Japanese Sub in Gulf of Mexico

[Daoloth]

The recent thread titled "Nazis Invade America" reminded me of an old story I remember from trips to Galveston. While driving along the Sea Wall my dad would tell me about a s Japanese submarine from World War II that had run aground out past the third sandbar from the beach head (about 3/4 mile). He claimed that it's visible during very low tides, and that the crew had escaped and never been found.

Sounds like an urban legend to me, but what's the Straight Dope?

[BobT]

A Japanese sub in the Gulf of Mexico sounds like the crew must have taken an awfully long ride to accomplish very little.

Especially since the Germans were already in the Gulf of Mexico.

Presumably a Japanese sub would have had to have sailed from the Pacific into the Indian Ocean, down around the Cape of Good Hope, then crossed through the Atlantic and then started its patrol of the Gulf of Mexico.

That's a lot of work for very little payoff once it got there.

Wouldn't it have been more productive for the Japanese sub to just sail straight across the Pacific where it could attend to Japan's strategic needs?

[sqweels]

There have been a lot of shows about WWII subs on the History Channel lately, including some with accounts of U-boat attacks near Galveston. You can be sure that if that if there were any visible wrecks just offshore, they would show it.

It's a UL.

['Uigi]

I'll check my database at work tomorrow and get back with a list of vessels for that time frame. If you could give me a firm landmark (I'm not familiar with the area) and approximate maximum distance, it would help.

[Boyo Jim]

There were a FEW German submarines that travelled from Germany to Japan during the war. They travelled south along the West African coast, across the Indian Ocean, and up the coast along the Asian mainland. I don't recall hearing that Japanese submarines made any comparable trips, and if they did, they wouldn't be anywhere near the Gulf of Mexico.

It's conceivable a Japanese sub could have travelled to Germany, and set off on a war patrol from there for some murky Axis political reasons, but I've never heard of it.

But the reason I'm 100% certain this is an urban legend is, "the crew had escaped and never been found". COME ON!? 60-70 Japanese guys, almost NONE of whom would speak English, wade ashore in GALVESTON and get clean away?

[hudley]

I seriously doubt this story is true. My parents now live in Galveston, and I have been visiting the Island myself for all my life. I have a book on the history of Galveston at home, and I seem to recall that there is a legend that some German sailors had come ashore and went into town anonymously and enjoyed a night of drinking, but it is not considered to be a likely occurance. As to the sub on the 3rd bar, no way Jose. I have surfed all over the island and if it were true, I would know about it.

[ElvisL1ves]

Not to mention that, if there were an interesting wreck that close to shore and to the surface, it surely would have been salvaged quickly - like during the war.

[Ringo]

It won't give you a definitive answer tonight, but SENSUIKAN! aims to ultimately offer Tabular Records of Movement for all 174 WWII era IJN submarines. They are adding three per week, so in about a year it'll be complete. Keep the link.

I sincerely doubt the story for all the reasons given by previous posters.

[SenorBeef]

Originally posted by yojimboguy
There were a FEW German submarines that travelled from Germany to Japan during the war. They travelled south along the West African coast, across the Indian Ocean, and up the coast along the Asian mainland. I don't recall hearing that Japanese submarines made any comparable trips, and if they did, they wouldn't be anywhere near the Gulf of Mexico.

It's conceivable a Japanese sub could have travelled to Germany, and set off on a war patrol from there for some murky Axis political reasons, but I've never heard of it.

Actually, I believe a few Japanese transport subs went to Germany to deliver samples of various technologies Japan was working on later in the war, and the germans reciprocated.

[Ranchoth]

<<Actually, I believe a few Japanese transport subs went to Germany to deliver samples of various technologies Japan was working on later in the war, and the germans reciprocated.>>

Correct. One of the more notable ones was the I-52, which was sunk by the U.S. Navy in the south Atlantic. There's a national geographic article AND a TV special about it. Neat stuff.

And according to "Dirty Little Secrets of World War II" the Japanese did have a plan for attacking Texas with submarine-launched seaplanes, which would have flown over Mexico to the Gulf of Mexico from the Pacific, and from there, would have been based from German U-Boats in the area. Needless to say, the plan never got off the ground.



Ranchoth

[Milton De La Warre]

While some Japanese subs might have gone to Germany to get materials and information deemed vital, I do not believe any would have gone on a patrol in the Gulf of Mexico. The IJN did not have the number of subs the Germans did, and so would have sent them on combat patrols in waters of greater importance to them: the Pacific. There was no reason to go as far as Galveston to seek targets of interest to Japan, especially when it would have been far easier for the Germans to do this for them.

However, many people are unaware that there is a WW II U boat in the Potomac River (at the bottom, of course). It is just off of Indian Head MD Naval Ordnance Station. It had been surrendered at the end of the war, and was taken for study as it had an early sort of anechoic coating (which I think some of the Japanese submarines also experimented with). After study, they experimented with it at the NOS to see what it took to injure and sink a sub. It went down a few times and was raised for reuse. Eventually, they decided they were done with it and sucttled it down the river a little. Years later, someone recalled the existence of this submarine and they went looking for it. It was located, and if you don't want to go down into the muddy currents of the river you can find it (well, an "X" marking its spot) on the state maps they give out at the MD rest stops.

[hudley]

One way that this story might have gotten started is that there IS a Japanese sub in Galveston. However it is located at Seawolf Park on display.

[Spritle]

Originally posted by JCHeckler
However, many people are unaware that there is a WW II U boat in the Potomac River (at the bottom, of course). It is just off of Indian Head MD Naval Ordnance Station.

If you'r talking about the U-1105 Black Panther, it's currently 1 mile west of Piney Point, MD. (38deg 08" 10' N, 76deg 33" 10' W) I've dived on this boat. It sits in 90 feet of water with the top of the conning tower around 70 feet. In the best conditions you can see part of the deck and saddle tank. In worse conditions, these are silted over and only the conning tower is visible.

It's real dark down there, and very turbid and with the tide change there can be a strong current (not to mention the boat traffic on the surface). Visibility stinks almost all year. The best time to dive it is March/April. Since we've had a dry winter here, the vis might be better up into May.

For general info about the sub:

http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-5.htm

For excellent information regarding the testing and demolition of the "Prize of War":

http://www.co.saint-marys.md.us/recreate/u1105.htm

[ralph124c]

The Italian Navy had a few long-range subs at the beginning of WWII-a few of these were operating in the Carribean Sea , at the time of Pearl harbor. Perhaps one of these made it to the Texas coast. There seems to be very little documentation available about the Italian U-boats-to my knowledge, they did not coordinate their actions with their german allies. Why a sub would be operating in such distant waters is a mystery-there would be very few targets for them to attack.
This story brings to mind a story a few years back-a salvage company reported that it had founda U-Boat in Cape Copd bay. There were no corroborating records, and the sonar trace was found later to have been a sand bank.

[sailor]

>> (38deg 08" 10' N, 76deg 33" 10' W)

(Brief nitpicking hijack) Spritle I have never seen coordinates used like that. Generally I would use N/S/E/W in front (i.e. N38) also minutes: 08' and seconds: 10" but in nautical navigation you would not use seconds but tenths of minutes so 8'10" would be 8'2.

[Daoloth]

Originally posted by 'Uigi
I'll check my database at work tomorrow and get back with a list of vessels for that time frame. If you could give me a firm landmark (I'm not familiar with the area) and approximate maximum distance, it would help.

Allegedly it's located about 3/4 a mile out from a surf shop along the Sea Wall. There's probably a dozen of those but that's the only thing that comes to mind.