up only 10% of the total snake population and you'ld be hard pressed to find a constrictor large enough to kill a man. Unless you live in an area that dangerous snakes are a common ocurrence,i.e. Australia, certain parts of South America, South Central Asia, there isn't much to worry about.)

Anyway, it's good to see a fellow herp fan on the boards.

[Fretful Porpentine]

I like reptiles, but I don't own any (no pets allowed in my apartment complex, and anyway, my roommate would NOT be happy). I had turtles and an anole for a while as a kid, though, and I used to date a guy who had a couple of iguanas, which was neat. What really surprised me was that they had different personalities, the same way dogs and cats do.

Snakes are also cool. There's just something incredibly sexy about the way they move, and their patterns are gorgeous.

[zoogirl]

Well, well, I seem to have found my thread!
Right now all I have is two common garters and a northwestern and an alligator lizard. I have had iguanas, anoles, a tokay gecko (bit like a little meatgrinder, more on this in a bit), house gecko,and a rainbow skink. I have also had a rough green snake. I have had several red eared sliders too.
I work at a small zoo in this area, and while I am mostly in the mammal room, I see quite a bit of the reptiles too. We have an alligator and a caiman, nile and savanah monitors, and two large iguanas, besides a large number of smaller lizards. Our snakes include boas, pythons, mangrove snakes, kings, corns, milksnakes, hognoses, and rattlesnakes, We also have a copperhead. We breed snakes as well. We have the biggest alligator snapping turtle in Canada, common snappers, sliders, box turtles, spurthighed tortises, an afghan tortise, and softshelled turtles. I also look after our frogs and toads, tarantulas (and one of my own) scorpians and insects.

Now for the tokay story.
We used to live in a house that had two suites upstairs. I had my gecko, Worf (big, ugly, mean and a kling-on!) in a sixty gallon tank, set up just by the connecting door. One day I needed to take him out, so I reached in to grab him. Well, he grabbed me first, by the thumb! Man, those little miseries can bite! I had my head pretty well in the tank, which was on a fairly high stand, and the edge of the wire lid was across my neck. Of course our cats just had to see what all the fuss was about, so one of them jumped on the tank top, which pushed the rough wire edge right into my neck, effectively pinning me. The other cat then decided to join the fun. No, he didn't jump up too. He decided he'd rather climb. Unfortunately, the only thing around was my leg! So, here I am, a gecko hanging off my thumb, a cat hanging off my leg, head first in the tank and screaming like a banshee! The connecting door opens, and our neighbor, Doug, pokes his head in. He takes one look, says "Oh, it's only you. I thought someone was being murdered!" and closes the door! I finally got all the critters pried off by myself, but boy was I ticked at Doug! Ah, well, the joys of pet ownership!

I still have a large number of pets. Besides the reps, I raise fancy mice, field mice, and I have a deermouse. I have a wild rat and a domestic one too. I've got rabbits, a ferret, budgies, a hedgehog, stickbugs, a giant cockroach-well, the list is always changing. Usually, its growing!
As you can see, I've really earned my name!

[Darwin's Finch]

Back when I was a poor college student attending UC Berzerkeley, a couple friends and I visited a reptile shop. They had, for sale, three rough-necked monitors, going for roughly $1,500 each. A few weeks later, we returned, and they were still selling them...for $1,000 for the lot, including the cage (a rather large one, at that)! Had I not been a poor college student, I would have most definitely bought them.

When I get my own place, I would love to be able to pick up a monitor or two.

As for why people fear reptiles, I'd say it's because they're different from us. They aren't cute and furry, and they come in all sorts of weird shapes and sizes. And their dinosaurian relatives used to eat our mammalian relatives (of course, today's archosaurs still eat our relatives), so they may be a grudge thing going on.

[Zenster]

I think that snakes and spiders really need to get a better PR firm behind them. When you look at what they eat (rodents and insects that can make our lives miserable), and then compare that to the extremely low percentage of them that are poisonous or hostile, they really come out as very beneficial to humans. Instead, they're squashed, poisoned and summarily executed on a routine basis. This is bogus and needs to be remedied. Sadly, ignorance will continue to rule in this department of dubious villification.

Zenster (who has owned a 6' boa, lizards and snakes for most of his life)

[beegirl13]

I love animals of all kinds, and just got into reptiles. I had anoles before that I caught at my aunt's house in Mississippi but sent them back with her when I started to feel sorry for them in their little cage. Now I have a turtle _{shhh..he's not supposed to be in the dorm} named Ichabod. After he had an abcess on his face and I couldn't find a vet for him (don't worry, he's OK now), I decided that I might specialize in exotics when I finally do get to be a vet. I'd like more turtles and an iguana someday, and maybe some snakes but I don't think I could feed them rodents so they'd have to be small.

[alice_in_wonderland]

I have a swhack of pets...

Right now the only reptile is a very beguiling Leopard Gecko name Ludwig von Geckovin.

I used to have a Cuban Knight Anole named Fidel Castro, but he died.

I also used to have an albino Pac-Man Frog - he was bright banana yellow and orange orange, so of course he was named Herb, a la Herb Tarlic. Sadly, he died too. (He was about 10 years old.)

Previous to that I had a Red Eared Slider (turtle) named Rico Suave - he lived to be about 15 yrs.

Currently, apart from Ludwig, I also have 2 bunnies (Bart & Benny), a parakeet (Sammy), a breeding pair of sevrums (Ralph and Fredia) along with a bunch of other as yet unnamed fish, including 2 10" pl*cos.

Right now that's it.

[zoogirl]

Originally posted by beegirl13
I'd like more turtles and an iguana someday, and maybe some snakes but I don't think I could feed them rodents so they'd have to be small.

Hey bee, can I recommend garter snakes? Not only do they have the advantage of being free for the taking in any field, some of them are really pretty. One of our local types has a black background with three bright yellow stripes and a double row of reddish orange dots down their sides. The best things about garters,( besides the price !), is their small size and the fact that they will live quite happily on dewworms or goldfish. The more northern species don't need high tempertures either and can be kept in a tank without a hotrock, although they do better with one, as the direct heat helps them digest their food. They don't need a heatlamp, though and in fact do better if kept on the cool side. They like a water dish big enough to curl up in, and one big enough to swim would be much appreciated. I keep mine in a tank with branches and some of them seem to like climbing, which surprised me since they're a grass snake. If you're going to hunt your own, look for a combination of long grass and water. They like blackberry bushes too. They can be surpisingly urban.
One of my best spots is beside a very busy major street.
Good Luck!

Zenster, hi! How's the pup?

[Zenster]

zoogirl, you continue to impress me. Singlehandedly, you maintain a substantial genetic ark on your own dime. This alone deserves more praise than I have time for or this board has room to fit. So I'll just say that the mutt is doing extremely well (he got some thumps for whizzing in the basement today) and I simply adore the depth of reporting you provide about garter snakes.

Please detail exactly how you are supposed to feed a garter snake goldfish. I was unaware (stop the presses!) that a land snake might fish. What do you do? Lob the flipping about and gasping piscine treat into the terrarium and hope the herp doesn't request a squeeze of lemon or do you have to have an amphibious environment in order to provide them sushi-on-the-hoof? Speaking of which, it is now time for me to dive on my parcel of sushi I bought for din-dins this evening.

Enquiring minds want to know.

[zoogirl]

Zenster, thanks. Glad to hear the pup is well enough to get into trouble! He must be on the mend!
About the sushi a la herp, as I said garters love water and ought to have a dish at least big enough to get into. I just put the fish in the dish. One of the tanks we had at the zoo had a glass partition so that one end held water and the rest was done like a streambank. The water part had a pump and filter and the fish lived in there quite well, until the snake decided it was dinnertime!

[Tokiwoki]

I've had turtles as long as I can remember. I have also had a ball python for the last 7 or 8 years. I would like to think that I have split custody of a banded king snake that my ex-boyfriend and I had. Reptiles are cool pets, but nothing beats my puppy dog.

[beegirl13]

Thanks for the info, zoogirl. That will be something to consider when I get my own place where animals that breathe air aren't against the rules, and I can finally have as many animals as my budget will allow. I know I can handle the fish-feeding. Ichy (who is a Southern Painted Turtle, complete with racing stripe, BTW) gets guppies as treats every once in awhile.

[Zenster]

Originally posted by zoogirl
Zenster, thanks. Glad to hear the pup is well enough to get into trouble! He must be on the mend!
About the sushi a la herp, as I said garters love water and ought to have a dish at least big enough to get into. I just put the fish in the dish. One of the tanks we had at the zoo had a glass partition so that one end held water and the rest was done like a streambank. The water part had a pump and filter and the fish lived in there quite well, until the snake decided it was dinnertime!

Auuuughhhh!

This is one of the top secret designs I have for my Tank of the Future ®. It too would have both water and soil sections. So, what you're telling me is that if I include a garter snake in the terrarium portion, I will have an even more frequent opportunity to exchange fish specimens in the aquatic sector. Sounds like fun.

[Dragon Shadow]

i've always liked reptiles, epesailly froags, lizards and turtles. it all started back in elementary when i was litterally horse crazy and dog crazy, but my parents wouldn't let me keep anything as big as a dog (even though i could have hamsters and birds). i've become used to only having small pets and since then, and it brought me closer to reptiles.

[Primaflora]

We've got a blue tongue lizard living downstairs. He gave me one hell of a shock yesterday emerging from the parsley in the garden. It's prime snake season here and the front end of a blue tongue looks incredibly like a snake when you don't expect to see it.

He's hung around for two days now. Found him downstairs eating from the cats's leftovers and then he cruised the garden eating snails. Primafloret the Elder has decided he is an incredibly gifted blue tongue but I'm not sure on what grounds.

[zoogirl]

Hey, PrimaFlora, is he a fairly large lizard, kind of light brown? Looks like a small monitor, but with legs that are more like a skink's? (Very small for the size of the lizard.) We have a blue-tongued at work. I would imagine it's the same. He's one of our better tempered animals, very laid back. If he's taking out the snails, you should encourage him to stay awhile!

[Tamerlane]

I love reptiles ( and amphibians ). Herpetolgy was definitely my "pet field" in college, though I really was more a generalist then anything else. But as a vertebrate physiology professor of mine once said with amused exasperation - "Once a snake-chaser, always a snake-chaser" .

At my height I had 13 snakes, several lizards, a salamander or two, and a couple of frogs. No turtles, though ( too much hassle ). Have my share of stories, including the "How I got bit in the eyeball by a snake" story ( shocking just how vascularized the eyelid is ) and the de rigeur "the broken freezer full of rotting mice" story ( everyone has one of those - but mine is particularly repulsive ).

The roomie, back when he was a teenager ( he's 50 now ), had ( along with his older brother ) probably one of the largest collections of exotic herps in southern Caliornia, including such charming pets as White-Lipped Cobras and Puff Adders. This was back before the government started ( quite rightly ) cracking down on such things. They basically got all of their animals for free from the sleazy local dealers, who willingly unloaded their sick and injured imports ( all wild-caught back then ) onto these two kids, who'd then attempt to nurse them back to health.

At any rate, I'm no longer a "pet person" in that sense, anymore. Just have an aging cat now. But I still love finding them while outdoors.

I'd just like too add a couple of caveats to Zoogirl's comments about Garter Snakes. They are good pets, but they have a couple of minor drawbacks folks should be aware of.

Mostly, they stink . First off, when they're still a little wild ( or if you get the rare individual that doesn't ever acclimate to being handled ) they will smear a discharge from their anal glands on you, that is both persistent and heady. Doesn't particularly bother me, even brings back fond memories, but then I'm one of those freaks that actually likes the odor of skunks ( from a distance ). Most people I know, can't stand pissed-off Garter Snake stink.

Second, there is a trade-off involved with keeping fish-eating snakes. It is neat to watch, and easy to acquire and deliver the "food". But the excreta tends to be rather more watery and odoriferous compared to that of mouse-eating snakes. It can get smeared all over the place very quickly. And because piscivores eat more frequent, smaller meals than the mice-eaters, the net result is you have to clean up after them a lot more often. If that doesn't bother you, then no problemo .

A word about collecting pets. In general it doesn't bother me ( not that anyone asked for my permission ) and I've done it myself. But you should get a good field guide, check state and federal regulations ( for instance in CA you need a CA fishing license ), and be very aware of what you are collecting. Some critters should not be touched. It is both illegal and ethically wrong to mess with a number of threatened critters like San Francisco Garter Snakes and California Mountain Kingsnakes ( if the latter isn't illegal to touch, it should be - I know for a fact the former is ). Find out what is both dirt common and would make a decent pet before collecting it. And set up a proper habitat in advance. For instance there are three or four species of Garter Snakes ( Thamnophis sirtalis, T. elegans and/or T. atratus, and T. couchii ) in the Ca Bay Area and five or more subspecies. Of those subspecies, two are threatened/endangered and quite illegal to harass, one is less common but not particularly threatened, and two are common as dirt, including the gorgeous California Red-sided Garter Snake ( Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis ).

In general, I advocate buying captive-bred animals from a reputable breeder. Many of the Rat Snakes ( including the Corn Snake ) and Kingsnakes make fine pets .

Zenster and Bay Area folk in general: There are number of good places to see this phenomena - But if you are in the UC Botanical Gardens in the Berkely Hills on a warm spring day and the little Japanese pond back behind the succulent section is in commision, you might try sitting down there for a bit. If you're lucky you might see Pacific Coast Aquatic Garter Snakes ( Thamnophis atratus ) come down to the pond to hunt. Nothing quite as primal as watching a little snake head rise up out of the duckweed, with a flopping minnow in its mouth .

- Tamerlane

[(your name here)]

Wow, I never thst this many herpers would be here. Alright. I myself have only 2 reptile, a leopard gecko and a White's Tree Frog. Thats all I can afford to take on. Money is hard to come by at 14. And so is space. But, I do enjoy my good friends snake collection, which 6 as we speak.

[bernse]

Used to have a Rock Python. He was a gorgeous snake. He was a year or so old and got to about 5ft.I have no idea why he died. He ate very well and was real active.

He could sure be a mean SOB though.

[heresiarch]

A roommate and I jointly owned a Burmese python which we named Shai-Hulud. He was about 7 feet long when we got him and a little under 10 feet long when I had to find a new home for him. I got orders to go overseas. He had a great, docile disposition. He only went aggro when he smelled a rodent. When he was in hunt mode, he would strike at anything that moved.

He was also a master escape artist.

Snakes are beautiful and I like the way they move. I think they're graceful (most of the time.) But their brain isn't like a mammal's. I can imagine that I know what dogs and cats are thinking and feeling. Herps are different - more primitive.

[Zenster]

Originally posted by Tamerlane
Zenster and Bay Area folk in general: There are number of good places to see this phenomena - But if you are in the UC Botanical Gardens in the Berkely Hills on a warm spring day and the little Japanese pond back behind the succulent section is in commision, you might try sitting down there for a bit. If you're lucky you might see Pacific Coast Aquatic Garter Snakes ( Thamnophis atratus ) come down to the pond to hunt. Nothing quite as primal as watching a little snake head rise up out of the duckweed, with a flopping minnow in its mouth .

- Tamerlane [/b]

I've been there many times, Tamerlane. Strawberry Canyon is one of my most favorite haunts. I suppose I'll have to be more patient the next time I visit. Thanks for the tip.

[zoogirl]

re Tamerlane's Post

Which I know I ought to quote, (but since it's really long, and with the pay-per-post controversy I'm more aware of taking up space) so I won't!
Yep, I should have mentioned that "Defensive Mechanism" thing, but since all of mine quit it after the first day or so, I just forgot! As far as the watery poop thing goes, I feed worms far more than fish so it hasn't been much of an issue. I use dry grass on the bottom of the cage, which absorbs quite well, and I just shovel out the whole thing regularly.
Tamerlane is completely correct about making sure your pet is a common species. Some areas do limit or require a licence for wild caught animals. Check it out first! When I had a more extensive collection myself, I used to get inspected by the SPCA periodically. They had a guy from Fish and Game check me out, and the one's I had were okay, fortunately!
Another thing to remember, there is no such thing as a cage that is too big. The snake needs, at MINIMUM, a cage long enough to stretch out full length. Garters are able to get up into a corner of the cage and push themselves up until only the last 2-3 inchs of the snake is still on the ground. A good lid is a must!

[jack@ss]

When I was 9 I caught my first pet snake, a 3-foot long common garter. We had a slough (think 5 acres covered in 2 feet of water) at the end of our street, so I fed him toadlets and tadpoles. My mom turned him loose while I was away at camp.

Not reptiles, but as an adult I have owned 2 scorpions that I kept in a terrarium in my barracks room and fed cockroaches. Unfortunately I was in the field when they had the mess hall sprayed and unwittingly fed them poisoned roaches.

I also owned 2 green iguanas for a couple years, they grew from 2-1/2 to over 3 feet long and were very healthy. I moved to Colorado in the winter and didn't think they would survive the move, so I sold them to the most reputable local pet store. That was before many people were successful captive breeding them, so they brought me $80.00 each.

Currently I have the back half of my back yard fenced off from the dogs and it is full of garter snakes. They keep the bugs down in my vegetable garden and I enjoy watching them. I had a small water feature last summer. It has an inch and a half lip on the inside and I put 2 large rocks in it with a third rock resting on top to serve as a grotto for my fish and a bathing platform for the wild birds. The garter snakes really enjoyed it, having some cool water and a buffet of goldfish, so I had to buy a couple dozen feeders every week. One day I came home from work to find a garter snake unable to get out over the lip of the pond. As I pulled it out of the water, my wife was picking a dead goldfish out of the pond. She offered it to the snake and to both our surprise he took it from her hand.

Well, that's my hand-feeding a wild snake story. Not exactly Crocodile Hunter stuff, but not bad for the 'burbs of Salt Lake City.

[filthy]

I'm a co-founder of a small conservation society and we do educational presentations in the elementary schools and libraries, and sometimes for the state F&G and police. My specality is venomous and I keep 16 specmens toward that end (although some five of them are for my own enjoyment and are never presented). Our biggest gig this year was for some 300 kids, sponsered by Ducks Unlimited.

I also do problem snake removal and re-location, reptile rescue and rehabilitation (the big save this year was a snapping turtle that some idiot had shot), and am licensed by the state, NC, for it.

I've got a couple of modest breeding programs going and next year, I'm expecting litters of Canebrake and Great Basin Rattlesnakes (C. h. atricadatus and C. v. lotosus).

Someone mentioned the hassle of feeding rodents. I buy mine frozen and vacumn packed from a place in TX called the Mouse Factory. They're shipped packed in dry ice. http://www.themousefactory.com/ will get you there. They do the dirty work. It's best to get together with other herpers and put in a big order so save on the shipping.

Delighted to see that I'm not alone!

f

[ratty]

Hello all! I'm so glad to hear from fellow herpers! Zoogirl, I know what you mean about tokays- I have one that will actually cross the tank just to bite. He will temporarily ignore food just to take a chunk out of my hand. However, he sings, and that makes up for his personality.

I just rescued a savannah moniotr from some degenerate fool who was feeding him canned dog food TWICE A DAY. He is morbidly obese. I have him on a strict regimen of two hoppers and seven crickets every ten days, plus "out" time where he is encouraged to walk and climb around. He has a wonderful temperament, and actually enjoys having his neck scratched. This brings the monitor total to two, as I have a 6-year-old water monitor. VERY friendly. I love monitors, but I would advise anyone looking to keep them to do A LOT of research, and make sure they have the time, money, and space to keep them. They are intelligent lizards that really benefit from interaction with their keepers, and it would be cruel to deprive them of that, not to mention that taming is a must, since an aggressive, 7-foot, 90 lb. monitor is like having Godzilla loose in your house.

Zenster- When you get your project going, let me know where I can buy a Tank of the Future- I want one! Great idea!

Filthy- tell us more about your conservation project. I agree; the more I learn about humans, the more I like rattlesnakes, too. (and all reptiles, for that matter)

[Wikkit]

Originally posted by Bedrosian Bixby
I think there are very obvious reasons why people don't like snakes. Biblical stigmas, the fact that they move in ways that seem unnatural to us, the cold lifeless look in their eyes and the reputation they have for being deadly all factor in our unreasonable fear of snakes.

Here's Douglas Adams' take on it, from Last Chance to See.

He's talking about Komodo Dragons, but it applies to other creatures.

"They are man eaters. That is not so bad in itself. Lions and tigers are man eaters, and though we may be intensely wary of them and treat them with respectful fear, we nevertheless have an instinctive admiration for them. We don't actually like to be eaten by them, but we don't resent the very idea. The reason, probably, is that we are mammals and so are they. There's a kind of unrecognized species prejudice at work: a lion is one of us but a lizard is not. And neither, for that matter, is a fish, which is why we have such an unholy terror of sharks."

[filthy]

Actually, it's just four and sometimes five of us, each with our own speciality. We all do wildlife rehab and sort'a got together and began presenting. We've been doing it for about 3 years, now. Most of the animals we take into the schools are unreleasable rehabs. My beautiful female Canebrake Rattler came to me with a fractured skull and after 4 years, still can't eat as large a rat as she should. A sad story behind this snake. She was so badly injured as well as malnourished, I nearly euthanized her, the dark side of what I do. She's the one that will have the 'blessed event' next year, so taking the chance was the right thing to do.

Another of us is a raptor expert and keeps several that can no longer fly, including a kestrel that was hit by a car and had to have a wing amputated. I kept this bird for a short while and was sad to part with it.

We also have some small mammals, flying squirrls, a ground hog, a prairie dog, and so forth. Fortunatly, I only have the snakes to feed.

I rehabed an abused savannah last year and was tempted to keep it for a garbage can. He was a little sweetheart. But, I'm a little short of space and the people that wanted him gave him a great home. I've also done a nile monitor, a much diffrent lizard all together.

If you're going to keep monitors, especally the smaller species, start up a colony of Madagascar cockroaches. They're nutritious, the lizards'll love 'em, and they're kind'a fun as well.

This is our slow time of year and we have nothing listed. That will change after the new year.

I think that all of us should get into education to at least some degree. Only that way will we be able to save our wildlife.

luck,

f

PS: I too, have been whacked by a Tokay, my favorite gecko. He used to sing all night long.

[Odesio]

Originally posted by ratty
Does anyone here love reptiles and/or have reptile pets? I have MANY pets, and many of them are reptiles. I get a lot of flak for this from people who are either afraid of reptiles (understandable) or who feel reptiles are evil creatures that should be exterminated. (seriously- these people frighten me) I would love to discuss with other people their own reptile experiences, good or bad, and any theories about why many people fear and loathe my scaly friends.

I'm not afriad of reptiles nor do I think they are evil. But I can't understand why anyone would want them for a pet. They aren't cuddly, they don't care about you, and after a short while the novelty seems to wear off. I used to feed my friend's Iguana when he was out of town and I couldn't figure out what he saw in his pet. On the other hand I think birds make even worse pets then reptiles. At least reptiles don't make all that noise.

Marc

[ratty]

Wikkit- thanks for the paragraph. I agree with what Douglas Adams is saying although this "one of us" business is somewhat confusing. I know people instinctively "like" mammals more than reptiles, being that humans are mammals, but I hardly think we empathize with ANY other animals, at least not that much. What gets me are these people who feel predatory animals are all bad. (Seriously- I have met people so deeply out-of-touch they think grizzly bears should be stopped so that all the elk can live in peace.) Also, I have seen people on TV who feel garter snakes are somehow a threat to human civilization, yet line up 6-deep to try and take pictures of their children with wild bison at Yellowstone.

Filthy- thanks for the info. It sounds like you guys really have it together. I have a lot of respect and admiration for people doing conservation work. I'm currently working with a licensed wildlife rehabber in my area with a view to getting my own license, and this is hard work. Good luck and success to you. Regarding hissing cockroaches, the tokay loves 'em, but the monitors refuse to eat them. In fact, my savannah seems apprehensive of them, 'though he'll scarf up crickets.

[heresiarch]

Originally posted by ratty
Zenster- When you get your project going, let me know where I can buy a Tank of the Future- I want one! Great idea!

Ditto that! I'd like to have a little ecosystem going on. Not a completely closed one, but a combination of fish and some herps, aquatic plants, etc. Would snakes and turtles cohabit peacefully, if they were of similar size? What about turtles and lizards?

How big would the Tank of the Future need to be to maintain a plant -> insect -> fish -> herp food chain, if I was willing to step in and stock the insects and fish occasionally?

[Tamerlane]

Originally posted by MGibson
I'm not afriad of reptiles nor do I think they are evil. But I can't understand why anyone would want them for a pet. They aren't cuddly, they don't care about you, and after a short while the novelty seems to wear off. I used to feed my friend's Iguana when he was out of town and I couldn't figure out what he saw in his pet.

Same reason folks like fish - They're often pretty ( or at least interesting-looking ) and can be fascinating to just watch, even when they're not doing much. And believe it or not, some are cuddly after a fashion ( but not many, to be sure.

But each to their own, of course. I do prefer my affectionate ( if whiny ) cat to any herp I've ever had.

On the other hand I think birds make even worse pets then reptiles. At least reptiles don't make all that noise.

I hear you. I love parrots, but can't take the occasional ( and inevitable ) screeches. I had a friend with an African Grey Parrot, an excitable Cocker Spaniel, and two cockatiels. When the dog started barking, the cockatiels started screeching, and the parrot started imitating all of them ( plus his owner scolding the others ) at full, ear-splitting volume, it was like armageddon. Also they're usually a lot of work to maintain []and[/i] entertain.

But these too, can be cuddly, affectionate, social pets ( the various psittascines are social, flock animals after all and the larger ones often form very long-standing social bonds in the wild that will transfer to a human owner ). And they can be relatively smart and diverting - Certainly much more clever than any herp. They also have the advantage over most pets of loooong life-spans ( again, we're talking large parrots here ).

- Tamerlane

[filthy]

When someone speaks of a 'pet' snake, or reptile of any kind, I shudder. There in no such thing as a pet herp. Treat one as a pet, and you will most likely get bitten or have the animal escape (in my case, either is very bad news).

With herps, you must appreciate the animal for what it s, not for what it can do for you. As mentioned above by Tamerlane, it's a lot like keeping tropical fish, particulary hot snakes or gilas; you don't take them out and play with them.

A display I want to build someday will take up the entire corner of a room. It will have water trickling down over rocks festooned with great beards of algae. there will be all natural plantings and perhaps even orchids on the walls. In the bottom will be a filtered pool with a population of colorful fish. In a dry corner there will be a grotto wherein will lurk one of the most sinister Cottonmouths in the world ( a snake I already have. Can't present him any more due to his habit of going berserk). It will be climate controled, of course.

What's not to love?

f

[zoogirl]

Originally posted by Tamerlane
I love parrots, but can't take the occasional ( and inevitable ) screeches. I had a friend with an African Grey Parrot, an excitable Cocker Spaniel, and two cockatiels. When the dog started barking, the cockatiels started screeching, and the parrot started imitating all of them ( plus his owner scolding the others ) at full, ear-splitting volume, it was like armageddon. Also they're usually a lot of work to maintain []and[/i] entertain.
- Tamerlane [/b]

Oh man, you should hear it at work sometimes! We have two cockatoo's, an African Grey, a crow, a pigeon and a finch, all in the same room! We had a cockatiel until last week, but she just passed away.
I think most of them are multi-lingual! The whole lot talk, and several have now learned to speak crow! The parrot meows, loudly, and someone, I'm not sure who, imitates the door opening. They "ping" like the microwave, too! Talk about pandemonium! All I have is a pair of budgies and it's almost quiet around here! ( Well, except for the dog, and scratching, scrambling rodents, and hissing hedgehog, and that chittering sound the ferret makes, and degu fights, not to mention the kids...oh, never mind!) At least the herps are quiet!